Please help me debunk this nonsense. I tried google and all I get is the rightwing message

[rainy]

"Liberal media making a big deal over iran not selling oil to Britain they don't buy oil from them any way!!! obama and epa shuting down refineries is the problemfor gas prices going up!!!"

Above is what my "friend" just posted on fb.

[FarLeftFist]

1. Obama shutting down refineries?! Obama has handed out a SHITLOAD of drilling permits. SHITLOAD!

Just keep reminding them that this is a PRIVATE SECTOR problem and any interference from the Govt would be deemed SOCIALIST!

[Angry Dragon]

2. Tell them you want to see the articles and facts first

[rainy]

5. When I google it there are all kinds of articles about gas prices going up and Obama

and his EPA are shutting down refineries in Texas. I can't find any explanation for Obama's reasons.

[pscot]

21. The oil companies are closing refineries

to keep supplies tight in the face of shrinking U.S. demand. It's a greed based economic decision, but blaming it on EPA gives them a two-fer and lets them make political hay. What does the truth matter as long as FOX is willing to catapult the propaganda?

[JHB]

28. That's usually a sign it's so much RW hot air...

It's tough to find factual articles about figments of their fevered imaginations.

These are people who will crowd together in a room, sniff something funny in the air, and blame Obama for using gas on them, while conveniently forgetting they've all been eating nothing but beans for three weeks straight.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. I'm not going to do your legwork but check out US exports of gasoline.

Our refineries have been exporting larger than usual amounts of refined gas as a strategy for keeping prices up. If that's the case, then the bottleneck would not seem to be refinery capacity.

[bhikkhu]

23. If they'll pay more for the gas elsewhere, then why not?

Up until 2008 the shoe was on the other foot - we imported more finished petroleum products and supported high prices elsewhere. Now demand in the rest of the world is keeping prices high, we're refining more here, and domestic demand is down. So we export...its hard to see what kind of law would prevent that, or how it would be a good thing.

[Jackpine Radical]

29. I'm not arguing the merits of the exporting,

just pointing out that it suggests refinery capacity isn't the problem.

The OP was positing some post hoc ergo propter hoc logic from the other side & I was pointing out a way to deflate it.

[Old and In the Way]

4. Ask him for a link.

It has nothing to do with refining capacity - that hasn't changed much and Big Oil makes sure that refined product availability is always matched closely with demand so they can maintain a maximized price point. It has everything to do with market speculation....a market that profits on uncertainty. With any luck, the speculators will lose their shirts when war doesn't materialize and they have their bets called.

[rainy]

8. I think I post what you just said:)

Do you mind?

[Old and In the Way]

14. Hey, I'm no macro-economist who pretends to understand world energy markets...

but I'm sure it's no less informative than what pretends to be information on Right Wing sites. I know this, Obama wouldn't take any steps to screw up the consumer economy that's just starting to recover from the disastrous policies of Republicanism . I would question, though, if the same is true of Wall Street and Big Oil - I think we both know that they'd be willing to screw up the economy if they think they can get rid of a political threat - and increase their profits at the same time - it's a two-fer. So, sure, go for it!

[TheMastersNemesis]

6. Misinformation And Propaganda

The RW is seizing domains and google sites so they can put out misinformation. I am not on facebook but I would tell that a-hole to go screw himself. Facts are irrelevant to pathological liars.

[TalkingDog]

7. Show them this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002329086

or at least read the link and get a rebuttal from there.

[Mojorabbit]

20. I was just going to find that link for the op. NT

[Ikonoklast]

9. Those That Assert, Must First Prove.

Tell them that a link to a reliable industry source would be acceptable, and if they cannot come up with anything except right-wing blogger bullshit sources, call them on it.

The refinery that is being shut down in St. Croix is closing because the joint owners made the decision that EPA compliance was too costly, so instead of spending the money to update the facility, Hess and Petroleos de Venezuela SA, the national oil company of Venezuala who jointly own and run that facility decided to close it.

The same rules all the other refineries must abide by, you know, the ones legally operating and NOT shutting down.

The EPA did not make that decision for them; they made it themselves.

[NMDemDist2]

10. the real deal is that gasoline has become one of the USA's largest exports

that's why our gas is high, they make even more selling it overseas

[rainy]

11. I posted what is below plus what "old and in the way" said, thanks peeps

"Ok so, gas prices continue to go up all the wile the U.S. is exporting gas and oil companies are slowing down the refining of gas. What’s wrong with this picture?
I know, right wing economists will spout “well that’s just the free market responding to supply and demand…”.
There’s no such thing as a free market. Our markets are not free. Our markets are the best money can buy and oil companies buy a huge chunk of them. Our Congress has long since been captured by the petroleum industry. It’s so bad that oil companies which make hundreds of billions of dollars in profit actually get U.S. tax dollar subsidies. They also get access to Federal Lands at very cheap rates.
Not only that but Oil Companies rely heavily on our tax payer dollar funded military to protect their shipping lanes and secure new oil supplies (see Iraq). Oil Companies have so much money they can afford to throw billions of dollars at Congress without even noticing it to make sure no other industry can compete with them. We are at their total mercy.
So ask yourself why the oil companies are driving up gas prices? Well, for one, they don’t want to see Obama re-elected. Look for Republicans to pivot in the summer and start blaming Obama for high gas prices. Second, the Oil Companies desperately want to build this Keystone XL pipeline. Why do they want the pipeline so bad? Is it so out of the goodness of their heart they can then lower gas prices?
No. They want the pipeline (which will go to the Gulf States where the bulk of refineries are) so they can export even more gas. This pipeline will do nothing to reduce gas prices. But oil companies know how the public thinks. They know that as gas prices go up the public will be more susceptible to propaganda such as “we need to drill more oil here at home so we can lower gas prices!”.
Why else would oil companies spend so much money buying commercial time on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News trying to convince you that all we need to do is drill more and frack more in order to solve our energy woes?
The oil market is not free. If oil companies could drill on every last square foot of land in this country and everywhere offshore gas prices would still not drop. Why? Because oil companies control the supply and as gas price drop they just stop refining gas.
In this case though their rationale is even more devious as they are trying to influence a Presidential Election and push through Congress the Keystone XL pipeline with the excuse being it will lower gas prices. They know full well it will do nothing to lower gas prices because they set the price."

[handmade34]

12. not sure of the implication of your friend's fb post

Fox News has article but I refuse to link them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17089953

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16678342

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16655706

[GOPonziconz]

13. I would first tell him that the 'liberal media' is no such thing. The MSM is

owned lock stock and barrel by the right!

Also, the point is that Britain has a population that depends on that oil. How is it going to sit with him when the US runs out or rations. There will be a crisis and it will devastate their economy.

The US will never run out, it's the biggest oil producer in the world and the biggest export is gasoline. That's what's driving the price of gas up, it has othing to do with Obama or the EPA!

It's Republicans that are exporting so he has the GOP to thank for gas prices!

[TomClash]

15. Speculation

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/04/13/174989/sachs-speculators-gas-prices/

[Bluerthanblue]

16. here is an interesting link about OUR oil-

written in december. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-16/us-oil-boom/52053236/1

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. The UK imports very little oil from Iran, yes; France also imports very little.

Italy and Spain import rather more. The EU accounts for 450K barrels a day of Iranian oil; cutting off exports to France and Britain, which use less Iranian oil than other European countries who've announced sanctions, sends a message. And oil prices are going to go up on the news in part because the markets react as much to what investors worry MIGHT happen as they do to what actually is happening; take 450K barrels a day of Iranian oil out of the market and suddenly the EU is competing for other oil resources and bidding up the price of non-Iranian oil.

[Amonester]

18. Maybe they'll buy more from Libya now...

If they can (???)

[bhikkhu]

19. Gas prices are tied to oil prices, oil prices are tied to the cost of production

Which is going up everywhere. There is sufficient demand to keep prices high and support continued production, so prices stay high.

[BrentWil]

22. What I would say..

Gas is going up because their is increased demand in the market and a finite supply. The Administrations policies have nothing to do with that basic fact. However, the President has been out in front trying to develop alternatives to oil. This is the only real path forward.

[Ohio Dem]

24. It has been my experience that when I google RW talking points

and can only find the talking point on RW sites, but no actual news sites talking about it, then that's all it is - a RW talking point with no basis in fact. Demand an actual news article documenting the EPA's action.

On edit: When your friend can't find an article from a reputable news site, ask him or her why, if the republicans are right on the issues, as they claim, do they make shit up? Ask why you get so many bullshit emails. Ask why every other article on Snopes is devoted to debunking another RW talking point. And do this in public, because while you'll never change your friend's mind, others will take note.

[EC]

25. The oil companies shut down the refineries

because they said they were running out of storage because of people not buying as much (demand is down because of high price) they've also cut back deliveries to stations that create shortages. The EPA didn't do anything, it was the oil companies themselves.

[left is right]

26. What don’t they understand about free market concepts?

In America, oil production is strictly private sector. It is corporations that owns every drop that comes out of the ground. They have the right to sell it to the highest bidder, which at the moment is not us. That is why American exported oil is rising as is the price of oil.

[toddwv]

27. The facts are out there.

However, you will never convince a card carrying right-winger that the price of gasoline is anything but a librul plot.

First of all, gasoline was going up and up and up during Bush's regime. It subsequently plummeted when the economy entered the Great Republican Recession.

[img][/img]

As the economy heats up, gasoline prices will continue to rise...but we all know that there is a dark secret to gas prices... we'll see that in a bit.

The reason gas prices went down as the economy tanked from the subprime mortgage ripof? Demand for gasoline in the US plunged. It still hasn't recovered.

[img][/img]

Sooooo... we've all learned the ol' supply and demand, right? Well, demand for gas is down in the US but steady in other areas, so naturally the oil companies are shipping US fuel overseas which helps keep the prices here high which allows higher margins of profit.

[img][/img]

Here's a good starting point:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/02/MN8I1M7LAV.DTL