Do you get the REAL significance of the DEA surveillance story? Wow, just Wow.

[Jackpine Radical]

Here are what I consider the most significant paragraphs in the story:

The unit of the DEA that distributes the information is called the Special Operations Division, or SOD. Two dozen partner agencies comprise the unit, including the FBI, CIA, NSA, Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Homeland Security. It was created in 1994 to combat Latin American drug cartels and has grown from several dozen employees to several hundred.

Today, much of the SOD's work is classified, and officials asked that its precise location in Virginia not be revealed. The documents reviewed by Reuters are marked "Law Enforcement Sensitive," a government categorization that is meant to keep them confidential.

"Remember that the utilization of SOD cannot be revealed or discussed in any investigative function," a document presented to agents reads. The document specifically directs agents to omit the SOD's involvement from investigative reports, affidavits, discussions with prosecutors and courtroom testimony. Agents are instructed to then use "normal investigative techniques to recreate the information provided by SOD."

Now you know why the Feds get so frantic over the topic of legalizing pot. It ain't about the pot. It's about the justification for maintaining the surveillance system. The DEA is a huge parasite on society. It has never reduced drug consumption since the day Nixon signed into law, but it has grown like a cancer. The ubiquity of illegal drugs gives them license to do just about anything, anywhere.

Not only does the DEA get all those helicopters, gunships, (no doubt) drones, and get to keep people's property, even if they were innocent, but they get to share information with the NSA, FBI, etc.

The roots of all these organizations are entangled. Effectively, we don't have separate agencies. The English-speaking world is under the domination of one single surveillance entity--or rather, the sinister forces, private and public, who control that surveillance network.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Yup, we have been warning of the rise of a totalitarian state

Well...it's here...

[sufrommich]

10. No,it's not. The very fact that this information

comes from The Washington Post seems to negate your hyperbole.

[totodeinhere]

15. Just because the news media found out about it doesn't mean that the feds wanted them to. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. If you think Papers please, we are not there yet

albeit that will take a matter of a few short hours.

What we are is very much an inverted totalitarian state. Trust me on this, I grew under one, this is an improved model of that.

[sufrommich]

22. Pure Alex Jones type hyperbole.

Unfortunately,not an unusual practice here lately.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. I guess those political scientists who have described inverted totalitarianism

as early as 2006, are Alex Jones accolytes.

I prefer to live in the reality we are given, not in myth.

You might want to read this...

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverted-Totalitarianism/dp/069114589X

[Progressive dog]

129. As early as 2006, wow, would that be like the Egyptians? nt

Something called "inverted totalitarianism" has to be true. That's why I no longer express my opinions on internet boards, they are coming for me because they got my metadata.

[JDPriestly]

50. I hear snoring. Is someone sleeping here? zzzzzzzzzz

It's a lovely, soothing sound.

[sabrina 1]

103. Why don't you address the parts of the OP that you don't agree with? I remember back when

Bush was occupying the WH, this 'Alex Jones' stuff as you call it (how do people KNOW so much about this guy btw?) was what most Democrats KNEW and they were RIGHT, thanks to another Whistle Blower, we found out.

Instead of just saying 'no, this isn't true' how about explaining why you believe it isn't true?

[blackspade]

117. Making Alex Jones references constantly in a progressive forum

directed at progressive members is totally uncalled for.

It's a right wing method of stifling a conversation.
I honestly don't understand the constant Alex Jones references anyway.
He is part of the lunatic fringe that no one pays attention to accept for RW lunatics and apparently 'Democratic' authoritarians.

[uponit7771]

137. Not if they people keep referring to AJ type sources

[blackspade]

139. Like Reuters?

Nice try.

And what exactly is an AJ 'type' source?
Be specific, otherwise you are just dishonestly conflating legitimate progressive criticism with a wingnut in an effort to stifle a discussion.

[uponit7771]

140. Alex Jones, and I don't think some on the left want CONSTRUCTIVE criticism just bitching and fudr

[blackspade]

141. You do realize that you are on a left wing website?

And you have failed to provide specific 'types.'
Alex Jones is not a type. He is a RW lunatic with no credibility.
Why anyone on Democratic Underground continues to prop him up as a tool for comparison with critics of the current administration is beyond me.
It shows the weakness of their arguments and lack skill in the conveyance of ideas.

[Jackpine Radical]

23. "Papers please?" Sorry Nadin--

That's so…20th Century. Whadda they need papers for? They know where your phone is, where your car is, where your credit cards are (and have been), and they got a video of you buying bad wine down at the bottle shop.

Soon they will be installing your tracking microchip.

[totodeinhere]

30. And tattooing "666" on your wrist? Or will they embed a "666" chip under your skin? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. I got my tracking device on me... I am a good citizen

[Coyotl]

70. How did you find out you were chipped?

Most people have no clue.

[carla]

75. It's called

a cellphone.

[Coyotl]

81. Chip yourself and pay for it too!

Every month

[truedelphi]

118. And with all the automation now that we are in the totally techie 21st Century,

if they don't like you, they can turn on your microwave, or oven burners, cause your fire protection sprinklers to go off, lock down (or drive) your car remotely, etc.

[awoke_in_2003]

44. I have witnessed...

DUI traffic checkpoints here. That is about as close to "papers please" as you can get.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Alas while true, that is not what our friend means

He means the Nazis getting on trains and asking for papers (TSA could be there soon). He means cops stopping you at random, not at checkpoints, and doing that... like the SS and the NKVD and the Stasi used to do...

But we could be there in a matter of hours. It is truly turn key... where we are right now.

But hey, it is alex jones to talk of inverted totalitarianism, and not political science, cause we both know none in academia has raised any warnings of where we are going, none

[awoke_in_2003]

48. Yeah, someone chastised me...

about bringing up the out of control surveillance, saying we cannot be compared to Russia. My response was "exactly how far do we let this go before we do something about it?". Yeah, we aren't at Nazi or Soviet levels of intrusion- yet.

[gtar100]

56. No, it's our own American brand of intrusion.

Most people will be in denial because it's not *exactly like* Soviet or Nazi secret police. It's American style and all too comfortably familiar to raise suspicions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. It has far more in common with the

total system under the PRI in the 1970s, in fact it is perfected. But Americans are fully unfamiliar with that.

[awoke_in_2003]

78. Americans are too fat, dumb, and lazy...

as long as they have their quarter pounders and "reality" TV they don't care.

[RKP5637]

92. I walk in a forest of dummies! Maybe I'm arrogant, but damn, sometimes

I look around me and wonder WTF ... so many are too fat, dumb, and lazy... as someones sig line says, some days it's not worth chewing through the shackles.

[awoke_in_2003]

95. I live in Texas...

I feel your pain.

[Common Sense Party]

143. That would be a great 2014 campaign slogan: "You all are too fat, dumb, and lazy. You're a forest of

dummies!"

"Live and let live", eh?

[RKP5637]

147. LOL!

[RKP5637]

89. Those not seeing where we are going surely can't read the road signs IMO and/or

do not understand massive database architecture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Massive Dbase Architecture....

That gives me shivers...since I do

[RKP5637]

96. And, think of that with an algorithm of predictive behavior analysis run against

that massive data ... right or wrong, found guilty with no act committed. ... it just conjures up horrific scenarios in my mind. Some people say, well, they never do nothing wrong, but they are forgetting that is a relative statement judged by TPTB at a particular point in time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Not only that

We get false negatives on these things. The AI is far from 100% foolproof

[RKP5637]

99. It's like a real life Stephen King novel in the makings ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. More like Clancy

Or Brown, but yes

[Illegal]

160. It is no secret

'getting on trains and asking for papers'?

it is not necessary. Why do you continue to expect the condition to look as it did when technology had no role? IT IS HERE. You can not open a bank account unless you are ID'd, you can not buy groceries and 'save money' unless you are swipe ID'd, you can not ride a bus, a train an airplane unless you are ID'd, it is not required that you commit a crime to be ID'd, simply walking will do. we are there. You are in their database, and the lens has captured you. smile. pre crime has been working for some time now. If you operate a server that someone else uses illegally in the states eyes... you are guilty, and hidden from your lawyer. we are there.

most of us will conduct ourselves within the parameters laid out by the government... without question. We will watch from the curb as shock and intimidation, fear and compliance become the knee jerk reaction. Just look around you, we no longer trust our neighbors assessment of the constitution and what it was.

You are paralyzed by the fear they've been serving in large portion since 9/11.

It is all overt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. I have to say it, you funny

Me paralyzed by fear? Now that is snort worthy.

Please, re-read the exchanges

[bvar22]

84. "Papers Please"!

Check Points on roads 100 (plus) miles inland from the Mexican Border in Texas and Arizona.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I know, I go through at least two regularly

But it is not close to what that poster is thinking.

We have three checkpoints in SD county alone from top of head, east of the Tecate border entry on SR 94....about the same parallel on I-8 W, and actually I forgot the one north of Murrieta in Riverside on 15n and of course, San Onofre on 5N

[mrdmk]

106. The one on the 15 North is at the San Diego/Riverside county line

is more or less in Rainbow, California. It is a bitch if live in East Fallbrook and need to do your grocery shopping in Temecula.

[Bandit]

21. What good is having information when it can not be used?

Do you honestly think this Government spying is going to just stop?

[Jackpine Radical]

28. I'm a little confused--Do you mean "what good is OUR having this information…?"

And which information? The knowledge of the existence and extent of the surveillance systems, or their actual content?

If you mean the former, you're foreclosing on the possibility of our doing anything. Effective action always has to begin with an awareness of the problem.

If you mean the latter, this sort of government information has a multitude of uses in controlling the population.

Suppose you do something quite legal that happens to offend the Government. Like, maybe write an exposé piece. They then search their database for any dirt they can find on you, and maybe even for things that they can twist into false negative information. They then use this to either tarnish or blackmail you.

Note that they didn't intrude on or examine your stored data until youi gave them reason to. They don't have to read every piece of data. It's enough just to have it in searchable form. I bet their voice recognition software is a helluva lot better than Siri.

[Uncle Joe]

43. Or someone in your social network to bear false witness against you.

Suppose you do something quite legal that happens to offend the Government. Like, maybe write an exposé piece. They then search their database for any dirt they can find on you, and maybe even for things that they can twist into false negative information. They then use this to either tarnish or blackmail you.

With the surveillance state in place they have access to all your family, friends, business associates and even casual acquaintances.

[JDPriestly]

51. That is exactly how it has worked in the past.

[truedelphi]

125. And apparently whatever ridiculous programs our Congress critters

Want to have passed - well, all they need to do is get them declared a matter of national security, and then the programs don't ever see the light of day. That way we won't have to worry our little heads about whether the program was really needed or was it simply yet another way for some ig at a Trough to get some easy money.

Unless of course, some whistle blower attempts to get the word out. But then, that person will be seen as breaking the law.

[BlueManFan]

138. Glenn Greenwald Is Gay

That's why he doesn't mind taking a huge dump on America. Michael Hastings used drugs. That's why he crashed his car into a palm tree at 100 mph. Snowdon's girlfriend is a pole dancer. That's a hooker with pasties on. Any pattern emerging here folks?

[Jackpine Radical]

149. Elliott Spitzer. Scott Ritter.

It don't pay to cross Da Man.

[BlueManFan]

152. WHo Can Forget Valerie Plame and Joe WIlson

[Nay]

27. Uh, not true. This is a different type of totalitarianism, one that was alluded to in "Brave New

World." IOW, they don't care if you know exactly what they're doing, because 1) they'll make sure society's cultural norms will reflect that surveillance is just ducky; 2) you'll get rewards for being a good little citizen; and, when all else fails, 3) "you don't like it? Well, what the fuck are YOU gonna do about it?" as the drone circles above your roof line.

As Frank Zappa said: "“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

In our case, it's not that the illusion is too expensive to maintain -- it's that with the vastly superior power of the surveillance state, it is no longer necessary to maintain the illusion. Besides, it's more pleasurable for the PWB to see us helpless and upset; it is better than more money. It's fun for them to grind us into the dirt, and doubly fun to do that to helpless people who know what's happening to them. It's the old movie trope -- it's not enough to defeat an enemy, you have to humiliate him, too, for that good old testosterone rush.

[awoke_in_2003]

45. Like pissing on the people you have killed...

which has happened in Afghanistan.

[witchgman]

67. I miss Frank

Nay; you are so right. I couldn't have said it better. The people who need to worry are the ones in any position of power below the big TPTB. Everyone will be scratching and clawing to preserve what they can for themselves. Animal Farm I think. Goddess help us all.

[kardonb]

83. no , its not

you cannot appease the "aliens are coming " crowd . They will never be satisfied until they have torn down every safety-net we have .

[villager]

104. It's apologist hyperbole -- "We have nothing to worry about! Trust the MIC in all things!"

--that I worry about more.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. Really? So no problem that NSA "terror fighting" data is being used to arrest people for smoking pot

No problem with that at all, huh? Hunky fucking dory.

[leftstreet]

2. Follow the money

This security state shit must be costing a fortune

DURec

[ProSense]

5. The piece mentions

"This security state shit must be costing a fortune "

...a budget

Wiretap tips forwarded by the SOD usually come from foreign governments, U.S. intelligence agencies or court-authorized domestic phone recordings. Because warrantless eavesdropping on Americans is illegal, tips from intelligence agencies are generally not forwarded to the SOD until a caller's citizenship can be verified...Since its inception, the SOD's mandate has expanded to include narco-terrorism, organized crime and gangs. A DEA spokesman declined to comment on the unit's annual budget. A recent LinkedIn posting on the personal page of a senior SOD official estimated it to be $125 million.

Reuters: How DEA program differs from recent NSA revelations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023407769

[Jackpine Radical]

64. But many of the collaborating entities have off-the-books black budgets.

They can finance any damn thing they want to.

Anyway, $125 mil is a LOT of money for a data coordination organization.

[truedelphi]

159. Yet another thing that is so disturbing.

The Bigger Players in congress and in the Military/Surveillance Community can get any program they want to up and running. And since that type of program is always labelled "Top Secret," we in the public will just have to "trust them" that it is all about our real needs for security.

[blackspade]

121. And your point is what?

You underscore the massive expense of this program and then link to one of your own threads.
Typical.

[Dawson Leery]

3. Defund the DHS and DEA.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/08/05/more-surveillance-abuse-exposed-special-dea-unit-is-spying-on-americans-and-covering-it-up/

[Catherina]

4. DEA admitted pursuing domestic cases based on tips from informants that turned out 2b NSA intercepts

Then there's a press release crowing about the work an NSA employee did on Kevin Mitnick http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023407784


Tip of the old iceberg.

Rec'd

[Harmony Blue]

6. The Drug War and War and Terror are

used as a means to intertwine these agencies.

Not shocked at all.

[Myrina]

7. ^^ this ^^

n/t

[G_j]

9. yep

tis the truth

[AnotherMcIntosh]

8. It is illogical to think that the Republicans can filibuster but Senate Democrats cannot filibuster

to stop this.

[awoke_in_2003]

46. Because when dems are the minority...

they just cannot stop those evil pubs. And when dems are in the majority they just cannot stop those evil pubs.

[dorkulon]

52. It's almost as if they're just sophisticated dive artists.

Well, yeah, it actually is like that.

[awoke_in_2003]

54. Good analogy...

seeing that the Senate Majority Leader is a boxer. I wonder how many dives he took.

[99th_Monkey]

11. "Hiring 1/2 the citizens to enslave the other 1/2"

This is an old story, as this quote is from 19th Century RR baron
Jay Gould, which he said in relation to hiring goons to break
the union.

This scam must be called out for what it is : a cancer on our
body politic.

END the US Surveillance & Security State NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[truedelphi]

119. Share your sentiments and admire yr enthusiasm. n/t

[lunatica]

12. It makes sense

and it's the only thing that makes sense.

[ProSense]

13. About the Reuters DEA Special Operations Division Story

About the Reuters DEA Special Operations Division Story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023408152

Information is good.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. I'm waiting for someone to get busted for saying online that they smoked pot in the past.

[totodeinhere]

16. I don't think it's a crime to admit to having smoked pot in the past.

They would have to catch them in possession of it or get a positive urine test result.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Ever hear of "throwing the book at you"?

They could call it "a confession of felonious activity".

[totodeinhere]

29. Well in that case they should arrest President Obama and millions of others.

I guess they'd have to wait until Obama leaves office before arresting him. And they would arrest Bill Clinton too. He said he didn't inhale but he had to have had possession of some. And of course I'd be in the slammer too.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. Maybe we should start arresting the cops for disturbing the peace.

[HiPointDem]

112. their class doesn't go to jail for pot.

[Jackpine Radical]

131. Nor for cocaine, nor for a whole lot of other things

that would put the rest of us away for a looooooong time.

I don't particularly mean Obama--just anyone in the .0001%.

[Jackpine Radical]

20. Not some of the cops I know.

If they can't catch ya, they'll be happy to plant a little for ya.

And how accurate do you think those overworked, understaffed & underpaid crime labs are? Think they might not find it good for business to tell their customers what they want to hear? Why bother with the tests?

Who's gonna complain?

The DA wants to hear it's pot, and the Public Defender doesn't have the funding to hire an expert to discover and testify that it's chamomile tea.

[totodeinhere]

25. Well if they plant it on you then that's a different matter. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

69. That's the plan.

Certainly if they can't do it yet, they will. Right now they're working on identifying everyone who currently smokes pot, and then clearing actual violent criminals out of prison so there will be room to incarcerate all, say, 70 Million of them.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

72. Some of them dream of "Punishment Park"....

[Warren DeMontague]

76. The third "P" being, of course

"Profit" $$$

[Mnemosyne]

109. Or possibly use that info to search their homes under 'probable cause'.

Could a bad urine test be used to give them probable cause?

I don't trust them with all this info, not one iota.

I need to go to sleep.

[factsarenotfair]

17. So, it looks like we have to have legalization instead of just medical marijuana

to regain our freedom.

[Puzzledtraveller]

24. yap

I get it. And this transcends party politics, more evidence that this is how it's been done and is being done.

[TRoN33]

26. Oh yes NSA does have its own RQ-1A non-armed Predator drones

and using them to fly over U.S. without us noticing it at all. Some rumors has it that technologies in NSA's drones are far more superior than air force and CIA so they can justify its use to intercept our communications and use its advanced optical cameras to look much closer into our houses and our lands without warranties. NSA even can use the drones for DEA's operations against non-violent drug offenders while ignoring much more obviously violent drug offenders. Their reasons? Its because non-violent drug offenders outnumbered violent ones by well over 200-1 ratio.

I once got caught with less than quarter of marijuana and I was fortunately enough to get let go without slap on the wrist. Now NSA can try and come charge me with that 9 years old less-than-misdemeanor after reading this.

[1-Old-Man]

32. It is quite safe to assume that no existing technology is unavailable to the NSA

It is becoming amazing to me just how many people think the NSA simply could not do this or that because of what they see as technological limitations. They are as naive as those who think that some $99.95 encryption software they picked up at Best Buy is somehow going to protect them from the Agency that routinely breaks the encryption systems used by virtually every foreign Government. And on top of that does anyone think there is some super duper new spy tool that the NSA doesn't know about, can't afford, or for any reason does not have the ability to procure?

[VanillaRhapsody]

108. +1000

I fail to see what they even think is the end game...
As I said all along....there is no privacy when it comes to the Internet. Even if they could get 100% of the govt to vote these spying programs nusable....they will just make new one lickity split...give it a new name....and go right back to accessing the data....cause the data is persistent.

[eilen]

39. That is so Hunger Games..... NSA domestic drones.

A couple years ago, my son dropped by his friend's (lives in the neighborhood, they went to h.s. together) house one day and his friend's girlfriend sent them to the store. On the way to the store his friend gets pulled over and the police find some old roaches in his ashtray and my son gets arrested for possession. $500 attorney fees (that is with a discount because I used to work for him) and 12 hours community service before court date and he gets the charges conditionally dropped so long as his nose stays clean for the next year. That kept him out of Occupy. He was scared he would get arrested and have those other charges renewed. Turns out the police had been surveilling his friend d/t some information that he was selling pot.

[suffragette]

31. "Recreate the information"

Convenient way to not have to address any information that might have been sketchy or procured illegally and not to need to identify informants/accusers whose info and actions may not stand up to scrutiny.

[Hubert Flottz]

34. Or to cover up the fact that the new NSA information dragnet is...

even aiming their drones and their information screening at the casual American pot smoker/"terraist."

Run by Mister BIG?

[suffragette]

110. They have the budget and the technology. Ethics, conscience and accountability -not so much

And we are all asked to sacrifice genuine security: food security, health security, retirement security, etc. to keep feeding the funds into this faux security apparatus.

[dougolat]

124. Exactly! ...nt

[hootinholler]

40. Or that there was no warrant

Isn't this normally called framing?

[suffragette]

49. Framing, yes it does sound like that. And it looks like informants and nations profit tremendously,

Which gives them incentive to frame people or organizations, especially if they get a double bonus of getting someone pesky out of the way. This combination of surveillance, subterfuge and big profit is ripe for abuse.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2087220-2,00.html
The arrests and prosecutions do not come cheap. Among the expenses the government has incurred in these investigations is compensation for informants. One DEA informant, Patrick "Paddy" McKay, a former pilot with the South African mercenary company Executive Outcomes said he has received $450,000 from the government since 2005. "When I first saw these cases, I found it hard to believe that all these resources were being expended," Merer says.

[leveymg]

41. Yes, that's the interesting part. SOP for SOD?

You have to wonder what other evidence and incidents the feds "recreate."

[suffragette]

73. Yes, and how far those recreations go.

Looks like they also get to cherry pick jurisdictions through this process.

Pretty much a recipe to subvert constitutional protections and the legal system.

[bobthedrummer]

153. ex post facto-haha- kick.

[Hubert Flottz]

33. What it all really adds up to is...

We're fucked and our own government is the fucker.

[truedelphi]

123. yeah, I know. Sigh. n/t

[Zorra]

37. Factor in the tens of thousands of cops and prison guards

the 1% needs to keep on our payroll, in their service, in order to keep us under control and keep them safe from democracy.

One Marijuana Arrest Occurs Every 42 Seconds In U.S.: FBI Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/one-marijuana-arrest-occu_n_2041236.html

With just over one week before voters in Colorado, Oregon and Washington states will decide whether or not to legalize and regulate marijuana for adult use, the FBI released a startling new report revealing that police in the U.S. arrest someone for marijuana every 42 seconds.

According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting data, there were a total of 1.5 million drug arrests made nationwide in 2011, and out of those arrests, about 750,000 were for marijuana (just under half, 49.5 percent) -- that's one marijuana arrest every 42 seconds and one drug arrest every 21 seconds in the U.S.

And although those numbers are down slightly from 2010, members of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) -- a group of law enforcement officials who are advocating for an end to marijuana prohibition -- pointed to the figures as yet another sign that the nation's War on Drugs is failing.

"Even excluding the costs involved for later trying and then imprisoning these people, taxpayers are spending between one and a half to three billion dollars a year just on the police and court time involved in making these arrests," Neill Franklin, a retired Baltimore narcotics cop who now heads LEAP, said in a statement. "That’s a lot of money to spend for a practice that four decades of unsuccessful policies have proved does nothing to reduce the consumption of drugs. Three states have measures on the ballot that would take the first step in ending this failed war by legalizing, regulating and taxing marijuana. I hope they take this opportunity to guide the nation to a more sensible approach to drug use.”

Prison Stocks: What Happens When Marijuana Is Legalized?

[ChiciB1]

57. Question... I've Heard Of Motley Fool Before, BUT

why should I enter my email address to get more information? I'm beginning to believe things I don't want to believe. Actually, I think I feel more fear about what has been, is or will be happening at a faster pace than I thought possible.

I'm not all that tech savvy, but at my age I might know a little more than some others my age. WE are the Boomers and some are even older. We are aging, many of us find certain technological devices useful in our daily lives but keeping up is getting confusing and overwhelming.

Recently we had to buy a new TV and ended up buying a "smart" one. Going through ALL the instructions and learning about everything it offered took me some time to digest. Plus, I don't care if I have all of it. I have my old PC, a Mac Book and now a TV that will "sync" to both. And if I want to use everything offered by the new TV, it seems everything comes with an additional cost! I feel I'm already paying way too much for my DISH service, but then some of that is our fault. Back when we had it installed my husband just said we should get everything they offered! He watches TV and lots of sports. That was back in 2000. The price has gone up a lot over the years! Our problem! Just sayin'.

Now obviously all my information is stored somewhere and I barely feel like looking out of my window. Each time I give out my email address I suppose it's something else added the storage pile!

Am I living a real live version of The Body Snatchers? A very long time ago, when I was very, very little. my father ran the projector at a movie theater and I would go with him and get to see free movies. I actually saw the first production of "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers" with Donald Sutherland and it scared me so much that when the remake came out I couldn't watch it. I was THAT scared, gospel truth!

Long tirade about just a little of what I'm feeling, but again... WHY should I enter my email address to find out MORE? I'm even worried about posting here at DU these days!

[Zorra]

65. LOL! You'll never believe this, but just as I finished reading your post,

a screw came out of the cooling vent in the ceiling above me, and the vent is now just hanging there by one screw!


I'm not afraid. I refuse to let anyone do that to me. I have nothing to hide, and they already know everything about me, so they know I'm not any kind of violent threat.

My priority right now is to do whatever I can to change things for the better so that my kids and grandkids can live reasonably free lives in some reasonable semblance of a democracy. A big part of that change would be getting corporations and corporate controlled government out of my asshole and keeping it out of theirs.

[ChiciB1]

74. And I've Spent Many Years In The Trenches

myself. That was a funny coincidence! My screws are still screwed in for now.

I've always been the one in my family who is the political activist. The one who protested in D.C., went to council and commissioner meetings, volunteered in many, many elections... and all because I felt I should make things better for my kids and their future. My most recent foray was with the Occupy movement which vanished pretty quickly here in my very red county. And while there were some younger kids and adults, there were more people who were closer to my age. I was disappointed that there weren't more of the younger generation who were willing to stand with us.

I have a daughter and son who also have children. My one grandson is going to FSU and between my kids and grand kids, I got a different perspective on what they feel is protest. I do want them to fight back, but I'm not all that confident about what can really be done. I do know that marching and/or protest here isn't very effective here. I still try to be helpful in ways that I can, but not like I once did. I don't feel much hope, but as long as there are people like you, then perhaps things will change.

But the changes I've seen these past 20 years kind of look like we're losing more fights than we're winning. But then I do live in Florida, so that may be more telling as to why I feel this way.

Get that screw back up there!

[Zorra]

80. Nah, similar story, I live in AZ and I feel the same way.

I make it a point to never sell out or stop trying until I succeed, or die.

And I ain't died yet.

[ChiciB1]

88. Onward...

Good to see people still fighting. I'm to the left of most people and get told constantly that "we" don't exist anymore. Plus, I'm so very, very upset with the all the WIMPY Democrats who actually vote with Repukes!

When Elizabeth Warren got elected I was elated. We need so many more of her. There's Bernie, Alan Grayson and a handful of others who I feel have fire in their belly. I talk politics and what is happening in this country to almost everyone I know. Most ask me if I have any other interests in my life, or either tell me I NEED to "get a life!" Depressing!

But I am a political addict and I stay connected. Just don't like the landscape these days and can't seem to get others to focus on the BIG ELEPHANT in the room. But, I do admire your spirit.

[truedelphi]

120. Neh Neh Neh Heh! that screw is just the beginning.

And if you want it restored to its proper position, you better start naming names and giving up emails!

[TBF]

145. Don't forget the prison labor -

I think that is a bigger piece of the puzzle than many may realize.

What is not to like for a fascist state - huge surveillance using the excuses of drugs'n'terra ... for-PROFIT prisons, cheapo prison labor, keeping everyone in line ...

Jackpine Radical is on to something here.

[90-percent]

42. The national Police/Security State has already arrived

The infrastructure for our current police state was aggressively built up after the convenient excuse of 9-11.

Just because storm troopers are not hauling away mass quantities of us 99%'ers in the middle of the night doesn't mean that day will not be soon upon us.

Pay close attention to those American citizens already being imprisoned for their politics. Don Seigalmann, JOhn Kirauco, Manning, etc.

Look at the military responses to Occupy and other protests. Look at the militarization of our police force. Look at the nullification of many of our Constitutional Rights.

Anybody that seriously gets on the wrong side of our government is really asking for their own country to ruin their lives. Just look at who gets our maze of laws selectively enforced on them these days

-90% Jimmy

ps - thanks above for the zappa bricks in the theater quote. Frank is my hero!

[Rex]

53. Sad ain't it? But they do it so they can make a paycheck.

the DEA and the DHS are a huge waste of taxpayer money.

[Fire Walk With Me]

55. Prison Labor Booms As Unemployment Remains High; Companies Reap Benefits

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/prison-labor_n_2272036.html

[jtuck004]

59. "normal investigative techniques to recreate the information provided by SOD." < in other words,

their methods are illegal, and would not survive scrutiny in a court of law. So they sneak around like the scumbags they are, on taxpayer money, spying and cheating people, pissing on their constitution, and, apparently with a straight face, enlist others in a criminal conspiracy to create evidence that was obtained illegally.

Teachers ought to lead kids in a big round of laughter and hurling spitballs at their flag, instead of singing. It would be perfect training for this.

[creeksneakers2]

101. Its perjury

Everybody involved ought to be prosecuted. The public should demand it.

[Jackpine Radical]

133. Prosecution witnesses lie all the time.

I've even had a cop brag to me: "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and whatever it takes to convict the sonovabitch."

When's the last time you heard of a prosecution witness catching a perjury charge? Prosecutors don't prosecute their tools.

[truedelphi]

122. Teachers? School Kids? Why, in another five years, we won't need any

Stinkin' teachers. Or any schools, for that matter.

Our young'uns can simply sign up for Spy School 101 and start on spying.

I mean, how much education would it take for a young'un to snitch on the neighbors for not having the flag pins on their lapel, or refusing to watch only Gubmint Approved TV stations 24/7.

Yep, yep, it's all good. A lot of those leading us gently into this Good Night of Surveillance certainly understand how education was a Twentieth Century idea, and now that it is Spy vs Spy, better to put the money into PRISM, SCHMISM, and last but not least, PRISON for them that won't adapt!

And as far as I can tell, no one needs an education if they are gonna be incarcerated for thinking outside of the box. Or for smokin' that evil weed.

[Madmiddle]

60. Just guessing,

but if these clowns have been together since 1994, and cartels have been shipping drugs and laundering money, all over the world, why did it take till just a couple of years ago to catch HSBC laundering billions of dollars. So, as usual they're going after you and I. They are looking the otherway when banks rip off consumers. They have to know about this shit going on. These aganecy are either looking the otherway or are made up of the most stupid fucking assholes on the planet. They look into main street homes yet trun their back on rich people ripping us off.

[Jackpine Radical]

61. Absolutely.

They are no out to make life hard for their owners.

[Oilwellian]

62. If the info was obtained illegally...

and passed on to the local yokels, and they in turn prosecuted Americans with that info, imagine the legal challenges ahead.

Imagine what this guy would do with NSA data on the liberals in his town:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/23/pennsylvania-police-chief-fck-all-you-libtards-out-there-you-take-it-in-the-a/

[truedelphi]

158. I have lived in areas of the country that are supposedly conclaves of

Liberalism, yet the local police freely pick on people of color and the poor.

So yes, I can only imagine if you live in a conservative area, or one where the conservatives are noticeably in power, how awful it would be.

NSA is a wet dream for most police departments.

[Coyotl]

63. The real significance is that this is now a Dem/Obama scandal, not a Bush scandal even though

this crap was started under Bush. It now brings down the Dems because this is on Obama's watch!

[ProSense]

68. SOD started under Clinton. n/t

[stevenleser]

100. And DOD coordination with DEA started in 1986 under Reagan

http://www.ndu.edu/inss/docuploaded/Strat%20Perspectives%205%20_%20Lamb-Munsing.pdf


In 1986, President Reagan took a major step toward institutionalizing DOD support for the war on drugs. National Security Decision Directive 221 declared narcotrafficking a national security threat and authorized the Secretary of Defense to take measures that would “enable U.S. military forces to support counternarcotics efforts more actively.”25 This executive order dovetailed nicely with the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 (PL 99–570), which established billets on Navy vessels specifically designated for Coast Guard law enforcement detachments in an effort to increase their ability to intercept drug smugglers.26 That same year, Customs was told to set up counternarcotic command, control, communications, and intelligence (C3I) centers to enhance interagency coordination on interdiction.
----------------
Google also organizations like the NORAD Tactical Intellingence Cell which started in the late 1980s

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Oh, only a paranoid person would think they would use "terror fighting" powers to arrest pot smokers

[CanSocDem]

82. Nice One!

The thread in a graphic.

.

[DeSwiss]

71. The whole of government is a parasite. - K&R n/t

[Enthusiast]

77. If we evaluate the successes and failures of the DEA,

over their history, we would conclude that the DEA is one of the greatest, most spectacular failures in the history of mankind.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. Cough.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/30/justice/california-dea-settlement

[Enthusiast]

126. Yeah.

It's a wonder they didn't just kill him and say he escaped.

[WillyT]

79. HUGE K & R !!!

[Warren DeMontague]

86. That's WHY they're spying, duh.

The dangerous terrorist is that joint you're about to smoke, and they'll kick down your door and throw you in prison for 5 years, to save you from it.

[KoKo]

90. Yes..I get it...it's another very disturbing revelation on top of the others.

Something needs to be done about this. Hopefully as more folks digest it...there will be some action.

K&R

[Th1onein]

91. WHAT story are you talking about?

I must have missed something.

[questionseverything]

94. nsa and dea teaming up

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE97409R20130805

[Th1onein]

98. OMG. What the fuck is happening to this country?

If you don't know where the true source of the evidence is, how can you rebut it? This is simple. You can't fucking lie about the source of the evidence. I don't care how long they've been doing it, or how prevalent it is. It is unconstitutional.

[Jackpine Radical]

132. And that's only a small part of the story.

Phonying up an evidence trail for criminal prosecutions.

How about picking up evidence of "terrorist" dissident activity like OWS participation, filming conditions on a factory farm, writing things they don't like, whatever, and sharing that information among all these agencies & then launching a coordinated vendetta against you?

[wildbilln864]

102. k & freakin r! n/t

[AppleBottom]

107. The NSA is feeding the information to the DEA.

You know the same information that's supposed to be used only to protect against terrorism.

[Warren DeMontague]

114. It is! It is! It is PROTECTING US AGAINST THE TERROR OF -NOT- BEING THROWN IN JAIL FOR SMOKING POT!

Sure, I suppose you'd let the terrorists win by smoking pot in the privacy of their own homes!

[Jackpine Radical]

134. And vice-versa, no doubt.

The upshot is that, whether or not the NSA gathers its own domestic intelligence on citizens, they get access to it from other agencies.

[TeamPooka]

111. Prohibition is a failed public policy...again. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

136. Not really.

Prohibition & the drug war have nothing to do with decreasing drug usage, and everything to do with collecting information, justifying a militarized police, and controlling the citizenry.

[TeamPooka]

146. So when the drug war started it was so the NSA could collect data?

Sure.

[Jackpine Radical]

148. It was used to suppress antiwar dissent in the Nixon years.

Dirty fuckin' hippies and all that.

As for later accretions of power & connections--ever hear of "mission creep?"

[TeamPooka]

150. actually is was originally done in 1937 to control the Mexican population...

so you don't really know the history of cannabis prohibition.

[Jackpine Radical]

151. Indeed I do know that history. Anslinger and all that.

I was referring specifically to the escalation that happened beginning with Nixon's "War on Drugs."

As a participant in the antiwar movement, mostly in Madison WI in the period 1969-74, I saw how the "drug war" was implemented to suppress civil disobedience.

[blkmusclmachine]

113. They wouldn't lie to us,

again.

[blackspade]

116. This shit is despicable.

And blatantly unconstitutional.

[nolabels]

127. So it was a good guess, and i am not as crazy as i thought i was.

Or in other words welcome to my world

[sellitman]

128. Thom Hartmann mentioned your thread on his show yesterday

Mentioned your name too.

Good job.

[Jackpine Radical]

130. I really appreciate your letting me know.

I don't ordinarily catch his show, and wouldn't have known otherwise.

[sellitman]

154. He had a whole segment on it.

Pretty cool. He podcasts his show I bet you could find it.

Who says he don't know Jack?

[Jackpine Radical]

155. This would be the second time he picked up one of my DU rants.

The first was a long time ago, a list of what I thought liberalism means.

[ProSense]

135. U.S. to review DEA unit that hides use of intel in crime cases

U.S. to review DEA unit that hides use of intel in crime cases
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023413365

[truedelphi]

156. Well that is just so special.

Now I am sure most of us here will feel totally secure in our privacy and in our Fourth Amendment rights.

[Safetykitten]

142. Don't worry, be happy.

[TBF]

144. Excellent OP - should be required reading. nt

[Berlum]

157. Beastly