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Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:26 AM

While You’re Bashing Russia for its Homophobic Laws, Remember…

"A lot of Americans agree with Ol’ Pooty-Poot. You might think we are oh-so-enlightened, but don’t kid yourselves: all too many of us still hates them some LGBT folks. Haters in and out of government."


More at the link, including some truly vile American homophobes:
http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/while-youre-bashing-russia-for-its-homophobic-laws-remember/

78 replies, 5674 views

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Arrow 78 replies Author Time Post
Reply While You’re Bashing Russia for its Homophobic Laws, Remember… (Original post)
riqster Aug 2013 OP
malaise Aug 2013 #1
NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #2
malaise Aug 2013 #47
Deep13 Aug 2013 #4
MADem Aug 2013 #3
Deep13 Aug 2013 #5
MADem Aug 2013 #7
obnoxiousdrunk Aug 2013 #6
riqster Aug 2013 #8
MADem Aug 2013 #14
riqster Aug 2013 #18
RKP5637 Aug 2013 #34
MADem Aug 2013 #45
riqster Aug 2013 #50
MADem Aug 2013 #56
riqster Aug 2013 #59
MADem Aug 2013 #60
riqster Aug 2013 #62
MADem Aug 2013 #64
riqster Aug 2013 #65
MADem Aug 2013 #72
KamaAina Aug 2013 #57
Wilms Aug 2013 #9
MADem Aug 2013 #11
ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #26
MADem Aug 2013 #48
ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #70
MADem Aug 2013 #71
ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #73
MADem Aug 2013 #74
Wilms Aug 2013 #29
MADem Aug 2013 #44
RKP5637 Aug 2013 #35
MADem Aug 2013 #58
RKP5637 Aug 2013 #61
MADem Aug 2013 #63
mockmonkey Aug 2013 #20
MADem Aug 2013 #51
stevenleser Aug 2013 #10
riqster Aug 2013 #12
great white snark Aug 2013 #22
riqster Aug 2013 #24
MNBrewer Aug 2013 #39
stevenleser Aug 2013 #66
riqster Aug 2013 #67
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #13
riqster Aug 2013 #15
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #28
riqster Aug 2013 #31
pampango Aug 2013 #78
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #32
riqster Aug 2013 #36
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #42
riqster Aug 2013 #16
ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #75
n2doc Aug 2013 #17
riqster Aug 2013 #21
n2doc Aug 2013 #25
riqster Aug 2013 #30
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #38
Tien1985 Aug 2013 #19
riqster Aug 2013 #23
truebrit71 Aug 2013 #27
Tien1985 Aug 2013 #33
riqster Aug 2013 #37
LanternWaste Aug 2013 #40
riqster Aug 2013 #41
LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #43
riqster Aug 2013 #46
leftynyc Aug 2013 #49
riqster Aug 2013 #52
clarice Aug 2013 #53
riqster Aug 2013 #54
clarice Aug 2013 #55
former9thward Aug 2013 #68
riqster Aug 2013 #69
ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #76
riqster Aug 2013 #77

Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:30 AM

1. I posted a Happy Independence Day Thread here last week

for Jamaica and a poster put up a link to the horrific attack and murder of a transgendered teenager here. I almost asked whether he would object to me posting a link to the Matthew Shephard murder on a Happy Independence Thread for the USA.

Putin is an asshole but he has many equals and betters in the US.

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:33 AM

2. I missed that thread and reply.

 

I hope it was hidden but I rather doubt it.

Happy Jamaican Independence Day, belatedly, malaise!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:59 PM

47. Truthfully we are all ashamed about that

horrific murder but there is a time and place for everything.

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:37 AM

4. In Russia it is illegal to even talk about gay rights. nt

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:36 AM

3. The worst of "our" assholes can't jail and fine people for the "crime" of being gay.

Pootie can...and he does.

That's the difference.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:37 AM

5. or just talking about gay rights. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:39 AM

7. Yep....no saying "My nephew married his partner" in the wrong crowd over there! nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:38 AM

6. +1

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Response to riqster (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:51 AM

14. They're gonna be rich, too, seeing how Louisiana denied 'em their constitutional rights. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:00 AM

18. Not many people get rich by suing the government

And the fact that they even have to proves that America still has a ways to go in terms of gay rights.

Yes, Russia is awful. And America has made progress. But it is ludicrous to claim that LGBT Americans have achieved 100% equality. Just like African-Americans have not.

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Response to riqster (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:29 AM

34. Yep, it will take years and years in America for LGBT to achieve 100% equality. America

has a fair number of people that love bigotry and racism, they just have to hate. Even if laws provide equality, the hatred will continue by asshole bigots, racists and homophobes. Fortunately, despite that, progress is made, but there are a fair number that are ever so backward.

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Response to riqster (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:53 PM

45. The right lawyer could get them a sweet payday.

It's not so much America having a problem with "gay rights," it's more that Louisiana has a problem with keeping their laws up-to-date with Supreme Court rulings.

The problem is with the nitwits in Louisiana. We, as a nation, are on the right road, getting on the good foot. We're going in the right direction, Russia isn't.

The only one who threw out the "100%" strawman is YOU, you know. So, you put it out there, and you call it ludicrous--fine with that, but no one else said it but you. What's up with that?

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Response to MADem (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:04 PM

50. Since you posted that Americans can't be arrested for being gay,

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:42 PM - Edit history (1)

... and then blew past the proof of your error,forgive me for not taking your posts seriously. Particularly since you continually minimize the very real harm that is caused by these present-day violations of human rights that occur in our own nation.

Maybe they will get rich. After years in court, after which they could be arrested AGAIN for the same conduct. The fact that you see that as exculpatory tells me that you don't understand how bad it still is here for LGBT Americans.

And that, sir, is why I wrote the post.

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Response to riqster (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:35 PM

56. You're the one with the "errors" of fact, sorry to tell you.

Are you seriously telling me, today, that at the time you wrote your post, that you believed Americans were still being arrested in Baton Rouge for being gay? And 'ah, ha!' I'm "wrong" because I don't know this fact that only you seem to know?

That Louisiana story isn't happening this morning, I have to tell you. The problem hit the media LAST MONTH, and was very quickly resolved. It's a done deal. No one is getting arrested in Baton Rouge under those invalid, unconstitutional laws.

A councilman in Baton Rouge declared that the sheriff in that case needed to start apologizing, for starters. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/us-usa-louisiana-sodomy-idUSBRE96S14720130729

And the sheriff, feeling the heat, has done that and is initiating steps to get that INVALID and unconstitutional law (that the AG has said will not be enforced) off the books:
http://theadvocate.com/news/6641204-123/gautreaux-issues-apology-begins-push

He's also working with the LGBT community, AND training his staff.

And the ACLU has stepped in:

http://www.wafb.com/story/22957236/aclu-makes-statement-on-baton-rouge-park-arrests-story

And you do understand what "unconstitutional" means? And "invalid?" You do realize that the Supreme Court has consigned those "invalid" and "unconstitutional" laws to the dust bin, over a decade ago?

You have not made your point. In fact, you've only reinforced MINE. People saw a problem, they saw an invalid law being cited, and they stepped up and stopped it.

There was a problem in Baton Rouge, due to ignorance, bigotry, or both, and good people stepped up, complained and fixed it. QUICK. And no, people can't get arrested years from now for the 'sane' (sic) conduct--the Supreme Court has already ruled on that; there's no turning back.

You don't have a right to your own facts, here--that claim is just not accurate. So forgive me if I apply the same degree of "seriousness" to your posts as you do to mine.

The problem in Russia is that, under their constitution, the laws that can fine someone and throw them in jail for two weeks for speaking of gay people, activities, or events is NOT "unconstitutional" or "invalid" by their standards of law. Over there, they CAN use their law to arrest people for the "crime" of being gay. They CAN use their law to intimidate LGBT people, their families, friends and supporters.

The biggest, bigoted jerk in USA is an insignificant foot-stomper compared to Putin. Putin's laws are enforceable--Baton Rouge's--or any "Lawrence v. Texas" type laws-- are not.

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Response to MADem (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:45 PM

59. Baton Rouge is one town among others.

And the fact that people can be abused at will because of laws that remain on the books, and perhaps receive an apology later makes it all better?

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.

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Response to riqster (Reply #59)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:51 PM

60. Helloooooo? "Lawrence v. Texas" applies from sea to shining sea.

It's obvious that you aren't taking my point, for reasons known only to you. You'll probably want to find someone else to fight with.

This is quickly becoming pointless, since you refuse to take the meanings of the terms invalid, unenforceable, and unconstitutional. Look those words up. Also do a little googling on Lawrence v. Texas, and all should become clear to you.

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, INDEED.....

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Response to MADem (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 02:16 PM

62. What is clear to me is that you are approaching this from a theoretical point of view

I am not.

Your attitude is that yes, people get abused, their constitutional rights violated, reputations sullied, bogus criminal records created, and that is no biggie, because eventually everything will be made all sparkly shiny clean again. So, we don't, according to you, have a problem.

I am fully aware of the relevant Constitutional ruling. But, unlike you, I see the damage and human pain caused by local officials who do not comply with Lawrence. Unlike you, I see the years of consequences unfairly imposed upon innocent people unjustly accused of "criminal" behavior. Unlike you, I do not think an eventual court settlement and apology magically wipes the slate clean.

You can hide behind theoretical constructs. People who get busted for being gay lack the luxury that you possess.

Putin sucks. He sucks worse than we do. That does not make us good-it just makes us not as bad as he is.

Feel free to luxuriate in your sparkly world of rainbow ponies. Meanwhile, the gay Americans who are still persecuted at the local level in spite of Lawrence will deal with reality.

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Response to riqster (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 02:23 PM

64. Now you're playing the "I have the moral high ground" finger wagging scold.

I'm not "hiding" behind anything, I'm not "luxuriating in my sparkly world of rainbow ponies" (wow, that's certainly an image--you worked real hard on that phrase, I'm sure), I am not being theoretical (I'm giving you FACTS, and you're ignoring them) and you know what else?

I'm not going to feed your Outrage Beast anymore. You just need/want someone to beat up on, and it ain't gonna be me.

You go on and have one of those Real Nice Days, now.

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Response to MADem (Reply #64)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 02:30 PM

65. I made a point, and you disagreed in turn.

My point was and is that while Russia sucks with respect to LGBT rights, America sucks too, albeit to a lesser extent.

Anyone who wants to argue against that point should not be surprised if some snark flies their way.

And a very good rainbow pony day to you.

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Response to riqster (Reply #65)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:49 PM

72. I didn't "argue against that point" -- see post 11 (which I wrote WAY before your post 65)

I think I was pretty clear as to my POV. Again, you don't have the right to your own "facts" and you don't have a right to unfairly and deliberately "misinterpret" (that's the kindest word I can come up with) my meaning.

But like I said, you need to fight with someone, and it would appear, based on your words, that you're not shy about being "creative" in order to do that.

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Response to riqster (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:37 PM

57. A friend of two mostly ex-DUers is rotting in prison

 

because he had sex with a man at a party. The other man claimed he'd been raped rather than admit he'd had gay sex. And a red-state jury bought they "gay panic" defense.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:44 AM

9. Not in the last ten years, anyway.

 

But prior to 2003, some fourteen states had anti-gay law on the books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

So yeah. The Putin-bashing has a bit of a hollow ring to it. Like Chucky Schumer crying that Putin is sticking his finger in our eye. No, Chuck. We're already blinded by our superiority complex.

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Response to Wilms (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:49 AM

11. Of course we're not saints from back in the day...but the big difference between us and them is that

we LEARN from our mistakes, and we also learn from the progress that other nations have made on this topic.

We're going forward...Pootie and his hatemongers are going backward.

I don't see a "hollow ring" at all, myself.

No one here claims we've always been right, just that we, as a society, and despite some dumbass neanderthal individuals in our midst, have learned the error of our ways.

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Response to MADem (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:15 AM

26. I see how well the USA is "learning from their mistakes"

 

.
.
.

Ask the Vietnamese

the Koreans,

the Cubans,

the Japanese,

the Iraqis,

the Afghanis,

Pretty sure I missed a dozen or more countries the USA has given grief to . . .

we LEARN from our mistakes

?????

Well, I can't see any evidence of that.

Neither does the World.

CC



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Response to ConcernedCanuk (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:00 PM

48. Everything sucks. America bad, Canada good. Whatever.

Sing a different tune every now and again, why don't you?

After a while, and when it's the only note struck, the "America sucks" theme sounds like a a ham-handed parody, like it's some kind of silly caricature of what the right thinks or HOPES a progressive sounds like.

If we hadn't learned anything, we'd be bombing Iran and invading Syria. Instead, we're in the middle of a military drawdown. Kinda ruins your little strawman, there.

The "Neither Does The World" was a dramatic touch....a bit overloaded, though.

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Response to MADem (Reply #48)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:04 PM

70. Trying to remember when us Canucks last invaded a defenseless country . . .

 

.
.
.



CC

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Response to ConcernedCanuk (Reply #70)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:39 PM

71. Oh, let's see....Iraq? Afghanistan? Canada even played the "Nudge, Wink" in Vietnam

Those that do not know their own history are condemned to be called out on the internet....

Iraq: http://www.globalresearch.ca/canada-s-secret-war-in-iraq/8110

Escorting the US Navy: Thirteen hundred Canadian troops aboard Canada’s multibillion dollar warships escorted the US fleet through the Persian Gulf, putting them safely in place to bomb Iraq.

Leading the coalition Navy: Canadian Rear Admiral Roger Girouard was in charge of the war coalition’s fleet.

Providing war planners: At least two dozen Canadian war planners working at US Central Command in Florida were transferred to the Persian Gulf in early 2003 to help oversee the war’s complicated logistics.

Commanding the war: In 2004, Canadian Brigadier General Walt Natynczyk commanded 10 brigades totalling 35,000 troops. He was Second-in-Command of the entire Iraq War for that year. When Governor General Clarkson gave Natynczyk the Meritorious Service Cross, her office extolled his “pivotal role in the development of numerous plans and operations [which] resulted in a tremendous contribution… to Operation Iraqi Freedom, and… brought great credit to the Canadian Forces and to Canada.”

Helping coordinate the war: Canadian military personnel working aboard American E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System warplanes helped direct the electronic war by providing surveillance, command, control and communications services to US war fighters.


Yep, Canada was one of the most valuable "coalition partners" in that effort--they weren't a "You Forgot Poland"--they were providing warfighting expertise and personnel to the effort. On the down-low, sorta-kinda...so I guess the Canadian Government was a bit shy about touting these details to the citizenry, since this is news to you, but you'll want to go back and ask them about that, I guess.

Afghanistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_role_in_the_Afghanistan_War

Canada's role in the Afghanistan War began in late 2001. Canada sent its first element of Canadian soldiers secretly in October 2001 from Joint Task Force 2,[1] and the first contingents of regular Canadian troops arrived in Afghanistan in January–February 2002. Canada took on a larger role starting in 2006 after the Canadian troops were redeployed to Kandahar province. There were 2,500 Canadian Forces (CF) personnel in Afghanistan in 2006, of which 1,200 comprised the combat battle group.[2] Roughly 950 are currently deployed in Afghanistan as part of International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). At the 2012 NATO Summit in Chicago, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced that an undisclosed number of Canadian soldiers would remain in the country to help train and mentor the Afghan National Army until 2014 (though Canadian troops ended their combat role there in 2011).


Vietnam, and a little plausible deniability: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Vietnam_War

In counter-current to the movement American draft-dodgers and deserters to Canada, about 30,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in southeast Asia.[36] Among the volunteers were fifty Mohawks from the Kahnawake reserve near Montreal.[37] One-hundred and ten (110) Canadians died in Vietnam, and seven remain listed as Missing in Action. Canadian Peter C. Lemon was awarded the U.S. Medal of Honor for his valour in the conflict. (This cross-border enlistment was not unprecedented: Both the First and the Second World War saw thousands of Americans join the Canadian Armed forces before the U.S officially declared war on Germany)[38]

In Windsor, Ontario, there is a privately funded monument to the Canadians killed in the Vietnam War.[39] In Melocheville, Quebec, there is a monument site funded by the Association Québécoise des Vétérans du Vietnam.[40] However, many Canadian veterans returned to a society that was strongly anti-war. Unlike the United States, there were no veterans organizations nor any help for them from the government, and many of them moved permanently to the United States. There has been ongoing pressure from Canadian Vietnam veterans to have their comrades' deaths formally acknowledged by the government, especially in times such as Remembrance Day...

Canada's official diplomatic position in relation to the Vietnam War was that of a non-belligerent, which imposed a ban on the export of war-related items to the combat areas.[citation needed] Nonetheless, Canadian industry was also a major supplier of equipment and supplies to the American forces, not sending these directly to South Vietnam but to the United States. Sold goods included relatively benign items like boots, but also aircraft, munitions, napalm and commercial defoliants, the use of which was fiercely opposed by anti-war protesters at the time. In accordance with the 1958 Defence Production Sharing Agreement, Canadian industry sold $2.47 billion in materiel to the United States between 1965 and 1973.[5] Many of the companies were owned by US parent firms, but all export sales over $100,000 US (and thus, the majority of contracts) were arranged through the Canadian Commercial Corporation, a crown corporation which acted as an intermediary between the U.S. Department of Defence and Canadian industry.[5] Furthermore, the Canadian and American Defense departments worked together to test chemical defoliants for use in Vietnam.[41] Canada also allowed their NATO ally to use Canadian facilities and bases for training exercises and weapons testing as per existing treaties.



So.....whatever. It may not be a full-blown glass house, but it's got more than its share of picture windows. And plenty of "secrecy" too.


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Response to MADem (Reply #71)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:11 PM

73. You don't get it do you? - USA INITIATED those wars/invasions.

 

.
.
.

Canada got dragged in because of treaties and political/financial pressure.

WE DID NOT ATTACK ANYONE, nor did we initiate any wars or invasions.

We were puppets of our bully next door,

sadly, we still are

(sigh)

CC

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Response to ConcernedCanuk (Reply #73)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:25 PM

74. No--YOU don't get it, plainly.

Your argument is actually "They MADE me do it?" and "We're puppets of the bully next door...?"



Don't hold yourselves up to be sanctimoniously superior, morally better, taking the "high ground," and then hide behind that kind of wimpy explanation. It just doesn't cut it.

Really!

You certainly should be sighing, in sheer embarrassment--that was one of the most pathetic excuse-making exercises I've ever seen here on DU.

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Response to MADem (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:19 AM

29. OK. We get a gold star...

 


...for jingoism.

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Response to Wilms (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:48 PM

44. Way to miss the point, but you're determined to be negative, so ... whatever. nt

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Response to Wilms (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:32 AM

35. In KS, for one example, it is still a criminal act to be gay. They kept it on the books. As you

say, often the US is blinded by our superiority complex.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:44 PM

58. There are laws on the books in Georgia that say you have to eat fried chicken with your hand.

There are thousands of invalid, unenforceable and unconstitutional laws on the books, all over the USA.

The only thing that counts is "Lawrence v. Texas." That came out of the (ultimately "superior"--as in highest law in the land) Supreme Court, and that trumps any bigoted law anyone has on the books, or can try to come up with.

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Response to MADem (Reply #58)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 02:02 PM

61. Yes, fortunately they are superseded! I wonder what is going to happen now DOMA was

struck down to ensure equal benefits across the US. Now as, I understand, if one is married in the military they can also collect married benefits. It is so unfair that states can supersede social security benefits for the remaining one of married gays and deny them SS benefits.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 02:18 PM

63. I have a feeling that deny benefits business ain't gonna last.

It calls into question a lot of "reciprocal" agreements between states. If states aren't going to recognize marriages from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, how would they like it if the Commonwealth decided to not recognize marriages from their state?


The military is also giving leave to people who want to marry, but the state where they are stationed won't permit it, so they can go to another state and have a proper wedding with family and friends.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-military-same-sex-20130815,0,6573151.story

In a sign of how quickly society is changing, the Pentagon said Wednesday it would grant special leave to thousands of military personnel in same-sex relationships so they can get married in the 13 states where such unions are legal — making them eligible for the first time for full benefits provided to other military families.

The decision, which the Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously backed, places the military in the forefront of the still-contentious national debate over same-sex unions. It follows the Supreme Court ruling in June to strike down the Defense of Marriage Act, which had said the federal government would recognize marriages only between a man and a woman.

Under the new policy, legally married same-sex couples can qualify for military housing allowances, healthcare, access to base shopping exchanges, extra compensation when a spouse in the military is deployed and unable to live at home, and a wide range of other benefits long available to other military families, the Pentagon said.

"It is now the department's policy to treat all married military personnel equally," Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Wednesday in a memorandum outlining the new policy. He ordered the Defense Department to provide all military spouses and their children the same benefits "regardless of whether they are in same-sex or opposite-sex marriages."



I am very pleased about this, I must say. I worked on the transition team for integrating gays into the military at the DOD level, way back in the nineties. It was an awful lot of work; mostly ensuring that directives were re-drafted to match (what we thought was going to be) the new policy. Then, when Clinton couldn't push it past Congress and the DADT compromise became the fallback position, we had to go do it all over again from the less than optimal perspective, which was a huge disappointment. It's nice to see it finally coming around all these years later; benefits, dependency status, housing, the whole nine yards.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:01 AM

20. Unless

you're in Louisiana. Hard to keep up to date on new laws and such.

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Response to mockmonkey (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:04 PM

51. They'll pay for that mistake. nt

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:45 AM

10. What YOU should remember is that the corner has been turned here, in the right direction.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States

There is much media coverage of and research on public opinion of same-sex marriage in the United States. Most recent polls show majority support for legal recognition of same-sex marriage. Majority public support for same-sex marriage has solidified, and recent polls consistently indicate support above 50%. Support has increased steadily for more than a decade, with supporters first achieving a majority in 2010. An August 2010 CNN poll became the first national poll to show majority support for same-sex marriage, with nearly all subsequent polls showing majority support.


------------------------------------------------------------------
The reality of what we have here is far different than in Russia.

With respect to gay rights, the US resembles what our situation was with African American rights in the mid to late 1960's, while Russia resembles Germany's situation with Jews back in 1935. The reality at that moment was vastly different and the trajectory was vastly different.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:49 AM

12. The battle here is far from won.

Yes, Russia sucks worse than we do. But we still suck.

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Response to riqster (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:05 AM

22. Problem is nobody thinks we are perfect.

You and I don't and Repubs don't because of the good that's been done.

Imperfection should be a given.

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Response to great white snark (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:09 AM

24. Fair enough.

I have been seeing too much "YAY USA" in the past week on this topic. It seems that all too many of us are relaxing, and we have not win this war yet.

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Response to riqster (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:43 AM

39. I haven't seen any such thing.

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Response to riqster (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 03:05 PM

66. Yes, but degree of suckage and trajectory matter. Compare where we are now to where we were

 

in 2004 for instance. Even the Log Cabin Republicans, some of the worst enablers in the history of the fight for equality for any group, refused to endorse the incumbent President of their Party he was so bad on LGBT rights and equality. That's how bad our President was from 2001-2009 on gay rights.

Our federal government is in the middle of dismantling laws that discriminate against the LGBT community. To your point, we still suck. If we didn't I wouldn't bother to spend time on it during my show, but to quote Martin Luther King Jr., from where we are we can see the promised land.

In Russia, all the LGBT community can see is a future of increasing hate and repression. We'll be lucky if we can turn that ship around before widespread killing starts happening.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #66)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 03:12 PM

67. No argument to any of that.

Here's hoping Putin gets a clue in time.

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:50 AM

13. By the OP's logic, the US was wrong to boycott apartheid South Africa because some

 

Americans are racists. The issue in Russia, like in South Africa, is about the actual law, not about the feelings some individuals harbor.
Would you say it was wrong for a nation in which some are racist to criticize another nation's policy of apartheid?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:53 AM

15. That is not what I said.

I said that Russia is horrible, and that we are not perfect.

All the rest of your post is based on projections from your own mind, and are not my responsibility.

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Response to riqster (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:16 AM

28. No, your use of the word 'bashing' to characterize criticism of these Russian laws

 

suggests that you do not see the criticism as valid. That is extrapolation from the language you used.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:26 AM

31. To the extent that you "extrapolated", I feel comfortable in my response to you.

I am responsible for what I say, and only for what I say. You are responsible for what you say.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #28)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:15 PM

78. Well said. n/t

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Response to riqster (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:26 AM

32. By the way, you did not answer my question and you took a personal jab at me

 

for knowing what 'bashing' means.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:33 AM

36. I didn't answer your question because it was based on a bogus extrapolation.

Not much point in answering such.

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Response to riqster (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:59 AM

42. Whatever

 

Your choice of words made your OP seem to mean the oppoiste of what you claim it means. Poorly chosen words on your part. Very poorly chosen.

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:56 AM

16. Here is the blog post in its entirety:

"A lot of Americans agree with Ol’ Pooty-Poot. You might think we are oh-so-enlightened, but don’t kid yourselves: all too many of us still hates them some LGBT folks. Haters in and out of government.

For example, here is an evangelical “Christian” pastor who will soon be tried for crimes against humanity. Said crimes being helping to slaughter untold numbers of gay Ugandans. That, dear reader, is some serious hate.

It’s all over the country: Kenny Coochy in Virginia, unconstitutional arrests for being gay around the nation, to name but a very few.

Yes, Russia deserves the condemnation it is receiving for its outlandish anti-gay pogrom. Open all the cans of whoop-ass you can find upon them. But perhaps you should also save a can or two for the many homophobic idiots here at home, too."

There are embedded hyperlinks at the blog site that support my case.

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Response to riqster (Reply #16)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:57 PM

75. +1!

 

.
.
.



CC

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:57 AM

17. It's not "Bashing" to tell the truth n/t

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Response to n2doc (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:02 AM

21. Actually, I rather like bashing with the truth.

That corrupt KGB shit could use a bit of bashing IMHO. And he deserves it.

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Response to riqster (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:15 AM

25. I just equate "Bashing" as meaning "Unfair attack"

Sorry to misunderstand.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:21 AM

30. No worries. I could have chosen a better word.

Still learning this writing thang.

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Response to riqster (Reply #30)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:41 AM

38. Bashing is a very loaded word, particularly in this context.

 

It is used to describe attacks by homophobes on gay people 'gay bashing'. This is a fairly well known term in common use. Run it through the Google and see what comes out. If you are about the learning.

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:01 AM

19. If Russia had put

Discrimination against Muslims into their laws the way that they have against LGBT people would you feel the same? Since here in the US we have bigots who hate Muslims too?

If a 19 yr old Muslim man was tortured, filmed and murdered for being Muslim while his kidnappers got 3 months and a slap on the wrist--and the IOC had said we will not tolerate protest, peaceful statement/actions that "promote the Muslim perversion" would that leave us no room to stand up because their have been crimes against Muslims in this country?

We are talking about GAMES. Sports. This is more important than human rights? I know what the right thing to do is.

Fuck Putin, fuck the Olympics. I will not play moral relativism over a small group of people who participate in competitive exercise[\b].

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Response to Tien1985 (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:06 AM

23. To me, discrimination is discrimination. Always wrong.

The responses to this thread prove my point: far too many of us are standing with a jingoistic fervor, as if America is somehow a place of perfect equality simply because Russia is far worse than we.

We CANNOT afford to relax on the home front. We MUST continue to fight for the rights of our LGBT brothers and sisters. Because if any of us lack equality, none of us have equality.

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Response to riqster (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:16 AM

27. ^ this

 

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Response to riqster (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:28 AM

33. I appreciate that you

Want to stop discrimination in this country. I think many people who are speaking up can and do speak up about both.

There are several threads daily about discrimination against LGBT people in this country and for the most part, I think many DU do something about it when they can.

That should NOT stop us from speaking up and doing something about Russia when it is in our power to do so.

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Response to Tien1985 (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:38 AM

37. Agreed completely.

I think the Olympics should be moved. For a start. And that the international community should sanction the hell out of Russia as well.

And that we simultaneously deal with inequality here at home, and around the world.

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Response to riqster (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:47 AM

40. I don't think that illustrating the degrees of difference between the two nations, in this context a

 

I don't think that illustrating the relevant degrees of difference between the two nations, in this context at least, is jingoistic.

However, I can certainly understand the bias that would compel a person to conflate the two

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:51 AM

41. Calling out the deltas is not the same as acting like we are done with the fight here. nt

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:41 PM

43. I condemn Bigotry and homophobia anywhere

I condemn it in Russia.
I condemn it in Afghanistan.
I condemn it in Uganda.
I condemn it in Jamaica.
I condemn it here.

Makes no differences to me. St. Petersburg or Chelsa NY. I condemn it.

The law in Russia strips the rights of the LGBTQ Community there to even advocate on their own behalf. Therefore, IT FALLS TO US to advocate on their behalf. Especially given the global attention that is fixing to be focused there.

I hope athletes and spectators from around the world all wear pink triangles and rainbow patches, pins, flags, etc. an all their clothes!
I hope that one day places like the middle east and africa see the errors of their ways and repeals their evil hateful laws.
I hope that Jamaica elects even more politicians that will fight for LGBTQ rights.
I hope that America continues our trend of stamping out homophobic laws and attains marriage equality soon.

This isn't about the country where I just so happened to be born, for no matter the country I am a citizen of earth and all of humanity are my brothers and sisters. I will fight for them anywhere.

Call it what you want, but it this is my sincere belief; and I do not regret it and I wont back down.

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:53 PM

46. +1,000,000 nt

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:02 PM

49. When you put the force of the

 

government behind hateful proclamations, that's when it's a problem.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:06 PM

52. Agreed. In Russia and in America.

And around the world.

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:12 PM

53. I heard on the radio the other day...

 

That the LGBT community hear in Texas is starting a campaign
to send Putin thousands of foot long....let's see...how shall I say this....made of rubber...used for....Ok, I think you get it.

I'l betcha he'll be "pootin" after that.

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Response to clarice (Reply #53)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:18 PM

54. That is a thing of beauty! nt

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Response to riqster (Reply #54)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:20 PM

55. I laughed my ass off in the car when I heard that....

 

Only in Texas.

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 03:17 PM

68. Almost all countries in Africa and the Middle East have harsher anti-gay laws than Russia.

In the Middle East only Israel is gay friendly. Most of Africa it is a death sentence.

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Response to riqster (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:00 PM

76. Homophobes in the US are being marginalized.

Homophobes in Russia are passing legislation.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #76)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:10 PM

77. They are being marginalized, and that is good.

But they still terrorize our fellow citizens and we dare not assume that progress will not be rolled back.

Russia was making some progress in the 90's and early aughts, but has backslid at an alarming rate: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia

We must not relax our vigilance here at home.

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