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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Top 10 Most Inaccurate and Exaggerated NSA Stories (So Far)
SNIP
I hasten to note that Im leaving out anything from Alex Jones or other well-known conspiracy theorists, though it appears as if theres a new litter of leftie conspiracy theorists emerging, some of whom will be mentioned below. Im also not including self-debunked stories: for example, the posts that make outrageous claims as the lede or headline, then clarify (usually about the existence of court oversight and warrants) deep within the belly of the article itself. Furthermore, some of these items follow the 24-hour Rule: once a wild claim is made, its often clarified within a day or so, but only after the misleading claim has circumnavigated the internet several times over. Thats exactly what happened when it was reported that
SNIP
8) The British GCHQ collects 21 petabytes of data every day from underwater fiber optic cables.
If you recall, this story began as a wild theory literally published on The Guardian, which subsequently morphed into reality as it jumped from publication to publication, including The Atlantic (no correction issued) and The Young Turks show on Current. This was a stupendously aggravating example of how shoddy reporting circulates through the tubes and is eventually repeated as fact.
How a Wild Theoretical Claim About the NSA Magically Transformed Into Factual Reality
By Bob Cesca · July 19,2013 Print Friendly
SNIP
On Thursday, I watched a video monologue by Cenk Uygur via the following tweet:
Millions Of Gigabytes Collected Daily UNDERWATER By US, England http://bit.ly/1aToyme via @CenkUygur
Theres one major problem with Cenks big screamer headline: its simply incorrect.
Once again, however, I hasten to preface that I still consider Cenk a friend, and this really isnt intended to bash him personally. It turns out, Cenk stumbled into a modern game of journalistic Telephone. In case youre the one person in the world whos never played Telephone, heres how it works. A phrase or a word is whispered into the ear of one person, then that person whispers the phrase into another ear, and so on. By the time the phrase works its way around the room, and due to memory lapses or misheard whispers, the phrase morphs into something completely different. The internet vastly enables this process.
Based on the post by The Atlantic, Cenk reported that, yes, the GCHQ taps into underwater cables and subsequently shares its intelligence with NSA. To the credit of both Cenk and The Atlantic, each made sure to mention that underwater cable-taps have been occurring for decades. In James Bamfords book, Body of Secrets, we learned about Operation Ivy Bells during which the USS Halibut tapped into a Soviet telecommunications cable and gathered huge volumes of signal intelligence (SIGINT) until a leaker sold details of the operation to the KGB. Elsewhere, the New York Times reported on fiber optic cable taps back in 2005.
SNIP
And where did the New Scientist get this information?
The Guardian.
Specifically, the New Scientist linked to the original Snowden bombshell article from June 21 about GCHQ tapping underwater fiber optic cables. For what its worth, Glenn Greenwald didnt contribute to this post. Ewen MacAskill, Julian Borger, Nick Hopkins, Nick Davies and James Ball are credited in the byline.
Heres the only mention of 21 million gigabytes or 21 petabytes in the entire article:
Each of the cables carries data at a rate of 10 gigabits per second, so the tapped cables had the capacity, in theory, to deliver more than 21 petabytes a day equivalent to sending all the information in all the books in the British Library 192 times every 24 hours.
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/07/how-a-wild-theoretical-claim-about-the-nsa-transformed-into-factual-reality/
7) President Obama is fighting a deliberate war on whistleblowers.
This isnt necessarily specific to the NSA story, but its absolutely one of Greenwalds preferred frames for whenever leakers or, in this case, Edward Snowdens name is brought up. It insinuates that the president and the Justice Department are viciously persecuting any and all whistleblowers, irrespective of circumstances. Were to infer that if you blow the whistle on the government, youre doomed. This is simply untrue. As Charlie Savage reported in the New York Times, the so-called war is simply a matter of happenstance: leftover prosecutions from the Bush years, greater ease of digitally tracking leaks and so on. On top of this inconvenient reality, the president not only signed an executive order to protect legitimate whistleblowers in the intelligence community who expose waste, fraud or abuse via proper channels, but he also signed the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act last year.
6) The U.S. sentences whistleblowers to be tossed in a cage for decades and disappeared.
Greenwald said this on national broadcast television twice as a weak and false excuse for why perhaps Snowden fled the country to Hong Kong and Russia. The longest sentence handed down in this war on whistleblowers was 30 months, which is currently being served by John Kiriakou who blew the whistle on CIA torture, and who was prosecuted for outing the names of CIA officers. Elsewhere, yes, Bradley Manning could face up to 90 years in prison, but he hasnt been sentenced yet. Even if he received the maximum sentence, he would be the first and only leaker to be imprisoned for decades.
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/08/the-top-nine-most-egregiously-inaccurate-nsa-stories-so-far/
1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)You want to be top of the list?
quinnox
(20,600 posts)with daily tracking of who is up and who is down. I agree, the OP would be moving up the rankings, as a rising star!
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)And your list, quinnox?
Who is the ranking star in the Snowden supporters list? That is when it is about Snowden.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)There are too many good progressives/liberals here on DU who support Snowden. I can't narrow it down to 10 only.
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)1000...10000.
Go for it~let me know.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)So many good smart progressives on here, I adore them all! I'm a "fanboy" of most of them, enjoy reading their insight and thoughts.
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)I could start one for you, however in reality, I don't think it is as big as you believe.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)that is for me to know. Though occasionally, I will let them know in public posting, how much of a fan-boy I might be of them.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... these tools think they are fooling people.
We SEE you.
Cha
(295,915 posts)without merit.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Anyone who posts here with any degree of regularity notices it's the same 20 or so voices always promoting the official administration talking points.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)sheshe2
(83,341 posts)99Forever, we see you too~
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... there's MILLIONS of us and few of you. Take a very long look.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)and yet are running around with their hair on fire claiming everything short of telekinesis.
and a few... who look at facts and grasp the tech and know that the millions are going to cause a run on tin foil... very soon.
sP
99Forever
(14,524 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)you gonna cut my head off?
and no, you don't understand the tech or you wouldn't be pushing this garbage.
sP
Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #30)
Post removed
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)you see, i understand The Constitution just fine. and i don't like that our gov't is doing some of the things it is doing and i would agree with you that they need to stop. the problem is people like you who seem to be willing to believe that the NSA can read your mind from 1000 miles away with their whizzy technology. and you call people who point out how wrong you are nasty little names as if your attempt to belittle them somehow makes your position stronger... it's really kind of sad.
keep slinging that mud... hope they make tin-foil thick enough to protect you.
sP
99Forever
(14,524 posts)I suggest therapy.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)this is very telling.
or perhaps your use of 'tool', 'wise guy' and 'brain child' were meant as complements? nah... i think i got it right the first time.
sP
99Forever
(14,524 posts)The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)with no relevance to what i have said at all. nice work.
sP
99Forever
(14,524 posts)The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)and you'd be wrong... i disagree with your belief in NSA omnipotence and omnipresence.
sP
99Forever
(14,524 posts)I know an apologist when I smell one.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)got it.
thank you for a fun evening of DU 'whack-a-mole'... too bad you couldn't actually make a valid point or support your belief in magic being wielded by the sorcerers over at the NSA.
sP
99Forever
(14,524 posts)What you are, is quite evident.
randome
(34,845 posts)The balloon changes shape but maintains its volume. Where will all the hate go now that Snowden is a recluse and Obama is reforming the NSA?
Time to let the air out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)That is all you have done in this thread. Why is that?
"You know an apologist when you smell one"?
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)so this is what they do... it's kind of fun after a while watching them spin and fling shit everywhere thinking that they're winning.
sP
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)They never both to read the links, they just do the knee jerk thing.
The guillotine was such a nice touch don't you think?
She~
Cha
(295,915 posts)Cha
(295,915 posts)insults you throw around with "facts".
You do need a crash course in The Top 10 Most Inaccurate and Exaggerated NSA Stories (So Far)!
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)+1
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Enjoy your world.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)and yeah, probably better than Snowden given his position... but you think what you want.
sP
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)and you show all the hallmarks and braggadocio of a noob.
Enjoy your world.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)so it sounds like we're in the same boat.
sP
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Andy823
(11,495 posts)You have to take all the libertarians, Paulbots, Obama hater, and we can't forget the teaparty crowd, add that to the small number here on DU, and he just might hit a million. Of course I could be wrong!
Number23
(24,544 posts)Though as the Pauls ascend, the Tea Party descends so they kind of cancel each other out.
In the meantime, only 51% of Russians (who are living under a genuine authoritarian regime) approve of Snowden's actions. You would think that if anyone in the world would appreciate Snowden, it would be Russian citizens.
Was shocked by how low that number was.
Cha
(295,915 posts)the Planet.
Yeah, you're very much on display with your little "We see you" schtick.. like you're some kind of big brother know it all. Isn't that what you think is happening? And, now you're playing at it?
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)but that would be exaggerating their effectiveness.
Californeeway
(97 posts)Cha
(295,915 posts)over on bullshit NSA stories?
You have no merit.
jazzimov
(1,456 posts)of conviction.
Just curious, do you have anything to add to the discussion, or do you just wish to make sure everyone agrees with you?
Do you have a question, or do you just rely on dogma?
Do you actually know anything about the discussion at all?
If so, please share.
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)That's another good question. However I know the answer. They did not.
Thanks Jazz~
randome
(34,845 posts)The 10 inaccuracies listed are inaccuracies, correct?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)that the NSA tracks our metadata.
It is fine to obtain the phone records as a part of a specific investigation.
But it is overly intrusive and a violation not just of the Fourth Amendment but of a number of other rights for the government to obtain the metadata of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people.
It chills our right to free speech about political issues, about things like the environment, corporate bribery of our Congress and other political officials and many, many other things. It intrudes on our right of freedom of association because the government can see in our phone and internet and other electronic communication records with whom we associate, with whom we meet and talk and perhaps even in some cases get transcripts of our communications without a warrant.
It isn't the arguably misleading information that concerns me. I don't care about how many millions of calls or how many hundreds of thousands of calls are intercepted at the cables. Those details don't concern me. I don't need to understand that degree of technical information to know that if the government is looking at my telephone bills, they know what church I belong to, what civic organizations and clubs I belong to, who my family members are, where I shop, who repairs my car . . . . They know where I go to have my hair done and when, what doctors i visit. They know everything about me. Now, in my case, I assume they don't care. i'm not a political leader. My personal life is uncontroversial I think. But I care about the principle of it. It is not right that the government is tracking people through their metadata. That must stop. It chills our exercise of every right we have under the Constitution.
And it especially chills the rights of journalists, lawyers, judges, members of legislative bodies at all levels of government. It is just appalling.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)So, since he's 'won', will you talk him back to the U.S. to collect his awards and his Nobel Peace Prize petition so that he can speak out for his cause and rub his 'victory' in the NSA's (and President Obama's, of course) faces?
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)However the title would be Fact over Fiction.
Not NSA Appologist.
Californeeway
(97 posts)that means we eagerly support a police state?
Hell, I've been bitching about the Patriot Act for over a decade. I still don't appreciate so-called civil liberties advocates making up dumb bullshit that is easily debunked. It reflects poorly on all of us and undermines the argument against the NSA.
You shouldn't have to lie to make your point, if you have to lie, that's a clear sign that your point is bullshit.
the truth is more than enough to build consensus around reforms. Let's not undermine that by unquestioningly accepting every crazy conspiracy theory that comes along.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)but prefer to stick to facts.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)here anyways
Response to sheshe2 (Original post)
quinnox This message was self-deleted by its author.
jazzimov
(1,456 posts)As a telephone Tech Support Trainer, I always emphasize that the most important aspect is not technical knowledge, but communication. I can't tell you in my previous position how many times a call was escalated to me because the person was troubleshooting the wrong thing - because of improper communication.
Whenever there is a dialog between 2 people, 6 things actually happen;
1. Speaker - there is what they MEAN to say
2. Speaker - there is what they ACTUALLY said.
3. Speaker - there is what they THINK they said (which is almost never what they actually said)
4. Listener - there is what they HEARD
5. Listener - there is what they THINK they heard
6. Listener - there is what they think the Speaker MEANT to say
In a perfect world, #6 would match #1. It almost never does.
BumRushDaShow
(127,312 posts)in Girl Scouts.
Cha
(295,915 posts)Thank you, she!
So much bullshit coming from greenwald and others.. so little time.
From your link...
3) NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants.
That was the exact CNET headline. (Im not sure how an agency can admit something, but I nitpick.) CNET chief political correspondent Declan McCullagh published a selectively edited exchange between Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) and then-FBI Director Robert Mueller, and extrapolated their confusing and brief conversation into evidence that NSA has been eavesdropping on American citizens without any court orders or oversight. As we observed with Rep. Lewis this week, Rep. Nadler issued a statement the following day denying CNETs story. 24 hours later, like clockwork, McCullagh changed the headline and issued an update.
this is de rigueur for "Fighting back the Bullshit 101"!
Mahalo, she!
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)It makes you dizzy!
Thanks Cha, love the Bullshit 101 course that is being taken. Do you know what the grading curve is going to be? Or maybe it will be just a Pass or Fail!
Cha
(295,915 posts)who aren't capable of having a discussion about your OP.. can only bring Ignorant personal attacks to the table.
they have no honor.
Thank you Cha!
Cha
(295,915 posts)Cha
(295,915 posts)President Barack Obama holds a press conference in the East Room at the White House.
http://theobamadiary.com/2013/08/09/news-of-the-day-16/
The "apologist" whinnying be damned.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)make sure the forum in encrypted! Otherwise all your posts will be recorded!
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
burnodo
(2,017 posts)But they ARE spying on us...President Obama affirmed that today
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
Cha
(295,915 posts)nothing gets through.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)So once again, I ask: If the pro-Snowden crowd is immovably convinced that they, apparently as of about 5-6 weeks ago, have just been awakened to the idea that they're living under a totalitarian, always-lying, torture-and-kill regime,
Why are they still here?
And why are they still shrieking about the government on this unsecured forum, if it's a foregone conclusion that they're being monitored?
Never mind. No logic here.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Granted, some headlines are exaggerated, which is kind of bound to happen. Does that mean that a lot of data isn't being collected? If it doesn't mean that, does it mean that we shouldn't be concerned about the data being collected?
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)by Google. If you need to see how it works, just look at the banner up on the top of this page.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)That makes my skin crawl. Thanks for making the quality of your character clear, I guess.
Cha
(295,915 posts)john miller @deaconmill
Once and for all, can we get it straight. Snowden is not a whistleblower and not one person has been prosecuted for whistleblowing by Obama.
http://theobamadiary.com/2013/08/09/keep-chatting-5/
Has your thread descended into another greenwald propaganda hell hole, yet?
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)However the peeps that believe in facts are here too.
For me I gotta go Cha~
Cha
(295,915 posts)sleep, she
hughee99
(16,113 posts)but then, I guess they always strive to give the least untruthful answers possible.
Grateful for Hope
(39,320 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)That is Exactly the right phrase to use.
And it should be embarrassing to believe and get caught up in all the lies spewed when they are proven to be Whisper Games. People are funny. And stupid. Whole lot of tons of that around lately.
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)You are correct, it should be embarrassing. However doesn't seem to stop some of the posters here.
Yikes...pictures of guillotines~
Whisp!
Logical
(22,457 posts)sheshe2
(83,341 posts)Seventy eight replies too.
Such a dead post...so why did the crew move in so rapidly to insult it. It is stupid and means nothing....so why the reaction...Hmmm?! The wrecking crew...Hmmm!?
Logical
(22,457 posts)sheshe2
(83,341 posts)Worked 12 hours today and came home to a response to said OP! Responded to your comment.
Hmmmm, my shift? WOW the CT theories about paid posters is hillarious!
It was also addressed by Skinner...
It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits.
Here~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592697
Well said Skinner!
Logical
(22,457 posts)Cannot throw out shit and not get shit back! Skinner would think your "crew" comment was just as nutty!
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)IMHO you tossed it at me first.
You scoffed that my OP only had 17 recs's. It certainly drew a lot of attention. Can you deny that a "crew was here to insult me and other posters that expressed their thoughts of the OP.
Can you really say that?
Logical
(22,457 posts)No one has ever texted me to respond to any post. Nor have I texted anyone!
Believe me, many here disagree with you on Snowden. And respond when they want. I know I don't need to be told.
Just like you do to posts complaining about how Obama handled this.
So your crew comment was a false accusation, and then you whine when you get some back. Classy!
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)texting have to do with this. I didn't text you. I responded to your DU post!????
You can disagree on what I post about Snowden all you want, When did I saw that you could not. I would prefer that it was fact based and not a personal attack, but do as you see fit.
When have I complained about how Obama handled this?!
Cha
(295,915 posts)flinging taunts like a playground bully at you, she.
Mocking 'cause there's only "17 Rec" like he doesn't know shite about the difference between quantity and Quality.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Cha
(295,915 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Cha
(295,915 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)i think it's funny that your numbers are so low.
Cha
(295,915 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)too funny
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Snowden & Greenwald's fan base so I doubt it's worth my time. They just want to be spoon-fed outrage pablum. In their defense, that's society these days. People going from one rush to another, one drama to another.
Meh. What're you gonna do?
Cha
(295,915 posts)space. More for those of us who are open to not believing what being pushed by greenwald/snowden. I've always thought of greenwald as a pusher of propaganda so the leap was non existent for me.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)They're too busy
Cha
(295,915 posts)what they write! lol!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)age of very fast computers and algorithms is enough to cause me to be vehemently opposed to the NSA program.
I don't need the possibly hyped stories to know that our human rights under the Bill of Rights are being violated every day.
Just the idea that we are under surveillance chills our speech. This is, as I understand it, particularly true for the environmentalists among us.
Kriakou should not be in jail at all. The torturers should have been prosecuted, not Kriakou.