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The real size of the African Continent (Original Post) malaise Aug 2013 OP
Interesting! leftstreet Aug 2013 #1
Great illustration that. dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #2
I think France is too small in this map... truebrit71 Aug 2013 #3
The farther away from the equator the greater the distortion. Igel Aug 2013 #41
Great Britain fits into France at least four times... truebrit71 Aug 2013 #59
It's closer to two times; the projection makes sense with those numbers (nt) Posteritatis Aug 2013 #61
You are correct...it is England that fits into France four times.. truebrit71 Aug 2013 #62
Africa -- freakin' HUGE! Blue Owl Aug 2013 #4
+1 Baitball Blogger Aug 2013 #5
I can see it from my porch awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #56
I like the scene from "The West Wing" when they switched the slide from the Mercator Projection Aristus Aug 2013 #6
ROFL malaise Aug 2013 #11
I just saw that episode recently! RevStPatrick Aug 2013 #34
Love that one. Aristus Aug 2013 #37
Great line! RevStPatrick Aug 2013 #40
LOL malaise Aug 2013 #46
What your favorite map projection says about you. xkcd... progressoid Aug 2013 #7
Great stuff malaise Aug 2013 #8
"You like Isaac Asimov, XML and toes with shoes." CrispyQ Aug 2013 #10
That damn cartoon... krispos42 Aug 2013 #13
I don't really understand the purpose of the Peters map, kentauros Aug 2013 #15
"It freaks you out to realize that everyone around you has a skeleton inside them" arcane1 Aug 2013 #32
I have a globe PD Turk Aug 2013 #33
I'm a mix of... RevStPatrick Aug 2013 #42
Fab thread. CrispyQ Aug 2013 #9
Once we had a President who wanted Democracy and fair trade with African nations. Octafish Aug 2013 #12
Then Kennedy didn't know what they were doing malaise Aug 2013 #14
Frank 'Carlyle Group' Carlucci was working in Congo then. Octafish Aug 2013 #16
We've been reading quite a bit since it became official malaise Aug 2013 #17
Theres always SOMETHING to bitch about 7962 Aug 2013 #18
I have found that a flipped map forces you to look at the globe in a "new light" kentauros Aug 2013 #44
Like brushing your teeth with the opposite hand 7962 Aug 2013 #58
Continents are large. tabasco Aug 2013 #19
A friend of mine who just finished some NGO work in Africa Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #20
One of the reasons USA created AfricaCom dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #31
Africa is huge with 1+ billion people. What if they start manufacturing stuff the way Asians have pampango Aug 2013 #21
All I know is that it must be hard to catch up when millions of your healthiest people malaise Aug 2013 #22
So true. I hope they figure out another development path and can implement it successfully. pampango Aug 2013 #28
Bringing Slavery to Africa formercia Aug 2013 #30
If "the manufacturing route" will make them prosperous, that's what they should do. Nye Bevan Aug 2013 #35
Cool, but... Orrex Aug 2013 #23
Didn't look that far malaise Aug 2013 #24
I learned navigation before GPS and computers. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #25
Thanks for that lesson malaise Aug 2013 #26
Very interesting, and I had never heard any of that before! Orrex Aug 2013 #27
It's also funny how huge Greenland looks in that projection. Nye Bevan Aug 2013 #36
This is why everyone should have a globe around the house... PoliticAverse Aug 2013 #29
The best these days is a globe. hunter Aug 2013 #38
Agreed - both Mercator and Peters are full of shit derby378 Aug 2013 #43
This is one of the most useful conversations that has been ignored loyalsister Aug 2013 #39
I disagree malaise Aug 2013 #48
That's a good point loyalsister Aug 2013 #49
There was a French couple who walked from Cape Town to the Sea of Gallilee about ten years back... TheMightyFavog Aug 2013 #45
Serious trip that malaise Aug 2013 #51
They left out Alaska from USA. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #47
Australia isn't there either... mimi85 Aug 2013 #54
whoa..it's big Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #50
thank you for posting this, malaise arely staircase Aug 2013 #52
What a great idea malaise Aug 2013 #53
This isn't "map dishonesty" -- it's map mathematics Jim Lane Aug 2013 #55
But it's much more fun to pretend that Mercator was a racist imperialist Nye Bevan Aug 2013 #57
No 2-D projection can be accurate Recursion Aug 2013 #60

Igel

(35,300 posts)
41. The farther away from the equator the greater the distortion.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 07:04 PM
Aug 2013

Near the pole the lines of longitude grow closer together. As you approach the equator, the circumference of the Earth is greater and the lines of longitude are farther apart.

As soon as you stipulate that they must be equidistant at all latitudes you've stretched things. Britain's north of France; it's a bit wider than it should be compared to France.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
62. You are correct...it is England that fits into France four times..
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 10:50 PM
Aug 2013

...it's still too small in this map

Aristus

(66,316 posts)
6. I like the scene from "The West Wing" when they switched the slide from the Mercator Projection
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 03:55 PM
Aug 2013

to the Peters Projection. The significant difference between the two inspired C.J to ask the cartographers: "What is that?!?

Their reply: "It's where you've been living this whole time."

Aristus

(66,316 posts)
37. Love that one.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:29 PM
Aug 2013

"You may have mistaken this for your monthly meeting of the ignorant tight-ass club, but in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits!"

I've got that one from memory...

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
15. I don't really understand the purpose of the Peters map,
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:43 PM
Aug 2013

except for maybe geo-political reasons. If you're trying to get to a certain point on the globe, then all you need are lat/long or Northing/Easting numbers.

It's all just 2D representations of the globe anyway. Thankfully, with GIS and Civil 3D, you can take your XYZ points and make a map in almost any projection, feet or meters. I have no personal preference for projections, just whatever the client likes best. They're the ones that matter the most

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
12. Once we had a President who wanted Democracy and fair trade with African nations.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:22 PM
Aug 2013

Then, he died. And his successor returned to business as usual, going back to 1953, when Allen Dulles' CIA joined the European colonial powers to carve up something worth stealing. From then to the present day, there was one, brief, 34-month respite:

JFK Cried for Congo

EXCERPT...



The above caption, by Jacques Lowe, personal photographer to JFK, reads:

"On February 13 1961, United Nations Ambassador Adlai Stevenson came on the phone. I was alone with the President; his hand went to his head in utter despair, "On, no," I heard him groan. The Ambassador was informing the President of the assassination of Patrice Lumumba of the Congo, an African leader considered a trouble-maker and a leftist by many Americans. But Kennedy's attitude towards black Africa was that many who were considered leftists were in fact nationalists and patriots, anti-West because of years of colonialization, and lured to the siren call of Communism against their will. He felt that Africa presented an opportunity for the West, and, speaking as an American, unhindered by a colonial heritage, he had made friends in Africa and would succeed in gaining the trust of a great many African leaders. The call therefore left him heartbroken, for he knew that the murder would be a prelude to chaos in the mineral-rich and important African country, it was a poignant moment."



Dodd and Dulles vs. Kennedy in Africa

“In assessing the central character ...
Gibbon’s description of the Byzantine general
Belisarius may suggest a comparison:
‘His imperfections flowed from the contagion of the times;
his virtues were his own.’”
— Richard Mahoney on President Kennedy


By Jim DiEugenio
CTKA From the January-February 1999 issue (Vol. 6 No. 2)

As Probe has noted elsewhere (especially in last year’s discussion of Sy Hersh’s anti-Kennedy screed, The Dark Side of Camelot), a clear strategy of those who wish to smother any search for the truth about President Kennedy’s assassination is to distort and deny his achievements in office. Hersh and his ilk have toiled to distort who Kennedy really was, where he was going, what the world would have been like if he had lived, and who and what he represented. As with the assassination, the goal of these people is to distort, exaggerate, and sometimes just outright fabricate in order to obfuscate specific Kennedy tactics, strategies, and outcomes.

This blackening of the record—disguised as historical revisionism—has been practiced on the left, but it is especially prevalent on the right. Political spy and propagandist Lucianna Goldberg—such a prominent figure in the current Clinton sex scandal—was tutored early on by the godfather of the anti-Kennedy books, that triple-distilled rightwinger and CIA crony Victor Lasky. In fact, at the time of Kennedy’s death, Lasky’s negative biography of Kennedy was on the best-seller lists. Lately, Christopher Matthews seemed to be the designated hitter on some of these issues (see the article on page 26). Curiously, his detractors ignore Kennedy’s efforts in a part of the world far from America, where Kennedy’s character, who and what he stood for, and how the world may have been different had he lived are clearly revealed. But to understand what Kennedy was promoting in Africa, we must first explore his activities a decade earlier.

SNIP...

To say the least, this is not what the Dulles brothers John Foster and Allen had in mind. Once the French empire fell, they tried to urge upon Eisenhower an overt American intervention in the area. When Eisenhower said no, Allen Dulles sent in a massive CIA covert operation headed by Air Force officer Edward Lansdale. In other words, the French form of foreign domination was replaced by the American version.

SNIP...

1964: LBJ reverses Kennedy’s policies

In 1964, the leftist rebellion picked up strength and began taking whole provinces. President Johnson and National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy decided that a weakened Adoula had to be strengthened with a show of American help. The CIA sent Cuban exile pilots to fly sorties against the rebels. When the UN finally withdrew, the US now became an ally of Belgium and intervened with arms, airplanes and advisors. Incredibly, as Jonathan Kwitny notes, Mobutu now invited Tshombe back into the Congo government (p. 79). Further, Tshombe now blamed the revolts on China! To quote Kwitny:

In a move suspiciously reminiscent of a standard US intelligence agency ploy, Tshombe produced what he said were some captured military documents, and a Chinese defector who announced that China was attempting to take over the Congo as part of a plot to conquer all of Africa. (p. 79)

With this, the Mobutu-Tshombe alliance now lost all semblance of a Gullion-Kennedy styled moderate coalition. Now, rightwing South Africans and Rhodesians were allowed to join the Congolese army in the war on the “Chinese-inspired left”. Further, as Kwitny also notes, this dramatic reversal was done under the auspices of the United States. The UN had now been dropped as a stabilizing, multilateral force. This meant, of course, that the tilt to the right would now go unabated. By 1965, the new American and Belgian supplemented force had put down the major part of the rebellion. General Mobutu then got rid of President Kasavubu. (Adoula had already been replaced by Tshombe.) In 1966, Mobutu installed himself as military dictator. The rest is a familiar story. Mobutu, like Suharto in Indonesia, allowed his country to be opened up to loads of outside investment. The riches of the Congo, like those of Indonesia, were mined by huge western corporations, whose owners and officers grew wealthy while Mobutu’s subjects were mired in abject poverty. As with the economy, Mobutu stifled political dissent as well. And, like Suharto, Mobutu grew into one of the richest men in the world. His holdings in Belgian real estate alone topped one hundred million dollars (Kwitny p. 87). Just one Swiss bank account was worth $143 million. And like Suharto, Mobutu fell after three decades of a corrupt dictatorship, leaving most of his citizenry in an anarchic, post-colonial state similar to where they had been at the beginning of his reign.

The policies before and after Kennedy’s in this tale help explain much about the chaos and confusion going on in Congo today. It’s a story you won’t read in many papers or see on television. In itself, the events which occurred there from 1959 to 1966 form a milestone. As Kwitny writes:

The democratic experiment had no example in Africa, and badly needed one. So perhaps the sorriest, and the most unnecessary, blight on the record of this new era, is that the precedent for it all, the very first coup in post-colonial African history, the very first political assassination, and the very first junking of a legally constituted democratic system, all took place in a major country, and were all instigated by the United States of America. (p. 75)


CONTINUED...

http://www.ctka.net/pr199-africa.html



Like in Vietnam, policy toward Congo and the rest of Africa did a 180. Who knew all our diamonds, gold and oil would be under their dirt? Heh heh heh.

malaise

(268,921 posts)
14. Then Kennedy didn't know what they were doing
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:42 PM
Aug 2013

Maybe this is the angle to investigate Kennedy's assassination?
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jan/17/patrice-lumumba-50th-anniversary-assassination
<snip>
With the outbreak of the cold war, it was inevitable that the US and its western allies would not be prepared to let Africans have effective control over strategic raw materials, lest these fall in the hands of their enemies in the Soviet camp. It is in this regard that Patrice Lumumba's determination to achieve genuine independence and to have full control over Congo's resources in order to utilise them to improve the living conditions of our people was perceived as a threat to western interests. To fight him, the US and Belgium used all the tools and resources at their disposal, including the United Nations secretariat, under Dag Hammarskjöld and Ralph Bunche, to buy the support of Lumumba's Congolese rivals , and hired killers.

In Congo, Lumumba's assassination is rightly viewed as the country's original sin. Coming less than seven months after independence (on 30 June, 1960), it was a stumbling block to the ideals of national unity, economic independence and pan-African solidarity that Lumumba had championed, as well as a shattering blow to the hopes of millions of Congolese for freedom and material prosperity.

The assassination took place at a time when the country had fallen under four separate governments: the central government in Kinshasa (then Léopoldville); a rival central government by Lumumba's followers in Kisangani (then Stanleyville); and the secessionist regimes in the mineral-rich provinces of Katanga and South Kasai. Since Lumumba's physical elimination had removed what the west saw as the major threat to their interests in the Congo, internationally-led efforts were undertaken to restore the authority of the moderate and pro-western regime in Kinshasa over the entire country. These resulted in ending the Lumumbist regime in Kisangani in August 1961, the secession of South Kasai in September 1962, and the Katanga secession in January 1963.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
16. Frank 'Carlyle Group' Carlucci was working in Congo then.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:55 PM
Aug 2013

Not all that odd to read how the CIA man made it to the top of the MIC heap.



"Carlucci" bleeped from HBO version of Lumumba

Ex-CIA official threatened lawsuit

By Joanne Laurier
15 March 2002

Home Box Office (HBO), the US cable television network, is currently broadcasting a censored version of Lumumba, the award-winning film about Patrice Lumumba, the first prime minister of independent Congo, assassinated by imperialist agents in January 1961.

Haitian-born director Raoul Peck’s work fictionally reconstructs Lumumba’s coming to power in 1960 and the intrigues which led to his brutal murder. The film shown on HBO is a version of the French-language original dubbed into English, which bleeps out the name of Frank Carlucci, a future deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and secretary of defense, in the dialogue and masks his name in the credits. At the time of Lumumba’s death, Carlucci was the second secretary at the US embassy in the Congo and, covertly, a CIA agent.

This attempt to keep Carlucci’s role in the Congo from television audiences follows the release of US government documents revealing that President Dwight Eisenhower ordered the CIA to murder Lumumba. Minutes of an August 1960 National Security Council meeting confirm that Eisenhower told CIA chief Allen Dulles to “eliminate” the Congolese leader. The official note taker, Robert H. Johnson, testified to this before the Senate Intelligence Committee in 1975, but no documentary evidence had been previously available to back up his claim.

Carlucci’s lawyers threatened Peck and distribution company Zeitgeist Films with legal action if the name of the former US official was not bleeped out of a scene that shows American Ambassador Clare Timberlake and Carlucci, along with Belgian and Congolese officials, plotting Lumumba’s assassination. Carlucci insisted that only the altered version of the film, with his name missing, could be used for mass market venues, such as television, video and DVD, allowing the original track to remain intact for theater showings. Zeitgeist officials said they were too small and weak financially to fight a case in court.

Carlucci is an immensely wealthy individual, with connections at the highest levels of the US government. Deputy chief of the CIA under Jimmy Carter and secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan, Carlucci is now chairman of the Carlyle Group, a private equity investment group with billions of dollars of assets in the defense industry. The company employs prominent ex-officeholders, such as former president George Bush, former British prime minister John Major and former president of the Philippines Fidel Ramos. Carlucci has the closest financial, political and personal ties to the Bush family. Other figures involved in Carlyle Group operations include former secretary of state James Baker, who headed up George W. Bush’s effort to block vote recounts in Florida in 2000 and hijack the presidential election. Carlucci has a long-term political relationship with his former classmate and wrestling buddy from Princeton, the present secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld.

At a January 24 screening of the film in New York held at the Council on Foreign Relations (CRF), publisher of Foreign Affairs magazine, Peck confirmed that the film had been changed in response to Carlucci’s legal threats. Despite considerable media presence at the event, during which Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, for one, raised a question about Carlucci’s name being removed, virtually nothing has appeared in the mainstream media about the issue.

The WSWS spoke with freelance journalist Lucy Komisar, who attended the screening and wrote an article about Carlucci’s action for the Pacific News Service. She commented: “This is censorship. This is a story that he [Carlucci] does not want to talk about. Although he was not in charge [of the CIA’s Congo activities in 1960], he was involved in what was going on. It is a part of his history. The honorable thing to do would have been to acknowledge that the Americans helped in doing away with a man who could have helped that region—that they supported Mobutu, who for decades led a brutal dictatorship which caused enormous suffering. I think the incident shows the extremes to which people like Carlucci will go to cover up actions they know were wrong—even to censoring a movie.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/03/carl-m15.html



CIA never told President-elect Kennedy they were planning to assassinate Lumumba. Perhaps they assumed a President-elect Nixon would've approved.

These are gangsters, at heart, malaise. Thieving, mass murdering, racist gangsters who shot their way into power in Dallas.
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
18. Theres always SOMETHING to bitch about
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:12 PM
Aug 2013

I dont get it. The 2 maps I have at home, and I just went and looked at them to be sure, show Africa WAY larger than the us and europe, and yes, even Greenland. And they've got quite a few years on them too. One of them I've had since high school and thats a lot older than I want to admit. I dont think I've ever seen a map like the one in the clip with Africa so tiny.
Yes, lets flip the world upside down on the map, that'll really help the students of today learn the continents better, wont it.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
44. I have found that a flipped map forces you to look at the globe in a "new light"
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 07:17 PM
Aug 2013

so to speak. I have one of those flipped maps, had it for many years. It can be a challenge to find some of the tiny European countries, but you end up learning all the ones nearby first.

And if you think about it, if you're in a plane, flying from north to south, you're seeing the world "upside down"

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
20. A friend of mine who just finished some NGO work in Africa
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:24 PM
Aug 2013

Tells me she is very worried by the growing Chinese presence there- she fears they my try to de-facto colonize Africa and exploit the labor as the rising middle class in China makes exploiting cheap labor there more and more difficult.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
31. One of the reasons USA created AfricaCom
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:17 PM
Aug 2013

BIG undeclared currency and resource wars going on in Africa.
Suddenly soe African countires are being destabilized, leaders being taken out one way or the other.
Destabilized countries are much much easier to control and exploit....Iraq being a perfect example/

pampango

(24,692 posts)
21. Africa is huge with 1+ billion people. What if they start manufacturing stuff the way Asians have
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:32 PM
Aug 2013

over the past few decades. What if they don't? Is there a different development path for them?

malaise

(268,921 posts)
22. All I know is that it must be hard to catch up when millions of your healthiest people
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:36 PM
Aug 2013

were stolen to work for others as slaves.
Africa's people will survive. I hope they never go the manufacturing route and pollute that magnificent continent full of resources.
I see lots of people lining up to steal Africa's water and other resources these days.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
28. So true. I hope they figure out another development path and can implement it successfully.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:01 PM
Aug 2013

They deserve it. A beautiful continent with more people than North America or Europe.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
35. If "the manufacturing route" will make them prosperous, that's what they should do.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:26 PM
Aug 2013

It's a little presumptive to expect Africa to be an enormous exotic theme park for the enjoyment of European and American tourists.

Orrex

(63,200 posts)
23. Cool, but...
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:38 PM
Aug 2013

I see that one of the "popular" articles from that site is a cushy piece about the dangerous and pathological opportunist Andrew Wakefield.


Alas.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
25. I learned navigation before GPS and computers.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:46 PM
Aug 2013

Back then I learned that the Mercator projection was the ONLY projection that allowed one to draw a rhumb line on it. A rhumb line connects any two points with a straight line path that has the same true compass bearing at all points. It is next to impossible, without GPS & computers, to steer a great circle (shortest distance) route as the compass bearing is constantly changing. So the navigator will plot several points of the great circle route on a mercator projection, draw rhumb lines connecting the points, and then tell the pilot or helmsman to steer a particular compass heading until a certain time or place, the make a course change to the new heading. Such a course is a little bit longer, but much easier to steer.

For hundreds of years navigators demanded mercator maps, so they became the standard that everybody used.

That is why the Mercator projection became so popular.

When navigating in the arctic regions, the advantages of the mercator loose ground to the disadvantages and one has to switch to a different method.

Orrex

(63,200 posts)
27. Very interesting, and I had never heard any of that before!
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:50 PM
Aug 2013

I've never studied cartography, but the particular value of Mercator that you cite never once came up in any of my geography courses or the like.

Thanks!

derby378

(30,252 posts)
43. Agreed - both Mercator and Peters are full of shit
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 07:09 PM
Aug 2013

I'm more favorably inclined towards Robinson, Kavrayskiy VII, and maybe and Winkel tripel. There's always going to be an issue with mapping a sphere onto a flat plane, but these projections seem to be heading in the right direction.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
39. This is one of the most useful conversations that has been ignored
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 06:50 PM
Aug 2013

The West Wing addressed some very valid points, but making the scenario humorous was a mistake.

malaise

(268,921 posts)
48. I disagree
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 07:33 PM
Aug 2013

Sometimes humor is the only way to elicit a serious discussion about a controversial subject

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
49. That's a good point
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 08:00 PM
Aug 2013

And very often true. But I didn't feel like the left much room for viewers to stop ad think in that scene.

TheMightyFavog

(13,770 posts)
45. There was a French couple who walked from Cape Town to the Sea of Gallilee about ten years back...
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 07:21 PM
Aug 2013

IIRC, the trip took them a little over about two years.

mimi85

(1,805 posts)
54. Australia isn't there either...
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 08:51 PM
Aug 2013

I don't think not putting Alaska or Australia or the poles are the point of the map. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
52. thank you for posting this, malaise
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 08:37 PM
Aug 2013

I am going to order some of these maps and put them up in my 4th grade classroom. When the kids ask about the difference between them and their social studies text books, I will explain that they are more accurate in showing land mass size and the others are a holdover from earlier times. I probably won't get into the cultural imperialism aspect of it (the grade level and area I live in prevent that.) But if I make the point the maps they see in books aren't accurate, some will make the connection when they are older.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
55. This isn't "map dishonesty" -- it's map mathematics
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 03:48 AM
Aug 2013

Two important bits of information from a map relate to a trip between any two points: the direction you go to get from A to B, and the distance.

It is mathematically impossible for a flat map to portray a spherical surface in a way that will be perfectly accurate as to both those questions.

I'm inclined to doubt that there was a decision based on "cultural imperialism" to use a map that made Africa seem smaller (and therefore, presumably, less important) than it appears on other maps. I mean, it's still pretty big on any of the maps. Furthermore, there was no rush to colonize Greenland just because Mercator made it look bigger than South America. It seems more likely that people just preferred a map that was better on getting the direction right, as explained by GreenStormCloud in #25.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
57. But it's much more fun to pretend that Mercator was a racist imperialist
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 10:11 AM
Aug 2013

who deliberately concocted a projection that made Africa look too small.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The real size of the Afri...