So I'm getting ready for work when..

[JH19059]

I get a call. On the other end is a woman's voice that identifies herself as a member of the NRA. She begins with the by saying that "our rights as gun owners are being assaulted by Obama." I continued to let her speak until she said that Obama has "apologized and bowed to people " when it came to our Constitution at that point I cut her off. I told her that as a Democrat, gun owner, police officer, I have seen first hand the damage that unlawful and illegal gun owners do to the lives of others. Hell I've been shot at my damn self serving the streets of my city. When I said this she got real apologetic. I said being a republican does not give you or your party some holier than thou righteous monopoly on OUR constitution!! As a democrat I support the 2nd amendment right I just believe NUTS and CRIMINALS should not have access to weapons and that no matter what the hell your organization says a freaking assault weapon does not make for good quail hunting! With that I hung up on her.

[yardwork]

1. Wow. Yay! Awesome. Thanks.

[appal_jack]

13. Yes, K&R

I'm as pro-2A as they come, and I am satisfied with Obama's conduct during his first term with respect to the Second Amendment. While Attorney General Holder has said a few stupid things, and also has been woefully obfuscatory at best about the Fast & Furious debacle, even the NRA should be admitting by now that Obama has not yet been anywhere near a disaster for gun owners.

One small point of dissent with the OP: 'assault weapon' is a term invented by the 'gun-grabbers' (to use an equally vague and inflammatory term in response). It is generally agreed that 'assault rifles' are military-issue fully automatic weapons (which have been heavily restricted in the US since 1934), but the semi-automatic firearms that were lumped into the (now expired at the federal level) 'assault weapons ban' are quite similar to other legal firearms. In fact, semi-auto versions of the AR- and AK- pattern rifles are some of the most popular firearms in the trade today. Railing against them, or Americans' right to own them, is not a way to convince other firearm enthusiasts that you support the Second Amendment.

The Second Amendment talks about keeping and bearing arms, not quail hunting.

The misguided federal assault weapons ban is now 18 years old. If Democrats leave that sort of poor legislation behind, and focus instead on effective enforcement of the present laws regulating firearms and prohibiting assault, abuse, and violence, then they (we) will stay on the 'right' track.

-app

[Tuesday Afternoon]

37. yes.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Thanks for that!

[Duer 157099]

3. Well done!

I hope that stopped her from making any other calls.

[Johnny Rico]

4. Quail hunting?

...and that no matter what the hell your organization says a freaking assault weapon does not make for good quail hunting!

Last I checked, the 2nd amendment doesn't have anything to do with hunting...

[saras]

9. You've obviously never had to defend YOURself against a militia of quail...

[tech3149]

10. Mmmm! quail tasty litlle chickens

I don't eat much meat anymore but quail is definitely on the top of my list.

[Johnny Rico]

12. Finally, the excuse I need to buy that Saiga 12 shotgun...

[DLine]

20. A great gun

Shot one a buddy of mine has. Ive seriously considered getting one.

[Johnny Rico]

21. If it wasn't for the Kel-Tec KSG that just came out, I probably would already have one.

The problem is that demand is far higher than supply right now for the KSG. MSRP of around $800, and people are getting over $1400 for them on Gunbroker.

[JH19059]

22. WoW!

That is one nice weapon!!!

[Johnny Rico]

25. It has the advantage of being the perfect weapon for a militia of quail (see upthread) or

a horde of zombies.

If facing zombies, be sure to load your shotgun with Zombie Max ammo.

Zombie Max™ - Just in case!



(please note: this is real ammo, it's not a joke and it is for sale)

[CTyankee]

28. Wonderful! Just what I come to GD for, a nice gun pic! A nice, LONG gun pic!

Back in the day, you'd only get to see them in the Gungeon. Ah, DU2, I hardly knew ya, and then you were gone...sniffle...

[snooper2]

45. We have pictures of semiconductors, shingles and stalactites too!

[CTyankee]

49. Ow, that pic of shingles is tough. Must really have hurt like crazy...

[snooper2]

51. Beats me, worst thing I ever got was ringworm

[ellisonz]

59. Lame.

That weapon has no legitimate sporting or self-defense purpose.

[Johnny Rico]

61. Why is it "lame" to use the most efficient weapon available?

In regards to sporting purposes, i.e., hunting quail...I was rather obviously making a joke. However, this particular weapon would be ideal for self defense. I can't for the life of me imagine any reason why it wouldn't be...could you elaborate, please?

[Starboard Tack]

80. Self defense against what? A fucking asteroid?

[Johnny Rico]

81. Methinks you have an inflated view of the lethality of this particular weapon.

The Saiga-12 pictured looks very nasty, granted...and it is a very effective weapon. But in absolute terms, it's no more deadly than any other semiautomatic shotgun...so what's the big deal? The fact that it doesn't have a wooden stock?

[Starboard Tack]

82. So what would you be using this for? Quail?

A 12 gauge shotgun with a scope and magazine? Not shooting at paper or skeet, that's for sure. Looks excellent for killing large numbers of civilians quickly. Something the Syrian army would love right now. A true wanker's weapon.

[Johnny Rico]

83. If you're going to criticize guns, you really should learn more about them.

A 12 gauge shotgun with a scope and magazine?

First of all, that's not a scope. It's a reflex sight of some sort. It doesn't magnify, it only provides an aiming point. They're becoming quite popular on guns of all sorts, because hitting what you're aiming at is kind of the point. Secondly, every semiautomatic or pump shotgun ever made has a magazine. Perhaps you're thrown off by the fact that this is a box magazine rather than the more traditional (for shotguns) tubular magazine, but it serves exactly the same purpose, to feed a round into the chamber.

So what would you be using this for? Quail? Not shooting at paper or skeet, that's for sure.

Home defense. As I already pointed out.

Looks excellent for killing large numbers of civilians quickly. Something the Syrian army would love right now. A true wanker's weapon.

Let me assure you that the Syrian army is using far deadlier weapons than this on their population right now. A 12 gauge shotgun has maximum practical range of perhaps 50 yards with buckshot. One of the many weapons currently being use by the Syrian army is the PK machine gun:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PK_machine_gun

Which has a practical range of 1,640 yards, and is a fully automatic weapon which feeds from a 250 round belt. Not to mention the fact the they're using artillery on their population. Suggesting that they switch to Saiga-12 shotguns instead would only elicit howls of laughter from them.

[Starboard Tack]

84. I'm quite familiar with shotguns.

Used to hunt birds and shoot skeet a lot. Also a fine weapon for home defense. Don't know why you'd need a scope (aiming device) or more than 2 barrels. Just another piece of techno junk for gun freaks. Empty that mag inside a house and you won't have much of a home left to live in, even if you manage to beat the invasion force of whatever country you pissed off.

[Johnny Rico]

85. As is so obvious from your previous post....

Last edited Sat Feb 25, 2012, 11:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Used to hunt birds and shoot skeet a lot. Also a fine weapon for home defense. Don't know why you'd need a scope (aiming device)

It's. Not. A. Scope.

The fact the you don't think firearms should have aiming devices says a lot about your level of knowledge.

or more than 2 barrels.

Er...how many shotguns do you think have more than 2 barrels? I'll give you a hint, the one we're talking about has one barrel.

Empty that mag inside a house and you won't have much of a home left to live in, even if you manage to beat the invasion force of whatever country you pissed off.

The magazine pictured holds, at most, 10 shots. Do you think firearms shouldn't have feeding devices that hold that many rounds? Heck, from what you've said so far I get the impression you don't think firearms should even have magazines in the first place. So tell me, just what limits do you think should be imposed? Please feel free to draw upon your quite evident familiarity with shotguns as you compose your answer...

[PavePusher]

62. Feel free to be specific.

What features make it have "no legitimate sporting or self-defense purpose"?

[JH19059]

14. Yes i know

that LOL, I was being sarcastic and underhanded. The NRA has always made hunting one of their 2nd Amendment rallying cries when in fact us educated individuals know otherwise!

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Hmm by the way

a shot gun is not in the category of weapon referred by the OP. Even if with solid it can hurt.

Just a thought...

For starters the ROF tends to be higher, as well as the range... just a thought.

Oh and I would still prefer the Remington for HOME DEFENSE. That racking is universally known and feared and for close quarters, it is PURFFECT.

[Johnny Rico]

88. Actually it is in the category of weapons referred by the OP.

The OP mentions "assault weapons" (an idiotic term, but that's another issue). Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following were considered "assault weapons" under the late, unlamented Assault Weapons Ban:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine

The Saiga-12 pictured has 3 of these.

Even if with solid it can hurt.

Yes, a .72 caliber slug will do some damage!

Oh and I would still prefer the Remington for HOME DEFENSE. That racking is universally known and feared and for close quarters, it is PURFFECT.

That is indeed a Purffectly good choice!

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. So you think a LEO would make that mistake... okie dokie

By the way, when I speak assault weapons I mean the real deal, as in milgrade... full, semi and single shot settings... so we are very, and I mean this VERY clear...

Hey, at least I never got to see the real firepower the cartels do have. Or rather where they have gone these days...

[Johnny Rico]

90. Don't make the mistake of assuming that all LEOs have extensive gun knowledge.

By the way, when I speak assault weapons I mean the real deal, as in milgrade... full, semi and single shot settings... so we are very, and I mean this VERY clear...

You're speaking of assault rifles, a very specific term. As for the absurd term "assault weapon":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Assault weapon is a non-technical term referring to any of a broad category of firearms with certain features, including some semiautomatic rifles, some pistols, and some shotguns. There are a variety of different statutory definitions of assault weapons in local, state, and federal laws in the United States that define them by a set of characteristics they possess. Using lists of physical features or specific firearms in defining assault weapons in the U.S. was first codified by the language of the now-expired 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

Very generally speaking, a semi-automatic firearm is defined by these laws as an assault weapon if it has both a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, sometimes in conjunction with other features such as a folding stock or a muzzle brake. Assault weapons are often similar in appearance to military firearms, but are capable of firing only once each time the trigger is pulled.

Whether or not assault weapons should be legally restricted more than other firearms, how they should be defined, and even whether or not the term assault weapon should be used at all, are questions subject to considerable debate as part of the arguments of gun politics in the United States.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Whatever

The cops I personally know...do know the difference.

Have a good llllooooooonnnnnnggggggg day.

[elleng]

5. Good to see you gave her something(s) to think about!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

6. Good rant

Hope maybe you jolted her into maybe doing some critical thinking before she makes more calls.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. Which of these does not belong?

1. Republican
2. NRA
3. Critical thinking

I love my guns but lets face it. The NRA is just another arm of Fox propaganda.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

8. It seems to be that way

To those people even when nothing is going on, *SOMETHING* is going on. Did you catch LaPierre's warnings about Obama not doing anything about guns in his first term is a plot to lull us into a false state of complacency so that he can begin the gun grabbing in earnest once he is safely re-elected to a second term?

[lastlib]

47. and the gun manufacturers/sellers n/t

[nenagh]

11. Good for you...

That Repub's thinking probably never considered that Dems are police officers....

Well done . Quail hunting.

[spin]

15. A legitmate use of firearms is for self defense...

A semi-auto rifle which meets the political definition as an assault weapon may be an excellent choice as a self defense weapon in a rural environment. Such weapons, which are very popular, can also be used for hunting small game however currently AR type rifles are being produced in calibers which are adequate for large game.

20 Versatile Semi-Automatic Rifles

The debate is moot. Regardless of what you think or how you feel about using semi-automatic guns for hunting, autoloaders and AR-style rifles are becoming more common in camps and virtually every major manufacturer is producing these guns in calibers heavy enough to drop deer, hogs and bears. Not to mention the fact that they're a blast on the range.

But what's the real difference between an AR and a semi-automatic rifle? It's seminal, and aesthetic. ARs were initially designed by ArmaLite Inc. -- hence the AR designation -- as civilian versions of military rifles, while the other semi-autos in this review were developed first and foremost as hunting or competitive shooting firearms. However, as ARs continue to grow in popularity as hunting rifles and semi-auto hunting rifle makers continue to borrow features from the AR world (synthetic stocks, detachable magazines) trying to separate the types of guns on a philosophical level is an exercise in futility. Both rifles fire a single bullet each time the trigger is pulled and they both automatically eject the spent cartridge and chamber in a new one. But from a technical standpoint, the two types of guns work off of a different platform and generally look different.

With that in mind, we round up 20 great semi-automatic rifles chambered in .30 RAR/6.8 SPC Spec II caliber cartridges and heavier. We cover ARs in slides 2-16 and autoloaders in slides 17-20. This is by no means a complete list. If we left your favorite gun out, make sure to add it in the comments section!
http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/guns/rifles/centerfire/2011/11/20-best-semi-automatic-rifles-big-game-hunting

Prior to the Assault Weapons Ban such weapons were not popular. When the government bans something, interest in the item always increases. Some shooters discovered just how accurate and versatile "Black Rifles" are and the word spread. Basically the Assault Weapons ban proved a total failure and in fact backfired.

Before you ask, many states limit the number of rounds a semi-auto rifle can hold while hunting. I believe the Florida limit is a five round magazine in the weapon. Feral hogs are considered pests in Florida and hunting is encouraged. A feral hog can also be dangerous and may attack a hunter with its sharp tusks and do considerable damage. Therefore it makes sense to use a semi-auto rifle while handing such game or to carry a large caliber handgun as a back up.

Disclaimer: I am not a hunter nor do I pretend to know all the requirements for hunting in states like Florida. I do not own any weapons that would be considered "assault weapons". I do have a small collection of revolvers, rifles and a 12 gauge coach gun. However I do know and often discuss hunting with people who do enjoy the sport and I can also add that wild hog and deer taste good if prepared properly.

[Johnny Rico]

16. Speaking of wild hogs...

I'm thinking of going to a game ranch later this year with my father. He wants to hunt wild hog, I'm looking at getting some sort of exotic sheep. I'll probably use an AR-15 in 6.8 SPC. Being an old-school kind of guy, he wants to take his .45-70.

[spin]

19. I knew a hunter who told me he had to climb a tree after he shot a feral hog...

and really pissed the animal off. He was glad that he had a .44 magnum revolver in a holster on his belt as it looked like the large hog had no intentions of leaving the area and he had dropped his rifle to climb the tree.

While this is rare and unlikely it is possible to be seriously injured by a wild hog.

How to Hunt Hogs at Night

***snip***

Are feral hogs dangerous?

All wild animals have the potential of being dangerous, especially when wounded or cornered. In a natural state, feral hogs will prefer to run and escape danger, and are not considered dangerous. Extreme caution should be maintained when tracking wounded animals, trapping animals or encountering females with young. Their razor sharp tusks combined with their lightning speed can cause serious injury.
http://www.elusivewildlife.com/index.php?section=24

[AtheistCrusader]

41. That's normal hog hunting technique.

Shoot once, drop rifle, climb tree.

If the one you shot doesn't get you, one of his buddies might.

[handmade34]

17. ...

[tosh]

18. k&R.

[MrScorpio]

23. PIE-YOW!

Most excellent

[Warren Stupidity]

24. kick

[Dawson Leery]

26. Unless there is some "magical" way for Obama to eliminate the 2nd Amendment

guns will remain the hands of the citizenry.

[bhikkhu]

27. You might have asked her exactly what Obama has done about gun rights

the answer to which is - nothing.

Essentially the matter has been settled (in favor of the NRA position) by court rulings on the second amendment; and not the president, nor congress, nor even local authorities, have much left to do about it.

Of course that leaves the NRA high and dry - having gotten what they wanted, there isn't much reason for them to exist anymore, and little reason left for anyone to send them any money. They just make shit up anyway and count on people being stupid.

[Skittles]

31. CORRECT

[Remmah2]

55. Did it occur to anyone that he's listening to the pro 2A Democrats? nt

nt

[Skittles]

57. oh oh OMG

LET'S ALL START CLUTCHING OUR PEARLS!!!

[n2doc]

40. Buh buh buh...He's THINKING about it!

They just know it! He's just waiting until he takes over the country in his fascist-communist-kenyan anticolonialist coup with the help of ACORN and Saul Alinsky's dead corpse!

[sunbob]

29. yeah

wonderful

[Skittles]

30. OMG JH19059

YOU ARE AWESOME. SNAP!!!!!!!!

[Remmah2]

54. Operative words: Illegal Guns

Please get off the case of us democratic legal law abiding gun owners.

[Skittles]

56. stop waving your fucking finger at me

[dballance]

32. You made me Laugh

Thanks. I'm from TN and we always had shotguns and rifles on the farm. I'm also a Democrat and I support people's 2nd amendment right to own a gun. I have to say your comment that an assault weapon doesn't make for good quail hunting just cracked me up. My father would never have let us own anything other than a shotgun or a simple rifle.

Our penis's and testicles were big enough we didn't need an assault rifle.

[stlsaxman]

33. Well done! i wish you had asked her to give one example of Obama "assaulting" gun owners rights. nt

on edit- with the exception of causing a nation-wide run on ammunition at Wal Mart in the weeks following the inauguration, of course.

[cantbeserious]

34. Glad You Spoke Your Mind - Also Glad That You Are A Rational Police Officer

eom

[JNelson6563]

35. Well done!

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. "OUR" Constitution.

Love it!

[jimlup]

39. Great but ...

As a citizen I oppose the 2nd amendment and say that it is an archaic holdover from the eighteenth century.

Yeah I know - flame away.

[PavePusher]

63. Feel free to use that Amendment Process. It's easy.... n/t

[badtoworse]

42. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with quail hunting

Enough with the assualt weapons baloney - if you don't want a semiautomatic, don't get one.

[Puzzledtraveller]

43. Obama hasn't attacked gun rights

Unless there is something I missed.

[Jankyn]

44. I hear you, man

10 years law enforcement experience before health problems forced me into a new line of work. I love guns, both for target shooting and hunting. But they're every bit as dangerous as cars in the hands of idiots and sick people, yet we don't begin to require the licensing and registration for weapons.

Our 2nd Amendment is important, but like all our constitutional rights, it needs to be balanced with the well-being of society. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater, and you shouldn't be able to sell a modified semi-auto with an extended clip to a felon.

It's nothing but reasonable.

[PavePusher]

64. "...you shouldn't be able to sell a modified semi-auto with an extended clip to a felon."

And you can't, legally.

No more than you can spout libel in public, legally.

Is anyone really selling Garands to felons? With "extended clips"? I'd think there would be a booming market for those simply to legal owners, but I can't find them anywhere....

[lastlib]

46. luv ya!! Great response!

Too many of those NUTS and CRIMINALS are getting guns and using them wrongly. Witness Gabrielle Giffords. And you, a police officer, being shot at. Enough is Enough! If we don't want to become the next Somalia or Mexico, we have GOT to get some of these weapons under control!

[hughee99]

48. The NRA is pushing for criminals and nuts to have access to guns?

I, admittedly, don't pay much attention to them, but I had no idea.

[PavePusher]

65. Don't bother asking for cites. You won't get a meaningful answer. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

50. Maybe what you should've said was...Obama hasn't limited your or my gun rights in any way.

What you are saying is a lie, and I'm aware of it.

[dana_b]

52. Guns and God

We will all be hearing more from the NRA and the anti choice folks up until the election because it's all they have.

I appreciate what you said to her and agree completely but I don't have much hope for some people out there.

[Johnny Rico]

53. Speaking of choice...

We will all be hearing more from the NRA and the anti choice folks up until the election because it's all they have.

Ironically, the NRA could be fairly described as pro-choice on the matter of the freedom to own firearms.

Choice is a good thing, whether it's reproductive freedom or the freedom to defend one's self.

[ellisonz]

58. "Choice is a good thing"

The problem is when your choice takes away the choices of others.

[Johnny Rico]

60. What choices, and what others?

I have chosen to own a number of firearms, some of which are modern (i.e., "scary&quot to those in favor of gun control.

What choices have I taken away from other people by doing so, and who exactly are these people? C'mon, I want names!

[PavePusher]

67. Apparently we are so powerful, we can oppress people merely by keeping things in our homes.

Next, we take over the world....

[Johnny Rico]

68. Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?

I think so Brain, but if Jimmy cracked corn, and no one cares, why does he keep doing it?

[ellisonz]

70. When your gun gets stolen...

...and then used in the commission of a crime. You take away the choices of others. You can ask PavePusher about that, he had his gun swiped. Polluters.

[Johnny Rico]

71. "When" my gun gets stolen? Surely you mean "if".

Are you seriously arguing that the risk of having a firearm stolen and subsequently being used in a crime is a sufficient reason for people not to have own firearms? If this is in fact the case, please explain your public policy reccomendations to mitigate this problem.

[ellisonz]

72. Reduce the number of guns sold by capping the number...

...one may own without extensive permitting. Require minimum standards of security for storage and transport. There are many news stories that can be found about criminals targeting those who own many firearms for theft. Yes Virginia, it is a public safety issue. Neither of those requirements would violate your Second Amendment right so you can hold the act.

[Johnny Rico]

77. I admit to being curious as to what number you'd cap it at.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether someone owns one gun or a hundred, any more than I care how many cars, stamps, or swords they own. I certainly don't see the need for stricter storage & transport laws.

You needn't worry overmuch about my going into an extended crying jag, though! Given the sucess of the efforts over the last 20 years in rolling back gun laws (liberalizing them, as it were), there's no cause for anything but celebration, and the chances of your agenda actually coming to fruition is considerably less than the proverbial spot between slim and none.

[PavePusher]

73. Wow, really? I see you completely skipped over the part...

where my gun was stolen after doing everything you, and others like you, want me to do. Then you blame me for being the victim of a crime.

That's some exceptional chutzpah on your part. Vile shit, as well.

[ellisonz]

75. Hey, nobody made you go into that bar...

...and now you have the gall to blame liberals for you having your property stolen. That's like a person leaving their car unlocked in a high-crime neighborhood and then complaining about how their car got broken into. I'm sorry dude, but it's called personal responsibility. Own the choices you make, but don't pretend that there is no social consequence that can't be prevented from requiring more responsible gun ownership. By some reports I've seen, several hundred thousand firearms are stolen every year.

[moriah]

92. Well, if you could carry a gun in a bar...

... maybe people wouldn't leave them out in the parking lots. Of course, there are extremely good and sufficient reasons NOT to encourage booze and guns mixing, so I'm going to say even without that law PavePusher would have been taking the responsible route by leaving it in a locked vehicle instead of taking it into a bar.

At least, that's what I assume you are saying happened to PavePusher, right? That his 1911 (I tried to do some research before posting this) was stolen out of his car in front of a bar?

[ellisonz]

93. He made a choice...

...and that choice has consequences. If you leave your purse in the front seat with a wad of $20's who is responsible if it gets smashed and grabbed?

I would encourage people to not carry guns if they're not going to keep them on their person. Sucks to be him, but he did make a choice to go to an establishment that did not welcome his gun. When he blames pro-responsible gun ownership advocates for his property loss he is being disingenuous in his assessment. That is not blaming the victim, and considering that most estimates judge that several hundred thousand weapons are stolen in this country every year, this is a public safety issue

I would note that I had my car stolen and stripped of its interior from in front of my house. Yeah, I'm disappointed in the criminals and in our revolving door police system, but I should have used a club since I knew that it had previously been a hot car for theft and I made it easier than it should have been for the thieving chronics.

[stevenleser]

66. Wish I could kick and rec this 10000000 times!

[DanTex]

69. "No matter what the hell your organization says a freaking assault weapon...

...does not make for good quail hunting!"

Nothing like a nice warm uzi!

[PavePusher]

74. If you can cite to anyone seriously advocating use of machineguns for hunting, please post it. n/t

[Callisto32]

79. You understand that that Saiga is a semi-automatic 12 gauge shotgun, right?

Functionally equivalent to say oh...

[SalviaBlue]

78. Thank you for taking the time to tell her the truth.

I always just hang up on them. Maybe I will take the time to set them right next time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. LOL... I love how some people bring into a thread a weapon that you are not even referring to

Having been downrange from some assault weapons (yes kiddies for real, the narco traffickers do have some serious armories)... and some semi automatic weapons that could be converted (a competent weapon smith yes kiddies)... sadly I know what you are talking about.

Suffice it to say a mean looking 12 gauge shot gun is NOT in that list. Though it is an extremely efficient home defense or quail hunting weapon. For home defense though give me a Remington. Same use, same EFFECTIVE range and that famous racking of rounds is universally feared.

Oh and it goes without saying, be careful out there.

[Iggo]

91. What?!?!?!

It makes for EXCELENT quail hunting!

B-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-dow!

Fucking quail!

[mdmc]

95. ..