Can I get a "Bravo!" for Ms. Oprah Winfrey?

[hedgehog]

Her magazine features an article about hair that asserts the right of every women to wear her hair (or even shave it off!) however she pleases! The article actually uses the word "kinky" as a description of hair texture and not as a pejorative. Go natural, dye it, perm it, straighten it, go short, go long, whatever suits your fancy! No one needs to match a certain ideal to feel good about themself!

[Bay Boy]

1. Or even...

...carry it around in your $35,000 purse.
(someone had to see this comment coming)

[elehhhhna]

27. and she endorses real hair with a wig on her head? ironic.

[SoCalDem]

2. Good thing she flies first class

That wig would need its own seat in coach

[hlthe2b]

3. Definitely... but as a "shortie", I sort of hope I get the "shaved" head and not the Cover "DO"

when seated behind someone at the movie theater....

[RudynJack]

4. I didn't need Oprah to tell me that

Give me a head with hair, long beautiful hair.
Shining, gleaming, streaming, flaxen, waxen.
Give me down to there hair, shoulder length or longer
Here baby, there, momma, ev'rywhere, daddy, daddy.

hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Hair, hair, hair.Flow it, show it,long as God can grow it, my hair.

[unblock]

76. my hair like jesus wore it, hallelujah, i adore it hallelujah mary loved her son

WHY DON'T MY MOTHER LOVE ME?

hair...

[Zorra]

5. Love it. Let your freak flag fly! nt

[KarKar]

6. Wow! She made the cover again!

[bravenak]

7. Oh no you didn't.

[knitter4democracy]

8. I wish more of us would wear our hair more naturally.

It can't be healthy, all the chemicals we all use on our hair and scalp. Worse, the shaming and bizarre cultural double/triple standard just plain have to go.

[Fumesucker]

11. I know just what you mean

[knitter4democracy]

31. *snarfgle*

That's awesome.

[leftstreet]

9. You could make a cool handbag out of that n/t

[quinnox]

10. oh, that does not look good, sorry but

I have never thought "afros" look good. On anyone. Why would you want that puffy big-ass hair on your head. I guess if you are desperate for attention.

[panader0]

15. If I was black, I would have an afro.

I think they look cool.

[Glimmer of Hope]

18. Same here. I love them.

[Warpy]

20. Really! I've often wished I had hair that just rolls up as it grows

but then I've seen schoolmates crying when their mothers were trying to get the knots out with a fork prior to doing cornrows.

Another person told me bed head was a real problem once it got even slightly longer.

But yeah, we always want the hair we don't have.

[pipi_k]

36. "We always want

the hair we don't have"

So true! In my case, anyway.

My hair has always been babyfine and flyaway, able to go from completely straight on dry days to "Poodle with mange" on humid days.

Among my two full sisters, I come in at the middle.

One sister has completely straight hair (very thick) and the other has frizzy-all-the-time SOS Pad hair.

I always wanted the straight, silky texture of Asian hair.

[BainsBane]

19. To suit you black women should chemically treat and iron their hair so it looks white

That is what you are saying.

[quinnox]

21. No, that is not what I'm saying at all

I was expressing my personal opinion that afros don't look good on black women. Here is an example of a beautiful black women, whose hair I really like, so you can better understand where I'm coming from.

?1





As you can tell, I like short hair on women. An afro is about as far from that as you can get.

[panader0]

26. Afros don't need long hair.

While I think Halle Berry is very good looking, I'll bet her hair would be naturally curly.
Getting a "process", or straightening hair used to be a painful thing.
Think Angela Davis or Roberta Flack. Both beautiful women.
Edit to add: when I was younger (late '60's)., afros were also a symbol of Black pride. Huey Newton, Eldridge Cleaver, my roommate Vic.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. So you just like them whiter. Way to prove the poster's point. nt

[Ms. Toad]

40. My thought, as well. n/t

[BainsBane]

35. with chemically processed hair, relaxed hair, as in like white

She also is very light skinned.

[quinnox]

46. What can I say, I have my preferences

in terms of what I find attractive. I don't think this is any sort of crime.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

53. And other people's preferences might include letting their curly hair grow out into an afro. Do

they need to be psychoanalyzed by you? If I were you I'd reread what you originally posted and why it's insulting. Is it some sort of crime to point this out to you?

[BainsBane]

55. I would advise you not to articulate your race-based preferences

in a public forum that is meant to be diverse. It's offensive. Somethings you should just keep to yourself.

[quinnox]

60. it is not race based at all, you are confused, it is hair based

I happen to like short hair on women. So sue me. Halle Berry is hot, and she is a black women, Trust me, I find some black women attractive. I know what I like.






See the resemblance between her and who I think is the most dazzling beauty of all time? And who is my all time favorite beauty? Well, you might guess it:







I think she is the most beautiful women ever. And elegant too.

[BainsBane]

62. You have offended several African American women here

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2013, 02:58 PM - Edit history (1)

NEVER speak poorly of a black woman's hair. It is a serious insult. It's as bad as calling a white woman fat, worse really because it carries with it the historical legacy that other slurs toward African Americans do. Just keep your thoughts to yourself.

[uponit7771]

52. Unnn, isn't halle berry mixed?!

[quinnox]

54. well, looks like Halle Berry calls herself "Black" - maybe you should take it up with her

“I'm Black, And I Believe In The 'One-Drop' Theory”:
Halle Berry On Race, Ethnicity And Her Daughter Nahla

http://www.arogundade.com/what-race-and-ethnicity-is-halle-berry-is-she-black-or-mixed-race-her-ethnicity-nationality-background-parents-baby.html

[kwassa]

68. Halle is biracial, and that affects her hair texture.

Her natural hair might be loose curls, and completely unstraightened. Some biracial black-white children have completely straight hair, naturally.

in other words, Halle might not be able to create an Afro.

[Ecumenist]

80. QUINNOX, you do realise that Halle Berry is biracial and not indicative of most people

descended from SubSaharan Africa, right? wow.....We have various textures ranging from BONE straight to Peppercorn Kinks. It's because of the "dislike" of OUR HAIR that SO MANY black folk have LITERALLY suffered chemical burns. Thankfully, we are ACCEPTING OURSELVES for who and what we are and no longer have to have the approval of people who think that the only JUSTIFIABLE beauty ideal is EUROPEAN.

[Number23]

29. Believe me. Everyone here is SHOCKED by your reaction

Really. We're just being polite.

[BainsBane]

56. I alerted

These were the results

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

This is just plain racist. It takes a lot of nerve to insist black women shouldn't wear their hair natural. It's disgusting that he thinks this is an acceptable remark. Jury, please show him that his determination to voice his race-based notions of beauty violate community standards.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:48 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Sorry alerter, my hair is so curly when I try wearing it shorter or shoulder length it looks like I have an afro. I'm white. I don't see where the poster is insisting black women shouldn't wear their hair natural.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Racist. But this person loves to get a rise out of people. For the record, natural hair IS beautiful hair.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: We don't need crap like that on DU
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Personal opinion on a hair style. Maybe the alerter doesn't realize that folks from many races and ethnic backgrounds have work fro's. Ask anyone alive in the 70's.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Racist, really? It sounds like an opinion about a certain particular hair style. The poster says they don't think the look in the OP looks good "on anyone". The alerter needs to chill out. Nobody is trying to "insist " anything, it's just a personal opinion being expressed. Besides, do we know the poster's race?

[Number23]

59. I appreciate that, Bain. But I'm not surprised the jury saw otherwise

It is that person's opinion.

But as they say "opinions are like assholes," so even though that person's opinion on issues of race, ALL issues of race no matter how insignificant, should be avoided like a pandemic flu, it's their opinion and their entitled to it. No matter how bigoted and ignorant.

[quinnox]

63. Thank you juror #6, you nailed it

The alerter was way, way, off base in this alert and their alerting message.

[BainsBane]

64. You should take this as a teachable moment

rather than doubling down. We are all raised with messages about race, but we have an opportunity to examine them so as we can rid ourselves of some of those racist ideas.

[quinnox]

65. It sounds like you think political correctness demands we have to say we like afros

regardless of our own personal preferences and likes/dislikes in what we find attractive. That is utterly ridiculous. Think about it.

You have an agenda, that is obvious, and it has nothing to do with my posts in this thread. You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in order to fit your agenda.

[BainsBane]

66. it's called respect for other human beings and equality

If for you that is political correctness, that is indeed very sad. My agenda is human equality and an end to racism. It is unfortunate you find that so objectionable.

[quinnox]

67. Your twisting of my words into meanings that are unintended and purely imaginary has grown tedious

And that is what I find truly objectionable. I think I will leave it there.

[BainsBane]

75. What I'm doing is to ask you to think about how your words have been received

As this subthread shows, black women have found them offensive. Think about whether your desire to express your own preferences is really more important than the fact that African Americans are hurt by those comments.

[Ecumenist]

81. Well, since you said you like erm, "SHORT" hair on women, what about TWA--TEENY, WEENY AFROS?

I find it interesting that you claim your dislike of AFRICAN, Melanesian & some Asians hair isn't because it's often Naturally Kinky curly but because it's LONG? Does that make sense to you? Many black women wear TWA once they BC, (BIG CHOP), meaning that they cut off the straightened portions. So what about that? You also understand that we were valued based on skinTONE and HAIR texture, with the lighter our skin and straighter our hair, the more VALUABLE we were considered. What you said is indeed DISGUSTINGLY insulting but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't realise how ignorant your comments really are.

[BainsBane]

82. Except

It's been pointed out to him by several people and he refuses to consider how hurtful the remark is.

[kwassa]

69. No, juror #6's opinion was ignorant, actually.

Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Racist, really? It sounds like an opinion about a certain particular hair style. The poster says they don't think the look in the OP looks good "on anyone". The alerter needs to chill out. Nobody is trying to "insist " anything, it's just a personal opinion being expressed. Besides, do we know the poster's race?

You are saying that black women wearing her hair in style that is most natural to them never looks good, when you say that an Afro doesn't look good on anyone. White women don't wear their hair in Afros because they don't have the tight curl that makes it possible.

Now, you might not think your opinion is racist. I disagree, when you make a sweeping statement that essentially says that black hair in a natural style is ugly.

and no black person would ever make such an ignorant statement about black hair, which is why juror # 6 is so laughable. Your race? Not only not black, but not even familiar with black.

[BainsBane]

70. I keep thinking today of one of my earliest memories

I was probably about 5 or 6. I was at a friends house, and her mother was ironing her hair with the clothes iron. I was perplexed, worried for her, but also mesmerized. It left an impression on me. I remember very little from my childhood but that stuck with me.

[kwassa]

71. In the late '60s, white girls with curly hair would iron their hair, too.

The look then was to have long, straight hair parted in the middle. No curls allowed, though that came later.

Have you ever seen cast-iron curling irons heated to red-hot over a gas stove, and then used to straighten hair?

[BainsBane]

73. I'm a white woman with curly hair

who even in recent years have had trouble finding a stylist who did't insist I straighten my hair. When it's long, like now, it takes on the look of a half grown out perm. Curly Irish hair, however, isn't an Afro and doesn't carry the same racial meaning. I happen to think natural hair is beautiful, but really it's none of my business to pass judgement on how black women want to wear their hair.

I don't think I've ever seen those cast irons in real life, only in movies. I'm trying to remember if my friend's mom used one of those on her, but I thought it was a clothes iron. I think it was one of those old clothing irons you heat up on the fire. I suppose it was possible it was another kind of iron but I took it as a clothes iron because that was my frame of reference. This was the late 60s, so it was a very long time ago.

[kwassa]

74. A former girlfriend's sister ...

straightened my girlfriend's hair in front me with such devices. They looked ancient. Heated it to red-hot on the stove.

I am a white male, girlfriend is a black female. The sister was trying to bust my chops, trying to see if I could hang.

This is about 20 years ago.

I am now married to a black woman who is growing out her natural hair.

[Ecumenist]

83. I used to get my hair "pressed" when I was a girl but NEVER with an iron but a HOT COMB.

It's an IRON comb with a thick spine and close set teeth, meant to straighten the hair after being heated up either on a stove burner or a plug in stove made expressly for the purpose.

[BainsBane]

84. That might have been what it was

but that I remember it differently because my only frame of reference for an iron at that age was one for clothes. I may have been as young as four at the time.

[Ecumenist]

85. Yeah, I understand. It probably was a hot comb. Do you remember her mom oiling

her hair as she "pressed" it?

[BainsBane]

86. No

not specifically. I think I remember an ironing board. I also remember having baloney sandwiches with potato chips in them. I thought those were magical. She moved away when I was still very young and I never saw her after that.

[Ecumenist]

87. Aww, that's too bad. I know that white women sometimes literally IRONED their hair

but we either pressed or flat ironed ours.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. seriously? someone keeping her hair natural is looking for attention?

ugh

[Little Star]

51. .

[Gormy Cuss]

43. Here's a movie recommendation for you:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/good-hair/

[BainsBane]

57. I was going to say

never insult a black woman's hair. This movie shows why.

[laundry_queen]

79. That was a great documentary

I'm pretty ignorant about AA hair as I grew up in a pretty white area (small town, Canada) and the only 2 black girls I knew wore their hair natural. My SIL is half black and she just lets hers go natural - it's pretty kinky but she can get it to look more curly (her dad was very dark - Jamaican, but her mother was blond/blue eyed so her hair is a bit more relaxed). She's never done the whole beauty salon/weave thing. I had no idea the whole hair thing was so involved. I actually found it kind of sad. I think AA hair is beautiful. I also love afros. It's not a look I could ever achieve without a wig (poker straight thin hair here).

[Gormy Cuss]

88. Rock did a good job of handling a serious topic with humor. n/t

[BainsBane]

89. Chris Rock is a genius, IMO

I love him.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

90. Bye dickhead. Hopefully you won't be running into people with afros in your

future travels.

[bravenak]

91. +1

After reading this again, i'm pissed off.

[reformist2]

12. Umm, people have been freely wearing their hair however they like since about 1968.

That Oprah, such a trendsetter! :p

[Skittles]

13. I have long wished afros would make a comeback

I remember them well from when I was a teenager and they are COOL!!

[xmas74]

22. I always wanted a 'fro.

But I'm Scottish/Finnish American with thick, curly/wavy, red hair. I just don't see it working out.

[HipChick]

14. I don't care for Ms Winfrey

but I am glad that she is bringing all this out in the open...

and I hate the fact that folks are thinking what she should be spending her money on...

I don't care if she purchases a $40K handbag...she earned it,and deserves it..

[Skittles]

23. I have never been able to stand her

I think she's as phony as Paula Deen

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. One of the best things I ever did in my entire life was embracing my natural curls. I love my hair,

and am amazed at how often I'm stopped on the street by both white and black people who compliment my hair. Minds are opening on black hair and more black women are opening their own hearts and minds to the idea of "going natural".

[Ms. Toad]

41. Yay! n/t

[malaise]

17. No - too late for that

Last edited Mon Aug 12, 2013, 08:56 PM - Edit history (1)

My one grouse with Oprah, Essence and Ebony has been their complicity re Afro-women, processing, weave, wigs and hair - my hair has been natural for well over 40 years - still better late than never.

I always loved my hair and never cared who wanted it processed including my mother and some of my siblings

[HipChick]

33. LMAO!

Malaise ..props to you fighting the creamy crack all these years..

[malaise]

34. Not me and that shite sis

had better things to do with my money

[csziggy]

24. I enjoy "kinky" whether it's hair or life style! YAY, Ophrah! n/t

[markpkessinger]

25. Uh, that would be "Brava" -- just sayin'

[Bay Boy]

30. Black women seem to be able to pull off any

hair style. OK this afro is extreme, as it's meant to be, but black women can look great in an afro and what's really neat is they can look great bald too. Not many white women can pull off that look.

[pipi_k]

39. Bald black women...

Or, in this case, nearly bald...


Magnificent!!

[Art_from_Ark]

32. Oh, give me a head with hair!

[Tikki]

37. I think fros are amazing....

I miss the NBA with tight short shorts and the fros.



Tikki

[PoliticAverse]

77. Docter J was never quite the same after he went with the short hair.

I think it changed his aerodynamics.

[Orrex]

42. I hate to say it, but...

I totally missed the boat on the whole "black women's hair" issue.

I had no idea that people were being such assholes and giving women a hard time about it. What a load of shit.


I'm not Oprah's biggest fan, but I'm glad that she's drawn attention to the issue.

[hedgehog]

45. If you can get hold of a copy - check this film out:

Chris Rock - Good Hair

[Go Vols]

47. Full movie streaming here

http://www.solarmovie.so/link/play/1343662/

[Orrex]

50. Thanks--I'll give it a look!

[hedgehog]

44. If I may, and I hope no one is offended by this,

because I think it is amusing to see the tables turned --

One of my daughters has unusual incredibly thick, wavy red hair down to her waist. It's texture is very similar to the hair bought from India used in weaves. We were talking last week, and she said "Black people feel my hair!"

Another daughter has very, very curly hair - just short of kinky. Her hair is very thick, too. It was a running joke through her college years that her friends of Asian origin were fascinated with touching her hair.

[Vashta Nerada]

48. A bravo? How about big f-ing deal.

I shaved off all my hair. Do I deserve a bravo?

Did I miss something?

[Orrex]

49. Bravo!

[BainsBane]

58. Yes, you have missed a lot.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

61. +1

[question everything]

72. And some women's hair never grows back

after chemotherapy.

[itsrobert]

78. Next edition talks about Brazilian Wax

No word if Oprah will be on the cover for that edition.