I'm pleased that Snowden's not on the WH secret extrajudicial kill list

[MannyGoldstein]

That's what Holder seemed to indicate when he told Russia that Snowden woudn't be executed.

But since the list's secrecy is vital to national security, is that just the "least untruthful" thing that Holder could say?

These are very confusing times.

[Recursion]

1. Well, strictly Holder was saying he's not on our *public judicial* kill list (nt)

[Corruption Inc]

45. Didn't you post that no one is tortured? So there are no kill lists either?

Of course both do exist so what's the point of saying they don't?

[ProSense]

2. Holder didn't "promise" no drones to Russia.

He simply dismissed Snowden's claims about the death penalty and torture.

Too early to celebrate via snark.

[Laelth]

41. Yes, but the "no torture" promise is an empty one.

After all, according to the Federal Government of the United States, waterboarding is not torture.

As such, our government's promise to not torture someone is an empty promise, at best. At worst, it is an outright lie. Either way, it is embarrassing, to the highest degree, that we now have to promise not to torture a suspected criminal in order to get our allies to cooperate with an extradition request.

-Laelth

[hughee99]

57. Yes, but in all honesty, torture is used to get people to talk, and that hasn't been a problem

with Snowden. They probably won't need to waterboard him.

[99th_Monkey]

3. Yes, civil libertarians everywhere are rejoicing

I hear Holder and/or Obama are promising to "not torture" Snowden either.

Oh happy days.

[leftstreet]

4. He didn't say he wouldn't be extrajudeliciously killed

Holder said the US wouldn't seek the death penalty

Which would, like, indicate a trial



So the super extra secret thing...

[MannyGoldstein]

5. But if the White House seeks to kill Snowden

as a penalty for revealing Spy on Everyone... Isn't that seeking the death penalty?

[leftstreet]

9. yes...no...wait...wha?

But Obama said he's just a 'hacker'

[MannyGoldstein]

10. A hacker who's worth enough to force down the plane of an elected head of state.

Mad skillz, apparently!

[leftstreet]

12. But he was on the plane!!

[Progressive dog]

40. Force down the plane of an elected head of state

The US scrambled fighter jets, threatened to shoot it down--- oh wait, force wasn't used.

[MannyGoldstein]

42. So what would be a better way to characterize what happened?

I'm all ears.

Thanks.

[GoneFishin]

52. Not forced down. They were free to keep flying ... until they ran out of fuel. N/T

[Progressive dog]

53. France, Spain, or whichever revoked permissions for

Bolivian military aircraft to fly over it's territory because of American concern that it might be carrying a fugitive from justice.

[MannyGoldstein]

56. Bolivian military aircraft?

In any case, they were denied airspace which forced them to land.

[Progressive dog]

58. Yes, Bolivian military aircraft. nt

[Fumesucker]

63. A military aircraft like Air Force One, yes? n/t

[Progressive dog]

64. A military aircraft and Air Force 1 is also military nt

[JoeyT]

62. I thought the talking point was that we had nothing to do with it?

And we have absolutely no problem with fugitives from justice, sometimes going so far as to protect them, as long as they're fugitives for something really awful like war crimes.

[Progressive dog]

65. Where did you get your talking points?

I didn't know that about the fugitives from justice thing, I thought we just sent the fugitives back. I didn't even know Snowden was at war with us or that we had committed war crimes against him. Thanks for bringing me up to date.

[JoeyT]

66. You don't remember

people running around screaming about how no one made the plane land, they landed because of a faulty fuel gauge?

And we're protecting our war criminals from from other countries. While screaming about how other countries shouldn't keep an alleged criminal from us, of course.

[Progressive dog]

67. Oh, I didn't realize the fuel gauge was a talking point,

I don't think it was a very good one if it was.
Which war criminals are we protecting and from who?

[JoeyT]

68. Cheney and Bush.

The CIA agents that kidnapped a guy in Italy.

All the CIA agents that engaged in torture.

[Progressive dog]

69. Cheney Bush and plane forced down? nt

[Dragonfli]

37. It would not be seeking the death penalty but rather using a sophisticated ‘Disposition Matrix’

To protect citizens from a terrorist that said pre-crime matrix has determined will bomb civilians and puppies in the US.

He would simply be one of many on the list that we must red mist over there to protect our puppies over her.

Some of these combatants are as young as three years old while others are women getting married, thugs like Snowden and them may look harmless, but the matrix is pre-cog and uses sophisticated methods to see the murder in their black souls.

Holder was trying to save his life so he could live in a cage here the rest of his life kept prudently away from all human contact and communications for the well being of all concerned including Snowden.

Holder is a compassionate and just man and I would prefer you apologize to him, he has a good heart you know.

[MannyGoldstein]

43. Indeed, your argument has bested mine

I will recite 25 "Hail Droneys" as penance, and make a burnt offering of a doll in a tribal bridal dress.

[pinboy3niner]

6. Snowden may not be on the list...

But I'm not so sure about you...

[MannyGoldstein]

8. As a paid troll working for Karl Rove,

I'm a Republican of sorts, and thus a protected class under White House rules.

It's like being a made guy in the Mafia.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Dude, shhh! The drones, they can hear... n/t

[pinboy3niner]

22. Look who's talkin'

[Fire Walk With Me]

24. Mr. Droney and Agent Mike know I'm a good boy!

[pinboy3niner]

29. I just hope your last post doesn't end with...

..."brb...there's a knock at the door..."

[Fire Walk With Me]

32. No, but there is a very loud buzzing at my window. Just a sec...

[pinboy3niner]

33. No problem, then

Health professionals recommend regular colonoscopies at your age.

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. "Health professionals recommend regular colonoscopies at your age."

implying "full of shit"? Et tu, pinboy?

[pinboy3niner]

36. Been there, done that

There are even photos to prove it!

[Major Hogwash]

59. Don't quote me on this, but that guy in the picture is an expert on aliens.

Even if they don't exist, he's an expert.

[pinboy3niner]

60. The funny thing is, I've never seen even so much as a clip from that program

I know of that guy only from the meme.

[reusrename]

7. Is a chemical lobotomy really the same as torture?

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. No, and neither is solitary confinement. Remember Obama's NDAA section 1021 which provides for

the indefinite detention of US citizens with neither trial nor representation? That's what they'd do. Into the box for life. And yes, chemicals so they can find out how to shut down his dead-man's switch information packets.

[arely staircase]

11. or is he? nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. It's almost as if they'll say anything then wish, then do anything they wish.

Such as grounding for 12 hours the plane of a sovereign nation's president, demanding to search it for Snowden. After saying they wouldn't scramble jets for a 29-year-old hacker.

[Pholus]

17. I guess they told the truth that one time though...

They didn't "scramble jets" they "grounded them."

I love the current administration's fascination with very strict definitions. It does make the days of "it depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is" look positively innocent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Oh for fracks face

That never ever happened...just ask some on DU...

They guaranteed all this was made up!

if anybody is as half tired as I am...they need it

[Aerows]

61. That never happened!

I saw the flight path and the plane only flew 29 miles in the Moscow traffic circle! There were maps, and such as.

[Nye Bevan]

15. How do we know Holder didn't take Snowden off the list, make his announcement,

then put him right back on the list?

[pinboy3niner]

18. I hate it when that happens...

[tridim]

19. LOL

[joshcryer]

20. That list is reserved for Middle Eastern or African countries.

Obama wouldn't dare do targeted killing in Russia.

So Holder was basically stating the obvious.

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Holder was making the case to send Snowden back

Then once back... he could become Freedom Mist?

[joshcryer]

34. Well the US hasn't ruled out targeted killing on US soil.

So yeah... basically.

[pa28]

21. Still.

If I happened to be on a long trip with a layover at Moscow and Ed Snowden got on the plane what would I do? I think I might go ahead and find a reason to change flights.

Good to know that Eric Holder got the memo but staying 1000 yards away from anybody who might be on an extrajudicial kill list is a good policy IMO.

[MrMickeysMom]

25. Well, heck... anything to bring him in...

Please, I mean... NSA wasn't even a buzz worry until Snowden made it so...

[snot]

26. I'm afraid life insurance on Snowden would be a good, er, investment.

[defacto7]

27. It's all so incredibly ambiguous.

No one has said anything that doesn't have a logical out to it. If this, If that.... then this or not that... Hmmm sounds like old Basic computer language only without the line numbers.

[Demeter]

28. I cannot trust someone with so little integrity

and that covers all except a handful of Congresscritters, and there may be a few judges who haven't been totally corrupted by the "anything goes" policies of the present.

Even media...NPR used to have some integrity, now it just has sponsors....and a Congressional kill switch.

[SoapBox]

30. So who exactly has Obama "executed"?

Closest kill I can think of would be Bin Laden.

Names of all of the Americans that he has had "executed" please!

...DU has begun falling off the Cliff of Sanity.

[MannyGoldstein]

44. At least four US citizens so far:

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-formally-admits-killing-anwar-al-awlaki-3-other-citizens-drone-strikes-full-text-1275805

All executed without a review by any court at all, not even the now-corrupted secret FISA court.

[questionseverything]

54. it is the 16 year old

i can not get past

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. You really need to keep up

Manny gave you links...but really...it has happened

[DeSwiss]

31. Orwell strikes again!!!

- You know how these guys (Holder in particular) like to parse things:

''I'm not going after medical marijuana users who have serious illnesses and medical problems, I'm just the going after the major marijuana suppliers who's products they buy and are, of course, helping to keep these people alive. But that's a totally different thing, see?''

''The Ministry of Peace concerns itself with war, the Ministry of Truth with lies, the Ministry of Love with torture and the Ministry of Plenty with starvation. These contradictions are not accidental, nor do they result from from ordinary hypocrisy: they are deliberate exercises in doublethink.'' ~George Orwell, 1984

[center][font size=4]The One-Percenter Bunker Suite[/font]
''For those uncertain times ahead.''
[/center]

K&R

[jazzimov]

38. Must you see a conspiracy theory everywhere?

You have lost all credibility. Except, of course, among your "Mannybots".

[Fumesucker]

39. You have to admit that "least untruthful" is a phrase deliciously dripping with irony

And it is useful in a great many situations.

[Corruption Inc]

46. The flaw in your logic is that it's a theory, it's reality not a theory

There is a kill list, the U.S. does torture people and the NDAA clearly states that the U.S. can indefinitely imprison people without any representation or rights.

That's no theory, it's all reality.

[think]

51. Some people believe what they want regardless of facts.

It is baffling but they do.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Here are some of those manny bots, including the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And WAPO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-kill-list-is-unchecked-presidential-power/2012/06/11/gJQAHw05WV_story.html

I mean these *are* as establishment and mainstream as it gets.

Now some of that fringe opinion on the NDAA from the fringe NYT.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/the-sound-of-one-president-caving/

And more from WAPO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/plan-for-hunting-terrorists-signals-us-intends-to-keep-adding-names-to-kill-lists/2012/10/23/4789b2ae-18b3-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_story.html

I do love the sound of ostriches in the morning my friend

[Savannahmann]

50. Well I'm not sure.

The letter says that they won't seek the Death Penalty if he returns. It doesn't say they won't zap him with a drone. So he might not be safe from the list of those we'd really like to blow up with one of our brilliant bombs.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/156177717/Attorney-Genral-Letter-to-Russian-Justice-Minister

[midnight]

55. I agree-very confusing times...