NYT editorial: Snowden's "fears do not qualify him for asylum"

[ProSense]

What’s the Point of a Summit?

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

President Obama is expected to decide soon whether to proceed with a planned summit meeting with President Vladimir Putin of Russia in Moscow next month. At the moment, the answer should be no.

On top of all the other legitimate grievances with Mr. Putin’s policies came his decision to essentially stick a thumb in Mr. Obama’s eye by granting asylum to Edward Snowden, the man who disclosed to the world the National Security Agency sweeps of Americans’ telephone records. The Obama administration had urged Mr. Putin not to grant Mr. Snowden asylum.

<...>

Russia’s decision was provocative. Asylum is for people who are afraid to return to their own country because they fear persecution, unlawful imprisonment or even death because of their race, their ethnicity, their religion, their membership in particular social or political groups, or their political beliefs.

Mr. Snowden undoubtedly fears returning home because he would be arrested and prosecuted. But those fears do not qualify him for asylum. And does he really feel safer in a country where Mr. Putin, an increasingly authoritarian leader, has jailed and persecuted his critics?

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/opinion/whats-the-point-of-a-summit.html

[dkf]

1. Lol. The NYT loses its relevance on a daily basis.

They've turned into a passel of Judy Millers.

[Logical]

2. LOL, keep trying. n-t

[ProSense]

3. Kick! n/t

[burnodo]

4. By Flying Spaghetti Monster, you are a one woman storm!

Why the DNC hasn't hired you, I just don't know.

[ProSense]

5. You don't like the NYT editorial?

Oh well!

[burnodo]

6. did I say that? No!

I'm just saying you are a staunch, uncorruptable supporter! Are you offended?

[bowens43]

9. you have spent weeks trying to cloud the issue...

bottom line this administration has conducted one of the most outrageous attacks on civil liberties that this country has ever seen.

your silly attacks on snowden won't change that. Everybody knows what Obama has done.....and none of us will forget it

[ProSense]

11. OK, you also don't like the NYT editorial.

I accept that.

[Logical]

16. Even today Prosense will not admit Snowden changed the discussion. Sad. Pitiful. n-t

[ProSense]

18. I'm not sad. Why would I change my opinion of Snowden? n/t

[Logical]

22. You can hate and despise snowden. And still admit that he started a discussion that needed....

started. The fact that you do not shows you are beyond biased on this topic. No credibility.

[ProSense]

23. Snowden didn't start the discussion. n/t

[Egnever]

33. +1 Bazillion

[Logical]

38. LOL, yes, nothing has been different since his leak....

Are you just fucking with everyone at this point?

[ProSense]

39. No, I'm extremely serious, and

yes, the difference is a lot more noise, misinformation, and attempts to elevate Snowden to hero status.

[Vinnie From Indy]

43. Serious?

I would agree that you are serious just as all fanatics are serious.

Cheers!

[burnodo]

63. Oh my goodness

And who or what was talking about NSA spying before the Snowden controversy?

[sheshe2]

42. Why do you purposely spell her name wrong? Sad. Pitiful. NT

[Logical]

45. Wrong? How? n-t

[Logical]

15. LOL, do you like any of them that disagrees with Obama? n-t

[Cha]

19. why snowden hasn't "hired you" .. is the big mystery.

[burnodo]

20. Chiming in, Cha?!?

Mahalo, Kahuna!

[Cha]

24. What do you think?

[burnodo]

26. about?

[sheshe2]

40. She is burnodo,

a force to be reckoned with! Sorry that is a problem for you~

Kicking for ProSense on your post!

Ding ding ding~ she's the winner here!

[burnodo]

41. who said I had a problem?

There's an awful lot of projection going into my words.

[Logical]

46. LOL, all she does is post links to stories that she agrees with! Force??? n-t

[bowens43]

7. Don't worry, Obama will probably get him with a drone.........

[Cha]

29. Yeah, that's about as stupid as it gets around here.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. The USA has no extradition treaty with Russia.

Russia is under no compulsion to extradite Snowden. That's point the first.

Point the second: under the law of extradition as implemented by treaty in pretty much every country, there is no extradition for political crimes. Snowden is charged with espionage. Espionage is regarded as a pure political crime in international law because its only victim is the State.

Point the third, the USA has provided asylum to Chechen terrorists and Nazi war criminals sought for extradition by Russia. To do so and then act righteously offended when Russia refuses to hand over Snowden is, frankly, absurd.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/07/209846990/3-extradition-cases-that-help-explain-u-s-russia-relations

[Mojorabbit]

14. +1000 nt

[RetroLounge]

28. But, but, but, she HATES him!

He made Obama look bad, and we all know the president will be crushed without her unflinching support.



RL

[AgingAmerican]

10. NSA domestic spying is STILL wrong

[markiv]

12. 'Cold War Barry'

his place in history?

[ProSense]

13. Ah, I nearly forgot about that RW address of the President. n/t

[markiv]

37. Curtis Lemay way not named 'Bombs Away' by his parents

it's a nickname he aquired by his public life

many may argue that his work ended WWII and won the cold war, yet he was controversial nonetheless

public figures aquire nicknames from their public activities

i am about the same age as the president, and having lived though my childhood (as he did) with the possibility of hunanity ending in a flash of light, i take the potential restart of the cold war personally

i apologise if this goes over your head

[CakeGrrl]

44. What may have

gone over your head was ProSense pointing out the use of the nickname "Barry", which is used derogatorily by the RW (a birther fave: 'Barry Soetoro')

Funny how some of the pro-Snowden crowd shrieks "RW meme!" while others actually USE them.

[markiv]

58. it was a play on cold warrier Barry Goldwater

take a step outside the echo chamber once in a while, it's a fresh perspective

[WorseBeforeBetter]

60. Plus whatever. (n/t)

[Brigid]

17. Whether the NYT likes it or not . . .

It is for Russia to decide whether or not to offer asylum to Snowden or anyone else.

[Cha]

21. That's right.. and Russia thinks it's a great idea.

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

[snappyturtle]

35. You have cut the sentence short. This technique first became a habit

in a campaign to smear Snowden. Quote him, of course, but please do it
accurately. Here's the full sentence and context of the partial sentence
you posted:

Yet even in the face of this historically disproportionate aggression, countries around the world have offered support and asylum. These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world. It is my intention to travel to each of these countries to extend my personal thanks to their people and leaders

;

[pnwmom]

50. How does shortening that particular sentence "smear" Snowden?

The meaning is essentially the same.

[snappyturtle]

55. I see it this way: putting that lone sentence out there without the

explanatory text around it makes Snowden's idealogies look aligned, e.g., with
Russia. It becomes a smear against his judgement. Snowden is simply giving
the countries mentioned credit in this instance of offerring support and asylum
in light of the pressures of the powerful (U.S.) over the powerless (himself).

Yet even in the face of this historically disproportionate aggression, countries around the world have offered support and asylum. These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world. It is my intention to travel to each of these countries to extend my personal thanks to their people and leaders

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. Obama can collect him and give him a ride back to the US on Airforce One!

[Cha]

27. This is why snowden is cowering to Putin..

Mr. Snowden undoubtedly fears returning home because he would be arrested and prosecuted. But those fears do not qualify him for asylum. And does he really feel safer in a country where Mr. Putin, an increasingly authoritarian leader, has jailed and persecuted his critics?

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

[snappyturtle]

36. I was hoping the first time was a misquote....but again?

See reply #35.

[RetroLounge]

30. Yawn

RL

[AppleBottom]

31. Fears should not qualify the government to violate the Constitutional rights of the American people

Yet it does, funny how that works out doesn't it...

[JDPriestly]

54. Very astute.

[Turbineguy]

32. He's a Paulbot

he has voices in his head that must be obeyed!

[markiv]

34. Greatest film tribute to NYT of all time

serving the same role they served in 1975

[Cha]

47. Originally, snowden wanted that sweet gig in Iceland.. did he think that would

have been a safe hidey hole for him. So, he wouldn't have to be paying any pesky price as the civil rights' leaders like John Lewis did?

When did he get "scared"? .. when he found out he had to get the hell outta Hong Kong and Russia looked like they wanted to sink their hooks into him and he so willingly agreed?

Or is he making that shit up like so much of his bogus story?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

48. "or their political beliefs" sounds like they undermined their own "argument"

Our M$M our sounding more and more like McPravda everyday.

:shakes-head:

[JesterCS]

49. you would think if he was so irrelavent

that the US Govt wouldn't make such a fuss about it. They would have been better off just claiming he was a crackpot

[bravenak]

51. They can keep him.

I'll enjoy America. Besides I live in Alaska so I'm pretty sure I can see him from here. I'll keep an eye out from Palins Porch to make sure he doesn't sneak back. When is he supposed to be giving us this Top Secret info that we never knew anything about? I'm still waiting for something that I didn't know or suspect about our massive surveillance state.
I hope he has fun over there. Maybe he'll meet pussy riot somehow. Maybe he'll learn Russian. Maybe next year I'll never have to hear his name ever again until the top hundred political stories of the decade slideshow on huffington post. Maybe it won't load for me and I'll miss it. Maybe he'll want to come home and we won't let him.

[PorridgeGun]

52. After what happened to Manning in pre-trial detention

.. anyone not willing to admit Snowden had legitimate fears of torture is lying or has their head in the sand.

Its also a surety that the authoritarian ostriches amongst us have not had first hand experience inside the nastiest bits of the US prison system. Snowden was right to flee.. I would still have supported him if he'd blatantly defected.

[JDPriestly]

53. Depends on whether you consider prosecuting and possibly imprisoning a person for telling the truth

about a government's overreaching and surveillance of citizens to be political persecution.

To begin at the beginning, if Snowden is threatened with prosecution for a political crime, for his opinions and for dissenting or violating an unjust law, then he is entitled to political asylum.

If you think that Snowden is not facing prosecution for a political crime,and you see him not as a dissident but rather as a criminal, then you think he is not entitled to asylum.

So you have to make a judgment about the nature of Snowden's action,whether he faces potential prosecution for a non-political crime in which case he is not entitled to asylum or whether he faces prosecution for a political crime in which case he is entitled to asylum.

Either point of view can be easily rationalized and justified. As long as Snowden stays in countries that believe that Snowden would be unjustly tried and sentenced for what is essentially a political crime, then he is entitled to asylum in those countries.

The opinion of the US on this issue is only relevant if the U.S. can get a hold of him. And the harder they try to get him, the more oppressive the US government will appear to many in the world.

The US has granted asylum to many fugitives from justice who were avoiding trials and imprisonment for crimes like murder of political opponents. A few of them are still in the US.

This is a matter for each sovereign nation to decide for itself. If a country wants to give Snowden asylum, then he is entitled to asylum in that country. It isn't any of our business in the US.

[ProSense]

57. Snowden

stole a large cache of U.S. state secrets and revealed them to other countries. Remember, Greenwald recently made an implicit threat that if released, the information would harm the U.S.

That has nothing to do with any debate about domestic spying.

<...>

“Yes,” Amash said, adding, “As I said, he may be doing things overseas that we’d find problematic, that we’d find dangerous ... we’ll find those facts out over time. But as far as Congress is concerned, sure, he’s a whistle-blower. He told us what we need to know.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/04/edward-snowden-whistle-blower_n_3703931.html

Call him whatever. There are clearly concerns about his actions overseas, and it's not just the concerns of teabagger Congressman.

Senator Blumenthal: prosecute Snowden, overhaul FISA courts.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023425884

"Edward Snowden broke the law by releasing classified information. This isn't under debate"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290

[JDPriestly]

61. If they don't want him speaking out overseas, then they should grant him amnesty and invite

him back home to live in freedom.

It's an easy thing to do.

Problem is that Manning is not the only whistleblower who has faced an ugly fate after speaking publicly about criminal conduct on the part of the US. There John Kriakou, an object lesson to anyone thinking that whistleblowers may safely speak out to Congress.

John Kiriakou (born August 9, 1964) is a former CIA analyst and case officer, former senior investigator for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and former counter-terrorism consultant for ABC News, blogger for Huffington Post,[1] and author.[2][3][4]

He is notable as the first official within the U.S. government to confirm the use of waterboarding of al-Qaeda prisoners as an interrogation technique, which he described as torture.[5][6]

On October 22, 2012, Kiriakou pled guilty to disclosing classified information about a fellow CIA officer that connected the covert operative to a specific operation. Kiriakou thus became the second CIA officer convicted of violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act and the first for passing along classified information to a reporter, although the reporter did not publish the name of the operative.[7] He was sentenced to 30 months in prison on January 25, 2013, and reported to the low-security Federal correctional facility in Loretto, Pennsylvania, to begin serving his term on February 28, 2013.[8] Bruce Riedel, a former intelligence adviser to Barack Obama who turned down an offer to be considered for CIA director in 2009, has sent the President a letter signed by eighteen other CIA veterans urging that the sentence be commuted.[9]

Kiriakou received a prison "send-off" party at an exclusive Washington, D.C., hotel hosted by political peace activists dressed in orange jumpsuits and mock prison costumes.[10] In 2012, Kiriakou received the Joe A. Callaway Award for Civic Courage for standing up for constitutional rights.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kiriakou

Sorry, but we need to respect our whistleblowers' efforts to make our country better. They, too, are part of the marketplace of ideas. We should have fewer secrets.

Why was the FACT that we were torturing people classified. A democratically elected government should not do things it does not want the voters for whom it works to know about because it is ashamed.

And that goes for Snowden's case too. The US government knows very well that this massive surveillance and collection of metadata is antithetical to democratic government for numerous reasons. That is why the classified the information. Snowden did not release any information that Americans do not have the right to know. Who pays for the NSA's salaries and equipment? That's who they should answer to.

[Logical]

62. Snowden forced Obama to face the music on the NSA spying.....

Obama announces proposals to reform NSA surveillance

[link:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/09/obama-nsa-surveillance-reforms-press-conferenceObama touts NSA surveillance reforms to quell growing unease over programs]

Obama Touts NSA Reforms: 'America Is Not Interested in Spying on Ordinary People'

THE N.S.A.’S DIRTY DISHES: OBAMA’S PRESS CONFERENCE

Apple, Google and AT&T meet Obama to discuss NSA surveillance concerns

Obama sets plans to improve privacy in NSA surveillance

Obama's NSA Conference Could Be Subtitled 'The Guardian Gets Results'

Obama Promises Reform of NSA Spying, But the Devil Will Be in the Details

[kenny blankenship]

56. But Dick Cheney's fears did, acc to NYTimes, justify invading Iraq

What a joke.

[Scurrilous]

59. K & R