History shows Snowden may face tough exile in Russia

[ProSense]

History shows Snowden may face tough exile in Russia

By Alissa de Carbonnel

(Reuters) - U.S. fugitive Edward Snowden seems assured of a warm welcome in Russia and may even achieve celebrity status in his new home, but history suggests he will no longer be master of his fate and a Moscow exile will bring some difficult challenges.

<...>

"Precedents show us that life is hard for defectors from their countries," Lev Korolkov, a former officer in the Soviet KGB security service, told Reuters.

"They experience a huge internal stress that can last for a very long time, sometimes for the rest of their lives - even for those who stayed, such as Kim Philby," he said, referring to one of the British 'Cambridge ring' who spied for the Soviet Union during and after World War Two.

<...>

Snowden is not the first employee of the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) to defect to Moscow...cryptologists William Martin and Bernon Mitchell defected to the Soviet Union during the Cold War in 1960 because of disenchantment with U.S. intelligence gathering methods...Martin later called his choice foolhardy as he became disillusioned with the less than ideal life in the Soviet Union and the relevance of their revelations quickly faded.

- more -

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/02/us-usa-security-snowden-russia-idUSBRE97114O20130802

[Warren Stupidity]

1. You wish. The author seems to be confusing Russia with USSR. Nt.

[ProSense]

4. You think the author of the piece is a "cretin"? n/t

[dipsydoodle]

5. If she is unable to distinguish as mentioned

then yes. She also seems to have problem understanding what plagarism is.

[ProSense]

6. The piece isn't an op-ed. n/t

[ProSense]

3. If that's

"You wish. The author seems to be confusing Russia with USSR. "

...the case, some of the human rights organizations do too. Still, I don't think the piece is conflating the two. The comment appears to be about the current state of Russia.

Cynical subversion of justice in the name of security: Returns to torture in Central Asia
http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/cynical-subversion-justice-name-security-returns-torture-central-asia-2013-

When It Comes To Extraditions, Russia Often Cooperates

by Susan Armitage

Russia so far has refused to extradite former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, portraying this as a principled stand to protect a whistle-blower.

But while the United States and Russia don't see eye to eye over extradition issues (the two countries don't have an extradition treaty), Moscow often cooperates with requests from governments in the former Soviet republics of Central Asia.

The human rights group Amnesty International says Russian authorities have unlawfully returned and sometimes forcibly abducted asylum seekers, sending them back to Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, countries accused of widespread human rights abuses.

Many of the suspects are wanted on charges of belonging to banned Islamist groups or sharing extremist literature, claims that human rights groups say are often based on shoddy evidence.

- more -

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/07/27/205795904/when-it-comes-to-extraditions-russia-often-cooperates

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Well when your op is just full of fail, a complete change of subject is always in order.

The thesis of your op was "Snowden will have a hard time in exile in Russia because Kim Philby had a tough time in the Soviet Union." Try to stay on topic. Hijacking your own thread is weird.

[ProSense]

10. Yes, and it goes on to talk about the current state and Snowden's "usefulness "

Well when your op is just full of fail, a complete change of subject is always in order.

The thesis of your op was "Snowden will have a hard time in exile in Russia because Kim Philby had a tough time in the Soviet Union." Try to stay on topic. Hijacking your own thread is weird.

Maybe you should try reading the entire piece and stop trying to make this personal.

[Mojorabbit]

38. He has a year to decide to stay or to find somewhere else who

will take him. He has umpteen job offers. He has a lawyer looking out for him. There will undoubtedly be stress but I think he will be ok. The concern of the article's author is noted.

[Cha]

13. You're the one who is trying to hijack her thread with your personal insults.

And, you're failing.

[Igel]

11. There is a bit of overlap, don't you think?

Territory. Culture, at least in the former RSFSR. Language.

Even a lot of attitudes.

It's really not American in outlook. The Horde left its mark on the people.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Yes there is, but the overlap is primarily cultural and irrelevant to the thesis.

Unless of course you think, as some do, that the Cold War never ended and that the iron curtain still exists. The thesis is idiotic. This is a different world.

[former9thward]

8. Nice try at spin.

Snowden is not "defecting". He is there on a temporary renewable residence permit. Now that he can visit embassies he can get his proper applications and paperwork to go on to another country. Despite the haters Snowden will do just fine in Russia and any other place he goes. He has outsmarted the U.S. intelligence services and the U.S. Justice department. That's what irritates you.

[Incitatus]

9. Yes, I expect him to be okay wherever he goes.

There are wealthy people in the tech business all over the world that will be happy to give him work. It's not like he gave up spies working in N. Korea or Iran. I don't have a problem with Americans knowing the NSA is spying on them and I think terrorists groups already suspected such activity was taking place. This wasn't a real shocker for some groups of people.

[Whisp]

34. you sure they would be happy to give him work?

when he can't be trusted?

what kind of work, flipping burgers? They do have McShits in Russia too, don't they?

[Mojorabbit]

39. He has already been offered tech jobs. The "he can't be trusted "

meme and so "will not get work" is an invention which the facts are refuting.

[randome]

15. I don't think he really 'outsmarted' anyone but himself.

He ran and hid after saying "I am not here to hide from justice." It doesn't take much smarts to run, does it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[former9thward]

18. Let's see...

Sitting in a jail cell for 30 years or living abroad. Yeah, I think it was smart to run. So did Daniel Ellsberg. He ran too.

[Raine1967]

20. Ellsberg ran?

I am not aware of that. Where did Ellsberg run to?

[former9thward]

21. He went into hiding when the NYT started publishing.

He was in hiding for 13 days until the Supreme court ruled in favor of the Times.

[Raine1967]

23. Oh, ok.

He didn't leave the country....

I think Ellsberg is Heroic. Running to China and then to Russia isn't the same thing as going into hiding. I think we can agree there is a big difference between the two things, right?

[former9thward]

28. Well Ellsberg does not agree.

Daniel Ellsberg, the man who leaked the Pentagon Papers, said on Monday that he supports Edward Snowden's decision to flee the United States.

Ellsberg has sometimes been held up as an example of everything Snowden is not. Former Obama administration speechwriter Jon Favreau, for instance, called Ellsberg a "true whistleblower," unlike Snowden.

Yet Ellsberg has steadfastly sided with Snowden, saying that his detractors are wrong to contrast the two of them and calling Snowden's leaks the most important in American history.



Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did," he wrote. "I don't agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/08/daniel-ellsberg-edward-snowden-asylum_n_3562505.html

[Cha]

26. Yeah, St Snowden is Putin's Puppet now.. that's not outsmarting anyone

but, his own damn self.

It takes a coward to run. One who knows he broke the law but won't take responsibility like a common thief.

Slinging his venom at the USA from China and now behind putin's pants. Like a scared mouse.

[Harmony Blue]

14. Russia is a beautiful country

the only issue I had with the country was the pollution in Moscow. But that is a problem in China, Indonesia, and most of Asia really.

[Number23]

16. Interesting piece. This will come as no surprise to any person with a half-functioning brain

Moving to another country is difficult under the best of circumstances. And Snowden's are far from the best of circumstances and Russia is far from an easy country to emigrate to.

Snowden is in for a long, hard slog. He'd damn sure better be ready for it.

The really idiotic taunts from people here about this "excellent job prospects" are window dressing for a man that has committed crimes in the country of his birth where his family is located. He is knowledgeable of not only the fact that he may never see his family again, but that he is a fugitive, and that large swaths of his countrymen consider him a traitor. That is the truth of the matter.

He is going to have to learn a new language, a new way of life and culture. Even if he moves to Venezuela, it will be the same.

What's really a shame is that he did all of this to release classified information on a program that while incredibly wrong, has been in existence for years, was not illegal, and is supported by both houses of Congress as well as the majority of the American public. If what he shined the light on was something that was actually illegal, I think things would have been completely different for Ed. Some people call this the height of stupidity. I don't know if it's stupid or not, but it's definitely changed his life forever.

[ProSense]

19. Exactly. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

40. The last part of your post is erroneous.

There have been hundreds of posts documenting this and a quick trip to the ACLU's site will verify it. I do agree with will be quite an adjustment to live in another country. I have done it many times and though it is difficult it can also be an incredibly amazing experience.
Peace, Mojo

[Number23]

41. I have no idea what you're trying to say is "erroneous" in my post.

There is nothing even remotely inaccurate about what I've written.

[Cha]

17. It got "67 Recs" on the article's site.. lol

The Cold War is long over but some things do not change. Snowden is a useful propaganda tool for the Kremlin, which often accuses Washington of preaching on human rights abroad what it fails to practice at home.

"He no longer belongs to himself. He is a political personality and a pawn," said Anna Kachkayeva, a prominent media expert.

"He is like a ticking time-bomb. Maybe they will save him up for something and put him on television - or maybe not."

This is what I've been saying.. snowden is putin's Puppet now.

Mahalo for the link, PS

[kentuck]

22. Is it worse than life in prison in America?

I imagine it is all a matter of perspective?

[David Krout]

24. Jail is not stressful

It's fun.

[ProSense]

25. The way his lawyer talks

one has to wonder about the situation in Russia.

An “exhausted” Edward Snowden will have his own choice of accommodation, has no current plans to leave Russia, and still misses his girlfriend, according to his Russian lawyer Anatoly Kucherena.

“Snowden can live in a hotel or rent a flat in Russia,”said Kucherena, who has repeatedly spoken on behalf of Snowden, while his client was trapped in the transit zone of Sheremetyevo airport for over a month. “But the personal safety issue is a very serious one for him."

<...>

Kucherena said that Russia had no plans to prevent Snowden from leaving the country at any moment, saying the whistleblower may even choose to return to the US to face multiple criminal charges. But when asked if Snowden still plans to seek asylum in South America, as appeared to be his original plan, he insisted that Snowden has “no intention to travel abroad as of now”.

Edward Snowden will be entitled to Russian citizenship after spending five years in the country, though the procedure has been speeded up before for high-profile public figures, such as actor Gerard Depardieu.

http://rt.com/news/snowden-russia-kucherena-mills-914/

One gets the impression that someone else is making Snowden's decisions.

[kentuck]

32. There might be a slight chance at being in solitary or...

...tortured in some manner or other if he returns to the US? Maybe even sent to Guantanamo? There is that possibility. Return and take your "medicine" or chance a new life in Russia? Which would you choose??

[GlashFordan]

27. Or not, lol nt

[UTUSN]

29. R#9 & K for, but it won't be like that for HIM because he's SPECIAL!1

And I'll take credit that when this mess first started I posted that his value, the value of the data he's got, is TIME-LIMITED, that the value is diminishing since methods and systems will CHANGE to adjust for the "revelations" and the link in this thread makes that point twice. Hey, why doesn't Reuters pay ME?!1

And as for the quote below, the woman from Wiki is HOT, and can anybody doubt they have leaked, uh I mean LINKED, up by now and that for any "activities he wishes to engage in" that he might be missing, she ought to be an easy compensation, that is until his value to Wiki also progressively diminishes. Ah, the soap opera possibilities: Will she take up ballet?!1 Will the original ballerina be allowed to visit?!1 Will the ballerina's visit turn out to be a break-up, but on whose part, will she be the one to do it to move on to somebody else with a fat check in Hawaii?!1 Will the two stunning women fight over such a strapping specimen like him?!1

"I think he may find Russia less appealing than he might have imagined," said Misha Glenny, a British author on Internet security and eastern Europe.

"Snowden may find that it is very, very difficult for him to be involved in some of the activities he wishes to engage in."

[UTUSN]

30. Wha'd I SAY, what DID I say?!1

*********QUOTE********

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/the_snow_bird_in_leaker_shadow_LPQlLRDuGlGaKjabUlOwxL

[font size=5]WikiLeaks staffer has been Snowden’s constant companion[/font]

By CASSANDRA VINOGRAD
From AP

LONDON — The whole time Edward Snowden has been seeking asylum, WikiLeaks staffer Sarah Harrison has been by his side.

She has emerged as a central, if mysterious, figure in the saga that has taken Snowden across the world in an attempt to evade US espionage charges.

Harrison in just a few years has risen from intern to one of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange’s most trusted lieutenants, but she has earned an even higher profile as Snowden’s guide and adviser. ....



Thursday, WikiLeaks announced that Snowden had left the Moscow airport — under Harrison’s care.

Rarely seen publicly in their weeks hiding out at the airport, that appears unlikely to change now.

“Harrison has remained with Mr. Snowden at all times to protect his safety and security, including during his exit from Hong Kong,” WikiLeaks said in a statement. “They departed from the airport together in a taxi and are headed to a secure, confidential place.”

*************UNQUOTE*************

[kentuck]

33. Interesting...

inside perspective.

[Scurrilous]

31. Boink.

[Aerows]

35. You know who is suffering right now more than Snowden in Russian exile?

The people in the NSA that have to continually justify the things he has released and those that face the ridicule when they go in front of the public to do PR for their work.

I'd be squirming and angry at Edward Snowden, too, when suddenly the public is looking at my black budget and is increasingly asking questions that means I might get my spending reined in. It's never pleasant when the microscope gets turned on any organization, and budgets shrink.

Couldn't happen to a better group of people that throw money away on 5 star hotels with no accountability because few people know what the hell they are actually doing.

[SidDithers]

36. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. As bad as what the Land of the Free is offering him?

A charming, but small, suite in a Federal Penitentiary, interesting neighbors, smiling attendants, gourmet food and the occasional walk in the yard.