Obama: ‘I Don’t Think Mr. Snowden Was A Patriot’

[ProSense]

Obama: ‘I Don’t Think Mr. Snowden Was A Patriot’

President Barack Obama said Friday that he didn't believe Edward Snowden, who leaked classified information about National Security Agency data collection programs to several news publications, was a "patriot."

The president said in a press conference that he had signed executive orders offering whistleblower protection to the intelligence community, so there there were "other avenues" available to someone like Snowden "whose conscience was stirred and thought they needed to question government actions."

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-i-dont-think-mr-snowden-was-patriot

[Wait Wut]

1. Ditto, Mr. President.

Then again, today's 'patriot' isn't what I was raised to believe was a patriot.

[Tikki]

10. I agree...same sentiment.

Tikki

[Mojorabbit]

20. I am almost 60 and I think exposing wrongdoing has always been patriotic. nt

[mindwalker_i]

76. Exactly! It's highly patriotic of a person

to take a huge personal risk - a risk of being waterboarded, stuck in solitary confinement for months - to let the people here know that their government is breaking the law, specifically the constitution. The people defending the government for breaking the law/constitution are NOT patriotic. By that, I mean that they are not helping the country.

[leftstreet]

2. Meh. The 'Patriot' Act isn't either n/t

[HereSince1628]

6. It's important to remember that the acts title is a NeoCon acronym

One of the things about the neocons is that they thought it was funny how they could hide terrible things like moving to the dark side right out in the open.

The meaning behind U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act of 2001 is just such a thing, and the neocons were basically correct, few people in the US really care to look closely at anything and readily accept a deception.

U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. stands for Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

89. Wasn't it passed unanimously, and continues to pass both parties

So there is some bipartisanship there.

I think only one brave soul said no the first time around.

Unfortunately

[HereSince1628]

105. According to press accounts, my senator was the only one that bothered to read it.

Which mostly goes to suggest that the pattern of giving superficial attention to important documents reaches into the Congress.

Of course such dereliction of duty is just what any cabal of evil doers depend upon when they implement shock doctrine to destroy the rule of law.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

106. right

and feigning ignorance at the time may be true to some extent, however, that doesn't fly today.

[Robbins]

3. Snowden

If he was a patriot why not face up to what he did,force a public trial,and accept responabilty.Instead he runs off to russia responable for more abuses than the NSA scandal.Being upset over program and running to russia undercuts any credibilty snowden has.I just
can't believe all the support he has on here.

[Vinnie From Indy]

8. Two words...

Bradley Manning

[arely staircase]

12. weak nt

[Mojorabbit]

21. No, the point. The way he has exposed this has guaranteed that

the information would be discussed globally. If he was looking to effect change, he has done so in a brilliant manner.

[arely staircase]

27. yeah he's brilliant

quite the chess player that Mr. I-don't-want-to-live-in-a-country-that-spies-on-its-citizens-so-I'm-defecting-to-Russia.

[Mojorabbit]

32. !

[MNBrewer]

49. Why do you think he wound up in Russia, instead of one of the other nations he applied to

for asylum? Our government put pressure on them not to accept him. Russia was where he was, and is seemingly where he will stay. Not because of HIS desires, however.

[arely staircase]

57. I don't think he deserves asylum anywhere

If he had simply released the FISA court stuff (which wasn't new, but did draw important attention and renewed efforts to amend/repeal the PATRIOT ACT) I would have more sympathy for him, as would a lot of other Americans. If he had stayed here and faced the music he would have gotten ten years at most, and had a pretty good chance at acquittal or a hung jury.

[MNBrewer]

60. I'm sure you believe all of that, and so what?

I don't believe you actually would have more "sympathy" for him. How much "sympathy" do you have for Bradley Manning?

[arely staircase]

86. I have quite a bit more sympathy for Manning

I think he actually revealed some crimes. However, I think Manning's release of unrelated documents makes him criminally liable. 10 years minus time served is about right for Manning. Snowden needs the book thrown at him for his china/Russia adventure.

[Marr]

82. Why would anyone care about your sympathy?

Or your respect? I mean, let's be honest-- you'd despise the guy even if he'd stayed in the states and been arrested. How many "sympathetic" things did you say about Bradley Manning?

[arely staircase]

83. oh I definitely think he sucks

hope he will be in prison soon.

traitor that he is.

[Marr]

85. I know. The critics really have a bizarre level of hatred for this man.

I don't get it personally, but whatever floats your prison barge.

[arely staircase]

87. nah, disgust for traitors isn't bizarre nt

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

95. It is similar with others who spoke truth to power

In their time, but given time, the judgements are often reveresed.

Ever ask yourself that question of a historical figure who was horribly mistreated and pilloried in their time, how could people back them have been so narrow minded, or worse...

And then take it a step forward, and wonder how you would have acted?

Now is one of those times, and would give you a good indication of how you would have acted then based on your actions today.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

91. I do

So I was glad to hear he got multiple offers, especially in that it will inspire others that they won't have to resign themselves to torture, or worse in American prisons.

In fact, that is actually the best outcome of all thus far.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

90. Ouch, the irony is rich

And that you don't even get it, PRICELESS

[treestar]

34. that one is so lame

1. Snowy is a civilian
2. Snowy can avoid suicide threats

And still no excuse for not using the whistleblower protections.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

98. FYI: the totalitarians forbid whistleblower protection for Intel workers

[Marr]

81. That's such an absurd position to take.

It's easy for you to casually suggest the man spend the rest of his life in a small cage. Perhaps he'd like to, oh I don't know... see the sun occasionally?

If a person discovers government wrongdoing, why in the hell would you expect them to

a. go through the government appointed cover-up channels and

b. give that government an easy opportunity to lock them up for the rest of their life?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

88. Life behind bars, torture, murder, is the US

Rep today, unfortunately

[CakeGrrl]

4. He's not. He cut and ran rather than stand up for his "beliefs"

In Russia, a hotbed of oppression and suppression of free speech.

That alone discredits any claim to his 'cause'.

[Mojorabbit]

22. You are the first Democrat I have ever seen using the republican term, cut and run. nt

[MADem]

47. Insinuating that a long term DUer is a Republican is an argument failure.

Would you have preferred "pranced away?" How about "skee-daddled?" Or "skulked off?"

I remember "cut and run" being used on TV shows like Dragnet and Bonanza.

The GOP didn't invent the term.

[Mojorabbit]

52. Not insinuating anything. Just an observation. I have never heard a Dem use that term before. nt

[MADem]

59. I don't buy that. It's like the "When did you stop beating your wife?" question.

It's an indirect insinuation, and there was no need for it.

[Mojorabbit]

66. Perhaps in your mind it is but I intended nothing of the kind.Good evening.nt

[MADem]

67. Well, your "observation" stunk like an insult--and I don't think I am the only one who noticed.

Have a good one!

[Amonester]

75. I can confirm.

Noticed it here too.

Weak attempt, failed, then ran away.

[Mojorabbit]

78. Reading a novel and having a glass of wine.

This place has gone crazy lately. I expect someone on the board next to post. "These colors don't run" USA USA
Have to look twice to make sure I am at the right place anymore.

[Amonester]

80. Bourgeois! :)

I agree the level of hair-on-fire hyperbole is quite stunningly high.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

58. I think of Mean Jean Schmidt in red, white, & blue as soon as I hear that detestible phrase

Remember when she was a freshman, and the GOP caucus put her up to insinuating that John Murtha was a coward with her "cowards don't cut and run" bullshit? Yeah, she's really someone to emulate, isn't she?

[Mojorabbit]

62. That was my first thought also. It was a visceral reaction, hearing that phrase again. nt

[CakeGrrl]

64. Do you want put a ban on the phrase

to protect from having your visceral reactions?

Are there other triggers people should be aware of when posting?

[Mojorabbit]

65. If I were queen of the world I would. But I am not so have at it.

The phrase gives me the creeps.

[CakeGrrl]

63. Seriously?

That term's been around for years.

Are you down to trying to accuse people of not being 'real' Democrats?

[Cha]

72. snowden's a ron paul lovin' libertarian who hates Social Security and

doesn't mind Putin's Russia.. so I think the term is apt.

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

.

[bowens43]

5. Again? Seriously?

Obama's opinion on this issue is irrelevant.

[JoePhilly]

7. So a sitting President's opinion on leaks is

irrelevant.

ok.

[Skidmore]

9. I don't know about that.

He has as much right to an opinion as any other citizen on the subject, perhaps even more so since he is the one who must try to get this mash up that Congress has cobbled together and abandoned to work. Funny how people like to pretend that Congress doesn't exist or isn't relevant. That nothing they do or don't do is germane to any issue at hand.

[Logical]

11. She physically cannot stop. It is like she cannot say "I might of been wrong" n-t

[Skidmore]

13. Apparently, neither can you.

Knee jerking appears to be epidemic.

[Logical]

14. What was I wrong about? n-t

[ProSense]

19. No,

"She physically cannot stop. It is like she cannot say "I might of been wrong" "

...I'm not "wrong." Snowden fled to Russia. Just because he's your hero doesn't mean he's everyone's.

Rep. John Lewis: No Praise for Snowden
Aug 8, 2013

“News reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading, and they do not reflect my complete opinion. Let me be clear. I do not agree with what Mr. Snowden did. He has damaged American international relations and compromised our national security. He leaked classified information and may have jeopardized human lives. That must be condemned.

“ I never praised Mr. Snowden or said his actions rise to those of Mohandas Gandhi or other civil rights leaders. In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word “praise” from its headline.

“At the end of an interview about the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I was asked what I thought about Mr. Snowden’s actions. I said he has a right as an individual to act according to the dictates of his conscience, but he must be prepared to pay the price for taking that action. In the movement, we were arrested, we went to jail, we were prepared to pay the price, even lose our lives if necessary. I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908

[treestar]

35. lol

to you maybe. Your opinion is pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things.

[dkf]

15. Certainly not a "patriot" to the surveillance state, rule by secrecy and decimation of the 4th...

That's the new regime we are expected to bow down to.

Forget the constitution. This is no longer relevant to the law of the land of secret laws and secret courts and secret evidence.

[msongs]

16. pass a law to allow it, voila, it is suddenly legal. where did we see this before? nt

[sufrommich]

17. I agree with the president.nt

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

18. Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of news that Tyranny is coming!

Last edited Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:55 AM - Edit history (1)

Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of news that Tyranny is coming!

Edward Snowden's Dad Calls Him 'Modern Day Paul Revere'
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/edward-snowdens-dad-calls-modern-day-paul-revere/story?id=19554337

Hmmm... who knew how influential a DU meme could be

[millennialmax]

23. Too bad your meme is based on a common misconception.

http://www.paul-revere-heritage.com/myths-and-facts.html

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

28. I think it works for most

[arely staircase]

29. i like the paul revere in a coon skin hat

[zappaman]

30. Shhhh!!!!

Poster likes to post this in almost every thread.
Don't ruin it for him!!!!

[arely staircase]

37. even the pro-snowden people think it is embarrassing

so palinesque

[sheshe2]

51. Thanks for that link, millennialmax!

Every time I see him post that I feel like ing~

[arely staircase]

36. he can see russia!

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

70. And not from a jail cell

Thats what has the totalitarian pirates shitt'n all over themselves.

[arely staircase]

71. No doubt

The KGB (or whatever they are going by these days) is undoubtedly using more carrot than stick, for now.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

73. And that he was able to escape the clutches of the US pirates will inspire more

PATRIOTS

[arely staircase]

74. how ironic nt

[Bobbie Jo]

110. Yup

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Scurrilous]

24. K & R

[Safetykitten]

25. And he is somewhat lousy as a President. So?

[arely staircase]

33. and you have over three more years of butthurt

[Egnever]

93. .

[Life Long Dem]

26. I don't think anyone should be using the word patriot

[treestar]

31. Amen!

There is no excuse for not using the whistleblower protections. Had he tried and not succeeded, then he might have a case.

[Thinkingabout]

38. I agree with the president, patriot and Snowden are on two opposite ends. If Snowden was

Interested in following protocol in revealing wrong doing then he could be considered a patriot, as it stands he is a thief and spy, he has been charged with espionage along with other charges. Do I think his puppet masters wants him to return to the USA, more than likely not, Snowden would probably reveal the puppet masters.

[WillyT]

39. People Who Just May Be Violating Their Oaths Of Office They Swore To, Should...

Be Careful Throwing The Word "Patriot" Around.

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of ______________, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

And I am NOT just talking about the President. There seems to be gobs of Official America that skirt the oaths they have sworn to.

[ProSense]

43. "And I am NOT just talking about the President."

The President is the one who said it.

[WillyT]

44. And He's One Of Many In Official Washington To Do So...

[Progressive dog]

40. I agree with the President

Patriots don't run from their country.

[Octafish]

41. He's no George Herbert Walker Bush.

Which shows how different our concepts of "patriot" are.

[arely staircase]

42. let me guess. you think Bush I was in on the Kennedy assasination

don't you?

[Octafish]

45. Don't know why else he would laugh about it.

There may be an innocent explanation, but I don't know what that would be. Poppy should tell what he knows in regards to that day -- a memory which brought back a chuckle to him at the funeral for Gerald Ford.



Poppy Bush brought up JFK Assassination and ''Conspiracy Theorists'' at Ford Funeral

And people wonder why Corporate McPravda barely grumbled when the same guy, years later, pardoned Caspar Weinberger and the rest of his Iran-Contra traitor co-conspirators.

[arely staircase]

46. he couldn't possibly be chuckling because he thinks the CTs are laughable?

you consider this to be proof? and the documents you posted show him turning someone in for threatening Kennedy.

[Octafish]

50. Not exactly. Poppy reported his suspicions to the FBI only AFTER JFK was dead.

No theory. Just facts:

TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY

At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #

This is another FBI memo, dated the following week, in which a "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" was briefed in regards to the feelings of the pro- and anti-Castro Cuban communities in Miami.

Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #

I don't know what role, if any, George H.W. Bush played in the assassination of President Kennedy. I do know Poppy Bush has never explained these memos. He's never explained why he didn't warn the Secret Service or the FBI BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION. He's never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed. Seeing how he would go on to become President, as would his dim son, I believe it's vitally important that we learn the Truth.

Do you have any ideas about these documents from the National Archives, arely staircase? What are your thoughts, if any?

Oh, and BTW: Poppy said to the New York Times of April 14, 1990: ''Let’s forgive the NAZI war criminals.'' Guy's into moving on, Big Time.

[arely staircase]

54. I have seen them before.

And you are right, it was afterword. But it would seem like he was sharing info that he thought might be relevant to the case, hardly the act of a man in on a conspiracy to frame Oswald. I think the reason Poppy has been silent about his activities at that point in his career is that he was indeed already working for US intel. at that point. I think he probably was involved in the Bay of Pigs somehow.

[Octafish]

107. What do you make of the Poppy Bush-George deMohrenschildt connection?

Oswald's white Russian friend and apparent CIA minder was an associate of George HW Bush. After deMohrenschildt's death by shotgun in the mouth, investigators from the House Select Committee on Assassination found an address book containing an entry for "Bush, George H. W. (Poppy), 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum, Midland" as well as kids' names and birthdays. It really is a small world.

"The Last Investigation" (New York: Thunder's Mouth Press, 1993), p. 358n, by Gaeton Fonzi.

[arely staircase]

108. don't know about him

like I said, I do think he (Poppy) was CIA way back. But I think it is a huge leap to go from that to Kennedy assassination conspiracy. BTW - I am sorry if I have been rude to you in the past. I think your theories are a little out there but you have always been civil and I not so much. I will try to keep my differing opinions polite.

[Octafish]

114. Here's something every Democrat and person who cares about democracy should see...

Footage from Love Field on 22 November 1963, found, IIRC, in a dumpster outside ABC Dallas in the late 90's:

Vince Palamara: An important discovery was made by this correspondent during review of video of the Dallas trip shot by the ABC television affiliate in that city. During the start of the fatal motorcade at Love Field, Secret Service agent Don Lawton begins to jog alongside the presidential limousine. He is immediately called back by his shift leader and commander of the follow-up car detail, Emory P. Roberts.



Video: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/171830/secret_service_jfk /

Afterward, in William Manchester's book, Death of a President, we see the "official story" of what was supposed to have happened to all the Secret Service agents:

"Kennedy grew weary of seeing bodyguards roosting behind him every time he turned around, and in Tampa on November 18 (1963), just four days before his death, he dryly asked Agent Floyd Boring to 'keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car.' Boring wasn't offended. There had been no animosity in the remark." (1988 Harper & Row/Perennial Library edition, pp. 37-38)

The thing is PRESIDENT KENNEDY NEVER SAID THAT.

Not until 35 years later do we learn the truth, though, when the great investigator Vincent Palamara asked the Secret Service agents who were there what happened in 1963:

Agents Go On Record

PS: Thank you for the kind reply, arely staircase. Due to the subject matters when writing about the crimes of the national security state, I very much appreciate it.

[MADem]

48. Here's a patriot.

He doesn't approve of Snowden's actions, either.

[Mojorabbit]

55. This is a true patriot, the other not in my book so

you have proved the poster that you are responding to is correct.

[MADem]

61. I'm not "proving" anything. I'm just posting a picture of an icon I admire.

One who had something very specific to say about Snowden's actions, fwiw.

[ProSense]

56. Nice photo. n/t

[arely staircase]

69. yep

that is what a patriot looks like.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

84. Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of news that Tyranny is coming!

Another patriot

[JaneyVee]

92. Wouldn't Paul Revere be the NSA?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

96. No.

He's the one who broke the law of the land by passing secret gov information, much more sensitive than what snowden revealed, troop movements, to we the people.

It's a very popular story in America, you should read up on it, I think you will like it.

[JaneyVee]

97. Wasn't he warning of a foreign invasion?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

100. Ah, no. They were the legal authorities. You should read up on the period.

[JaneyVee]

101. Which Paul Revere event are you referring to?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

102. Listen my children and you shall hear Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere, On the eighteenth of Apri

Listen my children and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five;
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.

Try google, you'll get a lot of info on him.

Good luck, and enjoy.

[JaneyVee]

103. The British are coming?

Kinda like Al-Qaeda is coming. The NSA warns of such tyranny. Snowden gave up our troop movements.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

104. Wrong, as everyone was British then, he said the RED COATS are coming.

You really gotta read up more on your history.

[MADem]

99. What, no etching? nt

[Mojorabbit]

53. I love you. Perfect post. nt

[Cha]

68. Lol.. the first comment under the TPM statement from PBO..

Berkshire_Boy • 5 hours ago• 9 upvotes −+

Cue Glenn Greenwald ranting about how Snowden would have been water-boarded or some such thing if he had not run for his life after spilling the beans. POTUS has it right on this one.

Except snowden ran before he spilled. The Iceland gig didn't work out for him so now he's Putin's Puppet but no worries..

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

We're talkin' "the first" here!1!1

[Amonester]

77. Thanks for the link, Cha.

I guess Snowden doesn't know a peep about how great human rights GLBT and other groups have in Russia.

No courage, and ignoramus to boot.

[Cha]

79. Or care.. is my guess, Amonester

[arely staircase]

94. the MVP list of human rights nt

[Rex]

109. I don't think he is a whistleblower.

Apples to oranges I guess.

[rug]

111. So he thinks Snowden is what?

[ProSense]

112. Not a "patriot." n/t

[rug]

113. That's what he thinks he's not. What does he think he is?

[SidDithers]

115. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Scurrilous]

116. K & R