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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo . . . . weren't we told Al Kaida was "decimated"? Now we need to worry cuz Al is about to blow?
No travel to Pakistan.
Close a lot of embassies.
Warn traveling Americans to be afraid; be VERY afraid.
So which is it?
Al is strong? Al is decimated?
Al is a threat? Al ain't shit?
We were right when we said he was decimated but that was then and this is now?
This is all sorta fucking with the messaging.
Maybe the NSA is fucking with the messaging for their own purposes?
Maybe our Chatter Detector is broken?
Hydra
(14,459 posts)One day we may find out...Al wasn't who we thought he was!
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I forgot.
Who is it now?
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Response to bvar22 (Reply #2)
MisterP This message was self-deleted by its author.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)or terrorize an entire city as in Mumbai (although that attack was carried out by a different group -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks
Or is Al Quadia limited to tossing a bomb at an embassy?
The second Al Qudia is much smaller than the first, but still capable of causing harm, so it makes sense to move people out of harm's way.
Igel
(35,300 posts)The original, main AQ that Zawahri's heading after bin Ladin bit the big one?
AQ in the Arabian Peninsula, which is a different organization with its own hierarchy and coordinates with the main AQ when it suits them?
AQ in the Maghreb, which is the one over in Tunisia and Morocco and (yes) Mali, which is a different organization with its own hierarchy and also coordinates with the main AQ when it suits them?
Notice that the Maghreb isn't the same as Cyrenaica, which would be Libya and W. Egypt.
Remember AQ in Iraq? The guy from Zarqaa (a town in Jordan) was in charge--al-Zarqawi.
How about AQ in al-Shur? (Syria, that is.)
Lots of AQs. Think of them as franchises. If you don't keep them straight, you'll keep yourself muddled.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)It's hard to think of an organization as shadowy and sinister if you know they're headed by a guy named Phil. Or Abdul, for that matter. We're constantly led to believe that it takes everything we've got to try keeping up with these shadowy characters who are part of a massive underground network of evildoers who can strike at the US whenever and wherever they'd like. We need an oversized, scary bogeyman to justify the trillions we're spending, ostensibly because 3000 died on 9/11. At this point in history, this is just a line fed to the rubes. That's not to say some extremists don't want to hurt the US, but we've lied about their capabilities and size and scariness for a long time.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)It *IS* a guy named Phil. And a few crazies hellbent on destruction. Anybody can believe that. Its the constant bullshit that causes us to mock TPTB and their Tales of Bad Guys In Arabee.
When nutters like Frank Gaffney try to to make the case, we can do nothing but laugh out loud at him. But when I hear the same shit from guys who are *supposed* to be on my side, I just get pissed.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)Autumn
(45,057 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)But we love you anyway.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I'm always surprised when I see the same points in Conservative media repeated on DU.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Can you say the same for Laura Ingraham?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Is Laura Ingraham a gay man?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)From your link, its clear Sullivan crosses over regarding much more than gay rights...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10167854?com=search
All these decisions deserve scrutiny. And in retrospect, they were far more successful than anyone has yet fully given Obama the credit for. The job collapse bottomed out at the beginning of 2010, as the stimulus took effect. Since then, the U.S. has added 2.4 million jobs. Thats not enough, but its far better than what Romney would have you believe, and more than the net jobs created under the entire Bush administration. In 2011 alone, 1.9 million private-sector jobs were created, while a net 280,000 government jobs were lost. Overall government employment has declined 2.6 percent over the past 3 years. (That compares with a drop of 2.2 percent during the early years of the Reagan administration.) To listen to current Republican rhetoric about Obamas big-government socialist ways, you would imagine that the reverse was true. It isnt.
...
The great conservative bugaboo, Obamacare, is also far more moderate than its critics have claimed. The Congressional Budget Office has projected it will reduce the deficit, not increase it dramatically, as Bushs unfunded Medicare Prescription Drug benefit did. It is based on the individual mandate, an idea pioneered by the archconservative Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich, and, of course, Mitt Romney, in the past. It does not have a public option; it gives a huge new client base to the drug and insurance companies; its health-insurance exchanges were also pioneered by the right. Its to the right of the Clintons monstrosity in 1993, and remarkably similar to Nixons 1974 proposal. Its passage did not preempt recovery efforts; it followed them. It needs improvement in many ways, but the administration is open to further reform and has agreed to allow states to experiment in different ways to achieve the same result. It is not, as Romney insists, a one-model, top-down prescription. Like Obamas Race to the Top education initiative, it sets standards, grants incentives, and then allows individual states to experiment. Embedded in it are also a slew of cost-reduction pilot schemes to slow health-care spending. Yes, it crosses the Rubicon of universal access to private health care. But since federal law mandates that hospitals accept all emergency-room cases requiring treatment anyway, we already obey that socialist principlebut in the most inefficient way possible. Making 44 million current free-riders pay into the system is not fiscally reckless; it is fiscally prudent. It is, dare I say it, conservative.
...
On foreign policy, the right-wing critiques have been the most unhinged. Romney accuses the president of apologizing for America, and others all but accuse him of treason and appeasement. Instead, Obama reversed Bushs policy of ignoring Osama bin Laden, immediately setting a course that eventually led to his capture and death. And when the moment for decision came, the president overruled both his secretary of state and vice president in ordering the riskiestbut most ambitiousplan on the table. He even personally ordered the extra helicopters that saved the mission. It was a triumph, not only in killing Americas primary global enemy, but in getting a massive trove of intelligence to undermine al Qaeda even further. If George Bush had taken out bin Laden, wiped out al Qaedas leadership, and gathered a treasure trove of real intelligence by a daring raid, hed be on Mount Rushmore by now. But where Bush talked tough and acted counterproductively, Obama has simply, quietly, relentlessly decimated our real enemies, while winning the broader propaganda war. Since he took office, al Qaedas popularity in the Muslim world has plummeted.
...
If I sound biased, thats because I am. Biased toward the actual record, not the spin; biased toward a president who has conducted himself with grace and calm under incredible pressure, who has had to manage crises not seen since the Second World War and the Depression, and who as yet has not had a single significant scandal to his name. To see what is in front of ones nose needs a constant struggle, George Orwell once wrote. What I see in front of my nose is a president whose character, record, and promise remain as grotesquely underappreciated now as they were absurdly hyped in 2008. And I feel confident that sooner rather than later, the American people will come to see his first term from the same calm, sane perspective. And decide to finish what they started.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)No one here believes for a minute that if you weren't helping Fox News that would be on there more than once.
You help give Fox that "fair and balanced" credibility, stop coming on DU and slamming people that won't even listen to that garbage.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)The Hard Right Wing & a "Centrist" Democrat.
WhatEVER is In-the-Middle of THOSE Two,
Is Good Enough for ME!!!
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)game.
Interesting tactic. I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but it's clear you have no rebuttal to my last statement.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I was just coming back to my original point, that has nothing to do with moving the goalposts. Fox News at least thinks you help them catapult their propaganda, you would not be on there the second time if they didn't let alone multiple times thereafter.
If it weren't for your ceaseless self promotion I wouldn't even know you are a regular on Fox, I don't own a TV and wouldn't watch Fox on a bet, I value my sanity more than that.
Lie down with dogs and get up with fleas.
ETA: Also your comment about Sullivan was interesting, "He's with us *some* of the time".
So anyone who is "with us" "some of the time" is OK in your book?
Or is lockstep agreement with the administration only necessary for those on the left?
RC
(25,592 posts)Why?
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)I'm impressed. I haven't watched Fox in years. I haven't watched MSNBC in weeks. I have no clue what the windbags are saying, but obviously you do. Take your beef up with them, not me.
By the way. I stand by my implication. Do you stand by yours?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And yes, I try to keep close watch on them.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Hahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha
:snort:
Oh Mi Gawd.
Hahahahahahahaaha
Alan, izzat you?
Hahahahahahaha
AAAAAAAhahahaha
Fox Nooz.
Oh.
Oh me.
Bye Steve.
Hahahaha
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)All your flailing about and attempts to change the subject won't change that.
spanone
(135,827 posts)ignoring them will not make them go away.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)Both sides do it!
TBF
(32,050 posts)not just conservatives.
It's pretty suspicious that as soon as people start seriously questioning the NSA funding that all of a sudden there's tons of chatter. I'd say it under either administration ... and I would hope most folks here know my political philosophy (if you don't come visit the socialist progressives group).
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)They said it was part of the "cover-up."
Yes, it started as a Republican talking point. And it shouldn't become a DU one. Although a helluva lot of RW talking points are on DU these days. But they try to call them "libertarian" and supposedly that's OK.
TBF
(32,050 posts)Look I know the repugs and libertarians will complain up & down about any and everything the President does. But others of us who generally support the president are allowed to ask questions as well. And believe me I mocked GWB's fucking color-coded "terra" system and Dick Cheney (who I am quite convinced made most of those Al Queda tapes in some PR room somewhere).
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)RW pundits.
It's actually really simple. The "MAIN" Al Qaeda is pretty much done. There are affiliates now who are causing the problem.
I expect deliberate obtuseness to be used to make cheap shots against the President from the right, not from DUers.
TBF
(32,050 posts)I don't want to repeat myself, but I can see your point as well in terms of the OP being somewhat inflammatory in nature.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Bullshit being fed by people whop are supposed to be on the same side as the OP.
TBF
(32,050 posts)but I can see both sides of the argument.
It is very hard to sort out the Middle East and terrorist issues. While I believe both political parties have used terror issues to manipulate folks in the US, I can also understand why folks in that region hate our country so much.
And you have every right to be pissed off - no argument there.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)stuff.
So, I'm going to just discuss what I know and ignore Stinky's snark. Because on the basic question I can see there could be some confusion.
AQ never was tightly organized to begin with. What org there was centered around Bin Laden who started it in Pakistan and later moved mostly to Afghanistan. Lots of followers started their own operations in different places around the world. When Bin Laden was killed and since American troops are still in Afghanistan, AQ Arabian Peninsula became probably the strongest group.
The intercepted communication between Ayman al-Zawahiri and Nasir al-Wuhayshi (Bin Laden's successor and the head of AQAP, respectively) probably means that al-Zawahiri intends to strengthen the organization again and attempt to centralize control. It remains to be seen whether he can do this. AQAP is a force in its own right and may not welcome playing second fiddle.
That's how I see it. Here's a good article about recent events.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-09/al-qaeda-militants-die-in-yemen-drone-strike-sahwa-says.html
In this Wikipedia entry, note on the left side the number of AQ in Syria.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda
TBF
(32,050 posts)I will read them and get myself more up to date on the current details.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Those accusations turned out to be mistakes, and while we will never know for sure because no one would admit it either way, I wonder if those constant accusations of "Wag the dog" in some way caused Clinton to not press as hard against Al Qaeda and somehow contributed to 9/11 happening.
TBF
(32,050 posts)but I think it's just as likely that Al Qeada has been a convenient bogey-man. I don't care much for conspiracy theories, as there is plenty to complain about without even going there, but I did note that Benazir Bhutto was killed not long after telling news sources that Bin Laden was already dead (that was 2007 - under Bush). That has always made me suspicious of terror "chatter" that happens conveniently as other news needs to be drowned out.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts). . . . releasing a tape at election time that allowed the right wing vote tampering to keep smaller and therefor more easily hidden.
What bothers me is that a guy who is ostensibly on our side is in power, the same people who got righteously pissed about Idiot Son's people doing it are all just A-okay Hunky Dory about the same sort of shit happening now.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)The OP wants the uninformed or the amen chorus to ignore that the Administration made a distinction between terrorists in Yemen and Pakistan and terrorism Inc. The alerts covered a wide region initially because that was prudent, the shutdowns now only cover Yemen and one city in the most terrorist region of Pakistan. The OP won't mention any of that because that counters the fallacy that is being pushed.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)been one of those folks I face off against on Fox and no one would have noticed the difference. He is literally making the same point.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)By the way, that's a new, modern unit of measure, a haffacolmes.
See, here's the thing. read the OP. It isn't factual. It isn't intended to be factual. It is hyperbolic. It is intended to get all you guys atwitter, parsing and historizing and listing and pointing outing and all the other things you do in the face of abject bullshit.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)originality and cleverness, you make up in predictability. That's something in your favor, at least, I suppose.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)You're the one doing the defending.
I'm not going to argue this on arcane facts. I am going to point out the obvious source of the smell of bullshit. You keep taking a lick at me, but the fact is, you have nothing to say. Same as me. This is pixel masturbation.
You trust the guy. I do not. It really is that simple. I think the country is being lied to. You don't Nothing I say willc hange your mind and nothing you say will change mine.
So why not have some fun? This ain't serious, man. You know why? Cus we have less impact than a fart in a summer breeze. Think about that next time you and Laura make words.
Bye.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Possible they meant it literally, rather than the American figurative 'practically destroyed'.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Decimating a Legion was a (fucking harsh) punishment, and today it is vaguely defined as being something really bad.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)As long as we're flogging the language. Incredible means "not credible". It doesn't mean amazing or wonderful.
As you point out, perhaps we were deceived by somebody actually using the language correctly. Serves us right.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)of a sudden they are a huge threat again. Definitely curious.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)How hard is it to become a terrorist, really? It isn't as if you have to get a doctorate in terrorism. You really only need:
1) A clear sense of who is the enemy
2) To be really pissed off; and
3) Will to do anything, including sacrificing your life.
And do you know what can do all three at the same time?
That's right. Now let's do the math. How many missiles have predators fired since we killed Osama?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And with the BushCo factions of the military still giving arms to AQ & buddies.....I'm afraid it won't be over for a long time.
We NEED to get the neocons and other crooks outta there. Period.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)They get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and now they hold our cookies in their hands.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)The perfect bogey-man for the 21st century, he's whatever they need whenever they need it to get the flock bleating.
Qutzupalotl
(14,302 posts)He referred to his earlier statements that said the AQ *leadership* was indeed decimated and severely limited in their ability to attack the US, but there remain affiliated groups such as AQAP with the capability to, for instance, drive a truck bomb into an embassy. That is what they are responding to.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)We have hundreds of billions in secret slush fund money to give the NSA, but we can spend a few million on concrete barriers?
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,302 posts)That's the nature of asymmetric warfare. They either exploit the weakness of, say, trust via delivery vehicles, or they superload the truck with explosives so that a concrete barrier is ineffective.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)is that Congress has systematically underfunded the basic security operations at embassies all around the world. But they have no problem looking the other way when literally 1000 times that amount of money is tacitly "authorized" for these secret programs run amok.
Rain Mcloud
(812 posts)Follow the trail backwards of the 9-11 hi-jackers and guess where those bread crumbs lead.
The Saudi's had to do something,Saddam was threatening to accept only the Euro as currency for his oil which would have weakened
the OPEC stranglehold.
Think back to election cycles after the Reagan disaster presidency,did Al not show up repeatedly during these times?
Mr.Quaeda has been a very good friend to the republicans and they are in each others debt.
[link:http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/01/10/bush-enron-unocal-and-the-taliban/|
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)He's bullet proof, though.
I *think* he's from Parsippiny. Or Nutley. Totowa? Not sure.
Rain Mcloud
(812 posts)Either way Stinky,you sure made the pot boil here at DU.
We love you anyway.
You Sir,are the tits!
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...maybe you should hit the history books. Just because al Qaeda is decimated doesn't mean that some of their operatives can't launch isolated attacks.
Shit, there were Japanese soldiers hiding out and killing Americans as many as fifteen years or more after Japan was "decimated" in 1945.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Free Republic posters aren't nearly as articulate as me.
They can't even spell articulate, let alone define.
George II
(67,782 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)What are your questions?
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)We *all* what they meant when they first said it, so spare me the dictionaritudenousness . . . . mmmmkay?
derby378
(30,252 posts)...that these were the same people who freaked out over the Underwear Bomber, despite the fact that the bomb was one of the dumbest and glitchiest things al-Qaeda ever devised. If a Fruit Of The Boom is all they can come up with, bring it the fuck on. This "War On Terror" is over.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)...and gets stankier by the day
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Can't tell the players without a scorecard.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Here's the bottom line:
Some of you trust in all this shit and some of us don't. The rest is just cannon fodder for word games.
Have a swell weekend.
jazzimov
(1,456 posts)We've been told for years that al Qaeda was decimated, BUT we were also warned at the same time that al Qaeda was adjusting and was beginning to act as individual cells. We've also been warned that the al Qaeda independent cell based i Yemen was particularly active.
Remember the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber? Both failed attempts, but attempts nevertheless.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Its bad enough that the RW acts this dumb. Worse to see it on DU.
Its actually possible for us to (a) significantly degrade their ability to attack us, and (b) for them to still be a danger.
You pretend as if the only message has been "Al Qaeda has been decimated", when it has always in fact included "but they are still a danger that we can not ignore."
Almost exactly 13 years ago to the day we had a President ignore a terrorist threat.
I guess that's what we want the Obama administration to do now.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)I musta missed that.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)It's everywhere Uncle Sam wants to be.
He'll figure out how to pay for it all later.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)It does not take all that many of them to cause a bunch of trouble.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)there are still scattered remnants capable of vicious attacks. Is too complicated to understand?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Like the "One Legged or Two Legged Al Zawarhi..... They just keep on "Keepin' On"...
We can't rest until they ALL ARE DEAD! ZOMBIES .....ALL OF 'EM!