Krugman: Rand Paul "actually has no idea that the deficit is falling; it’s quite possible that

[pampango]

does Cantor."

A Poll I’d Like To See

Jonathan Chait finds Rand Paul talking about the evils of “running a trillion-dollar deficit every year” — which, as it happens, is not at all what we’re doing; the deficit is at around $600 billion and falling fast. This follows on Eric Cantor’s talk about “growing deficits”, when deficits are in fact shrinking.

I think it’s pretty clear that Paul actually has no idea that the deficit is falling; it’s quite possible that neither does Cantor. The whole incident reminds me of 2011, when supposedly well-informed candidates like Tim Pawlenty went on about soaring government employment during a time of unprecedented cuts in the public payroll. Once you’re inside the closed conservative information loop, you know lots of things that aren’t so.

What I’m curious about, however, is what the public knows. Larry Bartels likes to cite a 1996 poll in which voters were asked whether the deficit had increased or decreased under Clinton (it had, in fact, fallen sharply). A plurality of voters — and a heavy majority of Republicans — thought the deficit had gone up.

So I’d love to see a comparable poll now — asking, say, what has happened to the deficit since 2009. (It has actually been cut more than 50 percent). My bet is that it would look like that 1996 poll.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/09/a-poll-id-like-to-see/

I know that the "closed conservative information loop" makes republicans stupid, but I assumed that guys like Paul and Cantor knew the truth they just prefer to spout fear and emotion to their base. Can Krugman be right that they have themselves been brainwashed by the "closed conservative information loop"?

[Warpy]

1. I don't honestly think either man looks for any information

beyond what they're handed by party wonks.

However, they are getting the lies out. Obama has simply not used the bully pulpit effectively at all in his presidency to tell people what's really going on.

We might even end up with a GOP in the White House in 2017 because of it.

[kardonb]

17. buly pulpit

our President is not a bully , but a diplomat . That the deficit is shrinking is , naturally , unwelcome ( and therefore) ignored news by repugs .

[Warpy]

18. You have no idea what the word means in this context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bully_pulpit

[maddiemom]

31. Right! The term originated withTeddy Roosevelt, using "bully" in the olf sense of something

really good. ( Bully for you)!

[Thinkingabout]

2. The GOP is so used to repeating their worn out talking points and apparently their staff does not

Update them. Furthermore the folks they are speaking to may not understand if they indicated this administration is performing well, there are not enough John McCain speaking to get the truth out.

[Ohio Joe]

3. That fucker knows full well

He is simply a lying sack of shit.

[Skittles]

5. I agree with this assessment

yes INDEED

[Enthusiast]

12. My take exactly.

He is just repeating the RW meme.

[Scuba]

14. Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

[RevStPatrick]

20. Yeah. C'mon, Mr. Krugman, don't be naive...

Paul and Cantor know damn well the deficit is shrinking.
They're just lying to the rubes about it.

[Cha]

4. Thanks pampango and Krugman!

[freshwest]

6. Krugman does not get it, because he is compassionate man.

It's the same reasoning Democrats use, and they will never get it, eiher. There's a reason the GOP will never give this up.

Just calculate how much goes into healthcare, housing, education, food, labor and environmental laws and other payments. The GOP will see a deficit until that is eliminated.

That's the core of their meme, not facts about to make government work. They don't want the federal government to exist for the people they want gone.

We have to face we are dealing with a cabal intent on destroying those things and will keep on fussing until they are either shoved hard out of government or they win.

And there will be no going back once they've done it, this is not the same nation as FDR had. They'll keep at it because government is not good for their bottom line.

A lot of people who now benefit from all of those things, are not good for their bottom line either, nor are any laws that protect them. JMHO.

[Marie Marie]

7. You nailed it freshwest.

[freshwest]

11. Like the website said:

Why does the Republican Party zealously pursue policies so obviously counter to the best interests of ordinary Americans?

Since the New Deal, Republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, the war in Vietnam, equal rights, civil liberties, church- state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, gun policy, campaign-finance reform, the environment and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident.

The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the Republican Party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.

Why? Because they're evil GOP bastards!

More at the link:

http://www.evilgopbastards.com

It is the answer to anyone who claims both parties are the same. That only works for libertarians, anarchists or tea baggers. I'm not buying it so they can go and sell their crazy somewhere else.

[dgauss]

8. My guess is that if Paul and Cantor were given a quiz

about whether the deficit has gone up or down under Obama, and their lives depended on getting the answer right, they would get the answer right.

But up until that point where the truthful answer actually mattered to them, they don't care about about getting it right and don't waste time thinking about it too much. It's not useful to them.

[jmowreader]

21. My guess is you are wrong

The serious True Believers, like Paul and Cantor, would prefer to be killed rather than admit the Democrats have done anything good for the country.

[dgauss]

23. Ha! That really hadn't occurred to me. You may be right.

They truly are in the grip of some bad crazy.

[A Simple Game]

29. No politician like Paul or Cantor thinks of anything before they think about

themselves. They put themselves first and nothing else matters as much to them. Not Country, not party, not principle. They may put on a good act, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, they come first. There will be no suicides for those two.

[Scurrilous]

9. K & R

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

10. Rand Paul is a RACIST TEA PARTY THUG who doesn't know anything but HATE

That he has ridden into power on that is a chilling thing to ponder... others have also come to power on hate agendas and have destroyed democracies from within, and some fools want to grant totalitarian powers to the government all of a sudden?

FUCK THAT!

[B Calm]

13. How do you know when a republican is lying?

When they open their mouth!

[Nine]

15. Of course the flip side of that...

...is why do Democrats allow these very simple facts to be obfuscated? I know we're outgunned by repubs in many ways but we could be doing better than we are.

[DainBramaged]

16. The problem is not their feigned ignorance, it's the apathy of the press

When did anyone in the press contradict one of these douche bags and state the deficit is going down, and then offered proof?

[Botany]

19. Obama-care will work and the deficit is falling

Why would anybody vote republican ever?

:large

[rlegro]

22. I suspect Krugman is knowingly giving Paul and Cantor the benefit of the doubt

...not because they deserve it, but for rhetorical reasons. I think Krugman really believes, as I do, that these characters are lying. Circumstantial evidence notwithstanding, such mind-reading from the left tends to change what passes for political debate in this country. Consider this imaginary news conference:

Reporter: Paul Krugman said you knowingly lied when you claimed that deficits are expanding.

Paul: He's a typical liberal blowhard and he's got his facts wrong. The deficit is in fact expanding, if you count spending honestly [see what he just did there?]. Everyone knows that if you put Social Security and Medicare entirely on the books, the US is running huge deficits and will continue to do so.

Reporter: But you appeared to be talking about the actual deficit that the Treasury and the Office of Budget and Management and the Congressional Budget Office all agree is shrinking. Republicans agreed with Demcrats on how to measure deficits. George W. Bush measured them the same way and no one in the GOP said anything except Dick Cheney, who said deficits don't matter.

Paul: Well, well, did I say "deficit"? Slip of tongue. Debt! Federal debt! The national debt is still increasing. Every year by many billions of dollars. And that's what's important, not parsing every word I might say in casual, un-telePrompterd conversation. The American public knows it's true and so does Krugman.

Etc. etc. These guys are coated in oily Pam[TM] non-stick cooking spray.

[Trekologer]

26. They could just be dullards

It certainly is in the realm of possible. I mean, hey, its not like Rand Paul or Eric Cantor's job is in the government or something like that. Oh, what's that you say? They're BOTH in the government? Well then they're definitely lying.

[Taitertots]

24. It is really getting to the point that Republicans are saying things that are so divorced from....

Reality that they just can't be that stupid; they are intentionally lying because they know their followers will never try to actually see if the data supports their claims.

It makes political discourse impossible, because no amount of evidence will sway their opinion. They are vested and must believe their Republicans because accepting the evidence would mean that they would have to accept that their leaders are liars.

It is really getting to the point of insane double think:
Gold goes up, republicans scream it means we have hyperinflation. Gold drops like a brick, Republicans STILL SCREAM INFLATION.
Republicans demand spending cuts, but Romney's plan called for higher spending than we have had with Obama and Ryan's plan doesn't actually cite a single program that would be cut.
Republicans complain about the size of government when (last 30 years) every Republican administration increased the size of government more than the least expansive Democrat.
Republicans claim to be the party of business, but market indexes go down when they are in office.
There are more than 1,000,000 fewer government employees (all levels) today than there were when Obama took office.

[MindMover]

25. When you are talking to the Paul constituency .... well, lets just say

you have to limit your choice of words to one and two syllables ...

[bluestate10]

28. Some of those people are bright. I know some. But they are dramatically deluded, mostly

self-deluded. They listen to Limbaugh lying and sounding intelligent and they believe the lies because in the end, they want to believe the lies. I see no other way out other than fighting them politically and never stepping back from that fight until logic and facts win.

[bluestate10]

27. The republican base doesn't look for facts. Republican voters prefer to hear hot words, regardless

of how devoid of fact those words are. The fact that the republican base prefer lies and rage to accuracy is why they are losing national elections and will soon start to lose state and district elections in the South, which will effectively spell doom for that party.

The people that worry me more are the ones on the far Left. Will President Obama create a budget surplus that if a Democrat is elected to replace him after he finishes his last term only to have the far Left chasing car wheels like they did in 2000? The republican base is becoming more and more impotent every day, they are ceasing to be a threat to progress, I can't say the same about the far Left.

[DallasNE]

30. Politifact Would Give Paul A Half True

On his statement, pointing out that while the deficit is no longer a trillion dollars but that the debt continues to go up -- never mind that Paul was being specific on the deficit. Either that or they would give him a "true" because the combined budget and trade deficit is a trillion dollars, ignoring that Paul was clearly not talking about trade in his statement.