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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy would a high school have an indoor rifle range?
This seems a little weird to see students walking through the halls with rifles. However, these officials think it is wonderful. Read below.
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A live indoor rifle range at a public high school: awesome or totally awesome?
A gleaming new high school that opened last week in one of Atlantas toniest neighborhoods boasts an indoor rifle range and a slew of other amazing perks.
The rifle range at North Atlanta High School is for the schools Junior Reserve Officer Training Corp as well as its rifle team, reports Atlanta ABC affiliate WSB-TV.
Response from parents and students has been cautious but generally very positive.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/12/a-live-indoor-rifle-range-at-a-public-high-school-awesome-or-totally-awesome/#ixzz2bvmR6DPI
Sotf
(76 posts)Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Wish my hs had one.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Which is where I shot for my marksmanship qualification in ROTC.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)winterpark
(168 posts)ones that walk around with rifles. Also, unless the kids are on a range, they are not allowed to touch the live rifles. All the drill with rifles are done with dummy rifles.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)odds are that it'll either be those, or demilitarised M1's or M14's. (Actual rifles, with the breech blocked and the firing mechanism removed.)
B Calm
(28,762 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)They're fucking COMPRESSED AIR-POWERED PELLET RIFLES!
tumtum
(438 posts)No, you just had a knee jerk reaction seeing the headline.
Their air rifles, nothing more.
Response to tumtum (Reply #41)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Popular sport in rural areas. It's actually an Olympic sport in the Summer Olympics.
JHB
(37,158 posts)It was in a basement area I had assumed where the boiler/heating/etc. were located, but was used in some evenings by people qualifying for permits, and safety training by the local PD. (including "go run a few laps around the track, then come back here and watch how your accuracy falls off when your blood's pumping and your adrenaline is up" to discourage those who were just trying to get get the permit "for protection" .
The school had a rifle team back when it was built (in the late 40s, IIRC). By the time I went there 30 years later the team was gone, but the range was still there. From what I heard when I found out about it, the team was discontinued due to liability insurance rates in the 60s or early 70s.
This is in the NYC suburbs.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)The ones here all have at least one for air rifles, many for .22s but that is declining. One I know of has only an outdoor so to practice air rifle indoors they actually use the lunch room with a portable backstop and the air rifles.
When I was in high school it was common for the kids on the rifle team to have permission to bring their own guns from home for practice.
It really is both common and no big deal. It is better students learn firearm safety from somebody qualified rather than the movies. The hunters safety courses that use them, that most states now made mandatory before getting a hunting license, have been shown to decrease accidents.
If anything the number of schools with ranges that teach firearm safety is sharply declining, so I wouldn't try and connect them with school shootings, because a decline in firearms instruction plus a rise in shooting might lead down a path that wasn't what you were thinking.
Rhiannon12866
(205,237 posts)I spent a lot of time there because I was on the school rifle team. And we never even thought of carrying rifles through the halls. They were locked in a gun cabinet in the range unless we were using them. That is, unless we had an away match. Then we took them with us on the bus, but they were kept in cases.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)...and that's a good thing. My high school was and still is in Manhattan and we had one. We had an excellent rifle team.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)school marksmanship teams, teach weapons safety and use, ROTC qualifications. Not all people are scared of rifles and want to ban them. Those black plastic ones are the worst of all.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Still a great sport to offer the kids even if it is lowly pellet rifles.
FBaggins
(26,731 posts)and is riskier?
Lots of schools used to have them... and kids kept the firearms in their lockers... and there were far fewer school shootings.
Society has changed, but it isn't because there are guns around.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)They trenched it so the range sat below ground level, and there were steel baffles above the targets to keep ricochet's down, but it was out there where everyone could see it. As others have mentioned, it was used by the schools marksmanship team and ROTC program. Of course, I grew up back before school shootings were even entertained as a possibility, so they also used .22's, and not bb guns.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts)We also had gun racks in the rear windows of our trucks. Wouldn't dream of it now. We would be pulled over or the guns would be stolen. Life was much simpler and safer back then.
hack89
(39,171 posts)don't see what the big deal is.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Right behind Seal Team 6 is the elite squad from Atlanta Highschool's ROTC.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...to ask the operators from ST6 when and how they first learned to shoot.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)I would bet not what many here expected.
We had an indoor range at my high school in upstate NY. I took my rifle and ammo with me on the school bus and left them in my locker all day until rifle practice after school. Nobody cared.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)perhaps that's why my 8th grade teacher allowed me to bring a shotgun to class to demonstrate how it worked and how to clean it safely. I guess anything was better than nothing.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)used a club.
dr.strangelove
(4,851 posts)I encourage any school to teach gun safety and not to fear firearms. Rifles are used in international and domestic sporting events as well as for various non athletic school social organizations (like ROTC and some scouting like groups). Firearms are going to be a part of life, I think its best to teach what they truly are and how ot handle them safely.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)It should be mandatory for both. Because in both cases knowledge of safe practices can save lives.
A parent may be steadfastly anti-gun, just as some are steadfastly anti-sex outside marriage. But that doesn't mean you can't ensure you child will never be around a gun in their life. Better they should know how to responsibly at least ensure it is unloaded in a safe manner, and be able to spot someone being unsafe and either stop them or know enough to leave the area.
Just like sex, if we let the media and friends do all the education the wrong message is learned.
dr.strangelove
(4,851 posts)Guns are not going anywhere. They should not be feared, they should be respected though.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)They are deadly weapons designed as such.
Even if you support "responsible use," any thing that is designed with the specific intent to kill/injure/simulate killing needs to be feared for good measure.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)We acknowledge the impact of creating the forbidden fruit with sex, alcohol, drugs, etc., but somehow think the logic ceases to exist with guns. Education is the key.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)For example. I live in Florida. I fear alligators. Alligators have lots of teeth that can bite you, maim you, even kill you. I would not touch an alligator in the wild. I would not try feeding an alligator. I would not swim in waters where I see an alligator swimming close by (no matter how cool of a thrill that would seem to be.)
I also find alligators to be magnificent creatures. I love them. I get excited whenever I see one. I wish there were more of them. I can't stand the thought of alligator poaching and people who illegally kill these awesome animals.
Fear can be healthy. And some things need to be feared, whether they be alligators or guns.
And in my opinion, guns, like alligators, should be feared.
Fearing something is far different than calling for their entire elimination.
Do you comprehend the difference here between the two concepts, or is it totally lost on you?
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Do you comprehend the difference here between the two concepts, or is it totally lost on you?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Respect is a loaded term.
One can choose to respect guns, or not choose to respect guns. I personally don't care one way or another whether you choose to respect guns or not.
But everyone should have a healthy, rational fear of what they are capable of doing.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)People use their fears that "someone might get hurt" to infringe on other people's freedoms. They did it with alcohol, drugs, knives, comic books, and now the latest fear is guns.
I am not going to let the fearful dictate what I can do in my life. You have fears then see a counselor.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Guns are designed to kill, injure or simulate killing/injuring another person or being.
Alcohol and drugs, particularly when abused, could cause death or injury. However, that is not their intended purpose, and most often the risks are to one's own self and not to others. Only when combined with some other factor, like a car--or say, a gun--can abuse of alcohol and drugs create a danger to the public at large.
Comic books--I don't see any reason to fear them, and I don't think one can use a comic book as a physical weapon, unless you intend to paper cut someone to death.
Even knives, which can be used as weapons, have a intended purpose other than for use as a weapon, and thus they are not in the same league as guns. Although a small degree of healthy fear towards some more extreme knives might be warranted.
But when something is placed into the stream of commerce that is designed with the specific intent of killing, injuring or simulating killing/injuring, there needs to be a healthy, rational, non-histrionic fear of that thing.
Now, I do think there is a problem with irrational fear and guns in this country, but that irrational fear rests in those who own the guns. I'm talking about people who live in extremely safe neighborhoods who insist on having a gun because they are all but assured they will somehow be the victim of a violent home invasion at some point down the road. I'm talking about people who insist on having a gun because they believe it might be necessary for the purposes of an armed revolution against a tyrannical government that does not actually exist.
Those are irrational fears surround guns, and those are the types of fears that gets people hurt or killed.
But in understanding the specific intent of a gun and having a rational and healthy fear of it is not a bad thing.
beevul
(12,194 posts)"Guns are designed to kill, injure or simulate killing/injuring another person or being."
Guns are designed to propel a projectile at a target of the users choosing. Nothing more, nothing less.
The great majority of times a gun is fired in America, it is NOT to kill, injure, or the like - based on the BILLIONS of rounds fired by non-military/non-leo gun owners every year. Theres no getting around that simple fact.
Your characterization of their use as "or simulate killing/injuring another person or being", is just that, your characterization.
Nothing more, nothing less.
"But in understanding the specific intent of a gun and having a rational and healthy fear of it is not a bad thing."
Your own words betray you - that's one hell of a statement, considering that understanding the specific intent of a gun, based on your own words here, is the point which you are farthest from.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Guns--and I mean real guns, not water guns, paintball guns, BB guns, etc.--are designed to propel a lead bullet at supersonic speed in order to penetrate said target and cause substantial damage to that target, whether that target be paper, animal flesh or human flesh.
Now, maybe you are right in saying the vast majority of times guns are shot, they are shot at inanimate targets at places such as shooting ranges, and not at other human beings.
But let's be honest with yourself. Most people who take their guns to shooting ranges aren't just frivolously shooting at pieces of paper without any thought whatsoever as to what that paper might represent in a real life situation. Otherwise, you wouldn't frequently see targets that look like this:
Or this:
Or even this wonderfully lovely, tasteful and totally classy one right here:
So yes, my characterization of using guns to simulate killing/injuring is more than just my little uninformed opinion.
(And no, I'm not attacking the practice of going to shooting ranges and target practice itself in any way. I'm just saying that even in those legitimate circumstances the specific intent of a gun as a deadly weapon is very much an underlying reality even when dealing with non-living targets.)
So consider those three specific intended purposes of guns and realize to yourself that there exists no other specific intent for a gun. Not even as a hammer, a hole punch or a bottle opener.
Guns are deadly weapons, and specifically designed as such. That's irrespective to questions of their legality or morality; it's just undisputed that they are extraordinary tools like very few others.
And when something is both extraordinary and potentially lethal, it must be subject to extraordinary caution and restraint. Which is also described as having a rational and healthy fear of that item.
tumtum
(438 posts)but that last target? Ugh. It's racist, vile and in very poor taste.
Now, I do own several firearms, I don't fear any of then, but I do have a lot of respect for what they can do if handled improperly or with callous disregard for their power.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)It just underscores that even in target shooting, the lethality of a firearm is never fully pushed aside.
tumtum
(438 posts)and the lethality should never ever be forgotten, when that happens, then that's when the potentially tragic results can happen.
hack89
(39,171 posts)not feared but respected.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)You should have to understand what they can do.
And in understanding, that's building a healthy, rational fear.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I don't live my life in fear. I educate myself so I can make rational decisions. Having decided it is worthwhile to engage in a potentially dangerous activity, I take the time to learn how to do it safely - I view it as a serious matter that needs to be taken seriously.
After all that, if I find myself still afraid, I don't do it.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)To me, it connotes a sense of approval of something, or that you like that thing.
Maybe that's not the intention, but if someone says one must "respect" something, it comes off asking that one have some degree of admiration for it. And whether you like something or not is totally up to you.
Some people like guns. Other people do not like guns.
So I am hesitant to say that people must "respect" guns.
I do think that everyone needs to understand guns, whether they personally like them or not. Understand what they can do and what they are designed to do.
And to be frank, there are a lot of gun owners in this country--legal gun owners at that--who I don't think truly believe understand their own guns. And they may very well respect them, but I don't think they understand them.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I have a healthy respect for the dangers of alcohol abuse, having lost several friends to it. I do not like or approve of it. Neither do I fear it - I merely have a good understanding of its dangers and the importance of not indulging in it.
Your comment about gun owners not understanding their guns exploded my irony meter. The ignorance of guns by many gun control advocates is demonstrated frequently here at DU. When gun owners then attempt to correct them on the technical aspects of guns, we are derided for "attempting to derail the conversation" or for parroting "NRA talking points."
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)...you're talking about having a healthy respect for the dangers of alcohol abuse. Dangers need to be feared. Dangers would not exist but for the concept of fear. So yes, you do have a fear of the dangers of alcohol abuse, and it is a rational, well-founded and healthy fear. Otherwise you would be drinking recklessly and putting yourself (and possibly others) in peril, which I assume you are not. (And good for you on that, may I add.)
That doesn't mean you have a fear of alcohol itself, or that you can't respect alcohol itself. That's a totally different question. I too do not fear alcohol itself, and in fact have a certain degree of respect for it. Many--if not most--people do.
As for my point regarding irrational fear and gun ownership, I would posit that a large amount of gun owners in this country do not actually need their gun, and that the reasons that they bought those weapons is based out of irrational fear.
Just take, for example, the huge amount of people who after Sandy Hook Elementary went out and started buying AR-15s, and started stockpiling vast amounts of ammunition. Now, after December 14, 2012, did the chances of being a victim of a violent home invasion magically skyrocket to where one would need not only a gun, but a high capacity AR-15 to defend one's self?
Of course not. People bought AR-15s after Sandy Hook because they feared they might not be able to buy them later. Which is circular logic and totally unrelated to the actual necessity of having the weapon itself. That they did so in the shadow of a horrific tragedy involving such a weapon just adds to their paranoia and lack of rationality.
Note, I am not advocating for a blanket prohibition on private gun ownership, nor have I ever advocated for such a blanket prohibition. However, I do think a lot of unnecessary deaths in this country would be avoided if people stopped to ask themselves a simple question: "Do I really need this gun? Are the perceived dangers that form the basis of my decision to buy this gun outweighed by the risks of what might happen by my possession of it?"
If people stopped to ask themselves that question, and honestly answer it, I truly believe we'd see a lot less gun violence in this country. And you wouldn't even need to pass any laws to do it.
Unfortunately, people don't ask themselves that question. They convince themselves into thinking something is a necessity even when it probably isn't.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Fear of them is irrational.
A student is far more likely to be killed by a car than a gun. We don't insist on teaching students to fear driving, we use drivers ed to, hopefully, get across how dangerous driving can be and teach them to respect it and be responsible.
As has been pointed out, just saying "guns evil, stay away." Just makes them forbidden fruit. Coupled with ignorance and a lack of respect for how dangerous they can be when misused, teens end up gravitated to the forbidden fruit and then play with them like they see on video games and movies.
Teach a healthy respect for them, how to be safe with them, and what to do if someone is being unsafe. Remove the mystique that glamorizes them by familiarity.
I can see a definite difference between a teen who has been taught to respect a firearm and handle it safely and one who learned all they know from video games. My Army Reserve unit did a recruiting event at a fair where there was also a display of historical weapons an militaria. The kids who had been properly taught when allowed to hold the old WWII guns ( ones that had been deactivated and could not fire) checked to ensure they were unloaded and kept them aimed in a safe direction. The ones who had not almost all immediately pulled the trigger as soon as it was handed to them and were aiming them wildly as if they were toys. I felt sorry for the guys watching them, they tried to correct them and give them safety lessons, but it was one after another.
You may dislike guns, but you can't argue that having teens so ignorant on safe handling that if they do come across one they handle it in an unsafe manner like it is a video game is a good thing.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Understood, also yes.
Respected--well, that would be in the eye of the beholder.
It is not irrational to have a healthy fear of something when that something is an object designed with the specific intent of killing, injuring or simulating killing or injuring.
I'm not saying being hysterical at the sight of a gun. I'm saying a healthy, rational fear of an extraordinary object.
And guns are most definitely an extraordinary object.
And guns are not cars.
hack89
(39,171 posts)yet no one questions building High Schools with parking lots and letting teenage kids drive to school.
When I taught my kids to drive, I instilled in them a healthy respect for what can go wrong behind the wheel of a car. I did not teach them to drive in fear.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)I cannot say that enough, and I have to say that over and over.
Cars are not guns. Period.
In this particular country, which is large, sprawling and in most places is designed specifically for private vehicles and not for public transportations (save a few large metropolises), having a car is viewed as almost a necessity.
Having a gun is very rarely viewed as necessity, unless one is a police officer or a member of the military.
hack89
(39,171 posts)which poses a greater realistic threat to those students?
You (like many people) are able to rationalize and minimize the everyday dangers around you because you are not willing to change how you live. Cars are different from guns merely because you do not want to change how you use your car. You don't like guns and don't own one so making other people fear them and give them up easy for you.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)And one is actually used as a weapon exponentially higher than the other.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)We are all going to die. Disease, car accidents, gun deaths included.
But where we can try to prevent premature, unnatural deaths is to focus on instruments that are designed with the specific intent to kill. It won't prevent all deaths but it will help to slow some of the grief in this world.
hack89
(39,171 posts)They are all about competition, skill, quality time with my family and friends. If you have a problem with that, so be it. It's up to you to deal with your own fears.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)If you aren't going to fear your guns, you aren't going to fear your guns and I can't make you think otherwise.
But there's a difference between "can" and "should."
hack89
(39,171 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Manages to kill people, old and young, at a frightening pace. And is also used in the commission of violent crimes quite often. All of this despite NOT being designed to do so.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)As compared to the same rate for firearms?
dr.strangelove
(4,851 posts)Driving is very much like this. A car is a deadly weapon as well if not respected. Thousands die because they do not respect the power of an automobile. I think all should be taught about car safety, just as all should be taught gun safety. If you do not want your kids taking a driving safety class or a gun safety class, I would support anyone opting out of it, but I would make it available to all.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)You don't need to tell your kids to approach random strangers to teach them the concept of "stranger danger".
You can teach kids what do when they find a gun without actually giving them the guns themselves. It's pretty easy, actually.
Guns don't need to be "respected". They need to be understood of what they are designed to do and what they can do, and that understanding constitutes a rational, healthy fear.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)My high school track was a literal stone's throw from a rod-n-gun club, and we routinely joked that we had to run faster in order to give them a harder-to-hit target.
Simpler times, simpler times.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Air rifles are a common way to teach marksmanship and firearms safety. The students using this range and the air rifles are part of the Junior ROTC program. The military uses firearms. Makes perfect sense.
Air rifles. ROTC. Much ado about not much at all.
bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)The high school my daughters go to had a rifle range for years where the ROTC kids trained. That program got cut a while back (post vietnam) and the range re-purposed for some general sports stuff, but there was certainly nothing wrong with it.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)If they teach the less rich to use guns they can be soldiers to fight for the rich to hunt.
wercal
(1,370 posts)But I've seen plenty of students 'walking through the halls with rifles' at schools - the drill team.
If you go to a high school graduation or football game, it is very likely you will see an honor guard, under arms. The rifles are most likely disabled...but JROTC students walk around with them all the time...sort of like a football player carrying around his helmet on the way out the door to practice.
markiv
(1,489 posts)just a guess
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)They are air rifles for gawd's sake. People these days would shit their pants and faint over my High School ROTC 1971-1975.
We had a 50ft INDOOR Small Bore Rifle (.22 LR) range in my school, and it was on the second floor. We all got to qualify with single shot bolt action .22 LR rifles. We had hearing and eye protection. No one EVER got hurt. Ever. We would sit in the ROTC classroom, while one concrete block wall away the Rifle Team practiced.
And the best shot, and the Captain of our Rifle Team for the last 3 years was a Latino female. Her name was Rosemary. She had every possible medal and ribbon for Small Bore Rifle. The front of her shooting jacket was covered BOTH sides when she wore all of them. She had so many trophies I can't even remember. I was in awe of her abilities. Anyone who thinks females can not outshoot males never met her.
NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)It was for use by JROTC, we fired .22s for marksmanship qualification (I was a LOUSY shot.) We drilled with M-14s that had the firing pins removed. When we weren't drilling with them, they were kept under lock and key in the rifle room's locker.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Drilled with them too. Got to shoot one (outdoors) at ROTC Summer Camp one year. I was a poor shot with the M-14. My glasses fogged up so much on the range from the summer humidity I could not see shit. I didn't even qualify as marksman. I knew at that point I never wanted to be an Infantryman. My life expectancy in combat would have measured in minutes.
madmom
(9,681 posts)home ec department? You know were they can learn things needed in real life?
Deep13
(39,154 posts)CK_John
(10,005 posts)other schools. I remember they were bolt action.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)As long as they aren't skimping on something else (like teacher salaries) to fund it.
But can you imagine an inner city HS with a rifle range?
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)If nothing else some sort of temporary setup where they have a portable backstop for air rifles.
If the school has had an established JROTC program for more than 10-20 years, odds are they have a rifle team.
Inner city kids are just as capable of learning and perhaps tuning out to be Olympic class competitors if given a chance, I don't see why anyone would expect less.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)Whooo-Hoooo, WVU They have the best rifle team on earth, always have had, always will have.
http://www.register-herald.com/todayssportsfront/x2045492179/WVU-rifle-team-claims-nation-s-best-15th-title
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The rifle range at North Atlanta High School is for the schools Junior Reserve Officer Training Corp as well as its rifle team, reports Atlanta ABC affiliate WSB-TV.
Answer was right in your op.
PD Turk
(1,289 posts)I was on the JROTC marksmanship team, we fired single shot target grade .22 rifles. I qualified expert all 3 years and our team won several trophies.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)I, for one, am outraged.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)One of my nephews is on his high school's rifle team. He is pretty good at it. I get to watch when the meets are broadcast on the internet.
Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)
Politicalboi This message was self-deleted by its author.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Cross country and marksmanship teams trained on them.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Really?
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)If so you would have seen a link to the original story.
New Atlanta school includes ROTC gun range
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/new-atlanta-school-includes-rotc-gun-range/nZFNk/