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Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:03 PM

 

Is it just me?

Or does our country's situation just get more appalling each day?

We're being held hostage by crazy people, and the negotiators are only negotiating for a share of the ransom, not for us hostages.

I can't see how this ends nicely.

200 replies, 31133 views

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Reply Is it just me? (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 OP
brooklynite Jul 2013 #1
sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #51
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #198
kardonb Jul 2013 #102
TBF Jul 2013 #123
brooklynite Jul 2013 #128
TBF Jul 2013 #133
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #180
brooklynite Jul 2013 #200
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #175
PDJane Jul 2013 #2
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #3
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #8
ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #29
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #32
Dragonfli Jul 2013 #37
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #42
Dragonfli Jul 2013 #55
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #62
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #199
arely staircase Jul 2013 #46
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #57
arely staircase Jul 2013 #59
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #178
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #114
Moostache Jul 2013 #171
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #173
leftstreet Jul 2013 #4
Skittles Jul 2013 #5
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #6
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #12
markpkessinger Jul 2013 #76
Oilwellian Jul 2013 #64
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #125
lob1 Jul 2013 #7
Cleita Jul 2013 #9
arely staircase Jul 2013 #15
Cleita Jul 2013 #23
arely staircase Jul 2013 #30
SwampG8r Jul 2013 #80
arely staircase Jul 2013 #86
mountain grammy Jul 2013 #190
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #142
arely staircase Jul 2013 #144
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #145
arely staircase Jul 2013 #146
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #151
arely staircase Jul 2013 #152
tblue Jul 2013 #61
arely staircase Jul 2013 #66
awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #19
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #26
Cleita Jul 2013 #27
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #33
markpkessinger Jul 2013 #45
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #48
markpkessinger Jul 2013 #69
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #71
Cleita Jul 2013 #73
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #75
Cleita Jul 2013 #78
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #84
Cleita Jul 2013 #92
lunasun Jul 2013 #138
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #52
Cleita Jul 2013 #65
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #117
Jakes Progress Jul 2013 #136
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #149
chervilant Jul 2013 #193
Cleita Jul 2013 #56
markpkessinger Jul 2013 #70
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #74
Cleita Jul 2013 #77
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #82
Cleita Jul 2013 #85
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #87
Cleita Jul 2013 #90
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #93
Cleita Jul 2013 #97
great white snark Jul 2013 #112
woo me with science Jul 2013 #81
Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #120
woo me with science Jul 2013 #166
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #116
woo me with science Jul 2013 #88
TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #28
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #49
TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #111
jtuck004 Jul 2013 #38
forestpath Jul 2013 #10
msongs Jul 2013 #11
Hydra Jul 2013 #18
awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #24
arely staircase Jul 2013 #13
Hydra Jul 2013 #14
Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #54
Hydra Jul 2013 #72
lunasun Jul 2013 #139
NRaleighLiberal Jul 2013 #16
MuseRider Jul 2013 #17
limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #20
TDale313 Jul 2013 #21
TransitJohn Jul 2013 #22
zeemike Jul 2013 #39
woo me with science Jul 2013 #25
robinlynne Jul 2013 #31
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #34
Cleita Jul 2013 #98
ornotna Jul 2013 #35
840high Jul 2013 #47
CK_John Jul 2013 #36
Lonr Jul 2013 #40
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #41
jtuck004 Jul 2013 #44
zeemike Jul 2013 #43
liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #50
Mr_Jefferson_24 Jul 2013 #53
bigwillq Jul 2013 #58
MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #60
alittlelark Jul 2013 #63
jtuck004 Jul 2013 #67
DevonRex Jul 2013 #68
Dragonfli Jul 2013 #100
DevonRex Jul 2013 #161
Dragonfli Jul 2013 #162
DevonRex Jul 2013 #163
grahamhgreen Jul 2013 #165
woo me with science Jul 2013 #189
Apophis Jul 2013 #194
DevonRex Jul 2013 #196
Apophis Jul 2013 #197
Rex Jul 2013 #79
delrem Jul 2013 #83
nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #89
jazzimov Jul 2013 #91
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #95
Maedhros Jul 2013 #156
blackspade Jul 2013 #94
Scurrilous Jul 2013 #96
Kablooie Jul 2013 #99
Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2013 #101
Safetykitten Jul 2013 #103
spanone Jul 2013 #104
MrModerate Jul 2013 #105
DeSwiss Jul 2013 #106
Dragonfli Jul 2013 #108
DeSwiss Jul 2013 #109
Dragonfli Jul 2013 #107
avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #110
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #113
xchrom Jul 2013 #115
michigandem58 Jul 2013 #118
deutsey Jul 2013 #119
matthews Jul 2013 #121
ananda Jul 2013 #122
BuelahWitch Jul 2013 #124
uponit7771 Jul 2013 #126
ProSense Jul 2013 #127
LWolf Jul 2013 #129
treestar Jul 2013 #130
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #131
Catherina Jul 2013 #132
polichick Jul 2013 #134
HughBeaumont Jul 2013 #143
RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #135
Jack Rabbit Jul 2013 #137
msanthrope Jul 2013 #140
HughBeaumont Jul 2013 #141
Maedhros Jul 2013 #157
Name removed Jul 2013 #147
tblue Jul 2013 #148
JoePhilly Jul 2013 #150
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #153
JoePhilly Jul 2013 #155
Snake Plissken Jul 2013 #154
Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #158
ctsnowman Jul 2013 #159
idwiyo Jul 2013 #160
Sarah Ibarruri Jul 2013 #164
bvar22 Jul 2013 #167
felix_numinous Jul 2013 #168
tclambert Jul 2013 #169
MissDeeds Jul 2013 #170
City Lights Jul 2013 #172
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #174
GeoWilliam750 Jul 2013 #176
LittleBlue Jul 2013 #177
JVS Jul 2013 #179
matt819 Jul 2013 #181
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #182
Michigan-Arizona Jul 2013 #183
glinda Jul 2013 #184
bread_and_roses Jul 2013 #185
tavalon Jul 2013 #186
Doctor_J Jul 2013 #187
AAO Jul 2013 #188
Phlem Jul 2013 #191
Doc_Technical Jul 2013 #192
PlanetBev Jul 2013 #195

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:05 PM

1. Yes, it's you...

Personally, I think we can always work through our problems.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:17 PM

51. No, it's not just him, there are at least two of us. However I agree we can work through our

problems but not by remaining complacent, which it appears a few people think Liberals should do.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #51)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:31 AM

198. John Lennon thought "they" were insane.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:46 AM

102. you

 

please , please , please , don't join the negativistic " sky is falling " crowd . We , as a nation , have overcome many bad times , we will overcome this one , also . But it takes confidence in our strengths , looking confidently into the future , hard work , and PULLING TOGETHER , not whining and giving up on our great nation .

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:06 AM

123. Of course you do - you can afford to have that perspective.

Most of the rest of the country is not in your position.

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Response to TBF (Reply #123)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:38 AM

128. My income doesn't protect me from crackpot Tea Party policies...

...I just don't let it get me down. There's always the ability to change things, given enough effort.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #128)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:57 AM

133. The civil rights issues can be changed

by voting out the nut jobs (particularly here in TX) - I do agree with that.

In terms of economics it is much more complicated.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #128)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:48 PM

180. It clearly provides you with needed status feelings, you are one of just a few DUers

 

who make sure others know their income, the rest of them are broke. The ONLY reason anyone thinks you are the 1% is because you tell everyone, and go on about doormen and the Four Seasons being attacked by OWS and such.
Why announce that which most keep private if you don't draw from that announcement some sort of benefit?
It's great to have money, it sucks to pretend it does not matter. 'I'm just positive' says the guy who buys his way out of the problems most fight hard to get through.
Own what you have. Or it owns you.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #180)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:16 PM

200. The ONLY time I mention my income...

...is when someone posts a comment that high income people are all conservative and anti-Democratic. I've given support to Warren, Grayson and every other significant Liberal candidate, and there are plenty of upper-income Democrats I know that do the same.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:24 PM

175. How are you going to work through a problem with your head in the sand?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:05 PM

3. Where are we going?

And what are we doing in this handbasket?

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:08 PM

8. For some reason, reminds me of...

 

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:28 PM

32. Isn't early Pink Floyd great?

 

Under-appreciated, I think.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #32)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:01 PM

37. That goes all the way back to Syd

Pipers was also the first album I ever heard stoned, er not that I would ever do such a thing now.

Still one of my favorite Albums of all time, to think I once owned the original vinyl, I wish I still had it.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #37)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:04 PM

42. Amazing album

 

Almost every piece on it was outstanding.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #42)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:21 PM

55. Agreed, one more for those that may not be familiar with it...



I think there is even a modern cover of this one by someone, this album changed everything IMO.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #55)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:27 PM

62. That might be my favorite from the album

 

Such nice memories of listening in the basement in high school, nowhere to go, just using great music to explore the universe.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #55)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 11:21 AM

199. The modern cover is by Voivod.

Actually quite good.

Edit to add video:

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #32)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:13 PM

46. there is something we actually agree on

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #57)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:25 PM

59. he won it in the war

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:31 PM

178. Syd Barrett days were pretty cool.

I was born too late, so I only got to experience them after the fact.

Nick Mason is murdering the drums.

&list=FLtQBGbTUO310qGNeaoIW4KQ&index=30

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:15 AM

114. Holy crap!

I like all the Pink Floyd. From beginning to end.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #114)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 04:22 PM

171. I don't dislike it...just sounds HEAVILY influenced by Sgt. Pepper's to me...

Pink Floyd had one hell of a ride as a band and quite a few different twists and turns.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #171)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 04:45 PM

173. A whole lot of music from that period was influenced by Sgt. Pepper's.

And rightly so.

Personally I am crazy about the modern day incarnation of Pink Floyd with the soaring Gilmour guitar and stuff. And I like his solo stuff too, like this one.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:05 PM

4. Where is the hostage negotiation team?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:06 PM

5. no it's not just you, Manny

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:06 PM

6. Jeez, Manny--

Go watch American Idle or something. There is nothing wrong. Everything is as it should be. This is the best of all possible worlds.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:11 PM

12. I love Candide

 

Jeez, Lenny Bernstein was brilliant.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:53 PM

76. "Amo, Amas, Amat, Amamus!"

Yes, Lenny was brilliant (as was Voltaire)!

One of the most memorable experiences of my life was a three-hour rehearsal I had the privilege of observing at Tanglewood, with Bernstein conducting, just a few months before he died. He was very, very ill at the time. During the rehearsal, they kept an oxygen tank/mask next to the podium. Somehow, when Bernstein was conducting, he manifested the kind of physical energy he was so famous for bringing to his conducting. But when he would stop to give the orchestra instructions, he would first have to take a couple of minutes to catch his breath by huffing on the oxygen mask. It was sad, to be sure, but it was such an inspiration at the same time.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:29 PM

64. American Idle

Did you purposely spell it that way or is it the most appropriate misspelling I've ever seen? LOL

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #64)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:23 AM

125. It was intentional.

Bread & circuses.

Actually, I've never seen the show, nor much of anything else that's been on TV in the past 3 or 4 decades.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:06 PM

7. Hey Manny, it seems to me we're on our own,

and we have been for some time. It'll end nicely for some, but not us.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:08 PM

9. If you think they are crazy you are only half right.

The crazy people are fronting for the people who really are holding us hostage. Someone suggested that we are heading for another civil war. This time it won't be geographical, but haves against have nots.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:13 PM

15. yeah that is totally about to happen

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:15 PM

23. Let's hope not, but it's something being discussed by some pundits.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:24 PM

30. I have decided it isn't

do realize the level of trouble it takes to get to that? last time here it required a decades old fight over the expansion of slavery, succession of several states and an attack by those states on federal troops within their boundaries. In more recent times in other countries it has begun with protests after decades of totalitarian (usually ethnic minority) governments that were bloodily repressed with the slaughter of lots of civilians in the streets.

the US doesn't even have a major issue dividing it seriously right now. its standard of living is relatively high by global and historical standards. there just aren't any of the ingredients needed for a civil war.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:57 PM

80. for some reason

my whole life when I have heard this "second civil war" spoken of
and I am an old southern dude so its been a whole lot so far
whoever is doing the talking forgets a little thing called the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxstate name) national guard who will be the first line of defense in each state against any such rebellions
now I don't know where you live but I live in florida
one of Americas most (if not best) armed populations
and the florida national guard has us outgunned
I mean sheesh they gots tanks and planes and bazookas and all kinds of killy stuff
not likely to work out well for anyone but the florida national guard

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Response to SwampG8r (Reply #80)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:10 AM

86. and is there really any issue that a sizable number of Americans are willing to kill other Americans

and be killed by other Americans over? Shit no. And I live in East Texas, also very armed and RW and hates the government/Obama but I bet there aren't five people in this county who would literally try to start a civil war and they are in the Aryan Brotherhood and the County jail. So they aren't doing shit except waiting to get transferred to the state prison to serve their sentences for manufacturing methamphetamine. and there are plenty of racist dickheads around here but as long as the Chicken Express is open and their cable TV works, they aren't starting a civil war.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #86)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:08 PM

190. love it.. funny, sad and true.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:55 AM

142. Well, old white male lunatics

now constitute a minority population.

There has been a decades-long fight for civil rights.

We are just discovering the iron fist hidden in the velvet glove of our so-called "democracy."

And everything moves faster now than in the 19th Century.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #142)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:59 AM

144. so over what issue do you think a substantial number of Americans will be willing to

kill other Americans as well as risk being killed by other Americans? Enough to make a civil war? Not just a handful of militia loony toons who are easily rounded up by the FBI or local cops.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #144)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:14 AM

145. You're assuming a bloody revolution.

That may be entirely the wrong model.

Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict (Columbia Studies in Terrorism and Irregular Warfare)

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Civil-Resistance-Works-Nonviolent/dp/0231156839/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374855104&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=chenoweth+sargent



For more than a century, from 1900 to 2006, campaigns of nonviolent resistance were more than twice as effective as their violent counterparts in achieving their stated goals. By attracting impressive support from citizens, whose activism takes the form of protests, boycotts, civil disobedience, and other forms of nonviolent noncooperation, these efforts help separate regimes from their main sources of power and produce remarkable results, even in Iran, Burma, the Philippines, and the Palestinian Territories.

Combining statistical analysis with case studies of specific countries and territories, Erica Chenoweth and Maria J. Stephan detail the factors enabling such campaigns to succeed and, sometimes, causing them to fail. They find that nonviolent resistance presents fewer obstacles to moral and physical involvement and commitment, and that higher levels of participation contribute to enhanced resilience, greater opportunities for tactical innovation and civic disruption (and therefore less incentive for a regime to maintain its status quo), and shifts in loyalty among opponents' erstwhile supporters, including members of the military establishment.

Chenoweth and Stephan conclude that successful nonviolent resistance ushers in more durable and internally peaceful democracies, which are less likely to regress into civil war. Presenting a rich, evidentiary argument, they originally and systematically compare violent and nonviolent outcomes in different historical periods and geographical contexts, debunking the myth that violence occurs because of structural and environmental factors and that it is necessary to achieve certain political goals. Instead, the authors discover, violent insurgency is rarely justifiable on strategic grounds.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #145)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:18 AM

146. no, I'm assuming a "civil war"

the topic of this subthread. and actually I am assuming NOT a civil war. but the topic here isn't protest or non-violent resistance to something it is civil war.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #146)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:45 AM

151. Warfare can take many forms.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #151)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:58 AM

152. and the one being discussed is

"a violent conflict within a country fought by organized groups that aim to take power at the center or in a region, or to change government policies".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war#Formal_classification

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:26 PM

61. Because there aren't enough of us

willing to fight and/or die to save this thing. We just don't want to be that inconvenienced. We are not as brave as Americans were back then, or as people in other countries today. We still believe in a peaceful change of power. We still believe we get to vote and that how we vote really matters.

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Response to tblue (Reply #61)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:30 PM

66. there is no issue on the table in America currently

that I am willing to kill fellow Americans over. And I doubt there are many who are. Hopefully the ones who are - militia members, skinheads, etc. are under FBI surveillance and about to be arrested.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:14 PM

19. I think that is the only remedy...

 

without real campaign reform all we can do is vote for asshole A or Asshole B, and both are chosen for us ahead of time. They buy politicians on both sides.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:20 PM

26. But the crazies can break free from their puppetmasters

 

and then there's a big problem.

That's how Herr Hitler ended up causing such a ruckus.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:24 PM

27. I did want to expand on this myself but Godwin keeps getting in the way.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:29 PM

33. #%^* Godwin

 

Never Forget means never forget.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:09 PM

45. Thank you for saying that, Manny!

Here's a problem I have with "Godwin's Law." It seems to rest on the assumption that nothing remotely comparable to Hitler and Nazi Germany could ever possibly happen again (or at least not here). That is a very naive and dangerous assumption. I mean, it isn't as if Nazi Germany just arrived on the scene fully formed in all its horror one day. It occurred over time, and incrementally; and there were conditions that enabled and/or fueled its rise. And when we see conditions in our own time that seem to parallel some of those conditions that fueled the rise of Nazism, we're a bunch of fucking idiots if we deny ourselves the ability to discuss those parallels openly, merely because "Hitler" is too often and too carelessly invoked.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #45)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:14 PM

48. incrementally as in 6 years. from 1933 to 1938 when Hitler went from pogroms to invasions

 

of Austria and Sudetenland.

Godwin is mostly referring to non geopolitical topics where Hitler is invoked.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #48)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:45 PM

69. Nazism, as a political movement, arose over time from WWI . . .

. . . it did not just arrive on the scene in 1933. What's more, the philosophical roots of German nationalism extend back well over a century before that. You should read more history.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #69)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:48 PM

71. I have. I'm speaking of actual rise to power when people supported Hitler to 1938 when the world saw

 

this guy is a mad man playing for keeps.

There are tons of ideologies out there percolating, but most have little influence until they are given any sort of legislative power or government representation.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #71)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:49 PM

73. You know nothing, Jon Snow, er Pretzel_Warrior. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #73)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:51 PM

75. my brother and I spent years studying WW1...the "cease fire", Spanish Civil War and WW2

 

So why are you insinuating I know nothing of the rise of fascism in Germany?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #75)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:56 PM

78. Because your words seem to show it.

I was taught WWI by a four star general, who had fought in WWII as a young officer, and whom my history teacher invited to teach us.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #78)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:08 AM

84. that's great. I am sure you learned a lot you couldn't merely from a textbook

 

but in the fog of war, I am sure there is much even that general couldn't know about the vast expanse of 2 world wars.

The scariest scenario doesn't have as much to do with a particular ideology as it does to total and complete financial meltdown lasting for years. What happened in 2008/2009 was bad, but if the dominos had kept falling, it would have sunk us into a worldwide depression, and in that environment people are looking for answers and will often cling to the loudest and most radical of theories and ideas.

It was that environment in the 1920's that gave rise to people like Hitler and Mussolini who were then able to scapegoat entire swaths of people in their countries and wrest control from all of the normal institutions of power.

Based on that, it wouldn't be the current framework of government I would be worried about as much as a financial collapse causing a general strike and unstable society. From that would spring up new "leaders" and cults of personality that people would follow to their destruction.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #84)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:19 AM

92. My father was a doughboy in WWI. He even marched to Paris and lived.

I know a lot more than textbooks.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #84)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:36 AM

138. You could be right especialy if in the next dexade or so Caucasians continue towards moinority in US

there remains a unstable economy,and our MIC support.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #45)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:19 PM

52. We should all study the rise of the Third Reich

 

When I was growing up in the 1960s and 1970s, we discussed the Holocaust quite often in Hebrew School. So many films of the dead stacked like cordwood.

When I first visited Germany, I expected a monstrous people - or at least a cold, unfriendly people. They turned out to be among the nicest people I ever met.

This made no sense: how could people do the stuff the Third Reich did without being genetically-predispositioned sociopaths?

So I made a study of the 1920s-1940s in Germany and the US to see what happened. My conclusion is that what happened in Germany could happen anywhere. It might have happened in the US in the 1930s, but I firmly believe that FDR prevented it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #52)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:30 PM

65. "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer should be required

reading in all history classes when studying the WWI through WWII era. I'm not Jewish and I was raised in Chile, by an American father who worked for an American company. I was alive during WWII, a toddler, but I remember much of what was going on around me because my Chilean mother and I got stranded in the US with my grandmother during the war. We rejoined my dad in Chile after the war. In Chile, I met ex-Nazis, and actually they seemed like honest Germans who had been caught up in an event of history. I also met many displaced people from Europe, whose lives had been destroyed at that time by Nazis, who hated them. I also met other weird characters of those time known as soldiers of fortune. They were various European, American, British, Aussie types who had forgotten to put down their guns. Actually, interesting people, but I never understood what was going on with them (I was a teenager) until I read that book.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #52)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:36 AM

117. I agree, Manny.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #52)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:24 AM

136. You begin a visit to the Holocaust museum on the top floor.

Then you move down the floors, each one chronologically advancing.

I was worried about my reaction to what would be on the lower floors - the horror and shame. So I spent a lot of time on the top floor. It covers Germany at the beginning of the third reich. I looked at everything, then descended the floors fairly quickly, unable to force myself to study the horror as much as I did the history.

The result has been that the top floors haunt me still. Those photographs of crowds, those newpapers propagating hatred, the hardening of a people to the pain of others. The haunting part is that people are so easily guided to their worst selves.

I see the parallels in talk radio, fox, the tea-party, and the capitulation of good people trying to make nice with things that are not nice at all. Evil is evil.

There are a lot of song references upthread. Let's see if anyone knows where "Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only joking" comes from. See if anyone knows without google.

(Here's another line from the same song: "My head can't tolerate this bobbing and pretending
Listen to some bullet-head and the madness that he's saying"

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #136)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:29 AM

149. And that's the thing - I've studied that period myself

 

and also see the parallels. And they grow closer by the day.

I was at a family reunion a few years ago, family came from all over the world to meet in New York City. A big family tree was posted. branches of the tree stopped dead in the 1930s and 1940s.

As I watched the many people, old and young, enjoying the event I also saw the ghosts of those branches that had perished. So many snuffed out, so many more not allowed to even start.

This stuff is real.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #136)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:15 PM

193. So profound.

The result has been that the top floors haunt me still. Those photographs of crowds, those newpapers propagating hatred, the hardening of a people to the pain of others. The haunting part is that people are so easily guided to their worst selves.


When I observe -- to those I trust -- that I cannot wrap my brain around the increasingly ubiquitous derision, fear-mongering, and hate-mongering permeating our entire citizenry!

Manny gets a plate full of it with nearly every post.

I keep getting back to Calhoun's works on overpopulation. Virtually everything he observed is made manifest in our species these days. I still cannot wrap my brain around it...

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #45)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:21 PM

56. And this is where you get answers like #48, without any thought to the fact that

this was being built up to from WWI until 1933 was reached, or the day Bush, er Hitler became chancellor. Yep, nothing to see here. Let's move along.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #56)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:50 PM

74. so what ideology resembling Nazism is taking hold in the US

 

that you feel is looming danger which could subjugate large swaths of Americans in concentration camps?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #74)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:54 PM

77. We already have concentration camps if you haven't noticed.

We call them prisons and detention facilities for illegal immigrants. Also, there is that place in Cuba where prisoners are kept who aren't charged with crimes, not given any court dates, and are force fed because they won't eat. It seems their crime mostly is being Muslim, sort of like being Jewish was a good entrance into a so-called labor camps in eastern Europe back then.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #77)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:03 AM

82. are you for real? I want Guantanamo closed as much as the next person and some kind of due process

 

given to those prisoners. But come on. The VAST majority of them are mid to high level al queda who were caught on the battlefield or were apprehended after it was found they were involved in terror plots or carried out terror plots.

I am against private prisons. However, are any of them filled with people who did not receive due process being charged with a crime, etc? Are any of these prisons filled with people who were rounded up simply because of their religion or ethnicity or sexual orientation?

That is really a bad example.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #82)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:09 AM

85. You want it closed? It should never have been opened. The abuses that

went on there should never have happened. We are America! Al Queda should have been flushed out like the Brits flush out the IRA, a police action, not a police state action, and we have become a police state. Never forget it. Abu Ghraib, Gitmo and our black sites in other countries for our CIA to keep and torture prisoners, Muslim ones, of course proves we are not clean in this.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #85)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:11 AM

87. Well they didn't check with me before they opened it

 

So I don't know what that comment is supposed to mean. Of course it shouldn't have been opened. Are you pretending we're not on the same side here?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #87)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:17 AM

90. We don't seem to be. You don't find this the same abomination

I do and object to the fact that I compare it to other similar historical incidences.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #90)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:22 AM

93. ever heard of false equivalence? it is an insult to the millions of Jews, homosexuals, conscientious

 

objectors and others who suffered at the hands of Hitler's regime when you compare the indefinite detainment of people who were often IN THE ACT of fighting against U.S. forces in Afghanistan after 9/11. Most of the ones who had been rounded up and found to have no real connection to al queda were released. Some, when they were released joined terror organizations. Most did not.

The ones left are the most problematic of the 9/11 planners and other key al queda figures. I can declare our way of handling them to be absolutely an abomination and having nothing to do with what Americans have stood for in the past and also say it in no way compares to the rounding up of millions of innocents to die in labor camps through disease, exaustion, starvation, and gas chambers.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #93)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:28 AM

97. Yes, that's the excuse. We don't exterminate Jews. I can't think of any Jewish person who would

want another person to suffer and be exterminated like they were. Do you? Yet we seem to be doing it because our victims aren't Jewish, or conscientious objectors yet. I eliminated homosexuals because they have been mistreated by us legally. Also, you forgot gypsies in your little rant too.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #93)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:45 AM

112. People are called delusional when they say there have been Nazi comparisons.

Much respect for your perspective Pretzel_Warrior. History and I thank you.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #74)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:59 PM

81. An entire industry of private prisons is being developed in this country,

aggressively facilitated by this Democratic administration.

There is now a profit motive on imprisoning human beings.

Money is a powerful corrupting force.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #74)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:44 AM

120. wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

 

Authoritarianism - check.
Militarism - check.
Nationalism - check.
Contempt of democratic processes - check.
Disdain for human rights - check.
Religion and government intertwined - check.
Disdain for intellectuals, science and the arts - check.
Identification of scapegoat enemies - the "other" - check.

Anyone who doesn't see what is happening with the republican party, with complicity from the right wing of the democratic party, and what has happened to this country since 2001 is blind.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:17 AM

88. Agree wholeheartedly, and thank you for saying it.

The comparisons are coming fast now, even from Germans who lived under the Stasi. Godwin's law is only being used to try to silence discussions we desperately need to be having.

This country is brewing something very disturbing.

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/C5faEJPnrDOsTZdnPy2SNw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTIwMDtxPTg1O3c9MzAw/


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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:24 PM

28. not a civil war a revolution n/t

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:15 PM

49. There was a revolution. The super-rich won while the MSM diverted our attention. We lost.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #49)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:42 AM

111. that was a coup

And the super-rich won because both parties work for them. My attention was never diverted since I don't give a rat's ass what letter someone wears on their sweater nor what pretty speeches they make, I care about what they DO. And after Reagan killed the unions the Dem party had no where else to go for their funding other than the super-rich which is why my entire voting life I've never been able to vote for someone that was NOT working for the super-rich that bought them their seat since without that old big union money the Dems stopped giving a shit about working people. Until the private money gets out of our politics there will NEVER be a party that gives a shit about working people. I can't even get out of this piece of shit country since without a ton of money no other decent country will have me.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:01 PM

38. Have nots against the haves, and the people they buy...else it would be awfully one-sided. n/t

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:11 PM

11. the real republicans and the republican lites are duking it out lol nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:13 PM

18. The predators fighting over who's getting lamb for dinner.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:15 PM

24. The are both getting lamb...

 

they are fighting over the choice cuts.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:12 PM

14. It's not just you

And we have an even bigger problem- Climate change is going into overdrive. This is the worst time for us to be split as a species...but I don't think it can happen any other way.

If there's a solution, it's going to have to come from us.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:20 PM

54. I read a DOD report a long time ago predicting mass migration of people

civil unrest, and food and water shortages from climate change expected. I think the ptb are getting their ducks in a row to handle and unruly population.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #54)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:48 PM

72. I'm sure they are

And I'm sure they're expecting most of us to accept our fates while they go into their underground cities.

It's quite the roll of the dice they've made. All or nothing.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #54)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:46 AM

139. Yea there may be no time for issues that divide and the whole danm group needs a time out

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:13 PM

16. Not just you. My wife and I, and our daughters, speak of this often.

One daughter escaped NC for Seattle....the other is stuck here. It's bad. It will end bad for everyone eventually (as the earth decides to finally spew us all off and get itself back in balance); perhaps nicely for the fortunate few in the near term, but it will even get them in the end.

But for most, it is pretty awful. And the pathetic part is that it doesn't need to be.....so your hostage description is spot on.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:13 PM

17. Nope, not just you.

It used to make my head spin. Now I am used to it. Don't like it but I expect it.

I don't think they are crazy, I think they are greedy and they got themselves elected by lying to us. We bought it hook, line and sinker and we will continue to. We are setting up elections like an American Idol voting.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:14 PM

20. Life goes on.

We may not have a functioning democracy, but we still have Netflix.

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:01 PM

39. But that was when the kids did dance and shake their bones.

Now there is no dancing when they get home...

Thanks for that appropriate song.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:18 PM

25. No, it's definitely not just you. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:28 PM

31. I keep seeing a new kind of homeless people on the streets. people who have not

had a bath or change of clothes, or much else human for a long long long time. People literally wearing rags, their skin and rags equally black with dirt. This is something different. This is a kind of poverty I have not seen before anywhere.

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:30 PM

34. Me too.

 

It's evil, awful, and seemingly inexorable.

Bad.

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:31 AM

98. I have. In South America, in the 1940s when all the tinpot dictators ruled everything.

A few people were very rich and everyone else on the brink of starvation.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:32 PM

35. You're not alone

It's not looking very good for us working class folks.

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Response to ornotna (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:13 PM

47. No it's not. I don't

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:57 PM

36. Our biggest problem is only 20yr oil supply and 20 yr supply of potable water

in the southeast US.

Image all of Texas headed for Neb. and everybody else headed for the new bread basket, Canada. Poor Canada.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:01 PM

40. You are not alone.

 

I fear the situation in our country is going to get real ugly ( even worse that it already is ), and fairly soon.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:02 PM

41. on some fronts it is getting better each day

 

but I agree there is still much work to do as we try to form a more perfect union

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #41)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:09 PM

44. But in the back it really, really sucks for tens of millions of people. And has for some time. n/t

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:05 PM

43. Nope not just you.

I think it is something in the water...you know like Rome and it's heavy metal problem.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:23 PM

58. It won't end nicely.

 

The country is in rough shape. I don't really see how it gets better.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:25 PM

60. No. Not when we have a president who promised to look forward and keeps dragging us back.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:29 PM

63. It will not end nicely.

6 years ago I purchased a piece of property between the Jemez Indian Pueblo and Los Alamos. ONE road runs through it. Both sides are substantial, and it is a heavily surveilled road. Saw this coming in 2005. Greenhouse, Fruit trees... beautiful property.......

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:32 PM

67. "being held hostage by crazy people". If we would quit volunteering to write the damn ransom notes

 


it would stop.

But too many like the food, and the shackles aren't too bad, and the security is great, what with being locked behind the closet door and all.




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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:40 PM

68. Maybe ya'll should get a compound or something.

We'll keep fighting the Republicans out here. You can join up with Greenwald maybe on the internet. I hear he has super duper encryption instructions. You could make your plans in secret about how to end this "hostage crisis."

Or, hey, maybe your compound could be in Brazil! You could get advice from the man himself, in person, on how to get rid of both parties and run the country yourselves. The not-so-great Libertarian Revolution.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #68)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:34 AM

100. I apologize for saying so, but your perspective appears to be incredibly myopic

Sarcasm tag or not.

You see Republicans as the only enemy and fail to see beyond that distraction to what they really are, like Saddam's Republican guard, they are simply the favorite thugs working for a larger enemy that is global and systemic in nature.

Yes, we should fight the guard, they are the most potent of the foot soldiers in this country's battle, but they are not alone among the useful political tools helping to syphon the resources, prosperity, freedoms and very life from this planet and 99.9% of it's denizens.

I should not have to point out another distressing fact. In the fight against these Republicans one does not beat them by joining them in their endeavors and helping them achieve 90% of their agenda as is the way of Centrists and appeasers.

Austerity, the destruction of the liberty required by the populace to effect change and the extraction of common resources needed to pursue a saner path is called "bipartisan" and reveals a collaboration that crosses party and even national lines.

Neofeudalism, shortsighted greed that would place all wealth in the hands of the few and multinational corporatism run by a psychopathic ethic of profit above all else (literally) is the real enemy. This enemy is made of several sociopathic individuals that run or work for (often as purchased politicians) these corporations and would gladly devour each other as well as the rest of us for short term gain.

It is an insane enemy that will kill itself along with the host in the end if not stopped; Manny is correct, they are winning and gaining more ground each day.

They will be the death of us and all you appear to see are the not so bright Republican foot soldiers directly in front of you.

Correct your vision and see the larger dangers that WILL kill us all if we ALL don't wake the fuck up.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #100)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:54 PM

161. What a

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #161)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:20 PM

162. You're welcome, I have been working on my manners and I am pleased it is being noticed.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #162)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:22 PM

163. I would have

noticed how nice it was even without the first few words. It discusses issues. That's so rare. I appreciated it.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #100)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 02:44 PM

165. F*cking brilliant! Couldn't agree more, thanks.

 

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #100)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:27 PM

189. This is a superb post.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #68)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:18 PM

194. Except, you know, it's not only the republicans screwing over the people.

 

3rd way, corporate Democrats are fucking us over as well.

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Response to Apophis (Reply #194)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:35 PM

196. I'm sure

Greenwald has some ideas about how to oust Democrats. You'll have to get your tips from him. Or some other Libertarian or Green. Because I am a Democrat.

Like I said, I'll be fighting Republicans. I've been working my ass off trying to get rid of my Republican congressman for years and replacing him with a Democrat. We almost did it last time. We will do it this time. I don't have time to play games about who is and who isn't "3rd way" or "corporate" according to a few strangers on the internet. Not when he's barely better than Michele Bachman.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #196)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:05 AM

197. I don't look up to Greenwald.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble there, sport.

Keep voting for the problem Democrats, then. Go out and vote for the Cory Bookers and the Hillary Clintons out there. When the country comes crashing down, don't come whining to me.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:57 PM

79. No, this is what it is like living in a plutocracy.

 

There was no craziness involved, just decades of careful planning. It is appalling that Reagan and Poppy got away with Iran Contra. It is appalling that Bush Jr. and Cheney got away with Iraq. Some things never change. When they do it is probably a PNAC revival or the Koch rockets of the world trying to decide if they need more police protection.

Then there are kings with their very own army.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:03 AM

83. This has been going on from at least the Reagan wars.

The same kind of dichotomy has been going on, Reagan, with Trigger and a jar of jellybeans, covering for what was done in his name, esp. his Latin American and South American adventures.

This is a very bad situation, there appear to be *no* US leaders with an alternate plan to the neocons.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:17 AM

89. nope, it is not just you

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:17 AM

91. " Is it just me?"

Pretty much, yeah.

I love waking up and Obama is our President.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:24 AM

95. the post isn't about obama. talk about obsession.

 

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:10 PM

156. The crisis will not be averted by a cult of personality.

 

I'd rather wake up and have a functioning democracy.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:26 AM

96. I'm walking on sunshine!!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:33 AM

99. The internet has enabled the lunatic zealots to organize. The problem is ...

that they don't play by the same rules as everyone else.

They aren't restricted by logic and reason the way everyone else is and this gives them an unfair advantage.

They are the suicide bombers of America and are willing to risk destroying themselves and everyone else in order to achieve their unreasonable, extremist goals and as long as they are allowed to flourish, their Sword of Damocles will continue to hang above our heads.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:38 AM

101. Manny, you should be at the beach with the rest of us!

Don't let them get to you, yo

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:46 AM

103. No, it is not just you.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:49 AM

104. i'm over 60. it's been appalling since & before i was born.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:57 AM

105. I'm living in Australia now temporarily, I thought . . .

 

But now I never want to come back.

I think I'll go for permanent residency here. Australia's far from perfect, but their crazies-per-thousand rate is about a hundredth of the US's, overreaching religionists are usually dismissed as quacks and conmen, and Aussie men don't seem to think their dicks get bigger the more guns they have (instead, they think their dicks get bigger the more beer they drink not so different to men from every culture on the planet).

It's downright relaxing, compared to what I experience when I visit the States.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:59 AM

106. I CAN see how this ends nicely.

 

- Different perspective.



''The shock of discovering that most of the power in the world is held by ignorant and greedy people can really bum you out at first; but after you've lived with it a few decades, it becomes, like cancer and other plagues, just another problem that we will solve eventually if we keep working at it.'' ~Robert Anton Wilson

[center][/center]

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #106)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:16 AM

108. RAW is correct but in order to solve this problem he knew it would require

A great deal of reprogramming to overcome the primate psychology that is keeping us in the perpetual loop of the greedy and ignorant people guiding our future as they have throughout our entire history. For this is the recurring problem that will lead to our extinction if we do not evolve as a species internally towards a less myopic perspective.

We are living on the planet of the apes and the Ape leaders are as they always have been (this problem has never been solved) at a time when the beasts have the power of self extinction.

It has become a race between our evolution and our extinction.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #108)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:19 AM

109. Apes with nukes.

 

- Oh, and the reprogramming process is underway.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:01 AM

107. I see that aspect of things as well

No, it will not likely end well, and as I am sure you are aware it is a global problem and thus more dangerous than if it were only one country's situation.

At least we have our music and our memories to help us remain sane as we watch it unfold and fight our Quixotic little battles trying to oppose it...

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:22 AM

110. Things are definitely messed up.

 

I place the weight of my complaints squarely on the Republicans. Although our quality of life would be better if the Democrats would grow a spine and stop behaving like Republicans.

k&r

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:09 AM

113. It's FUBAR, Manny. K&R n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:05 AM

118. Not just you, there are lots of paranoid and negative people

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:27 AM

119. No, it's not just you

I'm especially saddened by what a bleak future my children may have if this madness continues.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:51 AM

121. No it's not you. And more and more and coming to the realization every day. nt

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:54 AM

122. It makes me want one of those virtual reality headsets..

Real reality is just getting less and less faceable.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:19 AM

124. Definitely not just you.n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:26 AM

126. It's you, you complain a lot...I'm not the first person to tell you this either

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:27 AM

127. The country is in worse shape now than when Obama took office

In fact, it's the worst it has ever been, and can only get worse.

The end is nigh!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:45 AM

129. No, it's not just you. nt

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Response to treestar (Reply #130)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:46 AM

131. I'm glad I finally got an answer from someone

 

Thanks for taking the time.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:55 AM

132. Not just you by far n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:58 AM

134. Hang on for a wild ride Manny...

before the great U.S. of A. crashes and burns.

Let's just hope something good arises from its ashes.

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Response to polichick (Reply #134)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:58 AM

143. Unfortunately, "scorched Earth" usually gets you "Norsefire".

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:02 AM

135. Not just you. The neoliberal agenda has decimated countries around the world.

No reason to think the ruling elite won't/aren't trying to do the same thing here.

Just look at the trend towards privatizing everything.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:26 AM

137. No, it's not just you

We can work through this one, as ProSense says, but it's not going to be a piece of cake this time. There will be resistance to the solution to this problem from some very powerful adversaries. We are already seeing that resistance in the form of climate change denial, an anti-scientific set of hooey sponsored by fossil fuel manufacturers, and the promotion of rewritten history that claims the rich are smarter than we are and we peons are the ones responsible for the collapse of the world economy.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is coming, and it must not be allowed to stand. The reason the government is fighting tooth and nail to spy on us is because as far as the real rulers are concerned, we are the potential terrorists.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:54 AM

140. Yes. It's you. Gird your loins. Generations before us have faced much worse and

 

have lived to tell the tale and prosper.

Of course, they didn't have the luxury of complaning about it 24/7. There's nothing like the irony of the 101st Chairborne complaining how bad it is from their air-conditioned living rooms. Or posting from their smartphones while at Starbucks.



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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:55 AM

141. Here's a simple thing I'm starting not to stand . . .

. . . the fact that we're constantly being told, through memes or directly or whatever, that we should be happy life isn't worse rather than be mad that it isn't better.

Tripe such as this produces the opposite of a positive message: Those in power use this cliche to get us to accept less and less in life . . . BUT . . . "be thankful your life isn't worse! It could always BE WORSE!!"

Goalposts get moved every month, and before long, "roof over our head", "food" and "clothing" will now be joining "education" and "health care" as former U.N.-declared human rights that are considered "luxuries" now.

American citizens cannot allow or accept their lives to be driven down in a ditch while a vastly overpaid handful takes everything.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #141)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:16 PM

157. The essence of Progressivism is seeking change for the better.

 

Not for circling the wagons and holding on to the last scraps of what we once had. This is why the LOTE voting strategy is inherently non-Progressive.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:27 AM

148. No, Manny. But it sucks

to see things this clearly.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:34 AM

150. This has been predicted before ...

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?

Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.

Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!

Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Mayor: All right, all right! I get the point!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #150)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:59 AM

153. A Friend Of My Family Was A Jew In Germany In The 30s

 

Her dad ran a butcher shop famous for its pork sausages - Jews were as integrated into German society then as they are integrated into America now. 50% of Jews married non-Jews.

Her immediate family up and left Germany in '35 I believe, because they saw the writing on the wall. Friends and family said they were overreacting, that they were nuts.

Almost all of the extended family perished in the Camps.

Had you been in Germany during those times, you, of course, would also have been one of the first to recognize that there was a problem.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #153)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:05 PM

155. Ah, so now we're Germany in the late 1930s or so.

I find it interesting that so many Tea baggers are sure that we are about to become Nazi Germany too.

They claim that the ACA is "the writing on the wall". And soon, they tell me, we'll have FEMA death camps.

And yes, I find them to be nuts.

I'm curious ... sounds like you are taking off, leaving the US given that you see the "writing on the wall"?

So, where you headed?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:16 PM

158. K&R for a good point and for bringing out the usual boot lickers. n/t

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:33 PM

159. Not just you.

Remember the guy in "Roger and me" He said "some people know what time it is". I listen every day to faux news talking points everywhere I go. There is no sense trying to reason with them. They don't have the tools to do the job.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 12:40 PM

160. No Manny, it's not just you and it's not just your country.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 01:37 PM

164. Me neither. We don't have Republicans in this country.

What we do have is extremist right wing, very malevolent freaks.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 02:55 PM

167. The Downward Trend for the Working Class continues.

The organized STEALING of the last bits of wealth from America's Working Class continues unchecked.
In fact, it IS accelerating.

50% of Working Americans NOW make less than $27,000/Yr.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023308914

Right now, forty percent of Americans make less than the minimum wage from 1968.
http://pac.petitions.moveon.org/sign/raise-the-minimum-wage-19/?source=search


Daily CEO Pay Now Exceeds the Average Worker's Annual Salary
http://thecontributor.com/daily-ceo-pay-now-exceeds-us-workers-annual-salary




76% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/index.html


New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955

Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html

Half of America is in poverty, and its creeping toward 75%
http://www.alternet.org/economy/real-numbers-half-america-poverty-and-its-creeping-toward-75-0

Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385

As the Economy Recovers, the Wealth Gap Widens
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2013/03/11/as-the-economy-recovers-the-wealth-gap-widens

Top One Percent Captured 121 Percent Of All Income Gains
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/top-one-percent-income-gains_n_2670455.html

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc


These things ^ do NOT happen by accident.
They take careful planning, preparation, marketing, buying the right politicians, message control, courts packed with Conservative Corporate Rights Judges, and the marginalization and suppression of any opposition.

This trend is also unsustainable.
That is WHY the 1% is urgently building the Surveillance/Security State,
and changing the laws to make "dissidents" (those who challenge Government Authority) the same as "terrorists",
because when the Working Class & The Poor realize how badly they have been screwed by BOTH Political parties,
they are going to need it.

So NO, Manny, you are NOT the ONLY one.
I live in a very poor part of Rural America.
They were desperately poor 10 years ago,
and they are WORSE off today.

We donate the surplus production from our Chickens and Veggie Garden to our local Free Store, and the families lining up for food on Tuesday Mornings are GROWING. They have the same vacant, 1000 yard stare as those in the photographs from the 1920s.
It is heartbreaking,
but Wall Street breaks RECORDS,
so


The Expansion of Medicaid may help somewhat,
but I see NOTHING In-the-Works or On-the-Drawing Board
from the Leadership of either Political Party to address this Economic Trend.

Raising the Minimum Wage is a laughable (in a sick sense) Token gesture,
as are the claims of creating new jobs (low wage, no benefits McJobs).
Despite the claims coming out of Washington, there IS NO "RECOVERY" for those of us who live on Main Street.
The Fast Tracked TPP (NAFTA on Steroids) will make it WORSE,
and those pushing it KNOW THAT,
and apparently do NOT care.
(Well, they "care" enough to try to keep the Working Class from finding out the depth of this betrayal by keeping it "secret"


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity99%![/font]


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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 02:57 PM

168. It is not just you.

American mainstream media has kept this country in a state of denial for many decades. People overseas can see what is happening here, because too many of them can see the writing on the wall. They have LIVED what we are now going through and recognize all the propaganda techniques being used on us right now.

Character assassination, divisiveness and aggressively countering anyone who can see the shift in the power structure are THOUGHT STOPPING techniques. We are now witnessing women and minorities now being made into second class citizens--included into this group are peace activists, civil rights activists, or environmentalists, or anyone who is anti corporate.

Also surveillance is INTIMIDATION, nothing else, it is very subtle but powerful way to make people conform to social standards. The old way was to have spies in every community but now this is not needed. The structure is in place for social control, and I think people unconsciously know this, and do not want to be on the wrong side of the power structure (right or wrong) out of a sense of self preservation.

The power structure being put in place rewards people who go along with the program--and believe me I think that UNCONSCIOUSLY this is the bottom line. I think that the militarization of this country works toward intimidating people into compliance. Just go along with the program and stay safe, hoping things will get better--and know you are even safer if you play along and ridicule your brothers and sisters for refusing to be programmed. This is basic psychology of groups.

A good book is The True Believers by Hoffer--I think it should be required reading for DU.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 03:53 PM

169. Calm down, Manny. Take a deep breath and repeat: "This is the best of all possible worlds."

Hold on. . . . OK, thanks, I'm back. I had to run throw up. The thought of this horseshit planet being the best of all possible worlds got to me for a moment.

I keep thinking when I die and go to Heaven (I'll wait a few while you laugh at that idea) that the Lord God Almighty is gonna have some 'splaining to do. George W. Bush as President of the United States? God, what were you thinking? Never mind. You were stupid.

I want a refund for being stuck in this crappy universe.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 04:02 PM

170. It's not just you Manny

 

I feel this country is becoming unrecognizable, as many of the principles and values that we held dear have been discarded. We have assumed so many of the practices and policies that we reviled in other governments.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 04:23 PM

172. It's not just you, Manny!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:29 PM

176. Love your bumper sticker

Would be nice to have Dean as a running mate, although others might say that there is insufficient geographic diversity. Personally, my view would be that it would have a high level of ethical integrity.

Would really like that ticket.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:31 PM

177. K&R

 

Fucking joke this system has become

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:34 PM

179. Gozer worshippers may have been right.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:28 PM

181. Nope. Not just you.

In fact, your summary is indeed very brief, but very accurate.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:31 PM

182. Republicans just gave up their war on gays getting married....

 

The way you beat them is to force them to go on the record.

All it will take is a little push to proclaim themselves as the Party of Straight White Male Rule.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:33 PM

183. K&R

Not just you, count hubby & myself in feeling that way as well.............

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 07:08 PM

184. No it is not just you FOR Warren 2016. We need help!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 07:47 PM

185. No, it's not just you

I drop by here several times a day to scan through LBN ... I always come away reeling.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:40 PM

186. No, of course it isn't just you

I hope for a slow decline rather than bloody revolution, but if the NSA doesn't already know it, let me be the first to tell them, we are experiencing the end of empire. They are always so similar, the ends, and the inevitability of overreach and destruction just about guaranteed.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:18 PM

187. excellent metaphor

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:22 PM

188. I'm afraid we are rolling downhill, picking up speed, with no brakes. I'm a realist.

 

I think we've reached a point of no return. It won't end well.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:28 PM

191. No it's not just you.

Thanks to my dickhead father in law for giving me PTSD, I now have Hyper Vigilance disorder. Feels like I can see the future sometimes but yea. We're headed for some hurt. Thanks to the plowing single minded fuck nuts that slunk in here, all of a sudden peripheral vision is something aghast. HVD means I'm looking all ways, over my shoulder to the left to the right up and fucking down with every breath for the past 42 years. Sorry it's just the way it is. We are going to suffer from the rich and ignorant.

-p

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:41 PM

192. It's not you.

This has been going on for at least 150 years now, but
the people running the country have become more
blatant in the last 35 years or so.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:21 PM

195. I agree

I am 62 and this country is now unrecognizable to me. I grew up with some semblance of journalism that would have called out the Republican party for the extremist lunatics that they have become. Now the MSM has worked overtime to normalize them.

I just hate what's happened to this country....

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