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Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:11 PM

 

I'm pleased that Snowden's not on the WH secret extrajudicial kill list

That's what Holder seemed to indicate when he told Russia that Snowden woudn't be executed.

But since the list's secrecy is vital to national security, is that just the "least untruthful" thing that Holder could say?

These are very confusing times.

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Reply I'm pleased that Snowden's not on the WH secret extrajudicial kill list (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 OP
Recursion Jul 2013 #1
Corruption Inc Jul 2013 #45
ProSense Jul 2013 #2
Laelth Jul 2013 #41
hughee99 Jul 2013 #57
99th_Monkey Jul 2013 #3
leftstreet Jul 2013 #4
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #5
leftstreet Jul 2013 #9
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #10
leftstreet Jul 2013 #12
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #40
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #42
GoneFishin Jul 2013 #52
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #53
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #56
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #58
Fumesucker Jul 2013 #63
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #64
JoeyT Jul 2013 #62
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #65
JoeyT Jul 2013 #66
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #67
JoeyT Jul 2013 #68
Progressive dog Jul 2013 #69
Dragonfli Jul 2013 #37
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #43
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #6
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #8
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #14
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #22
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #24
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #29
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #32
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #33
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #35
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #36
Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #59
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #60
reusrename Jul 2013 #7
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #16
arely staircase Jul 2013 #11
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #13
Pholus Jul 2013 #17
nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #47
Aerows Jul 2013 #61
Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #15
pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #18
tridim Jul 2013 #19
joshcryer Jul 2013 #20
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #23
joshcryer Jul 2013 #34
pa28 Jul 2013 #21
MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #25
snot Jul 2013 #26
defacto7 Jul 2013 #27
Demeter Jul 2013 #28
SoapBox Jul 2013 #30
MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #44
questionseverything Jul 2013 #54
nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #48
DeSwiss Jul 2013 #31
jazzimov Jul 2013 #38
Fumesucker Jul 2013 #39
Corruption Inc Jul 2013 #46
think Jul 2013 #51
nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #49
Savannahmann Jul 2013 #50
midnight Jul 2013 #55

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:15 PM

1. Well, strictly Holder was saying he's not on our *public judicial* kill list (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:36 PM

45. Didn't you post that no one is tortured? So there are no kill lists either?

 

Of course both do exist so what's the point of saying they don't?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:17 PM

2. Holder didn't "promise" no drones to Russia.

He simply dismissed Snowden's claims about the death penalty and torture.

Too early to celebrate via snark.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 08:09 AM

41. Yes, but the "no torture" promise is an empty one.

After all, according to the Federal Government of the United States, waterboarding is not torture.

As such, our government's promise to not torture someone is an empty promise, at best. At worst, it is an outright lie. Either way, it is embarrassing, to the highest degree, that we now have to promise not to torture a suspected criminal in order to get our allies to cooperate with an extradition request.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #41)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:33 PM

57. Yes, but in all honesty, torture is used to get people to talk, and that hasn't been a problem

with Snowden. They probably won't need to waterboard him.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:29 PM

3. Yes, civil libertarians everywhere are rejoicing

 

I hear Holder and/or Obama are promising to "not torture" Snowden either.

Oh happy days.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:40 PM

4. He didn't say he wouldn't be extrajudeliciously killed

Holder said the US wouldn't seek the death penalty

Which would, like, indicate a trial



So the super extra secret thing...


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Response to leftstreet (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:44 PM

5. But if the White House seeks to kill Snowden

 

as a penalty for revealing Spy on Everyone... Isn't that seeking the death penalty?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:48 PM

9. yes...no...wait...wha?

But Obama said he's just a 'hacker'

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:49 PM

10. A hacker who's worth enough to force down the plane of an elected head of state.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:58 PM

12. But he was on the plane!!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 07:49 AM

40. Force down the plane of an elected head of state

The US scrambled fighter jets, threatened to shoot it down--- oh wait, force wasn't used.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #40)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:34 AM

42. So what would be a better way to characterize what happened?

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #42)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:13 PM

52. Not forced down. They were free to keep flying ... until they ran out of fuel. N/T

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #42)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:25 PM

53. France, Spain, or whichever revoked permissions for

Bolivian military aircraft to fly over it's territory because of American concern that it might be carrying a fugitive from justice.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #53)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:25 PM

56. Bolivian military aircraft?

 

In any case, they were denied airspace which forced them to land.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #56)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:38 PM

58. Yes, Bolivian military aircraft. nt

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #58)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:52 PM

63. A military aircraft like Air Force One, yes? n/t

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #63)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:59 PM

64. A military aircraft and Air Force 1 is also military nt

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #53)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:52 PM

62. I thought the talking point was that we had nothing to do with it?

And we have absolutely no problem with fugitives from justice, sometimes going so far as to protect them, as long as they're fugitives for something really awful like war crimes.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #62)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 05:05 PM

65. Where did you get your talking points?

I didn't know that about the fugitives from justice thing, I thought we just sent the fugitives back. I didn't even know Snowden was at war with us or that we had committed war crimes against him. Thanks for bringing me up to date.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #65)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 05:12 PM

66. You don't remember

people running around screaming about how no one made the plane land, they landed because of a faulty fuel gauge?

And we're protecting our war criminals from from other countries. While screaming about how other countries shouldn't keep an alleged criminal from us, of course.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #66)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 05:27 PM

67. Oh, I didn't realize the fuel gauge was a talking point,

I don't think it was a very good one if it was.
Which war criminals are we protecting and from who?

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #67)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 09:17 PM

68. Cheney and Bush.

The CIA agents that kidnapped a guy in Italy.

All the CIA agents that engaged in torture.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #68)

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:17 AM

69. Cheney Bush and plane forced down? nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:05 AM

37. It would not be seeking the death penalty but rather using a sophisticated ‘Disposition Matrix’

To protect citizens from a terrorist that said pre-crime matrix has determined will bomb civilians and puppies in the US.

He would simply be one of many on the list that we must red mist over there to protect our puppies over her.

Some of these combatants are as young as three years old while others are women getting married, thugs like Snowden and them may look harmless, but the matrix is pre-cog and uses sophisticated methods to see the murder in their black souls.

Holder was trying to save his life so he could live in a cage here the rest of his life kept prudently away from all human contact and communications for the well being of all concerned including Snowden.

Holder is a compassionate and just man and I would prefer you apologize to him, he has a good heart you know.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #37)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:38 AM

43. Indeed, your argument has bested mine

 

I will recite 25 "Hail Droneys" as penance, and make a burnt offering of a doll in a tribal bridal dress.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:44 PM

6. Snowden may not be on the list...

But I'm not so sure about you...

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:47 PM

8. As a paid troll working for Karl Rove,

 

I'm a Republican of sorts, and thus a protected class under White House rules.

It's like being a made guy in the Mafia.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:01 PM

14. Dude, shhh! The drones, they can hear... n/t

 

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:48 PM

24. Mr. Droney and Agent Mike know I'm a good boy!

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:11 AM

29. I just hope your last post doesn't end with...

..."brb...there's a knock at the door..."

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #29)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:26 AM

32. No, but there is a very loud buzzing at my window. Just a sec...

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:33 AM

33. No problem, then




Health professionals recommend regular colonoscopies at your age.


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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #33)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:57 AM

35. "Health professionals recommend regular colonoscopies at your age."

 

implying "full of shit"? Et tu, pinboy?

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #35)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:02 AM

36. Been there, done that

There are even photos to prove it!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #33)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

59. Don't quote me on this, but that guy in the picture is an expert on aliens.

Even if they don't exist, he's an expert.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #59)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:46 PM

60. The funny thing is, I've never seen even so much as a clip from that program

I know of that guy only from the meme.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 09:45 PM

7. Is a chemical lobotomy really the same as torture?

 

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Response to reusrename (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:04 PM

16. No, and neither is solitary confinement. Remember Obama's NDAA section 1021 which provides for

 

the indefinite detention of US citizens with neither trial nor representation? That's what they'd do. Into the box for life. And yes, chemicals so they can find out how to shut down his dead-man's switch information packets.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:01 PM

13. It's almost as if they'll say anything then wish, then do anything they wish.

 

Such as grounding for 12 hours the plane of a sovereign nation's president, demanding to search it for Snowden. After saying they wouldn't scramble jets for a 29-year-old hacker.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:05 PM

17. I guess they told the truth that one time though...

They didn't "scramble jets" they "grounded them."

I love the current administration's fascination with very strict definitions. It does make the days of "it depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is" look positively innocent.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:42 PM

47. Oh for fracks face

 

That never ever happened...just ask some on DU...

They guaranteed all this was made up!

if anybody is as half tired as I am...they need it

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 04:48 PM

61. That never happened!

 

I saw the flight path and the plane only flew 29 miles in the Moscow traffic circle! There were maps, and such as.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:03 PM

15. How do we know Holder didn't take Snowden off the list, make his announcement,

then put him right back on the list?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:06 PM

18. I hate it when that happens...

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:17 PM

20. That list is reserved for Middle Eastern or African countries.

Obama wouldn't dare do targeted killing in Russia.

So Holder was basically stating the obvious.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:45 PM

23. Holder was making the case to send Snowden back

 

Then once back... he could become Freedom Mist?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:43 AM

34. Well the US hasn't ruled out targeted killing on US soil.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:36 PM

21. Still.

If I happened to be on a long trip with a layover at Moscow and Ed Snowden got on the plane what would I do? I think I might go ahead and find a reason to change flights.

Good to know that Eric Holder got the memo but staying 1000 yards away from anybody who might be on an extrajudicial kill list is a good policy IMO.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:18 PM

25. Well, heck... anything to bring him in...

Please, I mean... NSA wasn't even a buzz worry until Snowden made it so...

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:33 PM

26. I'm afraid life insurance on Snowden would be a good, er, investment.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:38 PM

27. It's all so incredibly ambiguous.

No one has said anything that doesn't have a logical out to it. If this, If that.... then this or not that... Hmmm sounds like old Basic computer language only without the line numbers.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:03 AM

28. I cannot trust someone with so little integrity

 

and that covers all except a handful of Congresscritters, and there may be a few judges who haven't been totally corrupted by the "anything goes" policies of the present.

Even media...NPR used to have some integrity, now it just has sponsors....and a Congressional kill switch.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:13 AM

30. So who exactly has Obama "executed"?

Closest kill I can think of would be Bin Laden.

Names of all of the Americans that he has had "executed" please!

...DU has begun falling off the Cliff of Sanity.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #30)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 10:46 AM

44. At least four US citizens so far:

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #44)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:31 PM

54. it is the 16 year old

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #30)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:46 PM

48. You really need to keep up

 

Manny gave you links...but really...it has happened

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:24 AM

31. Orwell strikes again!!!

 

- You know how these guys (Holder in particular) like to parse things:
    ''I'm not going after medical marijuana users who have serious illnesses and medical problems, I'm just the going after the major marijuana suppliers who's products they buy and are, of course, helping to keep these people alive. But that's a totally different thing, see?''

''The Ministry of Peace concerns itself with war, the Ministry of Truth with lies, the Ministry of Love with torture and the Ministry of Plenty with starvation. These contradictions are not accidental, nor do they result from from ordinary hypocrisy: they are deliberate exercises in doublethink.'' ~George Orwell, 1984



[center][font size=4]The One-Percenter Bunker Suite[/font]
''For those uncertain times ahead.''

[/center]

K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:40 AM

38. Must you see a conspiracy theory everywhere?

You have lost all credibility. Except, of course, among your "Mannybots".

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #38)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 05:46 AM

39. You have to admit that "least untruthful" is a phrase deliciously dripping with irony

And it is useful in a great many situations.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #38)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:40 PM

46. The flaw in your logic is that it's a theory, it's reality not a theory

 

There is a kill list, the U.S. does torture people and the NDAA clearly states that the U.S. can indefinitely imprison people without any representation or rights.

That's no theory, it's all reality.

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Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #46)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:59 PM

51. Some people believe what they want regardless of facts.

 

It is baffling but they do.....

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:48 PM

50. Well I'm not sure.

 

The letter says that they won't seek the Death Penalty if he returns. It doesn't say they won't zap him with a drone. So he might not be safe from the list of those we'd really like to blow up with one of our brilliant bombs.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/156177717/Attorney-Genral-Letter-to-Russian-Justice-Minister

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 03:33 PM

55. I agree-very confusing times...

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