Amazon Is Worse Than Walmart

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/amazon-worse-walmart



President Barack Obama will visit an Amazon warehouse in Chattanooga, Tenn., today to talk job growth — but the speech comes at a particularly awkward time for the government to embrace the company. Or perhaps there’s no more apt time: a time when we need to ask whether Amazon’s growth will lead to the kind of economy or culture we actually want to have.

This isn’t the first time the administration has embraced Amazon: Obama’s Justice Department, in April 2012, went after publishers and Apple for price-fixing, leaving Jeff Bezos’ books-and-everything-else marketplace with what the New York Times called a “monopoly.”

But this visit comes at a time when Amazon’s clout in the book world, in Washington and on Wall Street seems increasingly unstoppable. Obama’s speech is the exclamation point on a whirlwind several weeks in which Amazon has consolidated its position. Barnes & Noble looks increasingly shaky. Amazon lost $7 million in the second quarter, but Wall Street yawned again, sending Amazon shares higher.

And Amazon felt confident enough last week — with Wall Street satisfied, bookstores reeling and the Justice Department going after publishers — to radically slash prices on many best-selling hardcovers to nearly unseen levels: $9.09 for Sheryl Sandberg’s “Lean In,” $11.65 for Dan Brown’s “Inferno.” That’s less than most paperbacks, and led one bookseller to call it a brazen “declaration of war.”

[Egnever]

1. NM

[Gravitycollapse]

2. Fuck, man. I love Amazon and I hate Walmart. I can't handle this level of cognitive dissonance.

Something has to give.

[Mr Dixon]

7. LOL

Agreed

[ejpoeta]

3. IF they were colluding that is one thing, but it seems that our government

s picking winners and losers. And that is wrong.

[BlueStreak]

55. The government picks winners and losers every time it awards a contract

How do you suppose General Dynamics, Raytheon, EDS, Boeing, Lockheed, Computer Scienc Corp, and GE got so big?

[GreenStormCloud]

64. What contracts with the government do Amazon, B & N, Bookseller, etc. have?

[BlueStreak]

75. They probably sell a lot of their cloud computing and network capacity

to government agencies

[GreenStormCloud]

76. Probably = wild eyed guess. N/T

[BlueStreak]

79. Do you have any idea of the scope of that operation?

It isn't a wild-eyed guess. It is a virtual certainty.

[GreenStormCloud]

80. That which can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. N/T

[BlueStreak]

81. Do you understand that Amazon's computing network is one of the top 10

non-governmental installations in the world -- probably more like top 5, and it is all available for lease.

No I cannot show you specific contracts with specific agencies, but it is absurd to dismiss that which is true on its face.

[TBF]

4. I haven't been able to cut myself off yet -

I think it is because Walmart was right in our faces when it came out. Large stores being put in and we saw the small town main streets fall as they went up. Plus it is large and overstimulating (especially for an introvert like myself). Amazon on the other hand is just a website - you look at the prices and don't notice all the other things behind it (horrible labor practices, under-cutting prices, etc).

I know you're right though. It really is all the same behaviors and Bezos is profiting just as much as the Walton family has ...

[Le Taz Hot]

5. Books notwithstanding,

Amazon's prices are, too often, just WAAAYYYY cheaper than brick and mortar stores. There's a made-in-the-USA stock pot I fell in love with but it was at Williams Sonoma for $450.00. Amazon had the SAME pot for $309.00. If it's a few dollars one way or the other, not a problem to support the brick and mortars but when there's THAT much of a difference. Hey, I'm on a budget too.

MaoMart? Never walk into one.

[JoePhilly]

6. An article that complains about something, yet proposes absolutely nothing.

So Amazon is bad. Ok.

Should we ban it?

What's the author's plan?

[LordGlenconner]

56. That's pretty typical

Lots of talk, no real solutions.

[Lurks Often]

8. Amazon isn't going away and retail will continue to shrink

B&N lost me as a customer when I paid $30 for a book that I could have gotten for $16 on Amazon.

Just about any internet only business is going to be able to price products lower because they don't have to pay for the retail store or the employees to staff it. Combine that with the ability to stock and offer far more products then any retail store and people are going to increasingly choose internet shopping. There will still be a place for retail for food, large or bulky items, things people need immediately and those that do not shop on line.

And if you have obscure tastes in music or books, Amazon & iTunes are really the only places that will have what you are looking for.

[millennialmax]

9. Sells pretty much every product known to man at cheap prices and ships it quickly.

When a company comes along that can top that, I'll shop there instead.

[snagglepuss]

41. Are you aware of the despicable working conditions at Amazon warehouses worldwide?

[one_voice]

10. oh, fuck...

I love Amazon.

It's like a crack addiction. Really. The prices are better, you can find American made stuff, I'm a prime member, and I get most of my books*/kindle downloads there. What the hell to do...


*still buy a lot of books second hand.

[Nye Bevan]

11. Amazon is *great* for the environment.

Which generates more emissions?

1. A single UPS truck drives through a town and drops off 30 packages at people's houses.

2. 30 people get into their cars, drive to the mall, circle around the parking lot, find a spot, buy their stuff, and drive home.

Shop online and save the environment!

[kentauros]

35. Indeed!

Amazon is basically all of those independent mail-order businesses rolled into one place.

And then you have all those Mom & Pop small businesses that could never make it at a storefront now making a living selling through Amazon.

And third, you have all those new writers getting their start directly through Amazon, making at least four times what the publishers offer (70% royalty vs. 17.5% at best.)

I don't get everything through Amazon, but the majority of the things I still buy, I buy online (Amazon, Chefs Catalog, King Arthur Flour, et cetera.)

[MineralMan]

12. Well, then...I guess I'll have to toss that Amazon gift card

I got for my birthday. That's too bad, because I've been looking on Amazon for something Made in the USA to buy with it.

[Nine]

14. I hope you're not being serious. (nt)

[MineralMan]

15. Well, of course I'm not.

I'm just taking the OP's conclusion to its logical end. Actually, I'm probably going to spend that gift card this very morning, and buy something I wouldn't otherwise buy for myself.

[Agschmid]

32. Can always mail it to me...

[MineralMan]

33. But I already logged it into my account.

I guess I'm doomed to buy myself something. Oh, well. I'll boycott Amazon later, I guess.

[Agschmid]

34. Okay then I would like this...

My bananas are always bruised!

http://www.amazon.com/Compact-Impact-Banana-Bunker-Color/dp/B000VY8836/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375126069&sr=8-2&keywords=banana+bunker

[MineralMan]

36. Now, those look borderline obscene, and I don't

think they're made in the USA. Bananas come with their own protective wrapper, anyhow. No sale.

[Agschmid]

37. Geez... sorry dad. No fun!

[MineralMan]

38. My Amazon gift card; My rules...

[customerserviceguy]

68. Yeah, those things look like they should be campaigning for mayor in NYC. n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

13. Quit being a Luddite.

Amazon creates more jobs than it kills. Take a look at Amazon. They sell everything. They are able to do that because they allow other businesses to use their site. So a Mom & Pop business in a small town can have a national market if their product is good, and the price is good. Amazon gets a cut for renting them the space, handling the payment, and calculating the shipping and taxes.

Amazon benefits me, the customer. I get lower prices. I don't have to drive all over Dallas shopping. I save gasoline. I get much wider selection. I get to read customer reviews of the product, so I know if it has problems.

Change always produces winners and losers. In the 1950s there were lots of TV repair places. They are all gone now. Self-service gas pumps have killed the tens of thousands of jobs of pumping gas. People my age (67) can easily list many jobs that aren't there anymore, but I don't want to go back to the so-called, "good ole days".

Online purchasing is the wave of the future.

[HiPointDem]

26. no. it doesn't.

[spin]

30. yes. I does! Your turn. (n/t)

[HiPointDem]

39. amazon has under 100K employees to process 93 billion in revenue. Target has over 300K

employees to process 73 billion in revenues.

I know several people who do online sales through amazon. none have ever made over $1000 or so a year doing it. these are not jobs, they're hobbies.

amazon is a net job killer.


Digital technology has brought society many benefits: faster, more efficient ways to share ideas, do business, communicate with government and much, more more. But along with those gains come the losses in jobs where less labor is needed now as more activities get automated.

“The Internet is killing more jobs than it creates,” writes computer scientist Jaron Lanier, in his new book, Who Owns the Future?

Digital technology is shrinking our overall economy rather than expanding it, unlike past technological breakthroughs, says Lanier.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/internet-kills-more-jobs-creates-jaron-lanier-124549081.html

[spin]

42. Wait until robots take over fast food restaurants. You haven't seen anything yet. (n/t)

Robots Could Take Over Fast Food Jobs

By Dan Fastenberg | Posted Jul 17th 2013 @ 8:03AM

In recent months, some fast food workers have been staging walkouts, complaining of low pay and a lack of benefits. But a new trend suggests that they may face competition that doesn't care what hours they work, or what they're paid. Fast food chains in Japan, China and Great Britain have begun piloting the use of robots to cook meals. And while robots have been emerging in recent years as a boon for completing menial tasks like dispensing medicines in hospitals, these fast food robots are capable of preparing full sushi rolls or noodle dishes for Asian food outlets. In many cases, customers complete their orders through a touchscreen, which then alerts the robot how to prepare the meal. No humans needed.

It stands to reason that American fast food companies will adopt the robots at some point. One new fast food robot is the noodle-slicing "Chef Cui" in China, which as The Associated Press reports, costs restaurateurs 30,000 Chinese yuan to buy, or about $2,000. Comparatively, a human noodle chef is paid about $4,700 a year in China, according to the AP.

For Liu Maohu, a noodle restaurant owner in Beijing, the choice of hiring a robot over a human is easy. "The robot chef can slice noodles better than human chefs," he told the AP. "And it is much cheaper than a real human chef."
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/07/17/robots-fast-food-jobs/

In a restaurant with robots doing the cooking and at the counter, I wouldn't have to wonder if someone picked their nose and put a booger in my meal or spit in it.

[sagat]

60. I welcome this change.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/subway-employee-puts-penis-on-bread-frozen-urine_n_3635174.html

[duffyduff]

48. No, it isn't. It's an inferior experience.

n/t

[duffyduff]

51. When you don't have an argument, trash a person as a "Luddite."

Come up with a real argument.

[GreenStormCloud]

67. Read more than just the title.

I posted four paragraphs in the body of the post. Try coming up with a real rebuttal.

[kenny blankenship]

16. Always remember that your quest for the lowest price

is the goad for capital to find the lowest wage. Oh but they're just seeking to maximize profit, it has nothing to do with meeee! BULLSHIT.

People who laugh this story off SUCK, and I would hope if they would actually read it in full they would shut their ugly mouths. Amazon is a SHITTY employer, along with being a massively destructive presence in publishing, and a net destroyer of jobs. And if this -as some posters blithely opine- is the future, then our future is China's present.

[Nye Bevan]

17. Don't you just HATE HATE HATE people who shop on Amazon for things like meat grinders?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1517032&mesg_id=1518897

[kenny blankenship]

19. So? What are you like five years old or something?

So you can just blow off what Walmart does or what Amazon does to workers just because they are pervasive evils? As it happens, old fashioned manual meat grinders are kind of a relic of the past and difficult to find -at any price low or high- without going online. I recall I also looked at Cabelas online inventory - and I don't imagine their practices are any better. By the way, there's also something I need and must buy locally that I can only find at fucking Walmart - such is the power of their exclusive deals with vendors- so I go there a few times a year for it, and buy only that. This fact doesn't change what Amazon is doing to PUBLISHING, nor the shitty things it does to its EMPLOYEES, and to retail in general. If you had bothered to read the article you would have discovered that for starters, Amazon loses money on practically everything and anything. Their pricing structure is inherently, intrinsically that of a enterprise seeking to drive its competitors out of business and to create a monopoly for itself. The stock market keeps it going by approving of the plan to achieve monopoly and bidding up Amazon's share price, otherwise the company would have collapsed. Democrats are supposed to be hostile to business practices and schemes like this.

You think you can escape being implicated in the destruction of labor while still hunting for the lowest price uber alles? Or maybe you just don't give a shit. When you use Amazon to find the lowest price for an item, you are exerting relentless downward pressure on the wages of the people, in whatever country, who make that item. You're also making it impossible for items like that to be made in a first world country where workers are treated like people and not animals. You are IMPLICATED, period, and you should care. If you don't - I got two fine old English words for you, and it ain't "meat grinder".

You cannot escape being implicated in the WALMATIZATION of the world when you use Amazon, or similar. I cannot either. But I don't celebrate Amazon as the shape of the glorious Neoliberal future.

[Nye Bevan]

20. Robert Reich also likes to trash Amazon.

BTW he is selling his latest book on Kindle here;

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Outrage-Expanded-democracy-ebook/dp/B008TSC33W/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1375454243&sr=1-1

[wryter2000]

23. Reich's publisher is selling his book there

Unless he's self-pubbing, it's the publisher's decision.

My books are on sale at Amazon, too. You can't ignore it. If I were as big as Stephen King, I could afford to sell at B&N and indies exclusively. I'm not.

Right now, Amazon is a necessary evil, but I don't have to like the fact.

[RudynJack]

62. The notion

that Amazon loses money on practically everything is just nonsensical.

[kenny blankenship]

63. Actually it's just factual that they lose money.

Amazon is a company that is paid via the stock market for successfully spreading the perception that they will be a monopoly.

Amazon Sells More Than Ever, Loses Money, Declares Victory
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/25/amazon_sells_more_than_ever_loses_money.html

Read it and LEARN SOMETHING.

[RudynJack]

65. nonsense

They lost a very small amount of money last quarter, while investing heavily in new fulfillment centers, expanding cloud computing, new Kindle devices, etc. etc.

All the money they make is poured back into the business. They don't lose money on the things they sell.

[kenny blankenship]

66. I see: losing money is making money, and up is the new down.

Two years of small profits dwindling to losses and the stock is on the charge. Ask yourself why. This business model is known as drive your competition out of business before you go out yourself. It's a monopolist's tactic, and if it is successful you will find everything that was cheap will soon cost you and arm and a leg. But there'll be NOWHERE ELSE TO GO.

[RudynJack]

71. What don't you understand?

They had 60 BILLION in revenue last year. This most recent quarter, they invested quite heavily in growing the business, and thus had a tiny loss.

They are NOT losing money on the items they sell.

If you think they are, then you should stop fretting - they'll certainly be out of business within a year.

[LordGlenconner]

57. Ouch.

And brilliant at the same time. Nothing better than hypocrisy exposed.

[GreenStormCloud]

29. The lower prices help me a lot.

Freestyle Lite diabetic test strips, box of 50, at CVS $75.99
Same thing, box of 100, at Amazon, $61.99

Why should I pay over double the price?

[LordGlenconner]

59. Answer: You shouldn't feel bad or guilty.

[spin]

40. My quest is often for the best item or to find an item I can't buy locally. ...

Often the local big box store doesn't have the highest rated item but Amazon does.

Then there is the stuff I like that is hard to find even in a large city. Matouk's Hot Sauce from Trinidad is such an item. Amazon has it!

I'm sorry but the Big Box stores drove out the local store owners. Now Amazon is taking on the Big Box stores and will definitely be a strong competitor.

As far as your statement that Amazon has been a "massively destructive presence in publishing", I have recently enjoyed a number of books on Amazon that were self published. For example:

Wool (series)

Wool is a series of science fiction novellas (and is also available as a single novel) by American writer Hugh Howey.[1] Film rights to the story have been sold to 20th Century Fox,[2] with director Ridley Scott and Steve Zaillian expressing interest in the film adaptation.[3][4]

Background

Howey first began the series in 2011, initially writing Wool as a stand-alone short story.[5] He published the work through Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing system, choosing to do so due to the freedom of self-publishing. After the series grew in popularity, he began to write more entries for it.[6] Howey began soliciting international rights in 2012; Brazil has been one win.[7] Film rights to the series were sold to 20th Century Fox, with Lionsgate also expressing interest.[8]...emphasis added

Howey recently signed a print-only deal for around $500,000 with Simon & Schuster to distribute Wool to book retailers across the US and Canada. Howey retains full rights to continue distributing Wool online himself.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wool_(series)

I like to be able to find a high quality or a difficult item to find and buy them with a couple of clicks on my computer and have them show up at my door two days later with free shipping. So yes it is about me. I have no desire to drive 36 miles round trip to a Walmart and spend an hour trying to figure out which cheap piece of crap is the better buy and then have to spend another fifteen minutes standing in a long line waiting to check out.

[NMDemDist2]

72. i just started "Wool"

so far so good.

[spin]

73. I found it to be a great series and it should be a good movie. (n/t)

[duffyduff]

49. The identical argument is being made for Amazon that has been made for Wal-Mart.

I fully expect, if we don't wake the hell up, Amazon actually replaces libraries. This has always been the wet dream of libertarians, to replace library taxpayer support with user fees. Amazon will dictate what we can read and what the price will be, if any.

"EBooks" are being shoved down our throats when in fact they are an inferior experience to a real, tangible book. Most people are stupid sheep and many are actually getting rid of their real books and purchasing user fees for downloads.

ALL "eBooks" are are downloads that you have NO ownership of--it's a rental. It is insanity to pay more than a couple of bucks for a download when you can get a real, tangible book in a second-hand store for far less.

[Egnever]

61. Not nearly the same thing

walmart controls everything walmart. There is no option for me to sell my stuff on walmart like there is on Amazon. That makes them entirely different. One drives out the competition the other enables it. That distinction alone makes them completely different.

As far as your ebook comment goes...How in the world do you figure it is a rental? once i buy a book on amazon it is mine for life and should something catastrophic happen and all of my devices are destroyed i can log into my amazon account on a new device and redownload the book any time I want or need to.

Good luck with that if your house burns down taking all your "real" books with it.

No one is shoving anything down my throat I appreciate the convenience of ebooks and being able to read them from any device i have and even being able to pick up right where I left off on my last device.

[mick063]

18. I don't have a problem with any company

that treats their employees well.

I guess I have a problem with Amazon.

[Safetykitten]

21. But I get my stuff cheap! And I am lazy! I MUST HAVE cheapest shit, screw the people that work there

[GreenStormCloud]

28. It must be nice to be rich enough not to worry about prices. N/T

[millennialmax]

31. If you can't afford $20 for a book you can get for $10 at Amazon, you're a cretin!

[wryter2000]

22. I hate Amazon

It destroys everything it can't buy.

Buy your books from Barnes and Noble or from independent bookstores, folks. Amazon sucks.

[DavidDvorkin]

43. Barnes and Noble destroyed independent bookstores

and the careers of many, many writers.

[Nye Bevan]

44. And now independent writers can self-publish through Amazon and earn 70% royalties.

Not a bad deal.

[MineralMan]

46. Indeed they can. And if they're good, and their books become popular,

they can make more than they ever would have from traditional publishers. I'll have a book on Amazon by the end of the year. I've written three others in the past, and got pretty much bupkis from royalties from them. Every sale on Amazon for an e-book is a paycheck.

If this first one works, there will be more books from this author on Amazon. A few thousand readers will make it worthwhile for any book I put there. That's not many readers. Should be easy, with a little social media marketing.

[DavidDvorkin]

47. Yep. And that makes Amazon a friend of writers

For now, anyway. There's no way of knowing what will happen in the future, but for now they are the self-published writer's friend.

[MisterP]

24. isbn.nu searches every bookselling website for the books you want

[zappaman]

25. I love Amazon!

And will continue to buy stuff from them.

[liberal_at_heart]

27. which came first, the chicken or the egg(low prices or low wages)?

and yet the CEOs make more and more and more and more.

[Nye Bevan]

45. Jeff Bezos's annual salary (CEO of Amazon) is $81,840.

http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezoss-salary-is-only-14000-more-than-the-average-facebook-interns-2013-4

[Skeeter Barnes]

54. Shit, he's made so much he doesn't even care what his salary is. He's worth 25 billion.

As Amazon’s founder, Bezos owns almost 87 million shares, or about a 19 percent stake, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The stock surged 45 percent in 2012, and that stake is currently worth about $23.5 billion. Bezos is the world’s 20th-richest person, with a fortune of $25 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.

But yeah, he's a real trooper for somehow making do with that 81k per year salary.

[lynne]

50. Don't care. I love Amazon -

- and will continue to use them until such time as someone comes up with something better.

[tularetom]

52. No it isn't - you can't see stuff like this at Amazon

[xchrom]

53. praise jayzuz for small favors

[progressoid]

69. Gaaaaa!

Eye bleach please!!

[Brigid]

74. You posted that with no warning??

[tridim]

58. It's easy to buy American at Amazon and nearly impossible at Walmart.

[PETRUS]

70. For anyone following along at home

The issue is not whether or not the internet has interesting and valuable properties for communication and distribution.

The issue is also not how Amazon compares to Walmart, or whether or not Amazon and Jeff Bezos or Walmart and the Waltons - or any other corporations or capitalists - are "good" or "bad."

The issue is an economic system that concentrates power and rewards antisocial behavior.

[GreenStormCloud]

77. Amazon spreads power.

Amazon makes self-publishing easier. Before the publishing companies were the gate-keepers on what did and didn't get published. Aspiring writers usually got rejections slips by the dozen until they got their first work published. There are no rejection slips with Amazon.

Amazon enables home businesses to start up on a shoestring. You don't have to have the money to open a storefront. Just start advertising on Amazon.

Customers are able to rate products. So before I buy something, I can be a very well informed consumer. I don't have to buy something in a store and hope it works. Being able to read the customer reviews greatly empowers customers.

Amazon has a far greater selection to choose from. I am not limited to what is in a B&M store. That empowers the customer over the B&M store.

I do not see how empowering the customers, small businesses, and begining writers is antisocial.

[PETRUS]

82. How very funny

Your post here functions as a transparent example of a kind of confusion/misdirection I'm critiquing (incorrectly equating a technological paradigm with a brand name, which only has a chance of squeaking past a careless reader because Amazon is a near-monopoly), but you do not respond in any way to the critique itself.

The article in the OP mentions tax avoidance, predatory pricing, and exploitation of labor - all examples of antisocial behavior typical of capital and practiced by Amazon.

[JanMichael]

78. They are both predatory now. Bow to your masters (Google, EBAY, Amazon, Walmart, ATT, ETC.) nt