so what exactly happened with Obama and congress today?

[grasswire]

The informal hearing about the NSA at which Glenn Greenwald was scheduled to skype was cancelled because Obama wanted to meet with some members of Congress on short notice?

And what was the topic of discussion?

Not intelligence issues.

So he pre-empted a hearing on the most important issue facing the American people? And at a time when Congress is about to head out of town for recess?

[Summer Hathaway]

1. I'm sure he did it

as part of his diabolical scheme to end democracy as we know it.

"And what was the topic of conversation?"

Was it SATAN?

[RobertEarl]

2. He begged for more time

He knows the lid is about to be blown off the whole nsa gig and he's trying to get a handle on it. He knows Grayson could really be the fuse that lights it up, so he finally asked Grayson to meet. Grayson is not going to post about it, but we can say, that if Obama gives a damn, he's listened to Grayson and will work with our most famous DUer to fix the problem.

[Summer Hathaway]

3. Yeah, mmhmm, okay.

[Tx4obama]

5. Funny I saw part of a video of Obama with the Dems on TV, but didn't see Grayson with 'em. n/t

[sabrina 1]

35. Not just Grayson, Al Franken is now on board as he witnesses more and more of these

revelations, Ron Wyden and now it is a bi-partisan effort. He needs to grab this moment and be on the right side of history. Defending Bush policies is not the way to create a good legacy. Also, Republicans are not showing signs of obstructing Dems on this issue.

We've heard from the beginning that it is Republican Obstructionism that has caused him to be unable to eliminate Bush policies.

Now is the moment to do what we elected him to do and which he promised to do.

Maybe that's what he talked to them about??

[Progressive dog]

6. ^^K&R^^nt

[JoePhilly]

8. +100

[Whisp]

25. +++

gotta laugh at the the ---------------- wow, lots to fill in that blank with.

[Tx4obama]

4. Part of what Obama discussed with the Dems on the Hill is in the article on link below

Here: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/obama-hill-health-care-dispute-95017.html?hp=t1_3

Also, I heard McCain walked into the room looked around and left.
Haven't heard if he went in there by mistake or on purpose.

Edited to add...

Obama reassures Dems on health care, immigration

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-reassures-dems-on-health-care-immigration/article/feed/2109366

[Progressive dog]

7. The most important issue facing the American people

is not the NSA. Not even close.

[Scuba]

9. What is it, pray tell, in your opinion?

[Progressive dog]

10. NSA spying isn't it, I could make a list but

it would be a lot easier just to look at my party's platform. I don't think NSA spying even made the Democrat's list.
It is interesting that it seems to be your top priority
I figure it'll be a while before the "drones" and metadata zombies come for me.

[Scuba]

11. So you can't cite your own, but you're pretty sure you know mine. Fascinating.

[Progressive dog]

12. You made yours plain by your defense of the OP

See, you don't get away with defending a claim and the say it isn't yours.

[Scuba]

13. What defense of the OP? I made no such defense.

[Progressive dog]

14. No, of course you didn't

Except for this -see "pray tell" gives away your cleverness.

What is it, pray tell, in your opinion?

In response to

The most important issue facing the American people
is not the NSA. Not even close.

[Scuba]

16. You're reading way too much into those two words. But if leaping to conclusions is your thing ...

... then jump right in.

[Progressive dog]

17. So you choode not to repudiate your defense of the OP?

I didn't think you would.

[Scuba]

18. I made no defense of the OP. I merely asked what your top issue is.

And you still have not cited one. If I were a conclusion-jumper, I might conclude that you care about nothing.

[Progressive dog]

21. Yes you did defend the OP and you asked me

a childish question. I have no top issue, I support the Democratic platform, I vote for people to represent me in the government.
I do find it difficult to be enraged about NSA storing pen records of my phone calls. I keep trying but then I read another post telling me why I should believe a fleeing accused felon, over our elected government, and I start laughing again.

[Scuba]

22. You don't have to believe a " fleeing accused felon, over our elected government" ...

&quot Sen. Wyden) on Edward Snowden, how the NSA misled Congress, and reining in the massive collection"

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10023381665

[LWolf]

19. Willing to attack but not willing to discuss your own.

Now THAT surely adds substance to any discussion.

[Progressive dog]

20. I don't usually assign priorities 1,2, or 3

to things I want done. Children do that, adults can walk and chew bubble gum.
BTW Writing the word substance is not substantive.

[LWolf]

23. I don't either, but at least I can list them.

Here are some of my priorities, in no particular order:

Repeal the Patriot Act in full.

Get rid of Homeland Security.

Get rid of "Citizens United."

Restore all civil liberties eroded by the Bush Administration and the Obama administration.

End all current military action, and engage in no future action that is not sanctioned by the U.N..

End the privatization of all public services. Make all public services, including utilities, roads, and other infrastructure, non-profit and public, accomplished by public employees.

Make sure every employee in the nation has a trade union to support them.

Repeal NAFTA and all "free" trade agreements, in favor of fair trade based on environmental and labor standards.

Return manufacturing jobs to the U.S..

Universal national health care paid for by taxes and free at the point of service.

Universal, FREE, 100% PUBLIC education, preschool - university or trade school.

That's a start. There's plenty of substance there.

What kind of "progressive dog" are you? A DLC "PPI" progressive, or an old-school economic progressive, or?

What do you care about, other than jumping in to "disagree" with people without stating your own positions?

[Progressive dog]

30. I don't like to waste time since the Democratic platform is readily available,

especially since I am responding to a post about a specific issue. So now I know all your priorities in general terms without even asking.

[LWolf]

34. .

But repeatedly replying to others without offering anything at all somehow is not a waste of time.

[morningfog]

76. Of course. The Democratic platform is there, what else could anyone

every need?

Do you have a link to that readily available platform?

[Progressive dog]

83. Certainly don't need Snowden worship but maybe it's in the platform..

You might want to check the Democratic party site, I would assume that any Democrat with computer skills had been there. You might learn a little about Democrats.

[PufPuf23]

91. I concur with your list. nt

[matthews]

26. I followed you all the way down to here where you say you don't usually assign

numbers to priorities but somehow you had already decided that the NSA spying wasn't even on the list. But weren't you the one who posted:

7. The most important issue facing the American people

is not the NSA. Not even close.

???????????

What was that, your exception to the rule?

[Progressive dog]

29. I told you, the priorities in the Democratic platform come first

I didn't say I have no priorities, I said I didn't assign them numbers.

[matthews]

31. But you can tell us what isn't even on the list? Okay, I think I finally understand. nt

[Progressive dog]

33. At this time no because it would be giving

in to a childish change of subject. I don't think you do understand.

[matthews]

40. Nice try, no cigar. nt

[Progressive dog]

42. No cigar, I can't have a prize from you.

My feelings are hurt. LOL

[matthews]

43. Don't really care. I don't prioritize things myself. Then again, nor do I leave them

'off the list' and pretend that I'm not assigning priorities.

I recognize hypocrisy when I see it and I try to avoid it at all costs.

[Progressive dog]

45. Wouldn't "off the list" be a priority of never? nt

You finally got it and I thought you were just pretending to be dense.

[matthews]

46. Keep trying. I'll check back later to see if a brain cell ever kicks in.

I doubt that it will, but you might be able to scrape up a clue along with a spark of integrity.

[Progressive dog]

47. Has yours yet? Will it ever? How would you know?

I'll check back later to see if a brain cell ever kicks in.

[matthews]

49. Going the Pee Wee Herman route, are you? "I know I am but what are you?"

You are now entering WOT Zone

WOT standing for 'waste of time'.

[Progressive dog]

50. Nope, I was serious about you,

Pee Wee was a comedian.

[Uncle Joe]

61. The priorities of the Democratic Platform are less likely to occur,

when the government becomes estranged from the people the government itself is weakened.

Many people here including myself believe these policies to be surefire signs of a drift toward a full blown police state.

Police states rarely if ever pass liberal or progressive policies and if they do, they're less likely to stand the test of time.

Our nation's greatest strength has never been the size of our military or police force, it's the ideal of the American People being in communion with our elected representative government.

When the government begins to view the people as being guilty until proven innocent, while continually creating barriers between the people because we're all suspect, faith in government to represent the people or nation's best interests erodes.

[Progressive dog]

62. "a drift toward a full blown police state. "

I can't see how anyone can believe that. I still get to choose the people who run my government. I know some states are trying to prevent voting, but that has nothing to do with the NSA. What I don't want to see is a drowned Federal government.

[Uncle Joe]

67. There are two primary ways that can happen.

1. If you're a liberal, progressive or even moderate, the power of your vote will diminish over time as more of that political persuasion will become alienated or disenfranchised from the system, fewer voting = fewer in power.

The people most enthusiastic about participating will be the extremist authoritarians, a police state will more or less be voted into power.

2. I don't believe Obama to be the one to do it but when a future Dick Cheney or George W. Bush come to power, as the people become increasingly frustrated over the surveillance state and eternal war, that future administration will be positioned to crack down even more, declaring martial law.

Surveillance state morphs into a police state.

[Progressive dog]

69. Okay, if that's what you think.

If you're a liberal, progressive or even moderate, the power of your vote will diminish over time as more of that political persuasion will become alienated or disenfranchised from the system, fewer voting = fewer in power.

Some conservatives probably aren't in favor of a police state, either. I worry more about the states preventing people from voting and gerrymandering to take away the value of votes.
I honestly don't get this obsession with the Federal government having records that were freely given to corporations.
I also don't get this eternal war stuff. The war in Iraq is over. The war in Afghanistan is winding down.
We have a system of government that has lasted for over two hundred years. It's a remarkable run for a Democracy.

[Uncle Joe]

71. Conservatives have the strongest track record of disenfranchising the vote

with more conservatives in power, both in government and corporations controlling the vote counting, preventing the vote will go on the upswing.

Corporations don't rule the American People, (at least not technically) government does.

Government swears to uphold and defend the Constitution which of course includes the Bill of Rights, government can draft your son or daughter and send them to war, government can send you to jail, government can tax you.

I'm not suggesting corporations shouldn't be held to account as well in regards to our information but government with the power to pass law should be held to a higher standard.

The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars aside, the so called "War on Terror" (an emotion) has no end date and could conceivably last forever.

[Progressive dog]

72. War on terror, war on drugs

Neither are real wars. We survived a so-called cold-war, that lasted for nearly fifty years. The other side had lots of weapons including nuclear.
Government does not rule us, we elect the people who run the government. Government employees, who are part of us, swear to uphold the Constitution. Government employees are people, just like us, and go to work to do a job. A relatively small number violate their oaths.
The Federal government is where to go to stop States from trampling on the Bill of Rights, minority rights, woman's rights, and even voting rights. The continuous attacks by the Libertarians and their allies on a Progressive administration is much more dangerous to our system of laws than anything done by the NSA. To my knowledge the actual harm caused to Americans by the NSA is minimal to nonexistent.

[Uncle Joe]

75. War on terror, war on drugs don't have to be real wars to serve its' purpose.

I would wager our nation has spent/wasted far more on the so called War on Drugs in treasure, blood, energy and resources than Iraq and Afghanistan combined and what's the result?

Nothing but disaster on multiple levels.

Now we have an industry that profits from imprisoning the American People, and what pray tell do you believe the for profit prison industry spends it's money on?

Lobbying Congress for more democracy? A more compassionate society?

Logic dictates their money and persuasion is spent on encouraging more draconian lock-em up and throw away the key laws. More prisoners = more profit, plain and simple.

Believe it or not the federal government is not always on the right of the issues, voting rights certainly didn't get much shrift in 2000.

The First Amendment was totally trashed by the federal government during the Cold War, "Are you now or have you ever been a Communist?"

[Progressive dog]

85. We've wasted a lot of money and lives but

we're not the only nation that has
.

The First Amendment was totally trashed by the federal government during the Cold War

I thought the cold war was over, besides we've had sedition acts, quashing free speech, early in our history and under Wilson. It's curious to me that you would pick the Communist party as an example of suppressed speech. It was an authoritarian party, run from the Soviet Union.

Believe it or not, I never claimed it was.

Believe it or not the federal government is not always on the right of the issues, voting rights certainly didn't get much shrift in 2000.

I kind of thought voter suppression and refusal to count votes correctly in the STATE of FLORIDA was the prime reason that Bush could steal the election. The Supreme Court let them get away with it, but they weren't the perpetrators. The Federal government is on the right side of issues much more often then the states.

[Uncle Joe]

88. In regards to the so called "War on Drugs"

"We've wasted a lot of money and lives but

we're not the only nation that has"

That's hardly comforting.

I picked the Communist Party because it was the most blatant example of the federal government using its' power to squash a political movement, in the process totally ignoring the First Amendment.

I'm of the persuasion that "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Patrick Henry/Voltaire whoever.

Many Americans whether they were Communists or not had their lives and/or careers ruined.

The rabid Congress of the day run by Joe McCarthy wasn't going after the Soviet Union, that was just the excuse, the Communist Witch-hunt was in fact the beginnings of the roll back of FDR's New Deal.

It was Red Scare propaganda and Joe was bathing in it, made in just in time for television's first appearance.

The word "Communist" was demonized, (today that doesn't seem to matter in regards to our relations and trade with China) next up was the word "Liberal" to be demonized and television played the patsy in that as well, today especially in the Republican Party the word moderate is taking a beating.

Yes the Cold War is over and we did have the Alien and Sedition Acts early in our history and eventually those ended, and the people's First Amendment Rights were restored.

But that just goes to show you how far down the rabbit hole, the nation can go in regards to becoming a police state. I don't take comfort in those examples either, I view them as warnings.

One final note the Supreme Court didn't just let them get away with it by issuing a piss poor decision, they aided and abetted by continuously injecting themselves into an arena belonging to the State and if need be Congress, they helped drag the clock out and then used lack of time as an excuse for stopping the counting of votes.

[Progressive dog]

89. Sedition act, Woodrow Wilson, was not early in our history.

This really has little or nothing to do with the original OP. I get that this is your blame Obama for all spying ever or attack the Federal government day. You may never have any other kind of day.
BTW I have never heard anyone other than states' rights people thinking that voting issues for Federal offices belong to the state.

One final note the Supreme Court didn't just let them get away with it by issuing a piss poor decision, they aided and abetted by continuously injecting themselves into an arena belonging to the State and if need be Congress, they helped drag the clock out and then used lack of time as an excuse for stopping the counting of votes.

[Uncle Joe]

90. It might simplify matters if you would make up your mind, but if it helps any you were correct the

first time on your post 85.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3392167

I thought the cold war was over, besides we've had sedition acts, quashing free speech, early in our history and under Wilson. It's curious to me that you would pick the Communist party as an example of suppressed speech. It was an authoritarian party, run from the Soviet Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_sedition_act

The Alien and Sedition Acts were four bills passed in 1798 by the Federalists in the 5th United States Congress in the aftermath of the French Revolution and during an undeclared naval war with France, later known as the Quasi-War. They were signed into law by President John Adams.

Each state runs their own election for federal office usually under their Secretary of State, in the case of the Florida 2000 Presidential Race it was Katherine Harris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Florida,_2000


The actions of the Florida Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, who was in charge of state election procedures, also came under fire, due to her status as a Bush state campaign co-chairman, her involvement with the "scrub list", and her behavior during the recount crisis. In particular, democracy advocates have taken issue with her antagonizing of Democratic lawyers, her dispatching of a lawyer to Palm Beach county to convince the voting board of voting down a manual recount[clarification needed] (despite thousands of protesters within the county including 12,000 with affidavits), and in particular her collaboration with Republican party advisers (at one point housing them).

My contention is according to the Constitution, the U.S. Supreme Court continually overstepped its' bounds by interjecting itself into that election and they didn't do it to protect the vote but to curtail it.

The Constitution has a simple remedy for what happened in Florida, the Florida Supreme Court eventually ruled that all the votes in the State should be recounted, if the Republican controlled Florida legislature legislature didn't accept the result, they could choose their own electors, then it would be up to the United States Congress, House of Representatives to choose which slate of electors would be seated.

No doubt the Republican Florida Legislature would've chose electors to vote for Bush and the Republican controlled House would seated them even if Al Gore won the recount as mandated by the Florida Supreme Court.

But at least that would've been constitutional, and I have no doubt the Republicans would've paid a heavy political price for doing such a thing in 2002 and 2004.

I believe the U.S. Supreme Court knew that and did what they did to protect the Republican Party.

Furthermore I'm more of an issues person than a personality thrall, if I believe Obama deserves credit I will give him kudos, likewise if I believe he deserves criticism I fell obligated to do that as well, much better an honest critic than a continuous yes man/woman or sycophant.

From my post #67, in case you didn't read it or forgot.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3387738

2. I don't believe Obama to be the one to do it but when a future Dick Cheney or George W. Bush come to power, as the people become increasingly frustrated over the surveillance state and eternal war, that future administration will be positioned to crack down even more, declaring martial law.

Surveillance state morphs into a police state.

In conclusion I will say this to answer your question, my original post on this thread and pretty much every one in between didn't have anything to do with the OP so much as your contention that the Democratic Platform should be the only or main concern.

My contention is that history has proven whether in the late 18th early 19th century during the Alien and Sedition Acts to the early and mid 20th century from the Red Scare and McCarthy Era witch-hunts to the early 21st century when Bush and Cheney decided to throw out the Geneva Conventions and embrace torture, our federal government is capable of great evil in the hands of wrong or misguided people.

You dismiss too easily the potential abuse of power an omnipresent surveillance state can pose in taking the U.S. a step farther away from a well-functioning democratic-republic to a full blown police state at your own or descendants' peril.

[Progressive dog]

92. Sedition acts under Wilson were not the same

as Alien And Sedition acts, but they were still Sedition acts.
Extra words won't change that fact.

[Uncle Joe]

93. That's why I included this paragraph in my post to which you just responded to.

My contention is that history has proven whether in the late 18th early 19th century during the Alien and Sedition Acts to the early and mid 20th century from the Red Scare and McCarthy Era witch-hunts to the early 21st century when Bush and Cheney decided to throw out the Geneva Conventions and embrace torture, our federal government is capable of great evil in the hands of wrong or misguided people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_scare

In your earlier post you stated it was early in U.S. history then in a later you said it wasn't so forgive my confusion.

But it really doesn't make any difference because sedition acts happened at both times, just different forms, and none of that changes the point of my post.

That being you dismiss our evolution into a surveillance state at your and your descendants peril because when we do enter another period of Bill of Rights raping and potential martial law by the federal government, it will be far more powerful and overcoming that democratic republic threatening, civil rights catastrophe will be infinitely more difficult and costly than it ever has been in the past.

[Progressive dog]

94. You can't possibly not know what and means.

You wrote

In your earlier post you stated it was early in U.S. history then in a later you said it wasn't so forgive my confusion.

In response to

I thought the cold war was over, besides we've had sedition acts, quashing free speech, early in our history and under Wilson.

Next time you should try responding to what I said, rather than to what you thought I'd said.
In case you missed it, I also said this

Sedition act, Woodrow Wilson, was not early in our history.

If I didn't know about little things like the Civil War, the nullification crisis, the Jim Crow era, the Sedition acts, the interment of the Japanese Americans, etc., then I would take a little longer to dismiss this fantasy.

That being you dismiss our evolution into a surveillance state at your and your descendants peril because when we do enter another period of Bill of Rights raping and potential martial law by the federal government, it will be far more powerful and overcoming that democratic republic threatening, civil rights catastrophe will be infinitely more difficult and costly than it ever has been in the past.

[Uncle Joe]

95. Yes because all those other crisis means this little "fantasy"

couldn't possibly happen?

[Progressive dog]

96. Now that depends on what you mean by

couldn't possibly. Your "fantasy' probably has odds that are worse than the odds of a single set of numbers winning megamillions.

[Uncle Joe]

97. I'm curious, how did you determine the odds?

Was there some sort of scientific method or advanced math?

[Progressive dog]

98. Just made the odds up based on

other stuff that doesn't happen. In order to use math to determine odds, you actually need a least a reasonable hypothesis that something can happen.

[RC]

78. No, not by a long shot.

The priorities of the American People come first, over the Democratic Party.
We already have the priorities of the Democratic Party over the American people and look where we are.

That has to change.

[Progressive dog]

82. Political parties are elected to do the stuff in their

platforms. The American people who don't agree get to vote next time.

[RC]

84. Are you forgetting the election fraud, gerrymandering, picking who we are allowed to vote for in

the primaries?
The rigged, touch screen, electronic voting machines, that do not have any realistic auditing system.
People running and campaigning as being Left of center, telling us what we want to hear, then when elected governing as Right of Center Republicans? I can think of some high profile names there.

Our election/political system is as corrupt as in any banana republic. We won't even allow the UN to monitor our national elections, even when we demand to monitor the election in other countries.

It is "We the people...", not "They of the Party...".

[Progressive dog]

87. No, but those issues have nothing to do with

whether a political party should try to do what it says it will do.
BTW The UN should stay the hell out of US politics.
This is a joke, right? Why would you bother to post on this board or to ever vote if you believed what you wrote?

Our election/political system is as corrupt as in any banana republic.

It is "We the people...", not "They of the Party..

We the people refers to the people as a whole. It doesn't refer to you as an individual. You cannot seriously be telling me that I am not allowed to join with others that have similar political views to elect a candidate.
I'm now trying to understand why you are on a Democratic website.

[HiPointDem]

41. actually, adults in business & government do it all the time. all the time, in formal plans & on

paper.

[Progressive dog]

44. Adults in business and government do it all the time and

so what. You may do this for a living but I don't. To me this is a discussion board. I don't get to vote on stuff or veto it either. I do get to think people who are obsessed with the Snowden Revelations (King Glenn version) probably have theie priorities far out of place.

[HiPointDem]

51. you claimed that adults didn't prioritize, 'only children,' because adults could do two things at

once.

that's a completely different claim from the one you make now, that this is just a discussion board, blah blah blah.

adults *do* prioritize.

[Progressive dog]

53. "you claimed that adults didn't prioritize" No I didn't

you must have a difficult time with reading comprehension.

[HiPointDem]

55. yes, you implicitly *did*:

"I don't usually assign priorities 1,2, or 3 to things I want done. Children do that, adults can walk and chew bubble gum."

[Progressive dog]

59. No I didn't, I explicitly didn't.

You seem to have a serious problem with understanding the written word or maybe it's just laziness on your part.

[HiPointDem]

74. i have no problem.

[sabrina 1]

36. Really, since when did Bush's spy policies 'not make the Democrats' list'? Airc it has been on the

Democrats' list he began forcing them on the American people.

Are these people Democrats, btw?

Al Franken
Alan Grayson
Ron Wyden
John Conyers

to name just a few of those Democrats now working on bills to eliminate funding for the Spying on Americans programs?

[Progressive dog]

39. I'm assuming you can show me where they are in the platform

of the Democratic party. If you can't, I don't know what you are arguing about. There is a difference between a party's platform and a small group of elected party members. The platform is supposed to represent the majority of the party.

to name just a few of those Democrats now working on bills to eliminate funding for the Spying on Americans programs?

That is a wee exaggeration.

[sabrina 1]

58. Like I said, you need to catch up with the news. It is not a 'small group' of Democrats

anymore, it is a majority of our elected Democrats now. And a growing number of Republicans. They lost the last vote by such a narrow margin despite the reported intense pressure on them not to vote for it.

And members are now stating 'that was just the beginning, this is not going away' and 'this is unstoppable'.

Let me ask you something, why are you supporting Bush policies here? I have never met a Democrat over the past 12 years who supported Bush's phony 'WOT' and/or Illegal Wars, or his use of fear to push these totally unconstitutional policies?

But recently a few people have shown up on Dem Forums clearly supporting these policies and I'm wondering why?? What changed your mind, assuming you were opposed to Bush and all his criminal activities?

[Progressive dog]

60. Probably like 20million plus Democrats total

and nothing in the platform and youy can find a handful. That's far from a majority.

nd members are now stating 'that was just the beginning, this is not going away' and 'this is unstoppable'.

Members must be a lot.

Libertarians are Republicans not Democrats for a reason. The vast majority of Libertarians support your position on NSA spying.
As far as this crap

Let me ask you something, why are you supporting Bush policies here? I have never met a Democrat over the past 12 years who supported Bush's phony 'WOT' and/or Illegal Wars, or his use of fear to push these totally unconstitutional policies?

Why the hell are you supporting Rand Paul policies? The Iraq war is over, Bush is no longer President, and while all this may somehow be tied in your mind to metadata, I don't see the connection.

[sabrina 1]

63. I asked you a question.

Don't want to answer it? Fine, that leaves me free to draw my own conclusions.

[Progressive dog]

64. Of course you did and you didn't understand the

answer. That's not my fault.

[sabrina 1]

73. I perfectly understood your comment.

[MineralMan]

15. The NSA deal is NOT the most important issue

facing the American people. Jobs and the economy are. The NSA has virtually zero impact on the 99%. The NSA is not even interested in the 99%. It has other stuff to do, involving things outside of the US. It is simply not interested in us.

"The American People" are trying to get, keep, and find jobs. They're not worried about the NSA. Truly.

[JaneyVee]

32. This is a fringe issue. While we can see the importance of reigning in the NSA,

You're correct in saying this is not even close to the most important issue facing the American people. I don't get the hair on fire about this issue, we've known about this for over a decade and still lack evidence of any nefarious use of it by the NSA, yet every day the Republicans plan on nefariously harming the American public.

[RobertEarl]

37. Denial still running deep, eh, Janey?

We only have bipartisan questioning of the nsa, and several very good Democratic senators raising alarms, yet you sit there and say there is nothing to it?

[sabrina 1]

38. Bush policies have always been at the top of the list of important issues for Democrats.

Did you not this? Thankfully a majority of Congressional Dems are now refusing to succumb to pressure, as they have stated, and fully intend to pursue this issue. This is why we, Democrats, support them.

Of course Americans want jobs. They also wanted, by overwhelming majorities, no bailouts for Wall St. criminals who are the cause of their economic problems.

That didn't happen, War and Wall St criminals who have cost this country so much, in jobs, in loss of homes, pensions etc have been protected. Now Congress is moving towards taking the first steps to try to dismantle Bush's dangerous policies, a bit late, but better late than never.

I feel more encouraged this week to see how Congress has finally begun to address these most important issues than we could have over the past 12 years since Bush first forced them on the country.

[grasswire]

77. how the NSA affects Americans

Please note: the first fifty of one hundred noted effects of the budget sequestration tell the story of a looted U.S. Treasury.


1. Air Force base jobs lost in Tullahoma, Tenn. -- The Aerospace Testing Alliance announced it is cutting 128 of 1,809 civilian jobs at Arnold Air Force Base in Tullahoma starting April 19. It has also put in place a 20 percent pay cut and weekly furloughs for workers at a research facility.

2. Loss of jobs in Rock Island, Ill. -- The U.S. Army garrison, Rock Island Arsenal, announced that it is firing 175 employees, 44 of whom are temporary workers, 131 of whom will see their jobs unrenewed when their terms expire.

3. Medical response times lengthened in central Nebraska. -- Medical responders have had response times lengthened because of the closing of a control tower at the Central Nebraska Regional Airport.

4. Food pantry closed in Murray, Utah. -- The Salt Lake Community Action Program closed its food pantry, one of five locations that serve more than 1,000 people every month. Executive Director Cathy Hoskins told The Huffington Post that in addition to the closure, the organization has stopped paying into employees' retirement plans, won't fill an open job and told some staffers to take a week's unpaid leave. "I've had one person retire, we're not replacing them. We're not doing any hiring at all," Hoskins said. "We're trying very hard to boost our volunteers, but this is hard work working in a pantry. And if you get a volunteer, usually it's a short-term volunteer because it's just very very difficult work. ... No raises, no increases, none of that stuff. We're cutting everything we possibly can."

5. Research employees lost in Durham, N.C. -- The Duke Clinical Research Institute is planning to "downsize" 50 employees.

6. Contractor jobs lost in southwest Oklahoma. -- Northrop Grumman Information Systems Lawton, Okla., site issued 26 layoff notices. The defense contractor CGI is anticipating that sequestration would affect 270 workers at its Lawton site.

7. Health care jobs cut in Hampton Roads, Va. -- Officials at Hampton Roads Planning District Commission announce that 1,600 jobs in the region's health care sector will disappear. "It won't be job cuts," said James A. Clary, an economist with the group. "It will be not filling the positions."

8. Health care workers laid off in Saranac Lake, N.Y. -- Adirondack Health, a medical center at Lake Placid, announced that was laying off 18 workers after firing 17 in December.

9. Rehabilitation center for Native Americans closed in Sitka, Alaska. -- The SouthEast Alaska Regional Health Consortium announced that on April 30, it is closing the Bill Brady Healing Center, a residential drug and alcohol treatment center for Alaska Natives. Michael Jenkins, communications director, said the approximately 20 people who work there will be transferred to other positions in the organization, furloughed or fired. "For the most part, because of our location here in southeast, alcohol and drug abuse has a very high incidence. So taking this away is going to make it difficult," he said.

10. Education jobs lost in Sioux City, Iowa. -- The Iowa Early Intervention education program is bracing for the loss of 11 teaching positions, while the Sioux City Community School Board is looking at potentially 30 staff positions being eliminated.

11. Convention industry suffers nationwide. -- The cancellation of government trade shows and the reduction of private travel has begun taking a hit on the convention venue industry.

12. Tourism jobs take a hit in Savannah, Ga. -- Fort Pulaski National Monument announced that it was hiring fewer seasonal employees this summer to deal with $68,000 in sequestration cuts. "It will have an impact," Acting Superintendent Terri Wales told The Huffington Post. "We will lose one permanent positions and our staff is only 16. We will be short a couple seasonal positions this summer. we won't be able to perform as many interpretive programs as we do in the summer months. Our grass will be growing a little higher."

13. Workers furloughed in Syracuse, N.Y. -- The Hancock Field Air National Guard Base will furlough 280 workers in the coming months and Syracuse city schools will lose over $1 million.

14. Cuts to workers at a missile-testing site in the Marshall Islands. -- The U.S. ambassador to the Marshall Islands has been told that 15 percent of the workforce at the Reagan Test Site at Kwajalein Atoll could lose jobs.

15. Families that rely on Head Start targeted in Bethlehem, Pa. -- Allentown-based Community Services for Children has warned that 100 children in Lehigh Valley could lose their place in the Head Start program there.

16. Meals on Wheels cut in central Maine. -- Spectrum Generations, central Maine's agency on aging, will essentially have to cut 9 percent of its budget, meaning that programs like Meals on Wheels may not deliver to all the seniors who rely on it.

17. Fewer staffers for Head Start in Rio Grande Valley, Texas. -- A local Head Start chapter froze the hiring of 19 staff positions in order to meet sequester cut demands.

18. Medical jobs at risk in Providence, R.I. -- Lifespan, the nonprofit parent of major medical facilities including Rhode Island Hospital association, acknowledged significant budget problems caused, in part, by sequestration. The funding issues could reportedly result in the loss of 3,000 jobs at that association by 2021.

19. Shorter school week at Fort Bragg, N.C. -- The military is considering shifting to a four-day school week, which would affect 84,000 students on military installations worldwide and 5,000 at Fort Bragg. Teachers may also face furloughs in the coming months.

20. Fewer children enrolled in Head Start in Cincinnati, Ohio. -- The Cincinnati-Hamilton County Community Action Agency is figuring out how it will cut its Head Start program, which may affect teacher positions, bus routes and students enrolled in the program. Right now, as many as 182 students may be dropped from the program, although Michelle Hopkins of CAA told The Huffington Post that the organization is still waiting for final budget numbers. "They are in limbo," she said of the families that rely on Head Start. "They're worried; they don't want to lose their Head Start slot." She added that her biggest concern is what will happen to the children who are cut because of sequestration. "Will they end up in sub-quality care? Will they end up with an older family member who doesn't have the skills to teach them the skills they need at this point?"

21. Work-Study jobs cut in Chapel Hill, N.C. -- University of North Carolina will cut 31 work-study jobs in the next academic year because of an $84,000 sequestration-related cut. "We have made lots of offers but we could use so much more in work study," Shirley Ort, the school's associate provost and director of scholarships and student aid told The Huffington Post.

22. Health care industry suffers in Dallas. -- The Board of Managers at Parkland Memorial Hospital received word that it would lose $2 million this year. The Dallas-Fort Worth Hospital Council, meanwhile, said that 50,000 health care jobs could be lost in all of Texas if sequestration lasts through 2021.

23. Housing employees face possible layoffs in Joliet, Ill. -- The Housing Authority of Joliet, already struggling, is going to lose nearly $900,000 due to sequestration. It recently sent layoff warnings to employees.

24. School aid slashed in Knoxville, Tenn. -- The University of Tennessee's financial aid office announced it would slash 33 student awards across two programs for the 2013-14 school year

25. Layoffs expected in Fort Lee, Va. -- Fort Lee alerted the state that it projects a combined 168 layoffs in the next 60 days.

26. Scientific research at risk in Long Island, N.Y. -- Officials at Brookhaven National Laboratory's Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider have begun airing concerns that their facility in Upton (which supports 860 jobs) is at risk of being gutted.

27. Less camping in Connell, Wash. -- Scooteney Park has remained closed to campers because of sequestration. Day use remains intact.

28. Weeks of Head Start dropped in Iron County, Mo. -- The Ironton Head Start Center said it will drop three weeks of coverage due to sequestration.

29. Air show cancelled in Rapid City, S.D. -- Officials at Ellsworth Air Force Base have cancelled the Dakota Thunder air show this year. It has been held every few years for decades at the base.

30. Funding for child care lost in Arizona. -- The Department of Economic Security expects to lose nearly $3 million in child-care funding. That means the state must come up with extra funds in order to keep about 1,000 children of working parents in child care.

31. Medical and scientific research at risk in California. -- A group of biomedical researchers report that California stands to lose $180 million in medical and scientific research.

32. Fewer volcanoes monitored in Fairbanks, Alaska. -- The Alaska Volcano Observatory, which monitors volcanoes because ash cloud eruptions can impair intercontinental aviation, announced that it is cutting back some of its real-time monitoring because of sequestration.

33. Loss of jobs in Knoxville, Tenn. -- Tellico Services Inc., announced that it was laying off approximately 85 of its 200 workers, citing a lack of orders from the military.

34. Hit to medical center in Indiana. -- D. Craig Brater, dean of Indiana University's School of Medicine, warned that, "sequestration will have a disproportionate impact on our academic medical center and our ability to care for our sickest and most vulnerable patients, both now and in the future."

35. Fewer students in Head Start in Laramie, Wyo. -- The local Head Start is losing at least $36,700 -- eliminating 5 percent to 5.9 percent of this year's budget. The group is still figuring out how to absorb the cuts, looking at eliminating an entire classroom or cutting staff positions.

36. Cut to unemployment benefits in the Virgin Islands. -- Weekly unemployment checks for Virgin Islanders will be cut by 10.7 percent.

37. Poverty-fighting program suspended in West Virginia. -- West Virginia workers with VISTA -- the national service program designed to fight poverty -- remain in limbo due to sequestration. For the rest of the fiscal year, there will be no new VISTA projects in the state, no new VISTA workers starting service and those whose terms end will not be allowed to renew for another year with the group.

38. Furloughs at Head Start in Allegany County, Pa. -- The non-profit ACCORD Corp. announced that 60 employees at the Head Start program would be forced to take a week off of work without pay and that several management positions were being reduced from 12 months to 10 months in length. "We took the tact, in the short term, to not eliminate any staff positions between now and September in hopes that some budget will be resolved," Charlie Kalthoff, executive director, told The Huffington Post. "We eliminated some work days and cut back on staffing hours but didn't eliminate positions."

39. No military aircraft at show in Louisville, Ky. -- Thunder Over Lousiville organizers said they have been told that they will not get military aircraft for the show this year, due to sequestration.

40. Public services cut in Erie, Pa. -- The Erie County Department of Human Services estimates that it will lose $1.9 million to $2.7 million in the 2013-2014 fiscal year because of sequestration, meaning the agency will likely have to "end up cutting programs, providing less services."

41. Possible furloughs in Orange County, Calif. -- More than 2,600 civilian employees at Southern California military bases may be forced to take unpaid leave in the coming weeks.

42. Disruption to public broadcasting in Virginia. -- Blue Ridge PBS is shutting down two transmitters that carry the station's over-the-air digital signal to southwest Virginia and Tennessee.

43. Flight 93 Memorial less accessible in Stoystown, Pa. -- The National Park Service is reducing the number of hours the public can visit the Flight 93 National Memorial, which honors the heroism of the passengers aboard United Flight 93 on Sept. 11, 2001. The monument will start operating its longer summer hours on May 1, instead of April 1 as planned, and it will likely hire fewer seasonal staff employees and have fewer interpretative programs.

44. Unemployment benefits reduced in Lancaster, Pa. -- Approximately 99,000 people in Pennsylvania will see their unemployment compensation reduced by 10.7 percent. In Lancaster County, it was reported that some 2,700 people may lose needed benefits.

45. Research funding cut in Gainesville, Fla. -- The University of Florida said that it is expecting a $14 million cut in federal research funding. It has more than 1,000 active research projects.

46. Airport tower closed in Frederick, Md. -- Less than a year after it opened, sequestration is forcing the closure of Frederick Municipal Airport�s control tower. It's the busiest general aviation airport in the state, with about 130,000 annual flight operations.

47. Air show cancelled in Cleveland, Ohio -- The 2013 Cleveland Air Show has been cancelled.

48. School jobs slashed in Hampton Roads, Va. -- Faced with a budget shortfall and another $2.5 million lost due to sequestration, Hampton City Schools are slashing $10 million and more than 193 positions. Eighty-six teacher jobs and 59 instruction support staff are up for elimination.

49. Medicare patients turned away in Manchester, Conn. -- With sequestration cutting Medicare payments to doctors, at least one private practice sent out a letter saying it would no longer be able to afford treating Medicare patients, effective April 1.

50. No overtime for customs agents in Long Beach, Calif. -- Customs agents at the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles are seeing their overtime cut.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/02/sequestration-effects_n_2996101.html

Food for hungry people. Mental health care and medical care for the troubled and sick. Clean safe food and water. Safety in the skies. Open courts and open libraries. Early childhood education and enrichment. Jobs, jobs, jobs. Tip of the iceberg!

Saying that the NSA does not affect the lives of Americans reveals either a sly agenda or an inability to parse the cause and effect of expenditures of taxpayer monies.

The War on Some Drugs looted our treasury.

The prison-industrial binge looted our treasury.

The surveillance state is the third strike in the war on the profits of American labor.

So stop saying there's zero effect on we 99%.

[JPZenger]

24. There are critical issues being decided about the sequester - Repubs are in disarray

The House Republicans have been unable to agree on their policies to increase the sequester. Many members now realize that further cuts would hurt too many defense and popular programs. The moderate Republicans and the defense hawks are revolting. It is a great opportunity for Obama to drive a wedge between the teabaggers and the moderates.

There also was a big fight in the House about whether the US should cut $1 billion in aid to Egypt.

Yes, there is more happening in the world other than the NSA controversy,

[Whisp]

27. that is correct. Obama probably didn't even know Recyle Green had a meeting.

and I doubt very much Green is priority when there is so much ugly happening with the pugs and teas. Jobs, economy, women's issues, climate, so much to worry and work about.

Recycle Green and his foot stomping is barely an 1/8th of a flyshit speck

[Raine1967]

28. Wait a minute, to the best of my knowledge only Greenwald such a claim.

Greenwald: NSA hearing canceled

This week's informal congressional hearing on the National Security Agency's surveillance program has been canceled, according to The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald, who was expected to testify via satellite.

Democratic congressman Alan Grayson and a bipartisan group of congressman were expected to hear from Greenwald and other critics of the NSA's surveillance practices on Wednesday, according to a Guardian report from last week. The meeting was not meant to be a formal committee hearing, but would take place on the Hill before a dozen members of Congress from both parties.

But Greenwald now tells POLITICO that the hearing has been canceled due to Obama's decision to meet with House Democrats.

"Obama developed a sudden and newfound interest in House Democrats and scheduled a meeting with them for that same time," he wrote in an email, adding that the committee was trying to re-schedule the meeting to take place before congress goes on recess.

Representatives from both the American Civil Liberties Union and the conservative Cato Institute were expected to testify, Grayson told The Guardian.

Here is some other background: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023376466

Where, and I am asking this honestly, aside from Glenn Greenwald, did it come from that this meeting on Capitol Hill was supposed to be about the NSA?

[deurbano]

54. Grayson said the same thing: The hearing was "reluctantly" postponed because

it "would have conflicted with the President’s recently-announced meeting with the House Democratic Caucus":

<<Congressman Alan Grayson (FL-09) has announced that tomorrow’s Bipartisan Ad Hoc Hearing on Domestic Surveillance will be postponed until early September. The ad hoc hearing was initially set to take place tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. Planned witnesses included Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian (via satellite); Julian Sanchez, Research Fellow at the Cato Institute; Michelle Richardson, Legislative Counsel at the ACLU; Yochai Benkler, Berkman Professor of Entrepreneurial Legal Studies at Harvard; and J. Kirk Wiebe, a former NSA senior analyst.

“Tomorrow’s ad hoc hearing would have conflicted with the President’s recently-announced meeting with the House Democratic Caucus,” Grayson explained. “As a result, we are reluctantly postponing it until Congress reconvenes in September. The American people want Congress to explore the legality, constitutionality, drawbacks, and supposed benefits of domestic surveillance – and we will ensure that these issues are evaluated at our ad hoc hearing in September.” >>


grayson.house.gov

[Raine1967]

65. Grayson didn't say what the OP and Greenwald alluded to.

Thank you for the reply, deurbano.

From what you said (here is a direct link):

“Tomorrow’s ad hoc hearing would have conflicted with the President’s recently-announced meeting with the House Democratic Caucus,” Grayson explained. “As a result, we are reluctantly postponing it until Congress reconvenes in September. The American people want Congress to explore the legality, constitutionality, drawbacks, and supposed benefits of domestic surveillance – and we will ensure that these issues are evaluated at our ad hoc hearing in September.”

Greenwald told Politico:

"Obama developed a sudden and newfound interest in House Democrats and scheduled a meeting with them for that same time," he wrote in an email, adding that the committee was trying to re-schedule the meeting to take place before congress goes on recess.

Even Congressperson Grayson isn't making such an accusation that this visit to Capitol Hill was supposed to be about intelligence issues.

Greenwald said this:

"Obama developed a sudden and newfound interest in House Democrats and scheduled a meeting with them for that same time," he wrote in an email, adding that the committee was trying to re-schedule the meeting to take place before congress goes on recess.

It's not the fault of the President that Congress went on recess.

Can you see the difference in communication styles from Grayson and Greenwald?

[deurbano]

70. Yes, not exactly the same. Greenwald is more directly expressing his suspicion

that the visit was an effort to pre-empt the hearing. At the same time, visits by this President (and probably most presidents) to the Hill in order to speak with the House and Senate Democratic caucuses are described as "rare" in the media. (Not "rare" like getting struck by lightening... but not frequent.) Obviously, Grayson was not aware of the conflict with the "the President’s recently-announced meeting" when he scheduled the hearing, so I don't think it is out of line to speculate on the timing. Greenwald made a brief, sarcastic comment that I don't think rises to the level of an explicit accusation. Grayson's message is not snarky, but uses the words "reluctantly" and "recently-announced," which didn't need to be included, so he may have suspicions, too... but is in a different position in terms of expressing them, since this is a Democratic president and he is a Democratic congressman. (Who knows?)

I do think there is the possibility that the President would like to take some of the steam out of what has been described as a gathering "momentum" in Congress to address the overreach of the NSA (etc.) I think he is scheduled to talk to some members of Congress today (at the White House?) on that subject. It is to his advantage to provide his own framing and spin before the hearing. So (to me), Greenwald's speculation is reasonable, even if not provable. (Mainly, though, it is a pretty insignificant aside.)

[Cali_Democrat]

48. Sorry to burst your bubble but the NSA issue is NOT the most important issue facing the US

Jobs, Jobs, Jobs.

WOW. It's amazing how many people here live in a totally encapsulated bubble, cut off from the rest of the world.

[grasswire]

81. 800 Billion would go a long way toward relieving the distress...

....of the unemployed and underemployed in America.

It ought to be criminal to suck the people's treasure up in another one of these massive heists of the product of the people's labor.

[The Corrector]

52. Obama has an excuse, if his meeting was schedule before Grayson's was

Does anyone know which meeting was scheduled first? It doesn't look good for Obama if he decided to schedule the meeting with House members after he knew the date of Grayson's meeting.

[deurbano]

56. Hard to say, but obviously Grayson had not "gotten the memo" regarding the President's visit

when he scheduled the ad hoc hearing:

<<Congressman Alan Grayson (FL-09) has announced that tomorrow’s Bipartisan Ad Hoc Hearing on Domestic Surveillance will be postponed until early September. The ad hoc hearing was initially set to take place tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. Planned witnesses included Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian (via satellite); Julian Sanchez, Research Fellow at the Cato Institute; Michelle Richardson, Legislative Counsel at the ACLU; Yochai Benkler, Berkman Professor of Entrepreneurial Legal Studies at Harvard; and J. Kirk Wiebe, a former NSA senior analyst.

“Tomorrow’s ad hoc hearing would have conflicted with the President’s recently-announced meeting with the House Democratic Caucus,” Grayson explained. “As a result, we are reluctantly postponing it until Congress reconvenes in September. The American people want Congress to explore the legality, constitutionality, drawbacks, and supposed benefits of domestic surveillance – and we will ensure that these issues are evaluated at our ad hoc hearing in September.” >>

[Raine1967]

66. it was an off the record meeting, it didn't have to be cancelled.

Maybe if Congress wasn't going on vacation -- AGAIN -- they wouldn't have run out of time.

[sheshe2]

79. An excuse, are you serious.

The President needs an excuse?

[geek tragedy]

57. cue the outrage: Obama gives Dems marching orders

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023387228

[burnodo]

68. I thought Greenwald was supposed to be responsible for this?

as he is for everything else under the sun?

[madrchsod]

80. the most important issue facing the american people?

the majority of people in the usa don`t give a shit about this issue. they have far more pressing issues to worry about.

right now the biggest issue i face is when i`m going to have another stent in my heart,whether or not my wife will win her grievance,and my daughter is working to much overtime.

[Safetykitten]

86. Nothing of note. Why?