General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShould illegal immigrants ever be separated from their US citizen children?
Saw a thread with a similar topic yesterday, and it got me thinking. Once you have a child in the US is that just it? Should there be any requirements afterwords? Should it just apply to just the mother? Trying to look into what other countries do in similar situations.
I believe it is what they call a sticky wicket.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)it happens way too much and it affects the children greatly.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)On the fact that mass deportations, in practice, serve no useful purpose except to mollify those upset about seeing too many brown folks around?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)The child can't even petition for the parent until (s)he reaches 21. In the meantime, papa or mama no con papeles gets arrested and deported, if located by ICE.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)If you're a xenophobic bastard, you might want the kids stripped of their US Citizenship and thrown out, too. If you're a "compassionate conservative", you might just stop at throwing the kids of undocumented parents out of public school.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Like most things in American politics.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)We have no problem putting US citizen parents in jail (and the kids in foster care) for breaking the law.
If mom and dad don't want to take the kids with them back to their country of origin, the US citizen kids should be entitled to foster care in their community.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Which undocumented immigration is, basically. It's a misdemeanor offense that amounts to "being where you shouldn't be." It's not the earth-shattering high offense that the right wants you to think it is.
Littering is more criminal.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)"Go home" isn't a punishment, it's a prerogative of the host.
Any immigration law which doesn't send a violator back home really isn't a law.
If they don't want to take their kids with them (an act I find pretty dubious) then the kids are citizens and entitled to foster care.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Is that the latest sanctimonious self-deception?
Being forced to do something against your will is not a punishment? WHAT IS IT, THEN? A reward?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I'm being kicked out because it's your living room and subject to your rules.
aquart
(69,014 posts)And I've done it.
"Subject to your rules" is a gutless attempt to duck responsibility.
renie408
(9,854 posts)I can never figure out why everybody gets so excited about 'illegal aliens'. And my husband works in construction, where this is a hot button topic. Thing is, do you know how hard it is to get a crew of AMERICANS to come out and replace your roof? Or to hang a 300 board house in a day? It is next to impossible, even now when you would think there would be a lot of Americans greedy for work.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)If that there are lot of people wanting to come here and waiting to go through the proper process.
Either we need to enforce the process or completely get rid of it.
Personally, I am for opening up immigration significantly but still deporting those who are here illegally.
And yes, I had a crew of Americans do my roof. It took a week and didn't come close to passing inspection. It had to be ripped off and redone. The second crew was Hispanic. Those guys worked their butts off and did an amazing job. They were shocked when I tipped them in cash (mainly because I was so grateful for the job they did). Immigrants are what made this country great and continue to do so.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)First, our trade policies. Most blatantly is the fact that it's cheaper to buy American corn in Mexico, than it is to buy Mexican corn, because of US subsidies. We have, in effect, killed all local agriculture in Latin America and the Caribbean; Jamaica used to have a thriving dairy industry... and then we literally destroyed it. Same with rice in Haiti; our subsidizations and trade "agreements" obliterated the main crops in these countries and replaced them with American=produced stuff.
We have, in effect, created millions of destitute homeless people outside our borders, and we have done so intentionally, to benefit our agricorps.
And then these people, with nowhere else to turn, come north to our borders, only to find that in order to get into the "land of the free," you have to have some wealth to spare. It all comes out to a total of $5,000 or so, just to get the basic paperwork filed; you can still be deported no problem if you make even a small misstep.
So how about that? We create widespread destitution, and then close our border to the destitute.
Don't give me this sob story bullshit about the people who filed all their papers legally. I mean hey, good for them, I'm happy they could and did do that, thumbs up. But for every one of them there are fifty more people who cannot do this. It's not that they will not - there's that right-wing mythmaking again - it's that they flat cannot accomplish it. A lack of funds, some criminal record, lack of "marketable skill," etc.
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)Maybe ever.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)If the jobs paid more, you'd find more citizens doing them. In areas where there are few undocumented immigrants houses still get built and roofs still get replaced.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,243 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)before they haul you away like cattle.
former9thward
(31,684 posts)When parents are deported they can bring any U.S. born children with them. No one is 'separated' from their children.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)And the question is whether they should be deported in the first place.
former9thward
(31,684 posts)Put them in the streets? Put them in the already overburdened foster child program? Any other alternative than putting with their parents would not be a good options. They should be with their family. What type of parents would not want their children? The only exceptions I can see is if they have relatives in the U.S. willing to take them in.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)They're citizens and entitled to it.
As minor children, they are entitled to return with the parents to the parents country of origin. The only reason the family would be split is because the parents chose not to take the kids with them.
former9thward
(31,684 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If I were illegally in Mexico and deported, I would elect to bring my Mexican-born children back home with me. If I chose not to, those children would be eligible for whatever supports are available to them as mexican citizens.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)is separating thousands of families where the parents are not giving the choice to be deported with their kids. They are simply snatched and deported. And the administration is on track to separate many more.
So this idea you have that those parents have any say in the matter is mistaken.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If deported parents want their children returned to them in their country of origin (absent major criminal conduct by the parents) it should happen immediately.
If they want them raised in foster care as US citizens, I'm okay with that too.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)It's separating families that may never be reunited again.
And of course, the wishes of these deported parents are of no account to our government whose own criminal conduct in separating them will never be addressed.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)snip
The sun was rising on a late summer morning in Farmington. Clara (all parents names in this story have been changed) was asleep inside the trailer that she shared with the children and Josefina, who was finishing a night shift at the local restaurant where both sisters worked. Clara says she was jolted awake by the sound of banging and yelling. A group of uniformed officers, some marked with ICE, for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and others DEA, for Drug Enforcement Administration, burst through the door.
The agents put Clara in handcuffs, while two of the officers began walking and carrying the children out of the trailer. Clara pleaded with them, asking what they would do with her children. Were taking them where we take all the kids, Clara remembers one of the agents saying. She begged them to let her call a friend who could come pick up the children. The agents refused.
When Josefina arrived home from work several hours later, ICE officers were waiting. The sisters were locked up in the San Juan County jail, where they stayed for several weeks until ICE transported them to an immigration detention center in Albuquerque, three hours to the south. Their children remained in foster care.
This family is one among thousands whove been through the same ordeal. In a yearlong investigation, the Applied Research Center, which publishes Colorlines.com, found that at least 5,100 children whose parents are detained or deported are currently in foster care around the United States. That number represents a conservative estimate of the total, based on extensive surveys of child welfare case workers and attorneys and analysis of national immigration and child welfare trends. Many of the kids may never see their parents again.
http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/11/thousands_of_kids_lost_in_foster_homes_after_parents_deportation.html
former9thward
(31,684 posts)Official policy is to let the parents take the children when they are deported. Do mistakes get made in a one size fits all immigration law? Of course just like any other program.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Boojatta
(12,231 posts)and the government doesn't intervene to force them back under the custody of their biological parents, then is the government guilty of separating the biological parents from their children?
time for me to fly
(10 posts)They should all go back to their homeland together. But what some people don't understand is that many times I think the parents want their kids to stay here, regardless. There was a woman in Chicago who holed up in a church for a year to avoid deportation (as well as call attention to her plight). When the law finally caught up with her, she made arrangements with friends to take her 7-year-old son. She could have brought him with her, but wanted him in America. Well, after a short time her son went down to Mexico because he didn't want to be separated from her. That is what really turned me off. I felt that she used her son as her tool of manipulation for sympathy. She was also asked about the boy's father but would not reveal his identity. My suspicion is that her baby daddy was a citizen, hence would be able to take his son and so her ploy for sympathy wouldn't work...She did not help the cause one iota and actually made things worse. If you want to learn more about her case, Google Elvira Arellano.
renie408
(9,854 posts)Why should they all be sent back to their 'homeland'?
Response to renie408 (Reply #17)
Post removed
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Better yet, why don't we pass comprehensive immigration reform? Provide legal status, maybe not citizenship, to those who have already made lives here and create a work permit program for seasonal laborers. Now, we have a situation where, because of increased enforcement, people who would have gone back home for the season just stay here because coming back is too risky and difficult.
And people are not "pouring in" anymore. Immigration is responsive to economic conditions. Check with ICE and and BPS and they will tell you that the number of people they're grabbing is way down.
Of course, now we criminalize them. Before about 2006, we often just sent them home. But now, we have a whole system of privatized immigrant detention centers and assembly-line justice where these wannabe laborers are turned into felons.
I suggest you check out Tom Barry's "Border Wars" for a progressive perspective.
time for me to fly
(10 posts)I believe in Socialism. Does Obama? What about Clinton and NAFTA? Actually, all the so-called liberals who champion the tsunami of people coming in are right on time with Big Business, who LOVES us all competing against one another. So maybe I should accuse YOU of being a teabagger?
time for me to fly
(10 posts)there are undocumented people from Eastern Europe and Asia. And the burden to schools is huge. The public schools are required to accept all the children regardless, which disenfranchises the other students.
renie408
(9,854 posts)Really? "Disenfranchises"? How many disenfranchised kids have you run across that would name illegal aliens as the reason for their discontent?
You do get that if illegal immigrants are employed, they are paying taxes which pay for their kids to go to school just like anybody else's? Also, don't say that stuff about illegals using Social Security and not paying in, blah blah blah. It has been proven that, typically, illegals pay more INTO the system than they take OUT of it.
time for me to fly
(10 posts)in a very short period of time. Because it was a suburb (with more resources), they built three new schools in less than a decade. But in the city they just cram in more kids in one classroom. I wish I could link the article about this very issue. There was tension between the legal Hispanics and the undocumented ones because the legal citizens saw their neighborhoods and schools become overcrowded. Do you think they hire more teachers after an influx? HA! It just worsens the school experience for the kids. The trash overflows in the alley because the urban planners only accounted for a certain population.
renie408
(9,854 posts)That's Ok, I think you have answered any questions I might have had about your position.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Unless you personally know this woman, how do you know what she was thinking?
That is all supposition on your part. This has gone on since people have been coming to this country. Many Americans who are so judgemental of today's immigrants, are probably descendants of 'illegal immigrants' themselves.
Maybe if our economic policies, NAFTA eg, had not destroyed so many small businesses in Mexico eg, many of these immigrants would not feel the need to come here to try to feed their families.
renie408
(9,854 posts)Their parents should be made legal and that's that.
Of course, I think worrying about illegal immigration is pointless.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)were brown people. I knew an English couple who sneaked into the USA via Canada and had a couple of American born children while they were here. Eventually they were caught by the "migra", but they were given Green Cards because the judge ruled that the American born children needed their parents to raise them and provide for them. A background check showed that other than their illegal status, they were law-abiding and hard working. I believe this was fairly common practice back then in the sixties. It's when the children were born to immigrants from south of the border that the tables turned.
time for me to fly
(10 posts)the system is way lax. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have the massive issue with it that we do. And I have been hearing about undocumented people coming from South America, too! That's quite a distance. It makes me wonder what the hell is going on and who is sponsoring this and creating these networks where people are willing to sacrifice everything to get here...
renie408
(9,854 posts)And who is 'we'??
time for me to fly
(10 posts)Maybe you live in a very White area and can idealize this issue. It is very serious and trust me, it's the reason why some of these states finally got Draconian. My concern is LEGAL immigrants being given visas! I have been hearing an alarming number of British and Aussie accents in the last five years. Why would they be lured to come here during a depression?! Because it's being done by DESIGN!
renie408
(9,854 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)I used to question the immigrants about it in the restaurants I worked. At that time it wasn't illegal for the business to hire illegals, but one Mexican kid of sixteen said it all. He had to quit school in the fifth grade to help support his family. He worked in a brick factory for the equivalent of 75 cents a day. Here he was making minimum wage, which at that time was $3.35 an hour and was able to send more home every month than he earned in a month in Mexico.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I know an Israeli who was deported some 20 years ago after his green card marriage fell apart. Still see his "wife" occasionally.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)find immigration records that admit they deport people according to the color of their skin, yet my observation, when living in a city that had immigrants from every part of the world, and we rubbed elbows with them everyday, whether in the workplace, socially or in the neighborhood, the white illegals were never in danger of being deported unless they got into trouble with the law. The Central Americans, however, lived in fear daily of being deported. I know because I worked in restaurants a lot, which hired these people. I was actually hired because I'm bilingual English/Spanish and was able to be a liaison, communicating between management and those employees. So I got to know their stories pretty well.
The only time I ever saw white, European immigrants deported was a group of Australians, who got in a bar fight, and the manager called the immigration. They were all back within a month. Yes, it's all anecdotal, but since no one likes to document these observations they will have to remain so.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I lived in NYC for many years and can't remember anyone besides the Israeli ever getting deported.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I now live rurally and the authorities are always harassing the farmers about their seasonal labor, yet the local Irish tavern in town that is patronized by many European illegals never gets raided.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)to make these workers legal and protected from exploitation under the law. Before it became illegal to hire immigrants, all of them were hired at at least minimum wage. They had taxes and FICA taken out of their checks and they were protected under labor laws. I know because I was the person who did the payroll and who listened to their stories if their supervisors weren't treating them well. The labor board had no interest in their immigration status. Neither did the cops. Both agencies felt it was not their job. We need to go back to something like that but giving them a work permit or guest worker status, something like that. The more we drive them underground the easier it is for unscrupulous employers to exploit them, under pay them and by under paying them drive legitimate workers out of the job market. It's what's happening today.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)However, I don't know too many Americans who want to pick onions in a field all day so those workers are needed by the farmers to bring in their harvests. There just aren't enough domestic workers to do it. Also, in restaurants, the Americans take the jobs that earn tips. They don't want to slave away in the kitchen peeling potatoes and washing dishes for minimum wage, so the owners of those establishments need those workers as well and they hire illegals to do the jobs. So I believe those workers should be able to do it legally.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)Bringing workers from India or anywhere to work more cheaply than Americans is wrong and there should be a law about it. Actually at one time there was. In order to bring in a foreign worker, you had to prove that you couldn't find anyone else to do the job. An example would be the German rocket engineers and scientists brought here after WWII. They knew the stuff our engineers and scientists didn't. We once had a law like that. I wonder what happened after Raygun became Prez?
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)work in the fields where they know how to work in those conditions?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)straw man to me.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)"However, I don't know too many Americans who want to pick onions in a field all day so those workers are needed by the farmers to bring in their harvests"
So brown people belong in the fields because that is a skill set that only they possess?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I said Americans, who if you look around can be any color. Most "Americans" are unwilling to do this kind of work. However, according to you, maybe we should bring our farm labor over from the Ukraine because they are white enough for you and we shouldn't demean others because they aren't white? Honestly, do you know what you are saying?
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I get really tired of people up in arms over H1B visas because they take white-collar jobs and depress wages, but when you point out that illegal immigration tends to take blue collar jobs and decrease wages you get answers such as: they are just looking for a better life, those people should be retrained, should have thought about that before they went into that career, should have been born to a wealthier family, and the list goes on and on.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Those dish washers, onion pickers and other minimum wage jobs that most Americans will only do as a stepping stone to something else, need the protection of the law, so that they don't decrease wages and put other blue collar workers out of a job. I will repeat it again the further you drive these people underground, the more unscrupulous employers will exploit them and depress the job market all the way around.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)And without that you will always have illegal immigration.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)need them to work for them is hardly open borders. When I was in high school in So. Calif. the summer job my friends and I had were picking fruit. We worked alongside the braceros then and were paid by the boxes we picked. The braceros were Mexicans who came in during the harvest seasons legally to pick the crops. There weren't enough high school students to meet the need, so the Mexican nationals filled that need. Then a few years later, the bracero law was rescinded. Yes, there were problems; low wages and families sleeping in the fields that they worked in, without proper sanitary facilities, but the workers didn't have to fear being herded into detention centers, humiliated and then deported. The fact is that with some fixing, the law allowing them to come and work legally here was a solution. No it wasn't open borders, because the workers were accounted for because of their paychecks. So we need to revisit that.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)You keep changing the apples into oranges. I'm talking about unskilled labor (which is actually pretty skilled if you ever have to do it. You just don't need an education to get the job.) You are talking about techs who have an education and skills comparable to our domestic white collar educated labor force, who are willing to work for less money.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)never have to suffer such an indignation. Do you think white-collar workers are more important than blue-collar workers?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)and your words have proved it. You just want a pissing match. I will answer your question though. All workers are important in their field or there wouldn't be jobs, would there be? As far as the princes of the corporate world, I don't consider them part of the labor force but parasites that profit from it. Just to really firm where you stand, answer me this question. What do you think of all the free labor women do in the home? Should they be paid? Or is what they do not important like the so-called "bread winner".
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)My wife is about to start being a stay-at-home mom so it's very much on my mind. She's quitting her state gov't job and will just focusing on her private practice and holding sessions in the evening. Maybe 3 times a week. She controls all the finances so I'm the one in danger of not being paid, lol.
We made the decision because we felt it would be better for our children and it's something she really enjoys.
I'm just trying to point out that there it little difference between H1B visa holders and illegal immigrants. Both are just a source of cheap labor.
Response to Cleita (Reply #109)
Cleita This message was self-deleted by its author.
WilmywoodNCparalegal
(2,654 posts)Basically, if you enter the U.S. and pass through immigration inspection at the border, airport, crossing, etc., immigration law treats you much more kindly than if you sneak through without inspection.
Hence, it is possible for the parents in Cleita's example to have gotten their permanent residence, while it would be next to impossible (barring lots of money, attorneys and approved waivers of inadmissibility) for someone who entered without inspection.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)a visitor's visa. Many of them were savvy enough to do this. Usually, they would come in once with the Coyotes and then they got smart and figured out how to do it. This is how many of the European illegals come in on a visitor's visa and then just stay. Yet, the Mexicans by and large were hunted down in raids when the immigration was cracking down, periodically, while the European illegals were left alone.
w8liftinglady
(23,278 posts)I have absolutely no problem at all with at least a green card,so that the family can remain here legally and get on the track to citizenship.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)about this. Let's face it anyone of color is the problem and especially south of the border. It is so very sad. They are doing jobs that many don't want to do. I live in a rural area in Tn. We have alot of Mexicans working in the fields around where I live. I will tell you they work very very hard. They are good people. All they want is the same thing we want. They want to send their children to school and get an education. Some of their children are born here and have never been to Mexico. America is their country. Just ask some of these states around the south how hard it has been to find field workers to pick our veggies and fruit. They sure took a hit. There should be some way to help these people that are here now.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I know there is some problems with illegal Irish immigrants taking blue collar jobs in NY for cash under the table.
If Americans just started pouring into Canada, would they be justified in deporting us?
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)go and come freely across the borders. That would solve alot of problems.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Similar to some of the Eastern European bloc countries that are trying to join the EU.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)could work.
time for me to fly
(10 posts)Repeating that tired phrase is NOT true and a complete slap in the face! First of all, where I live there are huge numbers of illegal Poles, Russians, and other E. Europeans and I feel the very same way about them. They have taken over the roofing and construction industries. Do you honestly believe that no Americans do these jobs? They just belong to unions and this is one way to get around it! And they don't make peanuts, either, but they can still undercut a union worker.
My partner works with his hands and has seen his business cut like crazy because of the competition. There are Black women picketing downtown because the hotel industry kicked them to the curb and hired undocumented Hispanic women.
Stop making these FALSE STATEMENTS!
renie408
(9,854 posts)but you don't have to use it on every single one of your posts. Animated smilies are kind of distracting.
And my husband works in construction in the southeast. We live in a community that has seen a good bit of immigration. I don't see the downside. My husband has had jobs where the homeowner specifically requested American workers and we couldn't FIND any to do the work. You try to find a crew of American hangers to hang a 300 board house in a day, do a good job, arrive early and work late and do it for $5 a board...which is what the going rate for hanging sheetrock is in our area. Cause if you can do that, I would really REALLY like their number for the odd job that doesn't want us to use Hispanics.
Honey, in the summer of '08 we were spraying the ceilings on ten house A DAY, and doing the drywall contract on another 5-6 per month. We ran three crews and were making bank. These days my husband works by himself out of a mini-van and does drywall repairs and small remodels. Your partner's work isn't being hurt by immigrants, it is being hurt by the economy and a housing market that is glutted with empty houses. We scratch and scramble and fight for every job. Half the time that my husband goes to give an estimate, he winds up getting told that their cousin/brother in law/uncle is going to do the work for them. We are charging $25 a board now, with us supplying materials on new construction. We have to sub out the hanging. Four years ago we were charging $40 and had to turn down work. These are just tough times.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)Which is considered "good money" for those who don't have a post secondary education. The disadvantage is that it is highly physical, usually doesn't offer benefits, and mostly seasonal here in Wisconsin. There are still many Americans, mostly young men who are willing to do it.
Most of these businesses include a labor hour charge as part of their bill which is significantly more than they are paying their people.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)also have a mother (god rest her soul) who came here to america from another country legally. Also grandparents came here legally and all became US citizens the legal way. If you read my comment you will see I was talking about hispanics in our area. I have nothing against anyone coming here. All I am stating is what I see. I don't live in big cities so I don't know what goes on in those areas. But you must admit when you see a Russian, or a Pole or someone from a East european country they are not going to get stopped as fast as a hispanic. That is a fact. I do think if all these people are here then let them come out in the open and find a way for them to stay in the country if they have children. ALL foreigners (not matter what country) come here and they know the deal if they get caught. But I do feel people south of the border are getting a raw deal. They are our neighbors and they work hard and pay taxes like the rest and we should find a legal way if their children are born here to help them stay. But you must admit everyone knows the deal. I am don't hate anyone. I am talking strictly farm work. That is what I see in rural Tn area I live in. They are good hard working people.
Oh by the way don't worry before long the republicans will do away with the child labor laws and we won't have to worry about losing jobs to foreigners, no we will have to worry about losing jobs to our kids.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)The statement doesn't seem to be false at all in your case.
renie408
(9,854 posts)I noticed that. I have already gotten one comment deleted today, so I went back and edited my response. But...yeah...
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)renie408
(9,854 posts)I am not sure that is always the right answer. I get that she was racist and, seriously, ignorant. But if you read her post about her partner, I think a lot of it stems from the financial pressure they are under. It is natural to want to blame somebody. In this case, they are blaming immigrants for her partner's lack of work. I happen to know from painful personal experience that it is mostly just this shitty economy and the housing bust. And that certainly wasn't the fault of immigrants, illegal or otherwise.
If we keep kicking people off for not being quite up to our standards, then we are going to wind up talking to ourselves. Yeah, there are some people here solely to stir up shit and they need to go. But that is not the feeling I got from this one.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)While I understand your sentiment here, she needed to go
renie408
(9,854 posts)I thought it was weird that she jumped right into this thread so boldly with her first post, but figured maybe she had been lurking for awhile and just got excited about this issue.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)It's nice to know my memory still sort of works.
lol
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)here at DU. It hasn't in over a decade.
Response to renie408 (Reply #66)
Post removed
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)behind them are former eastern european block countries citizens. most if not all major cities in the usa has european illegal populations.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)starts to speak. But with people of color they will look first. I think am right. Am not trying to be offensive am just stating some truths. I all people from all over the world. I lived in europe and I loved living there.
aquart
(69,014 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)child immigrants, check out:
Which Way Home
2007NR83 minutes
In 2006, Rebecca Cammisa received a Fulbright Scholar Grant to travel to Mexico to document the plight of the children left behind when their families travel to the United States to find work. This Oscar-nominated film is the result of her journey. Cammisa and her crew follow a trio of children who set out on their own from their Latin American abodes on a dangerous trek through Mexico en route to the U.S. border and -- they hope -- their families' embrace.
Director:
Rebecca Cammisa
Genres:
Documentaries, Social & Cultural Documentaries
Language:
Spanish (Neutral)
This movie is:
Cerebral, Emotional, Dark
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Dad is the illegal. That is what I have seen in working in Title 1 schools in south Florida. In some cases Mom is a "Gringo" and her family has been American citizens for generations. Deport the entire family? Deport an American citizen who roots could possibly go back to MAYFLOWER times in ENGLAND, not Mexico? HER child too? Some of these idiots say deport ALL of them to Mexico. These "white" women are just trash and should not be making babies with Mexican men, illegal or not.
That is blunt, but I have actually heard that said in this very, very red part of Florida. The kids? They don't give a crap about them. I have to say coming from up North it defintely was culture shock to me.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)HockeyMom (7,557 posts)
63. Mom and child are natural born citizens
Dad is the illegal.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Your question says, "should only the father be deported".
Did you mean something else?
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Better phrased as "should the father be deported"
Nikia
(11,411 posts)The guy married a Japanese citizen. For some reason, they had problems filing the right paperwork at the right time. They decided that they probably would be better off all in Japan given the situation.
It is up to the family what they do. Certainly those targeted for deportation should be given a certain amount of time to make the right decision for their family and arrangements for the changes that they will have to make.
I know that non citizens married to citizens are supposed to be able to be legal residents but that the paperwork is difficult and expensive for many families. Maybe there would be a way to make it easier, including no cost help.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)That is NOT my opinion. In a case like that there should be a path to citizenship for that man, who is married to an American citizen, has an American child, is working paying taxes to support his family, has no criminal record, etc.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)Though I feel that there should be a penalty of some sort and they should be required to become documented when caught.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)It's much, much harder to be undocumented here with a family than without one.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Terra Alta
(5,158 posts)If the immigrant has a child here, every effort should be made to make the immigrant legal.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)And does it apply to just the mother or the father too?
Terra Alta
(5,158 posts)As for the ones without children, efforts should be made to make them legal, too. Most of them come here to try to make a better life for themselves; they shouldn't be turned away.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Not sure any country has open borders though.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It wouldn't have any undocumented immigrants on that list.
Sigh. We're talking about -parents- here. If you were a little kid, and your house was raided by a para-military group to snatch your parents away, don't you think that would be kind of traumatizing?
The state I'm living in now used to be part of Mexico. You don't just shove more than half a country across a new line that is halfway down from where it used to be and say, that's it: we're Sweden and you're Norway and everybody just stays put now. We have a historical relationship that is unique, and we need a more realistic immigration policy that reflects that.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)What if the raid is at work?
Oasis_
(254 posts)The rule of law (in this case immigration law) must be adhered to. We do not have open borders (nor does any other society). Any "compassion" extended to those legally identified as illegal immigrants is misplaced, imho.
Illegal immigrants should be returned to their country of origin, while any children they may have that are determined to be American citizens have the right to stay with a family member that's a citizen or via social services.
That choice is entirely up to the parent(s).
You do not reward lawbreaking. Those who have crossed illegally are in direct violation of our border and immigration policies and should not receive special consideration and privileges under any circumstances
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine it fundamentally boils down to whether one believes family is more important, or if imaginary, red and blue lines on a map are more important.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Won't change any time soon if ever.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Hence, the reason many people prioritize, and then rationalize to themselves the importance of imaginary red and blue line over families...
"Reality is" the world has, is and will be full of wars, abuse, slavery, and violence also. That being said, it certainly does not tempt to me allow them any degree of tolerance.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Maybe Germany, Great Britain, or France will give it a try though.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You appear to be adding additional qualifiers to your premise, as an alleged survival of a country was not implied in the original. You could in future however, list all qualifiers, exceptions, and exemptions in the original OP so as not to take exception with the answers you receive.
You asked a question, you received an answer....
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)You seem to be concerned with the imaginary borders that countries enforce. I am just musing on what would happen with their removal.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"I am just musing on what would happen with their removal. "
Sounded much less like a musing, and much more as one absolutist prognostication without room for additional possibilities...
Again, I imagine the answer to your original query depends wholly on which a person finds more important-- family or the imaginary, regardless of post-hoc qualifiers. If you're not happy with that answer, I imagine you will find many others that will indeed, better validate your point of view.
As for me, I find no compelling reason to continue getting further and further off what was originally a very pointed and specific question. Thanks ever so much.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I suppose you would also have to consider the other families currently living beyond that imaginary line and which you cared more about.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)between "mine" and "thine", right?
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)We don't lock our doors, as it happens, and we're two women in Undocumented Central here in East San Jose.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)aquart
(69,014 posts)Which could create bitter terrorists. Think of it as a national security issue. Keep the family together and grateful here in the USA.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)as soon as possible?
aquart
(69,014 posts)Lots of incentive for 18 years of commitment and hard work. Remember, you would have to keep that child healthy and alive, wouldn't you?
Why, that looks exactly like a method of making good citizens.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Not all parents are that concerned about their children. And if you are pregnant or planning on having a baby anyway wouldn't you want to make sure that you in the the US at the time of birth then?
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)And this idea that people come here to have American children as their first priority is bullshit. Most of these people are ALREADY in a family that they care about. That includes parents and siblings as well as minor children.
What they do up here has an impact on that family. And bringing a child into the world to add to the burden these workers are ALREADY carrying is not their first choice, especially at the lousy wages and the no benefits they get.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)It's about how a change in policy might affect incentive.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)An ace in the hole?
shireen
(8,333 posts)The title of the OP itself leaves me baffled. We should be living in a society where such a question would never even be raised.
So many lives, so much money and time could be saved by just letting illegal immigrants from neighboring countries (except violent criminals) be given legal worker status. That would allow them to be protected against employers who take advantage of their status by treating them unfairly. Let them pay taxes and contribute to society while they're here. If they choose to become citizens, they will only enrich the country with their presence. If they choose to return, they will take their positive experiences here to build a better society in their home countries.
I'm not condoning illegal immigration. But I think special considerations should be given to neighboring countries like Mexico, Central America, and Canada for a very simple reason: they're our neighbors. We should be helping our neighbors. It's a long-term strategy to strengthen and stabilize the entire region.
I'm not Hispanic, but I came here legally from an Asian country and became a citizen through all the proper channels. As a fellow immigrant (legal or illegal, it does not matter), my heart goes out to them -- I've seen how hard they work, and admire their courage and self-sacrifice. I want them to have a chance for a better life.
It may sound naive, but often, the simplest solution and a little empathy goes a long way.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)This conversation is repulsive.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I thought it was at all time lows so did NAFTA help reduce it?
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)jupiter chakra
(2 posts)as is calling me TRASH. Very nice, Mizz Open-minded Progressive! NAFTA passed in 1994, no? The deluge began way before that--top of the decade in particular. Hmmm...I wonder if Ronnie Raygun's amnesty in 1986 had anything to do with it?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And I'd rather not reply to some of the folks on this thread, lest I get booted from DU.