This is a Democrat attacking our postlal service now?

[canoeist52]

http://nhlabornews.com/2013/08/senator-carper-introduces-legislation-to-virtually-end-the-usps/

Democratic Senator Tom Carper has moved the Postal Service one big step closer to extinction this weekend by introducing his new Postal Reform Act S 1486. Mr Carper a long time ally of wealthy corporate interests intends to drive the stake into the heart of the worlds best Postal Service. His bill on many levels closely resembles Congressman Issa’s HR 2748 which passed out of a House committee 10 days ago on a party line vote, with only GOP support.

Carper’s S 1486 will allow the elimination of Saturday delivery in just one year. That itself will put the USPS in a death spiral. Cutting service is clearly not the way to compete in a 21st economy. Cutting 16% of the USPS services to save at most 3% of the budget doesn’t seem to be a rational strategy. Saving any money itself is in question as studies have shown that losing Saturday delivery would reduce mail volume by 7.7% that itself would result in a revenue loss of $5.3 Billion far exceeding the money projected to be saved by cutting a day of delivery.

[madrchsod]

1. dino.....

any democratic senator who links to the washington times to prove a point is`t a democrat. sounds like the boy is working for the 1%

[Scuba]

2. More proof that the Democratic Party has been infiltrated and co-opted by the right.

[a want]

3. Do we really still need Saturday delivery?

Do we really still need Saturday delivery?

The U.S. Post Office was self-sufficient for decades up until a few years ago, but due to a huge drop off in mail usage (because of internet), they simply don't have the volume.

We're $17 trillion in debt. Is it really necessary to have mail delivered on Saturday?

[mattclearing]

7. I thought it was due to pension liability calculations.

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/nationworld/report/110112_congress_postal_service/congress-ties-postal-service-into-knots/

Some say the surplus is actually greater. In 2010, the Postal Service Office of Inspector General (OIG) released a report suggesting that the Postal Service had actually overfunded its obligations to CSRS by $75 billion between the early 1970s and 2009 (the Postal Regulatory Commission suggests the number is lower, but still significant: $50-55 billion). The OPM, designated as the agency that determines the scope of a surplus or deficit, has argued that its lower calculations accurately follow the requirements of the law.

The return of that money, as the OIG and others have pointed out, could be used to fully fund the retiree health benefit fund, pay off all Postal Service debt to the Federal Financing Bank, and give the Service more time to make changes in its operations so that it can continue to be independent.

For subsequent fiscal years, Congress instructed, the pension savings -- estimated to grow to about $5 billion per year by 2006 -- should be temporarily held in escrow. At the same time, the Postal Service was required to put together a plan for utilizing future savings, as well as those held in escrow.

[a want]

9. The bottom line is...

The bottom line is: the P.O. is not self-sufficient. Even if they were "paid back" the fact that people don't use the P.O. as they once did will not go away. There is no magical accounting trick that can make it be self sufficient going forward.

[PADemD]

10. So many reasons to choose USPS over other carriers...

http://www.stamps.com/whitepapers/2013-usps-postage-rate-increase-guide.pdf

see page 3

UPS and Fed-Ex Ground prices are TWICE the USPS rate for a 1-pound package shipped in a flat-rate box.

I don't know many small businesses that would like to pass on those double shipping costs to their customers.

I have received in PA packages shipped by USPS from Colorado in two days. Another company shipped a package to me by Fed-Ex SurePost. Fed-Ex SurePost sends the package around the country to several Fed-Ex hubs and then gives it to the local post office to deliver to your home. It took many days to get to my home, and the package was lost for 5 days. Who needs service like that?

Maybe YOU don't use the post office, but there are many people who still do. I receive my bills by mail and pay by mail. My computer has, in the past, been infected by too many viruses to trust on-line banking.

Just how do you propose that older people, who have no computer, pay their bills?

[Dragonfli]

12. Actually it is self sufficient, but thanks for spreading that Republican

Talking point/outright lie here!

We so seldom see their lies posted as truth here and you are saving me the trouble of reading a post on freeperville.

[a want]

13. What?

What?

It was the post office's idea to stop delivery on Saturday b/c budget issues.

""Our financial condition is urgent," declared Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe. But Congress has voted in the past to bar the idea of eliminating Saturday delivery, and his announcement immediately drew protests from some lawmakers. The plan, which is to take effect in August, also brought vigorous objections from farmers, the letter carriers' union and others.

The Postal Service, which suffered a $15.9 billion loss in the past budget year, said it expected to save $2 billion annually with the Saturday cutback. Mail such as letters and magazines would be affected. Delivery of packages of all sizes would continue six days a week.
"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/06/postal-service-saturday-mail_n_2629373.html

[Dragonfli]

15. That is a Republican manufactured loss as you well know, they are by special law

mandated to cover pensioners health benefits in full for 75 years into the future unlike any other business or Agency in the US. The USPS would be doing quite well were it not for the law designed to bankrupt it.

...For four days at the end of June, retired letter carrier Jamie Partridge and nine other current and former postal workers didn't eat. They were on a hunger strike to protest what the group saw as the biggest threat to the U.S. Postal Service's continued existence: Not e-mail's steady encroachment on snail mail's territory, not a prolonged economic downturn or the growing popularity of corporate shipping services, but government-mandated payments to pre-fund health care benefits for postal retirees -- 75 years into the future. "To call out that Congress was starving the postal service, we were starving ourselves," Partridge says. Private-sector companies -- and even most other branches of the federal government, like, say, the Army -- aren't required to fund their health benefits so far in advance. It's an albatross of a financial burden on the Postal Service...

..."There is red ink -- but the overwhelming share has nothing to do with mail volume, the Internet, or other factors related to the mail," says Fredric Rolando, president of the National Association of Letter Carriers. The retiree health payments account for nearly 80 percent...

I don't know what the Republicans screwing the books with special laws designed to hide profit and add artificial Debt to the Post office they are trying to destroy would do without your patriotic assistance in catapulting their propaganda to free up the markets for their friends in FedEx and UPS
They thank you for your service.

[a want]

16. What is the source of your articles/quotes?

Are you really referencing something from the National Association of Letter Carriers as some sort of unbiased source?

What is your response to the report that the United States Post Office (the postmaster general) initially put forward the plan of eliminating Saturday delivery? The POST OFFICE wants to do to be more efficient.

[Dragonfli]

19. Are you really that uninformed or simply working a Republican talking point (IOW lie)?

This has been common knowledge since the law passed. Everyone that doesn't exclusively watch FOX knows about it!!!

National Association of Letter Carriers=union liar thugs that can't be trusted will not fly with most here. You need to get back to places that think union officials are "obvious liars", in those places you will get the dittos you are looking for with your anti USPS message, Might I suggest freerepublic?

[a want]

22. Good Lord

FYI: I am a democrat. I just don't toe the party line as some do. In fact, I'm considered a liberal on a conservative board I post on. I never watch Fox. But I never watch MSNBC either.

I never suggested the National Association of Letter Carries were thugs. I simply pointed out that they have a conflict of interest. Can you not see that? Of course they want to keep Saturday delivery.

If you can't engage in a legitimate discussion with facts or sources and without resorting to name calling, you probably shouldn't respond at all. You haven't answered any of the legitimate questions I've asked. You've just responded with "you stupid conservative" type rhetoric. I'll try one more time: If the U.S.P.S is suggesting they should stop Saturday delivery to be more efficient why shouldn't they?

[Dragonfli]

37. 1. Being considered a liberal poster on a con board means merely that you're a Moderate R.

2. I am flattered you called me "Lord" but I am not a member of the aristocracy and do not command an army of min wage serfs so please don't insult me with such a title.

3. Our discussion was about the Post office being self sufficient and it is, I even explained to you why and your silly response implied my information was a lie because it came from the workers themselves rather than a single politically appointed "General" with well known corporate views.

4. Steering away from answering my response to your lie that the USPS is not self sufficient (with the added implication that it never will be) by pretending my initial response had to due with Saturday work policies rather than the artificially created huge losses I pointed out is a common posting tactic on conservative boards - first rule of conservative posts is always repeat the lie no matter what, the second is if they refuse to accept the lie change the subject entirely from the initial argument and claim victory.

You are quite amusing, don't get me wrong, but spending time on you arguing a point that is self evident (the red ink creating law was passed and emails as well as Saturday labor is a fart in the wind of an artificially created "on the books" hurricane of losses). You believe the debt is caused by mail carriers working 6 days and emails and refuse to entertain the truth so it is a wate of my time to discuss it with you.

So, go back to your conservative board to play or keep searching here for that gullible liberal you think will buy into your conservative USPS lies, they may just wish to toy with you for a laugh.

[a want]

39. No it is not self sufficient

Since its reorganization into an independent organization, the USPS has become self-sufficient and has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the minor exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters. However, it is currently borrowing money from the U.S. Treasury to pay its deficits.[3] The decline of mail volume, due to the increased usage of email, has forced the postal service to look to other sources of revenue while cutting costs to maintain this financial balance.

[link:http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/United_States_Postal_Service.html|]

But again: at what point in your opinion would postal services need to be cut back. As the use of mail continues to decline are there any cuts in services you think would be appropriate? 20% reduction in volume? 40%? 60%? Is there ever a point where mail services should be reduced?

[Dragonfli]

40. It is borrowing money to pay for ARTIFICIALLY CREATED deficits as many have tried to explain to you

Because the deficits are due to an act of congress designed to create deficits it is indeed self sufficient, no one is as stupid as you feign while using a false deficit to prove a dependency that does not in fact exist. That dispenses with that conservative lie/talking point.

There has been an increase in package deliveries that more than offset the reductions in letters sent (both caused by the internet, the increase due to online sales and the reduction in volume from emails replacing some letters) Your conservative talking point/lie #2 dispensed with.

No go away.

Don't go away mad, just go away like in the song...

[madville]

36. Bipartisan manufactured loss actually

Both parties unanimously voted to pass the act in 2006, the first vote on it was 410-20 and it had 104 Democratic and 52 Republican cosponsors.

The final passage was by overwhelming voice vote in the House and unanimous consent in the Senate with no dissenters.

[Dragonfli]

38. You are right, as another poster pointed out to me, I forgot because it was a Republican bill.

I also still sometimes assume Democrats are less purchased than Republicans, a belief proven more incorrect every day unfortunately.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Yes it is, if it was not forced to pre ay retirement

70 years into the future. Mention any other agency, or private business, forced to do this....

I will be over there waiting for you.

[a want]

28. And what is your point?

Let's say they don't have to do that......now what. They still have a massive decline in mail usage. Therefore, there needs to be a comensurate decline in something - whether it be services, funding, benefits, etc.

Should the funding or services remain the same even though the volume has been cut drastically?

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. If you do not understand the money lost is due to pre funding

I can't help you. So once again, mention any other agency or private business who runs like that...you mean you can't.

You are spreading Daryl Issa talking points.

Who was one of his top bundlers? What can Brown do for you? Who was the other? FedEx.

Care to pick up the pencil and connect the dots?

[Doremus]

35. More rightwing spew. nt

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

8. Not so.

Being forced to fund retirement plans decades in advance is why the PO shows a deficit. The debt we have is mostly due to the war machine.

[Dragonfli]

20. I tried to tell him about that, but he insists it is a lie told by the

National Association of Letter Carriers, I suppose the "pre-pay for 75 years into the future everything including pensioners health plans law" is part of the Union-thug's lie and no such law was ever passed or something .

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

27. I have a feeling

he/she won't be around here long........

[liberal_at_heart]

21. yeah, who care if the poor and small business rely on the Post Office?

Those of us well off enough to use UPS and FedEx don't need the Post Office so let's gut it.

[louis-t]

32. Post office has NOTHING to do with national debt.

Trolls don't get it. Jeez.

[Doremus]

34. Rightwing spew.

The mountain of packages being shipped thru USPS thanks to the meteoric growth of e-commerce has more than offset the losses of first class mail. In fact, before plutocrats started peeling off profits and diverting them to their friends while mucking up as much of the remaining PO as they can to assure its demise, the agency was well in the black, yes, "expensive" pensions and benefits and all.

Once they began a series of price hikes, insane policy changes, regional distribution center closings, and the infamous 75-year funding of the pension plan, we now have an agency teetering on the edge of a crevice.

Of course it's all our fault.

(psst, you might want to do a little research before accepting rightwing lies as truth.)

[B Calm]

43. Yes we need Saturday delivery. The US Postal Service is making a profit!

If we need to cut, look at the pentagon budget!

[Le Taz Hot]

4. But he has a "D" next to his name so it's OK.

Or so I'm told.

[TransitJohn]

11. if you don't support him, you're a Libertarian.

He's a member of team Donkey.

[dlwickham]

5. the Post Office first suggested doing away with Saturday delivery

this isn't some republican plot

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. The post master general did

Not the postal service. The Postmaster General was appointed in the sat administration and is quite pro corporate type...the unions are fighting this.

But's it's ok, this s a democrat proposing this.

[Teamster Jeff]

6. Who needs Republicans anymore? Nt

[Zorra]

14. If all Dems only just used the Post Office, and never used UPS or fedEx,

we could stop all this anti-Postal Service nonsense.

[Dragonfli]

17. If they were allowed to address their Pensioners health care like all other businesses and Fed

agencies - like they did before the Republicans made a law forcing them to pay health care benefits three quarters of a century in advance. 80% of all their red ink would disappear overnight. Or we could apply the same law to private shipping companies and watch them all declare bankruptcy tomorrow, 6 of 1 half dozen of the other, either way would save USPS.

[former9thward]

23. Both parties supported that law.

The vote was unanimous in the Senate and nearly so in the House. The postal union supported it at the time. The pre-funding mandate does not mean anything anyway. The Post Office did not pay the mandate in 2011, 2012 and is not going to pay it this year. What happened as a result? Absolutely nothing.

[Dragonfli]

33. I stand corrected, both parties appear to take money from private shipping corporations

For a moment I forget "we are all Republicans now" in Neo liberal corporatism, for now the only difference between the parties is our party appears to still advocate for sane social issue policies unlike the R's, but that distinction may soon also be sold to their corporate bosses or perhaps large coalitions of fundy money they haven't thought to be on the take from yet.

Thanks for correcting my post.

[Spirochete]

18. Not really

but he plays one on TV...

[Posteritatis]

26. Plenty of Democrats on this forum do; are you surprised senators are? (nt)

[madville]

29. Why is this surprising?

The 2006 prefunding law (USPS Accountability and Enhancement Act iirc)that everyone loves to hate was a bipartisan bill that originally had around 100 Democratic cosponsors and about 50 Republicans. It originally passed with over 400 votes in the House and then the final version passed voice vote in the House and by unanimous consent in the Senate with no dissenters.

The idea that this was a Republican bill jammed through with fierce Democratic opposition is ridiculous, almost everyone on both sides was for it at the time.

[raging moderate]

30. Call your senators. Tell them you don't want this.

I did. Also I called Tom Carper's Office. You can find a list of Senators online and just go down the list.

[senseandsensibility]

41. This is not a Democrat.

He may call himself such, but he's just a Joe Lieberman type sell-out. I sincerely hope that what is left of the Democratic party is fighting this.

[Enthusiast]

42. Tom Carper has got to go! nt

[devils chaplain]

44. Take away the pre-funding nonsense...

And we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. This is a GWB manufactured "crisis."

Ending Saturday delivery will save very little money, if any, if you look at the numbers. There are simply a lot of people who just want USPS dead (not least of all within USPS management itself), and they are chipping away at it when they can.