I was 12 years old when the PATRIOT Act was passed.

[Gravitycollapse]

Rah rah rah "THIS ISN'T NEWS" rah rah rah.

I wasn't even truly politically conscious until the latter half of the decade.


To millions of Americans just like me, all of these details about covert surveillance and data mining are revelatory; absolutely, unequivocally mind blowing. Call me ignorant. Tell me I haven't been paying attention. Give me details about news exposure 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

The bottom line is this is absolutely fucking news.

[JimDandy]

1. Good point! n/t

[cali]

2. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you didn't really know the pre 9/11 world

It was different, and yes, it was a better way to live.

[Egnever]

3. I am happy that the fog of 9-11

Seems to be lifting for many.

If it wasn't this NSA thing still wouldn't be news.

I question the timing of the awakening, but I am glad to see people starting to wake up.

[Heidi]

4. Kick!

[Egnever]

5. This is absolutely fucking news

To you...

Here's some more news for you.

The country largely turned into blithering idiots for 5 years after 9-11 , A lot of nefarious shit was done during those years. Too much to list...

Enjoy all the "news" you keep hearing just now about those years.

Shrub and the pukes did a lot of destruction in those years mostly while the Dems sat idly by for fear of appearing unpatriotic. We will be years undoing a lot of it if it is ever undone.

[cantbeserious]

6. This Is Big News - Even For Someone Much Older

eom

[reformist2]

7. A scary thought for oldbies: this year's high school seniors... no memory of a pre-9/11 world.

We need to teach them that there was a difference in how we lived, and the amount of surveillance and monitoring that we tolerated. They may have read about that world, but they don't know it. We need to make sure they know what "normal" is.

[freedom fighter jh]

8. A lot of people don't know what's in the PATRIOT Act.

Congress had almost no time to read it before they passed it.

Worse, the FISA court's interpretation of what the PATRIOT Act means is secret. So even if you manage to read the whole long document that is the law, you still won't know how it works.

Yeah, this isn't news. But it is.

[ileus]

9. Their new America started 9/12

We will never recover the America I had for the first 31 years of my life.

[TBF]

10. We know -

That is why you'll see us older folks (and I'm not even quite 50 - but it's a world of difference to be able to remember what happened in the 70s and especially 80s w/Reagan taking office) posting about the changes we've seen in the past 35 years.

We're not just reminiscing. It really was a different world when rich folks actually paid taxes and the only time someone listened to your phone call is if you were on a party line (look it up!).

If you have questions please ask. We were there and have no interest in white-washing history like some of the pols who passed that horrible bill.

[Gravitycollapse]

11. Yes, and thank you for understanding our predicament.

[TBF]

12. It is a good OP -

I'm an older mom with children under 12. It's odd to me that they will grow up with many differences (including things like computers everywhere) - but especially differences like having to remove shoes before they get on flights. They will never run into an airport with 10 minutes to get to the gate and actually make the flight (as I did on businesses sometimes in the 90s).

But deeper than that it affects the way people look at the world. Having bags checked before entering places like Disney World (they didn't even do that 15 years ago) - all of this is new. It makes people more fearful and that affects their outlook. Not a small thing and has far-reaching effects.

[Harmony Blue]

13. You are fortunate

when the Patriot Act was passed and the horrible decision was made to go to War in Afghanistan and Iraq, a lot of my classmate from my graduating high school class of 2000 went straight into the military. Many of my class mates are now maimed, dead, MIA, or struggling to finish school with the GI Bill. Many are still struggling with PTSD. My generation has been wiped out either by military service in pointless wars or economically have no future or prospects of jobs.

[DirkGently]

14. "Things have sucked for a while now" isn't an argument anyway.

I think everyone with a shred of critical thinking dismisses that line or argument as obvious flailing.

What you say is true -- "we" are not all responsible for every mess we are currently in. Some weren't here, some were young, and many, many more DID object the first and second and 20th time these bad ideas were foisted on us.

The problem now is co-option. Money has been paid. Deals have been struck. Power structures are in place.

It will take more to start unburying ourselves from the New Security State than it would have taken earlier to simply prevent.

But fear is a powerful tool. A bomb goes off, and we are attacked and damaged thousand times over by those champing at endless possibilities for exploitation, profit, and control.