I think Russia/Putin are homophobic to the max....

[Little Star]

But I am glad Snowden was given temporary asylum there. I feel Snowden is a whistle blower, not a traitor and has helped bring spying on US citizens and our allies into the day light which is a good thing. But on LGBT issues Russia needs to be condemned and challenged, not so much regarding their treatment afforded Snowden who I do not see as a traitor.

We all need to stand with our LGBTQ brothers & sisters!! Always! I agree with George Takei, we need to move the Games to Vancouver or elsewhere and take them out of Russia because of that country's homophobic laws regarding the lack civil rights for LGBTQ. Disgusting! Probably won't move them though, sigh.

I admire our president & adore his family. I like some of his policies and don't like others. I certainly don't hate or even dislike him, never have. In fact I admire him on many levels. He walked into a pile of shit and then has had to try working with a bunch of idiot republicans in the house especially. His job is not easy with the climate we now find ourselves in at this point of history.

Hell, I even give him a pass on his drone policy. I do not have all the facts that are available to PBO regarding terrorism. I don't like innocents being droned but also think some of those terrorists purposely keep innocents close to them. I think terrorists want innocents killed just to further their cause by saying "look they are killing innocents", when it is them keeping innocents close to them. It's a win, win for terrorists when we are seen as targeting innocents. They use them as shields and also to advance their propaganda.

I like and admire Matt Damon and even enjoy the way he & PBO give each other mild jabs. I think of both of them as patriots. I also think they like and respect each other on many things.

I guess I can hold one view of a particular subject and another on another subject even when speaking about the particular subject of Putin/Russia.

Are there others out there that have mixed feelings on some of those (and other) issues? Maybe I'm just an anomaly.

[MjolnirTime]

1. Snowden is now aiding a nation that criminalizes homosexuality. It's that simple.

[Little Star]

7. How?.....

Last edited Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)

What does Snowden have to do with Russia's homophobic policies? Answer: NOTHING!

Leave Snowden out of Putin/Russia's disgusting homophobic laws.

Stop conflating the two.

I think you are trying to conflate two totally different issues. Stop conflating the two. They have nothing to do with each other.

Obama supporters who hate Snowden are wrong, conflating and trouble stirring when they try this shit. They need to stop conflating the issue of the Olympics/Russia's homophobic laws with whistle blower Snowden.

Thanks to Putin for giving Snowden temp asylum. Fuck Putin for his anti gay hate mongering!

I stand with LGBT rights, ALWAYS, and I also stand with whistle blower Snowden.

[SergeyDovlatov]

10. not since 1993

Russia has a rich gay subculture, a lot of gay bars and gathering places.

Gay sex was legalized in Russia in 1993 and even though prior to that it was illegal, there were plenty of gay hangouts before that and prosecution were rare.

The recently passed law gives out fines for "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships to minors".

[LostOne4Ever]

12. In other words they don't even have a right to stand up for their own rights.

Even as they are brutalized:

http://www.queerty.com/russian-skinheads-using-social-media-to-lure-kidnap-and-publicly-torture-gay-teens-20130726/#ixzz2aBApIYxz

[SergeyDovlatov]

14. true

I hope there will be a crack-down on skinheads in Russia. Gays is just one group they target, they also target people that don't look Slavic, i.e Kyrghyz, Georgian, Chechens, etc. Or just because you don't look right for any other reason

[MjolnirTime]

26. so you think Russia is welcoming to homosexuals?

You're really stretching to protect your Dear Edward.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. Snowden probably doesn't care

Libertarians are selfish. If he's not gay, it doesn't affect him.

[ljm2002]

19. Snowden is aiding Russia?

Rather the other way around, I'd say.

[arely staircase]

20. If they have gained access to those laptops

then yes, he is aiding and abbetting the oppression of LGBT Russians.

[cali]

23. how on earth is he aiding them?

that's absurd. flat out ridiculous.

Is everyone who goes on vacation in Jamaica or Tobago of St. Kitts or Belize aiding nations with far worse laws than Russia's regarding homosexuality? Not to mention the 75 other countries that criminalize homosexuality more severely than Russia does?

He sought asylum there- and it wasn't even his first choice. Now you can find his seeking asylum cowardly or criminal or whatever, but to claim he aiding a nation that criminalizes homosexuality is beyond silly.

[MjolnirTime]

25. He's a spy. He stole National Secrets. He fled to Russia.

To ignore the obvious takes a special set of Anti-Obamite blinders.

Evidently you have acquired those.

If you think Putin is sheltering Snowden out of the goodness of his heart, you aren't using your context clues or your brain.

[quinnox]

2. I think Putin did the right thing, and sure, it was a calculated maneuver, but he is after all

the leader of Russia, so that is to be expected. By the way, he is still very popular there, the people give him a 65% approval rating. (Way higher than Obama gets here, for example)

I also was very glad and happy that Snowden found refuge, he is a hero.

[SergeyDovlatov]

9. Sorry about that. Indeed

will move it

[Little Star]

6. I agree with what you said but the poster you responded to was only talking about...

the Snowden part not the homophobia issue, I think.

I hold different positions on those two issues myself.

[FreeState]

8. Completely misleading and false

Please see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/113729757

[SergeyDovlatov]

11. I disagree

I was correcting the point about illegality.

It is no longer criminal since 1993. Though, again, in Moscow, there were plenty of gay hang-outs well before that. There were café, bars. Police was not raiding them.

People attitudes though, are much less permissive towards that lifestyle. Gays are indeed bullied, but it is not exclusive to gays though.

Bullying extends to geeks, people from central asia, caucuses, etc.

[LostOne4Ever]

13. And that makes it okay?

And its an orientation not a "lifestyle."

They are persecuting people for something that is inherent and harms no-one.

[SergeyDovlatov]

16. well

From Russian Duma's perspective, propaganda of this lifestyle is harmful to minors as they can choose to adopt it and thus hurt even more demographic situation in Russia.

(Here am addressing "persecuting people for something that is inherent and harms no-one&quot

It is only public displays, demonstrations are made illegal, not the activity itself.

In US that would have been against 1st amendment, but, in Russia, it freedom of speech / expression is not as protected. (At least in some aspects).

I do remember that during Chechen wars, there were mainstream Russia sources that were against it.

In US, no mainstream channel was providing anti-war voices during build up for Iraq war.

So, it depends on the issue. It is not like press in US is not controlled to a certain extend by what government wants to to

[dbackjon]

18. No one chooses to be Gay

And why should anyone have to hide who they are?

[SergeyDovlatov]

21. possibly

Flaunting is not the opposite of hiding. Attitude in Russia range from acceptance to indifference, to yuckiness, to moral outrage.

Maybe gay parades is a way to convert people's hearts and minds in US, it may or may not be the right way for Russia.

The law in question was passed unanimously and pretty popular in Russia. Russia is a young democracy and is learning the ropes in flexing its democratic muscle. It does not have constitution as restrictive as united states, so the democracy is more in tune with attitude of the people and less protective of unpopular minorities.

[dbackjon]

22. Civil Rights should never be a popularity contest

Minorities ALWAYS lose.


Gay pride parades were the subject of much opposition in the US in the early days. But they were allowed to exist.

[SergeyDovlatov]

24. US had founding fathers

who had healthy suspicion of direct democracy and put a restrictive constitution in place.

Russia's constitution is much less coherent and pretty much huge jumble of good sounding statements.

http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm

For example:

Article 45

1. State protection of the rights and freedoms of man and citizen shall be guaranteed in the Russian Federation.

2. Everyone shall be free to protect his rights and freedoms by all means not prohibited by law..

Not much a protection if you are allowed to pass a law to ban gay parades.

[uppityperson]

27. "propaganda of this lifestyle is harmful to minors as they can choose to adopt it"?????

sexual orientation is not a "lifestyle" and not a "choice". Please stop referring to sexual orientation that way as it is wrong and offensive.

[dipsydoodle]

15. That was a counterclaim

.

[DirkGently]

3. It's easy enough not to confuse one thing with another thing.

Unless you're trying to do exactly that, of course.