Greenwald Mocks NSA ‘Robust Oversight’ - Congress ‘Being Forced To Learn About NSA In Our Reporting'

[kpete]

Glenn Greenwald appeared on This Week With George Stephanopoulos to decry what he describes as the difficulty legislators have been experiencing in gaining details about NSA surveillance programs, telling guest host Martha Raddatz that far from being able to apply strict congressional oversight to the programs, some lawmakers have been getting their information about them from his articles.

“Members from both political parties came to us and showed us all kinds of letters and emails they’ve been exchanging, in which they’re trying to get the most basic information about what the NSA is doing, in spying on American citizens, and what the FISA court has been doing in terms fo declaring some of this illegal, some of it legal,” Greenwald said. “They’ve being blocked from getting it.”

“We keep hearing that there’s all kinds of robust oversight by Congress, and need not worry,” Greenwald continued, but alleged that the lawmakers who have contacted him “have said that they’re being forced to learn about what the NSA is doing from what they learn about in our reporting.”

Greenwald also referenced a secret FISA court opinion that called the expansive reach of the NSA’s data mining programs unconstitutional and illegal. The Guardian journalist said that the FISA court has no objection to releasing the decision, but that the Obama administration is keeping it classified.

“That’s extraordinary, to have a court opinion ruling that our government violated the constitution and the law, and not only can’t we read it, but neither can our representatives in Congress,” Greenwald said.

MORE (plus video):
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greenwald-mocks-robust-oversight-of-nsa-spying-congress-being-forced-to-learn-about-nsa-in-our-reporting/

[sabrina 1]

1. When a country gets to the point where their Congress are treated with such disrespect,

something has gone terribly wrong.

But Congress needs to keep up the pressure now on whoever these morons are who have taken control of the government. They need to join Snowden and Greenwald and all the other whistle blowers and start shining a light on what it going on.

[DirkGently]

2. "An American Senator knows as much about PRISM

and XKeyScore as a troll doll on the dashboard knows about internal combustion."

https://medium.com/geek-empire-1/a1ebd2b4a0e5

[nashville_brook]

5. great read!

[DirkGently]

25. Came highly recommended by a smart DUer I know.

[matthews]

29. Well tell that person thank you from me to. That WAS a great read. nt

[Aerows]

30. Me, as well. n/t

[nashville_brook]

40. yer welcome :)

[DirkGently]

59. Totally blew your cover.

[kpete]

31. i second that

great read!

peace, kp

[KoKo]

53. That was fascinating read...

I didn't mess around with the site much...wasn't much there to tell a viewer what the site was or anything about who wrote it (maybe I missed something).... But, fascinating. Thanks.

[nashville_brook]

56. today was actually the first time i found anything really compelling

guess i'll have to check back more often

[KoKo]

58. Maybe it was a "One Off"...but damn...that was a good read! n/t

[KoKo]

60. Can I take this one out as an OP...or would

Someone Else want to do it. I don't think this post should be here embedded ...I think it needs a Stand Alone Post out on DU. I would do it...but, there may be others who would get better coverage. THIS is an important View...and needs more Exposure.

THIS ALONE from the article needs more exposure,for the YOUNG amongst us...but the rest of the article is just incredible. Reminds me of "Jimmy Breslin's writings in the late 60 and through the 70's early 80's...and the kind of quality that one doesn't see these days from MSM writers:

"And, yeah, by the way, Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, Google et al, they are all the blood brothers of Huawei in China — because they are intelligence assets posing as commercial operations. They are surveillance marketers. They give you free stuff in order to spy on you and pass that info along the value chain. Personal computers can have users, but social media has livestock."

If someone wants to take it out...who has more exposure..please do it. But...I can't let this article languish embedded here and I might just have to do it on my own.

[DirkGently]

70. No objection here. It really is a great read. N/t

[WillyT]

64. Most Excellent Read !!!

Thank You !!!

[kentuck]

3. I don't doubt but that that is true...

However, Senator Chambliss (R-GA) said on Face the Nation that Congressmen could see most of the information, not all, anytime they wanted. He gives the impression that the Intelligence Committees are a special clique and that they are superior to other Congressmen and Senators?

[KoKo]

55. Most of them are "of an age" where they know little about Internet and how

Last edited Sun Aug 4, 2013, 08:17 PM - Edit history (1)

computers, algorithms and most of it works. They think it's the same world they knew...and don't realize how fast computer technology has changed and how much it affects everything they all do. Their ego has some to do with that, also...not WANTING to know.

Until we can get some Computer Literate Congresscritters...they will be behind the learning curve and easily manipulated by what their "Tech Experts" whether Military or Domestic tell them. What is Diane Feinstein...in her 80's? ...and anyone of that age can have no comprehension of what's going on in our Digital/Tech Age and shouldn't even be on the Senate Intelligence Committee. She's still thinking "Cold War and Spies" like James Bond... Don't need those kinds of "Boots on the Ground" Spies much anymore, DIFI..

Most of our House and Senate Intelligence Committee members are so out of touch to the real world going on around them, these days, that it's frightening. Most of us over 50 wouldn't be qualified, either to deal with trying to oversee the NSA Spying.

[jeff47]

4. Sorry, Glen

But if you take a look at what was leaked, you'll note much of it was briefings to Congress. Plus the Obama administration has declassified other briefings to Congress.

Turns out our Congresscritters were more interested in getting back home to fund-raise than their oversight duties. How is it the NSA's job to fix that?

If you are complaining about lack of oversight, the problem is the people conducting that oversight. Not the people being overseen.

[nashville_brook]

6. lerp.

[Aerows]

10. You have heads of Intelligence Beareaus lying to Congress

and then you have Congress saying they don't know because they were lied to. You have Congress members taking votes and not allowing those votes to be made public for national security reasons.

Then you actually have to wonder if the right hand, which is supposed to be monitoring the left hand for purposes of funding has been lied to so they can get funding from the right hand?

"No, no, teacher, none of the kids in the class have been stealing from the cookie jar. I know Simon lied about it when he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, since he is the cookie jar monitor, but you can still trust all of us" said Jonathan with crumbs on his lips.

[nashville_brook]

39. precisely -- were those Snickerdoodles?

[Aerows]

42. Probably

Pound cake and chocolate cream pie. But cookies make it seem more innocent.

[whttevrr]

21. Wait... which lerp?

1. Lerp:
Linear interpolation between two points or rotations
I lerped those quaternions so the object would turn smoothly.


1. Lerp:
(biology), a structure produced by larvae of psyllid insects as a protective cover.


1. Lerp:
(computing), a quasi-acronym for linear interpolation in computing and mathematics.


1. Lerp:
(Software), an advanced software related to Laboratory Information Management System defined as Laboratory Enterprise Resource Planning to include related business objects that support the foundations management of Labs

[nashville_brook]

37. lazy derp. lerp.

[whttevrr]

52. lol

[Aerows]

7. Briefings to Congress

don't actually include telling the truth to Congress, a fact that both Alexander and Clapper drove home. They lied to Congress and could be charged with perjury, but blithely did it. What makes you think they have ever told the truth?

That's the problem with dishonesty. If your lies get found out, you have to wonder what other lies were lies.

Congress has every right to press them to find out what they are lying about, unless you think this is a conspiracy with every single member of the Intelligence committee to lie to the American public. Is that where you want to go?

[noise]

18. I agree to a point

No way are members of Congress victims in this scenario. They have passed boatloads of enabling legislation. Members of Congress are always handy with a fearmongering quote to justify the spying. Greenwald's reporting has exposed both the NSA and the lack of Congressional oversight.

[Aerows]

23. There's the real *BOOM*

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you for making my point, and for making a point that Jeff47 unwittingly made.

[David Krout]

27. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md) and Senator Durbin (D-Mi) pooh-poohed these briefings you love

“This ‘fully briefed’ is something that drives us up the wall,” Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland) told Politico, “because often ‘fully briefed’ means a group of eight leadership; it does not necessarily mean relevant committees.”


Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Illinois) told Politico that members of Congress usually “don’t receive this kind of briefing.”


Lawmakers wouldn’t have known about the programs unless they sat on an intelligence committee, attended special sessions (which haven’t taken place in the last two years) or specifically asked to be briefed–which can only happen if someone else first tips them off about some secret operation.

http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stories/lawmakers-refute-obamas-claim-that-full-congress-knew-about-nsa-program-130612?news=850274

[Aerows]

32. They don't know

but even if they sat on those committees, they'd be lied to, as has already been demonstrated.

There's your real problem - the leadership at both the NSA and the DHS. They directly lie in front of Congress, and it wouldn't matter if it was a Republican or a Democratic Congress, they just lie for funding to continue business as usual, and don't face any consequences.

[Aerows]

49. True, but when the lies are compounded lies for funding... n/t

[Octafish]

8. 'Mocks' is a loaded term.

From the article:

“We keep hearing that there’s all kinds of robust oversight by Congress, and need not worry,” Greenwald continued, but alleged that the lawmakers who have contacted him “have said that they’re being forced to learn about what the NSA is doing from what they learn about in our reporting.”

Likewise the tee vee interview:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greenwald-mocks-robust-oversight-of-nsa-spying-congress-being-forced-to-learn-about-nsa-in-our-reporting/

So, zero mocking. Just reporting. The ones doing the mocking are the ones mocking the Constitution

[nashville_brook]

41. +1

[bahrbearian]

65. Right on, there is no Mocking .

[ProSense]

9. So Greenwald is patting himself on the back?

"Greenwald Mocks NSA ‘Robust Oversight’ - Congress ‘Being Forced To Learn About NSA In Our Reporting'"

Why are members of Congress whining to Greenwald? On one hand he's complaining that members of Congress are being blocked. On the other hand, he's claiming that members of Congress are being blocked by members of Congress.

On June 19, Grayson wrote to the House Intelligence Committee requesting several documents relating to media accounts about the NSA. Included among them were FISA court opinions directing the collection of telephone records for Americans, as well as documents relating to the PRISM program.

But just over four weeks later, the Chairman of the Committee, GOP Rep. Mike Rogers, wrote to Grayson informing him that his requests had been denied by a Committee "voice vote".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023402849

Reid: Senators Have Only Themselves To Blame For Not Knowing About NSA Programs
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/reid-senators-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for

[Aerows]

11. Lying to Congress

is lying to Congress, which Clapper and Alexander are guilty of. Surely you think a Democrat or two should question whether they are being lied to now by the same organizations.

[Rex]

14. I'm surprised they made anyone testify.

Since it seems the marching orders are coming from the NSA to Congress and not the other way around. THAT should worry people, but no doubt will get thrown in the mix in hopes people don't notice.

[Aerows]

15. That's actually why I pointed it out

It's an either or, and neither one of them is good for our nation.

[ProSense]

17. They're turning this into a circus, and

there is no way that charge sticks. First, it was a hearing from March, long before the leak. Secondly, nothing revealed shows any deliberate targeting of Americans and nothing illegal.

Finally, Wyden isn't pushing the charge that Clapper lied. He keeps talking about misleading statements, and it's likely because he knows that the information was classified. He himself refuses to discuss the details.

&quot Sen. Wyden) on Edward Snowden, how the NSA misled Congress, and reining in the massive collection"
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023381665

[Aerows]

19. It's not a circus, Prosense

Unless you want to count the US Public as being the targets of this circus to entertain, but not inform.

Alexander and Clapper lied with evidence before Congress in March. All of this comes pouring out two months later, so it's not clean-up, it is business as usual.

I'm hardly an apologist for Congress, but when someone under oath commits perjury before them, knowing the consequences (but assured they won't face them) and does it anyway to get more funding, I have to think that more than one Congressional committee and committee member was mislead.

There should be consequences for that, and have always been before in our history, who or what is protecting them from it now?

I'm no fan of Congress, but when someone gets up in front of them and lies, there should be consequences. I'd demand it no matter who is President or no matter who I was trying to protect politically because that isn't politics anymore. That's criminal behavior not conducive to a Democratic Republic.

[noise]

20. It reminds me too much of Iraq WMD intelligence

Congressional members who wanted real answers had the means to find them. It's absurd for members of Congress to pretend they have the same access as a member of the public. Of course sometimes getting answers requires rocking the boat which could lead to an election loss. So we get a police state because some assholes want a couple of more terms in the Senate?

[ProSense]

22. No, it's a circus, and egos and opportunism is driving it.

It's turning into kabuki theater.

[Aerows]

26. It is always a circus

and theater when the truth is obfuscated, eradicated and jaded. That isn't what is happening here. It's an open dialogue that happened because it was clear that even Congress was lied to.

People vote for and elect Representatives in their Government. That's what they are there for. The people don't like being lied to before Congress.

[Fumesucker]

57. Turning into kabuki theater?

It's that way 90+% of the time, when the owners want something it happens, stat.

On the other hand when the 99% need something delay is the order of the day.

And the liberals never seem to have *quite* enough clout to get things done on the economic front.

The next election comrade, that is the one when when the proles triumph!

[Life Long Dem]

43. Tell that to Wyden

He disagrees with you.

[Aerows]

44. I'm not disagreeing with you

But I am disagreeing with attempts to burn Wyden down.

[reusrename]

69. Wyden issued a statement a few days following Snowden's disclosure.

The Clapper testimony was in March, the Guardian broke the story in June.

I believe Wyden did not want to be accused of ambushing Clapper, so he furnished Clapper the question before hand.

“One of the most important responsibilities a Senator has is oversight of the intelligence community. This job cannot be done responsibly if Senators aren’t getting straight answers to direct questions. When NSA Director Alexander failed to clarify previous public statements about domestic surveillance, it was necessary to put the question to the Director of National Intelligence. So that he would be prepared to answer, I sent the question to Director Clapper’s office a day in advance. After the hearing was over my staff and I gave his office a chance to amend his answer. Now public hearings are needed to address the recent disclosures and the American people have the right to expect straight answers from the intelligence leadership to the questions asked by their representatives.”

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-statement-responding-to-director-clappers-statements-about-collection-on-americans

Even so, I think Sen. Feinstein and others did accuse him of ambushing the Director.

In any event, the point is that Wyden knew he was being lied to, he knew it would continue, and he knew that there was nothing he could do about it.

Those folks here that still say Snowden should have gone to Wyden instead of the press are living in a fantasy world. Telling Wyden would have accomplished exactly nothing since Wyden already knew and was powerless to do anything.

.

[David Krout]

34. "nothing revealed" shows deliberate targetting

Duh. The recent letter to Senator Wyden said there were violations but no specific violations were "revealed."

How can something that has not been revealed show anything?

[Aerows]

46. When a political opponent has to answer for themself.

Prosense? You've demanded enough from me.

What do you think about this?

[questionseverything]

67. , nothing revealed shows any deliberate targeting of Americans?????????????/

now i see your point...afterall we know the fisa court in a secret ruling decided that relevant meant everything and since Americans are part of everything well it is just an unfortunate accident that every AMERICAN phone call,e mail,private chat,ect are swept up with "everything" else

[gulliver]

12. He's very important. And what he is doing is "reporting."

Greenwald on Greenwald.

[Aerows]

13. When Government officials stand before Congress

and lie, and then Congress wonders why they don't know things that they should have known about departments they fund because of the lies told by said officials, I think that's pretty important, at least to the Congressional members that were lied to, and their constituents.

[David Krout]

33. Senator Merkley (D-Or) sought information and was refused

You falsely claim that all a Congressperson needs to do to know about NSA programs is ask.

"“The administration hasn’t listened at all,” Merkley said. “We’ve asked for the rulings of the FISA court – the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court – about how it interprets the laws Congress passes to be declassified so we can have a conversation with the American people about that.”
Then he said, the administration "has not been willing to release the opinion of the FISA court in how they’re interpreting that language, despite repeated requests from Congress to do so.”

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/304189-dem-senator-disputes-obamas-claim-that-congress-was-briefed-on-nsa-program#ixzz2b20R6QfB
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/304189-dem-senator-disputes-obamas-claim-that-congress-was-briefed-on-nsa-program#ixzz2b1zgPK5u

You also appear to either ignore or not to have read the article about Grayson and Griffith being denied information about these programs. It is imperative that we do good research before we post something.

[Aerows]

35. Congressmembers were refused

information.

[AppleBottom]

16. It is rather laughable.

“That’s extraordinary, to have a court opinion ruling that our government violated the constitution and the law, and not only can’t we read it, but neither can our representatives in Congress,” Greenwald said.

yep all kinds of crazy oversight.

[Aerows]

36. Oversighted

like attempting to figure out if candy was taken from a baby by trying to determine if everyone in the city ate sugar. "There is no conclusive proof that candy was taken from this baby, but there is a lot of proof that Mr. Mitchell on first street has access to a lot of sugar!"

Mr. Mitchell is a baker.

[Luminous Animal]

24. A link to the article that Greenwald wrote about this:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/04/congress-nsa-denied-access

[WillyT]

28. K & R !!!

[Aerows]

48. It's easy to "get it"

but there are many that are dedicated to not "getting it".

[Catherina]

38. Rep. Grayson was threatened w sanctions by House Intel Committee for distributing NSA info published

In early July, Grayson had staffers distribute to House members several slides published by the Guardian about NSA programs as part of Grayson's efforts to trigger debate in Congress. But, according to one staff member, Grayson's office was quickly told by the House Intelligence Committee that those slides were still classified, despite having been published and discussed in the media, and directed Grayson to cease distribution or discussion of those materials in the House, warning that he could face sanctions if he continued.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/04/congress-nsa-denied-access

No shit about what Greenwald said. Rec'd!

[liberal_at_heart]

45. +1

[kpete]

50. a gem

Catherina

peace, kp

[KoKo]

62. Yes...why was that?

More attacks..and you can see the "lines" along the Alignment ideologically.

[idwiyo]

66. K&R

[Aerows]

47. Keeping this and my question to the top. n/t

[WillyT]

51. Let Me Give You A Hand With That...

[Aerows]

54. Thank you

It never hurts to keep asking questions.

[KoKo]

61. Recommend

[Mojorabbit]

63. K and R nt

[neverforget]

68. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren revealed that an annual report provided to Congress

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/17/nsa-surveillance-house-hearing

Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren revealed that an annual report provided to Congress by the government about the phone-records collection, something cited by intelligence officials as an example of their disclosures to Congress, is "less than a single page and not more than eight sentences".