"I'm sorry that I hurt the United States" Bradley Manning apologizes in court

[struggle4progress]

By Courtney Kube, Matthew DeLuca and Erin McClam
Updated 4 minutes ago
NBC News

... "I'm sorry I hurt people. I'm sorry that I hurt the United States," he said. "I'm apologizing for the unexpected results of my actions. The last three years have been a learning experience for me."

Manning says he understood what he was doing and the decisions he made. However, he says he did not believe at the time that leaking the information would cause harm ...

"I should have worked more aggressively within the system. Unfortunately, I can't go back and change things," Manning, wearing his dress uniform and glasses, his hair in a crew cut, said from the witness stand ...

"I understand I must pay a price for my decisions," Manning continued in his first lengthy public statement since February ...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/14/20020933-im-sorry-that-i-hurt-the-united-states-bradley-manning-apologizes-in-court?lite

[jberryhill]

1. Where on earth does he get off accusing Bradley Manning of having "hurt people"

Wait until Bradley Manning hears about this.

[struggle4progress]

21. Don't be fooled! This apology came from a programmable animatronic look-alike!

The real Bradley Manning has been snatched away to a secret underground cell in Area 51!

[freshwest]

41. Area 51 is a myth. Figleafs are falling off statues in sympathy to reveal illicit peni.

Uh, sorry. That is to say, I got nothin'

[jberryhill]

80. It is getting on in the year

[freshwest]

84. Oh, I love Nat King Cole. Thanks!

[Cha]

38. Wait until

assange hears about this!

[bravenak]

2. Uh oh.

I appreciate his words.

[derby378]

3. ...said the convict who endured psychological torture at the hands of our military

That apology sounds forced. I don't think you hurt America, Private Manning - you did your duty as a citizen. Unfortunately, there are many among the Powers That Be who see this as a problem.

[struggle4progress]

17. Then why hasn't his lawyer claimed he was tortured?

[rhett o rick]

55. Why dont you just come out and tell us your point in lieu of making us guess with

clever questions?

[struggle4progress]

101. Oops! Didn't realize we were chatting too fast for you. Sorry. Here's a quick explanation, to help

get you up to speed

The OP notes that Manning today apologized

in reply, derby378 suggested that Manning had been tortured and that the apology was coerced

Of course, if Manning had been tortured, it would be his lawyer's responsibility to raise that fact. But AFAIK, Coombs has never claimed Manning was tortured. So I asked, why hasn't he raised it?

It seems a reasonable question to me, and the answer might be informative

For example, perhaps Coombs has never claimed Manning was tortured because (in fact) Manning was never tortured; or perhaps because CIA death-squads warned Coombs that if he said anything about Manning being tortured, they would dissolve his granny in acid; or perhaps because Coombs, as a member of the Illuminati, has dedicated his life to conspiring against fair trials for defendants; or perhaps because Coombs becomes so anxious at the word "torture" that he immediately tries to calm himself with several hours of sexting strangers on the internet; or ...

derby378 might have responded in many possible different ways, some of which could have been informative

[rhett o rick]

141. My question, which you failed to address was "Why dont you tell us your point?"

You instead decided to make inference via question. That's a Fox Noise trick. "Is Obama a Muslim?" They dont have any evidence they just infer. So you are inferring that since Manning's lawyer didnt bring up the torture, that it must not have happened.

Does it make you feel good to think that Manning was tortured? That'd show the bastard that dared to challenge our authoritarian state. Do you think all whistle-blowers should be smote?

[JDPriestly]

72. Because the court is part of the institution that tortured him.

Punishing people for telling the truth does not make them or anyone else more honest.

The Manning who released the information was being truthful. He was disgusted by the callous disregard for human life and suffering he saw in the troops serving with him, and even more disgusted with the diplomats who wine and dine on a foreign policy that works only for the 1%.

Manning will be remembered for having revealed the truth about the guys who watched an on-going murder on a video and an attack on a truck containing children and screamed for more blood, more pain, more violence.

What Manning said in court after being held, at times, naked, in a tiny cell in solitary confinement will be forgotten.

[DevonRex]

62. It sounds like a strong young man to me.

One who has matured and doesn't idolize Assange anymore. Bradley Manning has come into his own.

[freshwest]

86. And may his dreams still come true:

...He said he hoped to some day get out of prison, earn a college degree, have a meaningful relationship with his family and be a productive member of society...

From a story linked below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3463821

[AZ Progressive]

104. You sound like someone who would applaud "1984"'s O'Brien

[DevonRex]

108. Who are you again?

Oh yeah. Some total stranger on the internet. Congratulations. You can type.

[laundry_queen]

109. Great substantive post!

[DevonRex]

111. As substantive as a personal attack deserves,

other total stranger on the internet who proves she can type...

[laundry_queen]

112. LOL, like your posts AREN'T personal attacks?

You have a strange way of rationalizing your post, other person on the internet who can type.

[G_j]

113. obviously, so can you

and it doesn't even take typing something intelligent, productive or helpful. Imagine that.

[freshwest]

132. Don't bother. Saying you would like the torturer in 1984 is a clear personal attack and baiting.

[DevonRex]

137. Thank you.

And then I was *so mean* and said they could type. I should be ashamed.

[freshwest]

144. You'd have to had remembered the reference. He was a sadistic, deceitful, evil being, not you.

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:18 AM - Edit history (1)

And you did not make a personal attack, just made a snark so you did nothing wrong. What was said was extremely personal, like calling a DU member a murderer.

That's OTT. There's always Ignore. Why engage with anyone taking a cheap shot, it's a waste of time. Sorry that was said to you. It was not even about the topic or your opinion, it was about you. No one knows anyone here in real life so we should not infer personal traits about each other for any reason.

Carry on. I thought your comment was supportive of Manning and wishing him the best. I also wish him healing and happiness after all he's been through in life, an awful lot, long before this passage in his life before the public eye.

Apparently, he learned through testimony in court that people were hurt by the document dump. He is a caring person who didn't want to hurt anyone.

I think he'll be okay. I'm hoping for a light sentence for him. Maybe he can get his degree in college while he is gone away.

[pnwmom]

134. He did when he released the thousands of diplomatic emails, including unredacted names

of US agents and their foreign associates.

If he had confined himself to releasing the helicopter videos, he could have been a hero. But he let Assange dupe him into stealing and releasing the diplomatic emails. That's where he did harm.

[struggle4progress]

4. Bradley Manning 'sorry' for hurting US at Wikileaks trial

14 August 2013 Last updated at 16:27 ET

... Ahead of Pte Manning's statement, Navy Capt David Moulton, a forensics psychiatrist, testified that ... Pte Manning has a "gender-identity disorder", or "disturbance of one's gender"...

"Gender is very much at the core of our identity," he said, adding that when a person is uncertain about his or her gender, the whole world seems "off-keel".

Amid this turmoil, Pte Manning also became disillusioned about the US war in Iraq and was trying to correct "injustices", Capt Moulton said.

"Manning was under the impression that the leaked information was going to change how the world saw the war in Iraq," the psychiatrist testified ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23700938

[JDPriestly]

75. Does the psychiatrist claim that all GLBTs have an identity disorder?

I know some who definitely do not.

[struggle4progress]

85. This is not prosecution testimony, y'know: it's Manning's defense. Spin it as homophobic if

you want, but Manning has been convicted, and this is part of the effort to keep his sentence short. Manning himself introduced the diagnosis in his chats with Lamo, and his lawyer has been pushing this as mitigation for several years

... In psychiatric terms, Pte Manning has a "gender identity disorder", or "disturbance of one's gender", Capt Moulton said. This is different from being gay, he added ...
Bradley Manning 'sorry' for hurting US at Wikileaks trial
14 August 2013 Last updated at 19:01 ET

... The chats between Manning and Lamo begin May 21, 2010 ... (1:47:01 PM) bradass87: im an army intelligence analyst, deployed to eastern baghdad, pending discharge for “adjustment disorder” in lieu of “gender identity disorder” ...
Manning-Lamo Chat Logs Revealed
By Evan Hansen
07.13.11
3:40 PM

Defense lawyers for an Army private accused in the biggest intelligence leak in U.S. history brought up Saturday a purported female alter ego of Bradley Manning's as they seek to establish his state of mind at the time of the alleged crimes. The testimony came on the second day of Manning's Article 32 hearing, which coincided with his 24th birthday. Special agent Calder Robertson of the Army Criminal Investigation Command (CID), testifying by phone from Germany, was asked by one of Manning's attorneys if he knew that the Army private had an alter ego with the name, Breanna Manning. The agent said he was aware Manning used the name in online chats. During questioning by Manning's lawyer, it was revealed that Manning kept a folder of articles about gender identity disorder in his living quarters ...
Bradley Manning's gender identity comes up in testimony
By Larry Shaughnessy, CNN Pentagon Producer
updated 9:08 PM EST, Sat December 17, 2011

Attorneys representing Pfc. Bradley Manning, a 24-year-old Army private previously identified as gay, startled observers at a pre-court martial hearing on Saturday by saying allegations that Manning leaked classified U.S. intelligence information could be linked to a personal struggle over his gender identity ...
Lawyers say Bradley Manning struggled with gender identity disorder
December 19, 2011
By Lou Chibbaro Jr. on December 19, 2011

[struggle4progress]

5. Manning tells court he's "sorry" for U.S. secrets breach to WikiLeaks

Published: Thursday August 15, 2013 MYT 5:00:30 AM
Updated: Thursday August 15, 2013 MYT 5:00:30 AM
Ian Simpson

FORT MEADE, Maryland (Reuters) - ... Manning's main lawyer, David Coombs, was expected to finish his case on Wednesday at Fort Meade, Maryland, asking for a lenient sentence after calling a dozen witnesses ...

Captain Michael Worsley, who treated Manning from December 2009 to May 2010 during his deployment in Iraq, testified that the stress Manning had felt from his job as a low-level intelligence analyst was compounded by being in a "hyper masculine environment" of a combat zone.

"Being in the military and having a gender identity issue does not exactly go hand in hand," Worsley said. "You put him in that kind of environment, this hyper masculine environment if you will, with no coping skills, the pressure would have been incredible" ...

Testifying for the defence, Navy Reserve Captain David Moulton ... said Manning thought it "would lead to a greater good. Society as a whole would come to the conclusion that the war wasn't worth it, that no war was worth it" ...

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/World/2013/08/15/US-soldier-Manning-could-break-silence-as-WikiLeaks-trial-nears-end.aspx

[kelliekat44]

31. He wants a light sentence so he has to apologize to get one. nt

[randome]

48. Only the judge knows whether he sounds authentic or not.

Often, that's the only thing a judge has to go on.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[arely staircase]

53. so the judge should disregard his apology? nt

[bluestate10]

76. Manning said that if he could do it over, he would fight to change the system from

within. Too bad he has lost his freedom to learn that important lesson.

[nomorenomore08]

135. Awfully patronizing, don't you think? Not as if "the system" is so just and trustworthy...

[freshwest]

49. He looks so gentle in the picture at the link. He's been taken advantage of by 1% shills.

During the trial, he was no doubt informed of deaths that occured because of the leak. IMO, that's why he said this now in this way. Not so much about the USA, but the people that got hurt. No reason to apologize if no one got hurt.

I expect some will want to 'throw him under the bus' now for not raising a fist or the third finger and giving a 'FU' to all in the courtroom. But we don't know what he knows.

He had it in his heart to correct a wrong. I believe he was hurting inside and a victim of those who saw a way to profit off of a young man reaching out for help. Some 1% shills will claim he was coerced to protect themselves from the fallout of what they made money off and the people that died. They get no sympathy from me.

These words don't sound forced to me. The words were heartfelt. I never saw him as a traitor as he had nothing to gain, and no one to sponsor him for what he did for them.

I hope he gets leniency. The articles appear to support that he deserves mercy from the court. My best wishes to Manning and may he find healing after having been caught up in the media grinder that reached into his life.

[arely staircase]

58. I think he was a confused kid who thought he was doing the right thing

and was manipulated by Assange's ego. I bet you he saw the video of the helicopter killing and some other things and Assange egged him on to do the huge data dump. I don't know that, but I consider him a sympathetic character at this point. Not a hero, still guilty but far from public enemy number one.

[freshwest]

68. Agreed on everything you said. I read one of s4p's earlier threads and followed the money.

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2013, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Wikileaks pulled in tens of millions of dollars a month, but only gave a paltry sum to Manning's defense. I posted a link to the fund last year.

Others gave a million+ but Wikileaks only gave $59K while raking in millions off Bradley's information. The money was siphoned to Assange. Even his associates were angry at Assange for him living it up. He could have worked to protect the source of his fame and fortune.

I noted the sympathy for Assange while the one doing the real suffering was not being wept over. 'Collateral Damage' was what Bradley was in a game of cynical manipulation. JMHO.

http://couragetoresist.org/donate/bradley-manning.html

That's the updated link since last year. When Assange had the money, he didn't send much. To which I'd say:



Because reality has a liberal bias. Manning is a real person who stood up for what he believed in. And he really did suffer for it, too. The others who made money off him, not so much. Meh.

[Number23]

131. "Wikileaks pulled in tens of millions of dollars a month, but only gave a paltry sum to Manning's

defence."

HOLY shit. Do you have a link to that info?

[freshwest]

136. I gave the link on the $59K above; the figures pulled in before they were blocked was on a s4p.

I commented on it at the time my the posts only go back 30 days. The figure before the cutoff was $50M in one month. It was such a shocking figure it blew my mind.

I started following all of s4p's threads on the matter. There was a lot of money passing hands, even Anonymous told Wikileaks to fuck off, as their activists were getting arrested and sent to jail for material they had given Assange, but he didn't help them. Another of the founders of Wikileaks and these are not paupers, any of them - also fought with Assange over his tight control of the finances and not spreading the wealth, so to speak.

The exception to 'any of them' would be some of the Anonymous people, like the ones who passed on the story of the guy who was so upset about the girl he knew in the Stuebenville rape case that he would not let it go. It was then picked up by Anonymous and exposed; but he was a real person with values. Now he has been convicted of some damn charge for alerting with the messages he put on his webpage to get the thing rolling. AFAIK, none of the deep pockets did anything to help him. I see people selling the brands, Anonymous and Wikileaks and I'm not buying it. I look to those in real life for action, they pay the price like Manning did.

The link was among the mainstream newspaper stories posted by s4p. I got to talk to DUers from the UK who explained a lot. Back then I worried about Assange, and supported Wikileaks for years.

But the money trail soured me on him and a lot of things going on that I began to realize I had no clue about. I'm not talking about surviellance, I know quite a bit about that. And my change of heart had nothing to do with the rape story, but I always tend to go for the concrete or hard stuff. Money. Like the Koch brothers who founded the JBS, the Libertarian Party, the Tea Party and the Ron Paul movement. Tainted money in that case, used to fool all of us for the 1%.

I'm not sure why people are not as jaded on media as I am, and that includes the internet. I listen to all sorts of things to get data, then think about stuff. I decided it was a scam.

I'm sorry I don't have the link, as all those stories had different names but they were all posted by s4p. Don't know if he kept them. I'll root around on my computer as I kept some of the links to look into and try to put it all together in my mind. The Assange story has so many angles to it.

But believe me, I'm not making that up to smear Assange or Wikileaks. If I had not seen it here, my mind would not have been challenged to see what was going on behind it. The whole thing has been very educational.

[JDPriestly]

77. What is the evidence that Assange influenced Manning?

Other than claims by that creepy guy who looked like a drug addict in the video I saw -- the one from Wired.

I would not trust that Wired guy further than you can throw an empty needle.

[jberryhill]

91. Follow the money

[JDPriestly]

139. Was it you or someone else who said that Assange did not provide much Wikileaks money

to Manning for his defense? That would suggest to me that any financial ties were belated and not inducement but rather given out of sympathy. I don't think anyone claims a quid pro quo or compensation arrangement of any kind between Assange and Manning.

I would need much better evidence than that. I don't think there was any connection beyond Manning's anonymously posting his information on the Wikileaks website. I haven't heard of anything beyond that. There may have been anonymous communication, but I haven't seen the content. I think it would have come up in the Manning trial if there had been enough to be significantly related to Manning's having offered his information for publication.

[jberryhill]

140. Quite obviously...

...there was no quid pro quo. That's the point.

[struggle4progress]

6. Manning takes stand, apologizes for hurting U.S.

by USA TODAY
Aug. 14, 2013 4:40 PM

FORT MEADE, Maryland (AP) - ... Manning gave an unsworn statement, which means he cannot be cross-examined by prosecutors. He began with an apology ...

http://www.coloradoan.com/usatoday/article/2651539

[struggle4progress]

7. Bradley Manning says sorry for leaks that 'hurt the United States'

Manning, 25, speaks at sentencing phase of his trial and says 'I believed I was going to help people, not hurt people'
Paul Lewis at Fort Meade
Wednesday 14 August 2013 16.37 EDT

... Looking nervous, he turned to Colonel Denise Lind, and said: "First, your honour, I wart to start off with an apology. I am sorry that my actions hurt people; I am sorry that they hurt the United States"...

He said that the consequences of his actions were now "clear to me", a result of the "self-reflection" during his three year confinement.

Manning spoke quickly, and it was not possible for reporters to fully transcribe his entire statement. However, at one point, he remarked: "How on earth could I, a junior analyst, believe I could change the world for the better?" ...

"I have flaws and issues that have to deal with. But I know that I can and will be a better person. I hope that you can give me the opportunity to prove, not through words, but through conduct, that I am a good person"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/14/bradley-manning-sorry-leaks-hurt-united-states

[PowerToThePeople]

8. I love Big Brother

[struggle4progress]

22. Well, everybody's different! I myself simply adore folk who make intelligent informative comments!

[PowerToThePeople]

24. I am glad you feel that way. Sometimes a very simple statement is very poignant.

Thank you for the compliment.

[drokhole]

74. Room 101 usually does a number on folks.

[struggle4progress]

93. A Typical Day For PFC Bradley Manning at Fort Leavenworth (03 May 2011)

... PFC Manning cell has a large window that provides adequate natural light ... Each pre-trial area (including PFC Manning’s) has four cells, and each pre-trial detainee is assigned to his own cell. The cells are connected to a shared common area, with a table, a treadmill, a television and a shower area ... At 05:15, PFC Manning and all the other pre-trial detainees are escorted by one guard to the cafeteria ... The cafeteria has multiple food selections, as well as a full compliment of coffee, juice, milk and soda ... From 06:00-11:00, PFC Manning is permitted to watch television, sit in the common area, talk to other detainees, use the treadmill, or use the shower ... After they finish lunch at 12:00, the group is brought back to the common area ... At 14:00, PFC Manning and his group are taken to the outdoor recreation area. This area has several basketball courts, a quarter-mile running track, weight machines, and a handball court ... At 16:00, he along with the others, are taken down to the cafeteria for dinner. Immediately after dinner, PFC Manning is permitted to either go to the library or to the indoor recreation area (both of which are outside the common area of his cell quarters). PFC Manning is allowed to remain there until approximately 18:30. He then returns to the common area of his cell quarters, where is permitted to read, watch television, socialize with others, etc ...

http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2011/05/typical-day-for-pfc-bradley-manning-at.html

[freshwest]

105. Yes, he was coerced into apologizing:

[snooper2]

9. how long till the first post saying "the man" must have got to him?

or will folks just try to let this OP, drop, down down the forums of history

[Peacetrain]

12. Looks like

.01 of a second

[snooper2]

14. LOL

I can PREDICT THE FUTURE!

[Peacetrain]

16. .....

[Pretzel_Warrior]

30. accusation has already been made. "They broke him"

or so the Snowdenites and Manningbots would tell you.

[struggle4progress]

10. Bradley Manning Defense Cites Rough Childhood, Gender Disorder

By Serena Marshall
Aug 14, 2013 3:16pm

... Bradley Manning’s sister appeared in military court today to testify that she and her brother’s childhood was characterized by alcoholic parents and neglect, the latest revelations in a day that has focused on intensely personal details of the convicted Army private’s life ...

“Growing up when you are around it all the time, you kind of think it’s normal,” Major said. Major said her mother would start drinking around lunchtime and “it was continuous until she passed out or went to bed.”

Major said it wasn’t until she was about 13-years-old that she realized her parents “had a problem with alcohol” ...

In light of the testimonies today, Manning’s attorneys contend that their client showed clear signs of deteriorating mental health, saying his status should have prevented his commanders from sending him to a war zone to handle classified information ...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/08/bradley-manning-apologizes-for-espionage-defense-cites-rough-childhood-gender-disorder/

[DevonRex]

59. Because the Defense highlighted this we must email Hagel

about safeguarding Manning during his prison term, assuming he's sentenced to more time. They cannot isolate him. So they have to find another way to keep him from becoming a victim. If you know what I mean.

[SunSeeker]

71. He basically blames his actions on not being able to handle being gay.

That just fuels anti-gay stereotypes that gay service members can't be trusted. I wonder if he approved of his defense counsel raising this....

[struggle4progress]

92. It's his own theory and the defense has been pursuing it for some time

You may not be characterizing it accurately

See my #85

[freshwest]

130. I think you're misreading it. Being gay is NOT a gender disorder.

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Gender identity disorder as as the article also cited, gender disaphoria, is nothing about being gay.

I have a transgendered family member and all he went through did not have anything to do with being gay but what his brain told him he should be. And yes, he was tormented, went through hell getting from F>M but he was not mentally ill. Now he's past all of it and is happier than he's ever been.

Nor did anything in the article say anything about his not being able to handle being gay.

The paradox in his mind and his childhood made him unstable. Gay people are no more unstable than straights.

But the paradox of living in a body that does not match what you identify yourself as is destabilizing.

It's just not the same, and to say it will affect gay service members doesn't add up in my mind. The people who would do that would look for anything to use as propaganda.

Gay or straight, or even gender identity disorder - which is not being gay - does not lead to instability by itself, no, not at all. And example to guess how it would if a person woke out of a coma and their body did not match their memory. That would be destabilizing on a very profound level.

The attorney had to find mitigating circumstances to get his client off. It could have been anything, TBI, PTSD or whatever. It's the laundry list that says, 'My client may not have been able to think clearly, take it into consideration.' As far as the defense and his permission, Bradley has said he wants to be called Brianna per an earlier article posted on this story. This young man is pretty clear about himself. (Or shall I say, herself.) And he's been handed an extremely heavy burden to bear in life.

Still, it has nothing to do with being gay and being gay has nothing to do with being mentally ill. I'm not labeling your comment either. I think you misread this and that's okay, I'm just saying that you are wrong on what the article said here.

[SunSeeker]

147. I agree. Being gay is not a gender disorder. That is why I am troubled by his defense's argument.

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:55 AM - Edit history (1)

See struggle4progress' post #13:

Underneath it all, Worsley said, was Manning’s struggle with being gay ...

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-bradley-manning-isolated-ignored-iraq-20130814,0,724180.story

Growing up gay in a homophobic society is a struggle, period. Yet thousands of gay men and lesbians serve their country without resorting to espionage. I wish they had just stuck with "personality disorder" and not blamed it on his having a tough time being gay.

[freshwest]

148. I'm going with what his attorney Coombs called it. Let me look up this Worsely quote. He's wrong.

EDIT:

I'm finding a link from Reply #10 to Worsely with concerns only that before DADT was eliminated, homosexuality was an court martial offense, but nothing other than that; he says gender identity.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/08/bradley-manning-apologizes-for-espionage-defense-cites-rough-childhood-gender-disorder/

And that Bradley took to wearing a dress ad a blonde wig and calling himself Brianna. Which does not prove a link with homosexuality, despite popular culture connections. I'll keep looking. I'm having to read the entire thread to find the comment, I don't see #15 without having it on View All and that means I have to scroll through all the posts.

EDIT:

Okay, with this.

Capt. Michael Worsley characterized the 25-year-old Manning as alone and isolated in his post southeast of Baghdad, and his isolation was all the more aggravated because he was struggling with being gay in a military environment that was “hyper-masculine.”

“He was going it alone, and really felt alone,” Worsley said. “Being in the military and having a gender identity issue does not exactly go hand-in-hand. It further served to isolate him, and at that time the military was not exactly friendly to the gay community or anybody who held views as such. I don’t know that it’s friendly now either.”

I never found Reply #15, LOL!

AFAIK, he's not a defense lawyer nor a pyschologist, etc. He's just an officer with an opinion. A rather confused and misinformed one, but, as I've seen in a number of these links on this thread, it appears officers over him understood he had problems and it was not right for the service to send him to the war zone to begin with.

I know some young people who are fragile emotionally and have been protected by the older soldiers and kept out of harm's way. They still have useful skills. I know one who is vegan and they accommodated his diet in Iraq, also he was willing to be a medic but not to shoot anyone. His wishes were granted.

It's not exactly a gulag for soldiers over there, but we know some have been very abused there, and I know some of them, too. Not to mention what else was going over there in the last decade.

I'm glad we are officially out of there, we should have never been there to begin with, JMHO.

I think we are on the same page, but those who are going to be bigots about gays, if not this to harp upon, they will just outright lie as they've been doing for a long time.

They are going to lose this one, if we keep our Democrats in office and don't let the troglodytes get any further than they have since 2010. It's a race to 2014 and 2016.

[SunSeeker]

149. Worsley is a psychologist. He was called by the defense as their witness.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77027781/

Per that LA Times article, he had counseled Manning. The article also notes:

Worsley was called by the defense to show the deep anxiety the soldier was struggling with as he was leaking hundreds of thousands of secret documents.

[LittleBlue]

11. How much did they torture him

to say that?

[struggle4progress]

18. If he'd been tortured, why wouldn't his lawyer raise the issue?

[PowerToThePeople]

23. ignorance is bliss

At 75,000 posts I am more than sure you are aware of the history here. It appears you have an agenda.

NEW YORK – In a letter sent today to Defense Secretary Robert Gates, the American Civil Liberties Union charged the “gratuitously harsh treatment” to which the Department of Defense is subjecting Pfc. Bradley Manning in military custody is in clear violation of the U.S. Constitution’s prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment and serves no purpose other than to degrade, humiliate and traumatize him.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-calls-military-treatment-accused-wikileaks-supporter-pfc-manning-cruel-and-un


Bradley Manning's treatment was cruel and inhuman, UN torture chief rules
UN special rapporteur on torture's findings likely to reignite criticism of US government's treatment of WikiLeaks suspect

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un

[jberryhill]

26. When did his lawyer raise the issue?

The ACLU is not Bradley Manning's attorney.

[Historic NY]

32. Yawn. ACLU......

I bet they sent lots of letters about every military soldier in custody, NOT!.

They chose Manning for the cause celeb, nothing more and nothing less.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

39. military code is different than you and me as regular old citizens

there are things they must abide by that we haven't necessarily signed on to. Manning should be punished. Why be soft on crime in a place of ultimate conformity where there is an actual good reason for conformity? (Command and control).

[struggle4progress]

13. Psychologist testifies Manning was isolated and ignored in Iraq

By Richard A. Serrano
This post has been corrected. See the note below for details.
August 14, 2013, 8:50 a.m.

FT. MEADE, Md. — A military psychologist testified Wednesday that while he was counseling Army Pfc. Bradley Manning for a gender identity disorder and a series of outbursts in Iraq, he rarely if ever received any input from the soldier’s chain of command even as the intelligence analyst was leaking large amounts of classified U.S. government material to the WikiLeaks organization ...

... Worsley was called by the defense to show the deep anxiety the soldier was struggling with as he was leaking hundreds of thousands of secret documents.

He also provided testimony into how little Manning’s superiors tried to help him, even as he was making repeated outbursts and exhibiting other odd behavior -- all signs Worsley said that Manning should have been removed from Iraq and his security clearance canceled.

Underneath it all, Worsley said, was Manning’s struggle with being gay ...

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-bradley-manning-isolated-ignored-iraq-20130814,0,724180.story

[struggle4progress]

15. Therapists Explore Manning's Idealism

By ADAM KLASFELD
Wednesday, August 14, 2013
Last Update: 2:01 PM PT

FT. MEADE, Md. (CN) - Repeating a diagnosis made famous by the 1995 film "Clueless," a forensic psychiatrist testifying in defense of Pfc. Bradley Manning on Wednesday emphasized that the WikiLeaks source was in a "post-adolescent idealistic phase" ...

... the doctor surmised: "Pfc. Manning was under the impression that his leaked information was really going to change how the world views the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and future wars actually."

This thinking was unavoidable in Manning's "post-adolescent ... little world," Moulton said.

Columbia University professor Paul Appelbaum said in an interview, however, that this theorized psychological phase "is not a generally accepted clinical term in psychiatry" ...

http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/14/60284.htm

[Atman]

19. I struggle2getthroughthisthread

Okay, okay...we get the point!

[struggle4progress]

35. Really? I tried to provide links giving some overview of today's proceedings, but if

it's too much for you to read, here's a summary:

Manning's sister testified about their parent's alcoholism

Captain Michael Worsley and Navy Reserve Captain David Moulton testified

Worsley discussed Manning's gender-identity issues and the lack of help for him

Moulton discussed Manning's idealism as a disorder and pointed out Manning's belief that his releases would change perceptions of the Irag war

Manning's statement was unsworn, so could not be cross-examined

Manning apologized and said he had not expected to do any harm

He asked the rhetorical question "How on earth could I, a junior analyst, believe I could change the world for the better?"

[progressoid]

70. ...heh...

[laundry_queen]

110. LOL!!

uwereinmybrain!

[BenzoDia]

20. I take him at his word.

[freshwest]

50. So do I, and I respect him for these words. I believe he cares deeply about people.

[Historic NY]

25. "Working within the system", would have made him a whistle blower....

which he now admits he wasn't.

[arely staircase]

27. I hope they show mercy. 5 years minus time served.

I bet he gets less than ten. But 3 plus the two he has served would be right. I do think h was a confused kid who fucked up.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

29. Ten years would be about right.

Enough time to think about it long and hard and set an example but not so long he has no life remaining to be lived.

[arely staircase]

61. like I said, I'd go five minus the two served

I don't think ten minus would be too much. but that would be the high end of what he should get. I would like to see the same things you mention, enough to set an example and little enough that he still has not only a life but a good bit of his youth left when he gets out. i wish him well.

[freshwest]

51. +1,000.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

28. THANK YOU FOR LINKING THIS!!! I am happy to see the young man sees he was wrong

and in just what ways he was wrong. Here is another one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/us/manning-apologizes-for-leaks-my-actions-hurt-people.html?smid=fb-nytimes&WT.z_sma=US_MAF_20130814&_r=0

[freshwest]

52. Thanks, that is a very sympathetic article. It appears his army superiors are coming to his aid.

Hoping this from the link comes to pass:

...He said he hoped to some day get out of prison, earn a college degree, have a meaningful relationship with his family and be a productive member of society...

I think he has the ablility to do all of those things with the support he needs.

[Rex]

33. Looks like The Man got to him!

Just to make a certain poster happy.

[struggle4progress]

88. You certainly have an ... um ... inflated view of the power of internet posters!

[Rex]

90. Sorry I don't reply to spam.

nt.

[struggle4progress]

94. Just for you:

[Rex]

95. But I will reply to MP clips!

My one weakness.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

34. KICKED and RECOMMENDED. If this gets 20 recs I'll be surprised

lots of people who would rather see Manning as a hero and freedom fighter.

[Cha]

40. It's not the quantity of who recs it..

it's the quality.

[bahrbearian]

81. So yours doesn't count ?

[Cha]

83. YAY, Bradley Manning!

... "I'm sorry I hurt people. I'm sorry that I hurt the United States," he said. "I'm apologizing for the unexpected results of my actions. The last three years have been a learning experience for me."

Manning says he understood what he was doing and the decisions he made. However, he says he did not believe at the time that leaking the information would cause harm ...

"I should have worked more aggressively within the system. Unfortunately, I can't go back and change things," Manning, wearing his dress uniform and glasses, his hair in a crew cut, said from the witness stand ...

[struggle4progress]

47. The real Manning disappears behind his symbolic value in certain narratives

It took the military 800+ manhours to examine a 2K document sample of the 750K or so documents Manning released: at that rate, it would a team of 50 analysts --- looking at his release 8 hr/da, 5 da/wk, 50 wk/yr --- something like 3 years to get through it all. None of Manning's supporters have put in the time necessary to understand what he released or what it might mean: they typically point to a handful of stories based on the release, then claim that shows he was whistle-blowing. In fact, almost the whole release seems to comprise documents that require too much specialized knowledge, for most of us to make heads or tails of them, though some might be of great interest to a handful of people --- not all of whom are necessarily good guys. I expect that's why this vast trove produced a limited flash-in-the-pan media response and then dropped from view: The Guardian (for example) certainly isn't publishing daily stories on the 250K diplomatic cables anymore, probably because most of the cables would make most people's eyes glaze over, and even Assange hasn't found the actual release interesting enough to put continued energy into studying it

"Supporting" Manning became a cheap and easy surrogate for opposing the obscene size of the US military, or the tragic and unnecessary Iraq war, or the ridiculous DADT policy, or any number of other matters. Sadly, once he's sentenced, most of this "support" will evaporate as people seek other cheap and easy surrogate causes to support in lieu of actually working for reforms

[freshwest]

54. Wow, what you said:

"Supporting" Manning became a cheap and easy surrogate for opposing the obscene size of the US military, or the tragic and unnecessary Iraq war, or the ridiculous DADT policy, or any number of other matters. Sadly, once he's sentenced, most of this "support" will evaporate as people seek other cheap and easy surrogate causes to support in lieu of actually working for reforms

Appreciate that.

[hrmjustin]

36. Personally I hope they show him mercy.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. ...

[Cha]

42. Good! Wow.. someone standing up and willing to pay the price for

their decisions. Quite admirable!

Thanks struggle and for all your reporting on this over the time involved.

[freshwest]

98. Real people do, Cha. We don't have the rich and famous to give us cover. Ditto thnx to s4p.

He's taken a lot of abuse for bringing this up, and his insight and that of others on how these things work has taught me a lot about a part of our world I was never a part of and didn't understand.

[Cha]

99. You're right, fresh. So many personal insults and attacks hurled at s4Progress

on DU regarding his OPs on Bradley Manning!

But, he was invaluble to those he didn't want to see the propaganda.. just the facts.

[Dash87]

43. I'm happy he released the "Collateral Murder" video.

The world needed to see it.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

44. Yep.

Manning ain't Snowden. Not legit to equate the two in my mind, anyway. What Manning revealed needed to be done. He's saying sorry for the obvious reason he wants a lighter sentence. That doesn't at all make what he did wrong in any way shape manner or form.
The judge will, it appears, go along. She hasn't shown a lot of patience with some of the overwrought stuff the gov't tried to hammer him with.
He was military, so some punishment is in order. It will hopefully be the minimum that can be gotten away with.

[stevenleser]

46. The one which Assange admitted actually shows people with weapons including RPGs being fired on

not unarmed civilians?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/apr/14/julian-assange/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-tells-colbert-per/

Host Stephen Colbert called the title "emotional manipulation." He noted that while soldiers in the Apache did mistake cameras with long telephoto lenses slung over the shoulders of the two journalists for weapons, there were, in fact, two other men in the group with weapons.

"How can you call it 'Collateral Murder?' " Colbert asked guest Julian Assange of Wikileaks, referring to the controversial and widely-viewed video.

"So it appears there are possibly two men, one carrying an AK-47 and one carrying a rocket-propelled grenade -- although we're not 100 percent sure of that -- in the crowd," Assange answered. "However, the permission to engage was given before the word RPG was ever used and before the Reuters cameraman, Namir Noor-Eldeen, ever pulled up his camera and went around the corner."

Assange is referring to a moment in the video when a Reuters cameraman peers from behind a wall, pointing a long telephoto lens. A soldier on the Apache yells "He's got an RPG!" According to a military investigation several days later, there were U.S. ground troops less than 100 meters away, and "due to the furtive nature of his movements, the cameraman gave every appearance of preparing to fire an RPG on U.S. soldiers."

It's true that that's the first time the word "RPG" is uttered by the Apache crew in the unedited 40-minute version of the video. And it's also true that the permission to engage was given prior to that.

But that doesn't mean the group of men on the street was believed to be unarmed prior to that, or that U.S. troops were given permission to shoot at a group of what they believed to be unarmed men.

[freshwest]

60. In the stress of a war zone, I suspect those who have hammers see nails. As for the rest of it,

I saw the movie a long time ago and was surprised at the slick production values.

That indicates a fight between the 1% media over who is going to take control of the narrative and not necessarily the truth being told.

Just sayin'

Hoping Manning receives leniency for this. His army superiors and others are coming to his aid. IMO, he was used by those who profited off his misery and that of others. I have no respect for those who used him for their agenda.

Now Manning will be discarded and his words torn to pieces for not falling on his sword for them. He is a real person and is not a tool anymore.

Sound too cynical, Steven?

[stevenleser]

63. I agree generally about hammers/nails, but in this case, they did see nails.

I'd like to see a 25 year sentence and then have President Clinton commute his sentence to time served before leaving office at the end of her second term. That is what would go down in my ideal world.

[freshwest]

73. I'm sure they did see weapons. And did what they did as a matter of course. I found, though, as

I've read Manning did, the celebratory nature of the commentary inappopriate at best and appalling at worst.

There was so much going on over there that is so out of keeping with what we want to be, and IIRC, as MLK said, that America is always in a state of becoming.

It's impossible to not be moved by such events, and hard to not dread and fear the technology our nation possesses and those who use it. But anyway.

I hope you are going to cover this in your show, make your views known on *that* network, and am interested to know if you will be covering this event this month:

"MARCH ON WASHINGTON" AUGUST 24th, 2013

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017136780

I'm betting that MSM does not do this event justice as they did in the past. And I believe it's sorely needed right now to get the public mind off the crazy and onto things that need attention...

[Benton D Struckcheon]

64. Hmm. Thanks Steve.

Had never seen that explanation for the whole thing. Still hope he gets some leniency.

[Dash87]

65. They were body guards. Wasn't that "RPG" a camera?

Then, they proceeded to murder children and their father - good people who were trying to help the wounded - people that did nothing wrong.

Also, don't forget that many of them were immobolized by the first strafing run only to get ruthlessly finished off more cannon rounds - an unarmed, innocent photographer was one of them.

The events in that video cannot be defended. It was pure, heartless murder.

[stevenleser]

66. Both. One of the suspected RPGs was a camera, one was an RPG.Another person in the crowd had an AK47

The actual RPG launcher was loaded. The journalists apparently embedded themselves with some militants. I think they were brave, but I also think if you do that you understand the risks.

The other part of this puzzle is that the section of town they were in had seen very heavy fighting that day. So you have weapons that are only carried by the insurgents carried by a small group of folks in an area of town where there was heavy fighting and then the guy with the camera wields it in such a way that it appears he has an RPG launcher that he is getting ready to fire at US troops nearby.

With the facts, it doesn't appear anything like wrongdoing.

That's why junior people should follow established whistleblowing procedures and have an investigation initiated that can research the facts. What appears to be wrongdoing may not be.

[bahrbearian]

82. Are AK 47's illegal? In the US and Iraq?

[stevenleser]

122. I don't know. Do Iraqi's eat Ravioli? I've wondered that myself. nt

[Dash87]

87. The worst part of the video is the part nobody is addressing-

the attack on the van. That was absolutely inexcusable and unjustified.

[stevenleser]

125. It has been addressed multiple times. See the wiki I referenced in #123

[Dash87]

138. The wiki article doesn't provide justification for the van attack.

In fact, it paints a pretty poor picture. There's no evidence that anyone in the van deserved to get shot at.

[stevenleser]

123. No, there was at least one real RPG that was loaded. Some folks say two.

And the rest of that video is also in dispute.

On Edit: Wiki's article on it is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrike

[PowerToThePeople]

126. It does not matter if they had RPGs

The invasion was illegal. No one should have killed or been killed. Everyone- the dead, their families and friends, and the soldiers of the invading forces are all victims of a massive crime. All this back and forth over rpgs and ak47s is meaningless. The video shows the evil of war. That is all it needed to do.

[stevenleser]

128. If we are going to say facts don't matter, its not much of a conversation. The illegality of the

Iraq war doesn't make that video into a video of wrongdoing.

[PowerToThePeople]

129. For me that video shows the dissasterous effects of the invasion

There was no press coverage of the war that was not "approved by the US military." They stopped allowing pictures of returning caskets. They did not let any information out except approved pro-war propaganda. Manning/Wikileaks WAS the only real source of any information at the time, that I can recall.

[Fire Walk With Me]

45. Check his eyes. Did he blink out the word "torture" using morse code?

http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/vietnam-war/pow-blinks-torture-in-morse-code/1381254901001/

Denton is best known for the 1966 North Vietnamese television interview he was forced to give as a prisoner, in which he ingeniously used the opportunity to communicate to American Intelligence. During the interview Denton blinked his eyes in morse code to spell out the word "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" to communicate that his captors were torturing him and his fellow POWs.

[OnyxCollie]

56. Reminds me of Jose Padilla.

An Inside Look at How U.S. Interrogators Destroyed the Mind of Jose Padilla
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18200.htm

AMY GOODMAN: What was the effect of over three-and-a-half years of isolation on Jose Padilla?

DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: I think there’s two things, really. Number one, his family, more than anything, and his friends, who had a chance to see him by the time I spoke with them, said he was changed. There was something wrong. There was something very “weird” -- was the word one of his siblings used -- something weird about him. There was something not right. He was a different man. And the second thing was his absolute state of terror, terror alternating with numbness, largely. It was as though the interrogators were in the room with us. He was like -- perhaps like a trauma victim who knew that they were going to be sent back to the person who hurt them and that he would, as I said earlier, he would subsequently pay a price if he revealed what happened. So I think those would be the two main things.

Also he had developed, actually, a third thing. He had developed really a tremendous identification with the goals and interests of the government. I really considered a diagnosis of Stockholm syndrome. For example, at one point in the proceedings, his attorneys had, you know, done well at cross-examining an FBI agent, and instead of feeling happy about it like all the other defendants I’ve seen over the years, he was actually very angry with them. He was very angry that the civil proceedings were “unfair to the commander-in-chief,” quote/unquote. And in fact, one of the things that happened that disturbed me particularly was when he saw his mother. He wanted her to contact President Bush to help him, help him out of his dilemma. He expected that the government might help him, if he was “good,” quote/unquote.

[msanthrope]

89. You really want to compare Bradley Manning with a killer like Padilla? Oh--and your expert

was destroyed on cross examination regarding her conclusions as to Padilla's mental state--seems she 'forgot' to tell the court that he showed no signs of PTSD.

On Thursday, Hegarty was challenged on cross-examination with providing an incomplete picture of Padilla's mental state. Federal prosecutor John Shipley noted Padilla scored ''zero'' on Hegarty's post-traumatic stress disorder test and revealed that the New York psychiatrist didn't include that information in her final report.

Hegarty, the first witness to take the stand in the competency hearing, said she looked at a variety of factors to make her diagnosis and apologized for not putting the negative test results in her report.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070225102124/http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/16760156.htm

[DevonRex]

57. This young man is much stronger than he knows.

I don't like what he did. But I have a respect for him that I will never have for the other one.

Bradley Manning did stay. I don't care what anybody says. And many have tried to tell me otherwise. He has faced many challenges in his life because of who he is. I don't pretend to know how that can affect a person, with all the factors involved.

But I do know one thing. He is taking responsibility. He has acknowledged the unintended consequences. And I believe in his case they were unintended. That makes him an honorable man in my book. He will still face prison time. But his head can be held high.

For those who don't realize it, the finding of not guilty on aiding the enemy coupled with his obviously heartfelt statement today will make his sentence a much easier one. That having been said, it is time to email Chuck Hagel about safeguarding Manning since the Defense highlighted his identity issue during sentencing.

[Rex]

97. The difference between him and Snowden is like night and day.

nt.

[midnight]

67. This reminds me of the guy who apologies after dick cheney shots him.....

Since I don't recall of anyone who Bradely Manning hurt, and only a video showing others hurting innocent people...

[Fire Walk With Me]

69. And just like Winston, he loved Big Brother!

[msanthrope]

78. A troubled young person, raised by an alcoholic mother, adrift

in the US Army and struggling with core identity issues. Easy prey for someone like Assange.

[Renew Deal]

79. These statements show Mannings character

Now compare that with the Russian tool

[freshwest]

96. No comparison that I can see. One calls for old people to get off their asses and leave hospitals,

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:31 PM - Edit history (1)

to get off Medicare and Social Security, for those that some call 'whistleblowers' to be shot, supported the war, and has plenty of 1% media love and support.

Manning is one of us, a regular person who knows as we do, that one has to take responsiblity, can't hop a jet and fly around the world looking for the best accommodations. A real whistleblower stays to keep fighting, doesn't have the luxury of shopping for the best gig. There is a real difference there.

Who has media fawned over all these years while this young man paid the price?

Julian Assange and now Edward Snowden. The same media that fawns over the war criminals and promotes division and war to please their owners. Who do they not spend time on, is people like us.

Manning really did care about people, they cared about their fame and fortune as their running buddies show. And they will throw him under the bus now as a coward who only apologized to get a lighter sentence, because he's realized being a martyr for media gadflies is not good enough. He's had to learn and get real.

I wish him the best that he can offered and for his continued recovery and healing from years of terrible stress.

[Bonobo]

100. Why do you hate whistleblowers and what kind of progress RU struggling 4? nt

[struggle4progress]

102. ... Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human

liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress ...

West India Emancipation
Frederick Douglass
Canandaigua NY
3 August 1857

[Bonobo]

103. Nice words.

I'm trying to figure out how your struggle against whistleblowers like Assange, Manning and Snowden fits in.

[struggle4progress]

114. I don't regard those three as whistle-blowers. Assange specialized in mass-dumping of documents

on the web; Manning provided one of those mass dumps. Snowden seems similarly to have indiscriminately grabbed a bunch of documents and then run: his accomplishments include warning some foreign governments about which of their sites were NSA targets and providing various codes to foreign newspapers

[Bonobo]

117. So, for you, a whistleblower should be defined by what they DON'T release, not by what they do?

That's really, really weird.

[struggle4progress]

119. huh?

[Bonobo]

123. Really? That was confusing for you?

OK, here is what you said:

"Assange specialized in mass-dumping of documents

on the web; Manning provided one of those mass dumps. Snowden seems similarly to have indiscriminately grabbed a bunch of documents and then run"

So the implication is that they are not whistleblowers because they did "mass dumping".

Do you understand now?

[struggle4progress]

143. "Here's hundreds of thousands of documents I haven't read" isn't whistle-blowing

How many of the documents that Manning released have you actually read?

[Bonobo]

145. Enough to know that he exposed war crimes.

That is enough to define him as a whistle blower.

But, as I said, your defining him as "not a whistle blower" because he released too much information is bizarre to say the least.

[G_j]

116. oh jeez

no I've heard it all ....

[struggle4progress]

118. Like me or not, you should take Douglass very seriously: not only is he one of the finest

American rhetoricians, of Tom Paine's class, he was also a tireless political observer and activist. Douglass didn't just sit comfortably back and hurl words: everything he says comes from experience. Lounging behind a keyboard doesn't qualify as "struggle" in the sense of Douglass

[G_j]

120. no kidding

so why are you quoting him? I doubt he would share the sadistic glee which seems to ooze from your various comments about Manning.

[AZ Progressive]

107. If everyone cared about what people thought of them, we wouldn't have nearly as many famous people

Many people who have influenced history faced skepticism, criticism, etc... from people around them, and they didn't care about them, because they knew that ultimately it will be the results of their actions that would be remembered.

[DevonRex]

115. Which is why I snickered at you when you attacked me above.

And I snickered again when I read this post. The two posts seem incongruous somehow.

[Paulie]

121. There are FIVE lights

[BeyondGeography]

127. Very moving...he has dealt with incredible hardship, deserves mercy and I hope he receives it

Taking the stand after Manning was his 36-year-old sister, Casey Major, whose emotional testimony painted a picture of the soldier’s troubled upbringing that led him to ultimately become one of the world’s most infamous leakers.

Major described how she would wake up in the middle of the night to feed her infant brother while their parents were passed out from drinking. One night Major had to drive their depressed mother to the emergency room after she took an entire bottle of valium, as Manning sat in the back seat with her to make keep her awake and alive. Every day for the next year one of the two had to be with their mother because she threatened to kill herself if ever left alone.

[Marr]

133. It's creepy to see all the people here who seemed almost sexually aroused by talk of persecuting

Manning (and Snowden) suddenly offer praise.

Very creepy.

[Oakenshield]

146. *snort*

I think accusing people of getting their rocks off over this affair is a bit much. I do agree it is creepy to see the vindictiveness suddenly replaced by feelings of praise and respect.

[Lint Head]

142. No apology for the innocent people killed by the military helicopter.