General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsForever 21 letter to all full time/non-management employees
Time for call and boycott this retailer.
denverbill
(11,489 posts)You work 40 hours a week, you get full benefits. You work 32, you get 4/5. 24 hours, 3/5.
That way companies have no financial incentive to use part-time workers.
In the meantime, until there are no Republicans in Congress that is, a boycott is about all we can do.
Initech
(99,915 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)denverbill
(11,489 posts)If you give companies any incentive to make employees part-time, they will. Maybe not as many if we had universal health care, but some still would.
corkhead
(6,119 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)to not offer anybody any benefits. 4/5 of nothing is still nothing.
Which is what they are doing now anyway, I guess.
I think I would like to see employer provided insurance go away. As it stands now, there are huge inequities in that system.
One incentive for part time is the flexibility to schedule for rush hours.
Suppose you are managing a restaurant and there is a big crowd for lunch and another one for dinner. With part timers you can schedule a whole bunch of people to work from 10-2 without needing to pay people basically for doing nothing from 8-10 and also from 2-4.
Another way to do that though would be with VTO. Voluntary Time Off. Which Citi used to do almost every day, and most people took it.
denverbill
(11,489 posts)At least employers with more than a certain number of employees.
No doubt part time workers are needed in lots of situations. I don't have any problem with hiring part time workers in a situation where the need for employees varies like in restaurants. But I don't see any reason why part-time employees should get less per hour in total compensation than full-time employees.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)The have time to kick all their peeps off their plans but individuals still have to have insurance next year so they will have use the exchanges and pay for their own.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)IMO.
It just brings more people into an already crappy arrangement. And offering 4/5 of a bad insurance policy would still be unaffordable.
Under ACA how much of the premium do employers have to pay? And for which employees?
For example, my employer, bless their heart, covered half the insurance costs for a part-time employee (even one who worked more than 20 hours a week on average). But that still made MY half pretty darn expensive for somebody living on a part-time salary.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)So under ACA, the incentive exists to cut as many workers as you can to below the statutory level for ACA employer mandate - 30 hours.
denverbill
(11,489 posts)If you work part-time, you get compensated proportionately.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)If you work a third of a week, the fine should have been 1/3rd of that for a full-time employee, if half a week, 1/2 of that for a full-time employee, etc.
What we have done with this law is clearly inflicting a great deal of damage upon the most vulnerable.
I don't really blame the companies. I blame the whole thing. We had our options. We could have shifted away from an employer-based system, but we didn't do that. We could have gone to a payroll tax for employees who had to use the exchange to get affordable coverage, but we didn't do that. Instead we pretended to take care of the problem while institutionalizing a two-class employment system, and this is now kicking millions of people in the gonads, and eventually we will all suffer for it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Tying healthcare to employment is insane.
If companies stop offering insurance, and the exchanges work like they are supposed to, I think we're better off. Especially because those exchanges have the most direct route to single-payer.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)except perhaps now with ACA.
During the 1990s and until 2004, I had jobs, sometimes even full time jobs - with no health care. In order to get healthcare with your job, you had to get a GOOD job. Some people got those jobs, others were SOL. I spent the first twenty years of my work life being SOL. Okay, maybe it was only 18 and a half. From the time I quit my good job in November 1986 until I got promoted to full time work in July 2004.
Actually "only" 17.75 years.
I did work full time from February 1993 to January 1995 and that employer may have offered insurance at a cost of $400 a year or something, which, at $5.10 an hour was $400 that I did not want to pay.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The "crappy" full time job I had in 2004-2005 would have required about 90% of my pay to go to their health insurance. So I didn't buy it.
The entire point of the ACA is to create a non-employment-based market for health insurance that functions.....and then have the government take that over when the "single-payer demons" fail to materialize.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)But's it's awesome because (D) passed it!
denverbill
(11,489 posts)But it is better than nothing.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)denverbill
(11,489 posts)progressoid
(49,827 posts)A quick search found a bunch. www.democraticunderground.com/1002613579 http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2299652 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022906853 etc
But most DUers that call it awesome are doing so sarcastically.
brush
(53,475 posts)It's not the fault of ACA.
The next step is to get legislation passed to prevent this crap.
We all know ACA is a stepping stone to single payer. We should also know that the repug-baggers and their paymasters are not going to just roll over without a fight.
And it'll be just as tough a fight as FDR had with all the New Deal legislation of the '30s.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The ACA is step 1. There's a bunch of steps to come.
Social Security is nothing like the original law. It offers far more benefit to far more people.
Medicare is nothing like the original law. It offers far more benefit to far more people.
Guess what's going to happen to the ACA in the future?
And just to answer my question, the exchanges will end up with "government options" in the blue states. Those will be successful enough to create de-facto single-payer in those states. The right has used various boogeymen to scare the public away from single-payer, and once those fail to arrive it will be much, much easier to sell single-payer to the public at large. Which is exactly how Canada got single-payer.
SteveG
(3,109 posts)that makes reducing a person from full time to less than 29 hours the same as laying them off, allowing the worker to go onto unemployment (at the employer's expense).
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)thanks
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Forever 21 is an American chain of clothing retailers with branches in major cities in the Americas, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East that offers clothing and accessories for young women, men, and teen girls.
Sells very cheap clothing, from what I saw on teh web site. ( polyester dresses, etc)
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)It's an unknown unknown...
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)and there will be more. They have a year to do this now after all.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)Amazing that this is the response. Boycott.
winterpark
(168 posts)I'm not sure how many more places I can boycott. I'm already boycotting Disney, Darden restaurants, regal cinemas, anything with angie harmon, fox, walmart to a certain extent and now forever 21.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)Only Costco or high end perhaps? Or boutiques run by owners?
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Then I'd argue you're not really boycotting anything.
winterpark
(168 posts)a partial boycott, it is still significant to my pocketbook. I pay more for groceries shopping at publix than I did at walmart and every week I was laying down at least $100 bucks in groceries and household necessities at walmart. So while you may ridicule me, I believe I am still doing my small part in keeping most of my money out of their store
aggiesal
(8,864 posts)as any other supermarket.
Walmarts' is more insidious.
Pay more at publix, otherwise you're just supporting
Walmarts' business model of putting people on welfare.
winterpark
(168 posts)does not carry my large detergent and softener, etc. And if I were to double up on the small ones at publix, I'd pay 3 times as much. I do what I can. I also support my local farmers market, a local produce market, and buy my meat at a privately owned local market which sources no hormone meats, grass fed beef and lots of organic and regular produce. Like I said. I do what I can when I can and according to what's in my pocket book.
CrispyQ
(36,231 posts)Politics aside, she is such a bad actress!
Glimmer of Hope
(5,823 posts)Especially when you are on the Forbes list of top private companies. Shame on them.
Forever 21
Revenue $3.4 B As of November 2012
[link:http://www.forbes.com/companies/forever-21/|
global1
(25,168 posts)this letter.
One thought - given the unemployment numbers and the many people still out of work - we need to re-designate what constitutes a "full-time employee" to 29.5 hours a week instead of 40 hours a week.
Don't let these corporate criminals get away with this kind of crap.
These people will not be able to afford health coverage and they've only been given 15 days to prepare. If your spouse or SO doesn't work or have alternative coverage - you're just screwed.
Something needs to be done about these types of action by employers. This is why we need 'single payer' government sponsored healthcare - or Medicare for everyone.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)The legislation was flawed from the beginning - there should have always been a provision for the fine for part-time employees. In other words, if the fine for a full-time employee is $2,000, the fine for a part-time employee should have been $1,000.
The companies and ins cos lobbied for this, and they got what they wanted.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)happened to JC Penney and Macy's in the most recent quarter happens to them as well.
Not only are they losing they their healthcare and will have a lower income; what I find disgusting is that there is no single line in the letter along the lines of "We are sorry that we have to do this." The employees are disposed of as if they were cattle.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)MrNJ
(200 posts)As a one time exception they are not stealing the accrued vacation days
*must fight the urge to go and smash their windows*
aggiesal
(8,864 posts)2 weeks vacation per year (accrued throughout the year) and we could roll over
up to 1 year of vacation. So we could have as much as 2 years on the books.
After 5 years of service that went up to 3 weeks.
After 9 years, 4 weeks, and after 14 years 5 weeks.
2 weeks sick time, instantly given on Jan. 1 each year, no matter how much
you used. So it didn't matter if you had 1 hours of sick time on 12/31 or 39 hours
on 12/31, the next day 1/1, your sick hours reset to 40 hours of sick time.
We also got 13 paid holidays. Believe it or not, Good Friday back then was a
holiday. It later changed to Spring Break.
We also got Presidents day off, sometimes 2, because we celebrated both
Washington & Lincoln's birthday.
In the state of California, Vacation is a benefit, but sick time was mandated.
So, companies had to pay you for each vacation hour you earned, and
companies would compete for top talent with better vacation benefits.
Back then, when we reached our 2 year limit, and we accrued hours that
exceeded our 2 year limit, we would not lose those hours, because
they were EARNED.
Instead the company would pay you the equivalent of the hours accrued, from
your vacation account, to free up space to put in the hours that were accrued
into your account.
So, I would never ever lose what I had earned.
**************************************************************
Fast forward to 29 years of Reaganomics, and what do we get?
3 weeks of PERSONAL TIME per year, with a maximum of 2 years on the books.
Now, if you accrue time that exceed your limit, you don't get to keep them.
"The-use-it-or-lose-it" implementation. I don't know how this is legal because
these are benefits that we've earned.
0 Sick weeks because, now sick and vacation time are rolled into Personal Time,
and maybe 10 holidays per year, if the calendar works out.
WELCOME TO REAGANOMICS. Enjoy your stay!
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Printing John 3:16 on all bags
They also use sweat shops, been sued for stealing designs, requiring off the clock work
BuddhaGirl
(3,586 posts)They are already hearing about this shitty move
https://www.facebook.com/Forever21?fref=ts
RockaFowler
(7,429 posts)Lots of great comments on there
Greedy SOB's
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)I left them an earful. Now on to corporate.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)I shared a thought or two.
Julie
BuddhaGirl
(3,586 posts)MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...corporate level chickenshit greed! The only way that I may feel bad for saying that is because I not only have too much respect for chickens, I have too much respect for shit!
PEACE!
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Thanks for posting!
BuddhaGirl
(3,586 posts)and let them know what you think!!!
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)They will just have to buy their own insurance. Companies got a year waiver so they have all of 2014 to dump their healthcare plans.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Change the law, change the behavior.
Sorry - you can boycott all you want, but you're going to end up boycotting everything at that rate.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Most parents won't care, you'll have to convince people to not work for them.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)James 5:4
Hear the cries of the field workers whom you have cheated of their pay. The wages you held back cry out against you.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)ideally suited for direct action. Just sayin'.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)She wasn't going to boycott...she was going to stand outside their store nearest her on public property and hand out copies of their letter during their back-to-school sale. (I'd blow it up and put it on a sandwich board too.) If it encourages 10% of people who were going to shop there to not shop there, that will look bad. If it were replicated nationally with the same result that would be sufficient to cause them to have a [font color="red"]bad 3Q[/font]. If they don't reverse course, doing the same thing during the holidays [font color="red"]blows their fiscal year and will cause institutional investors to drop their stock and analysts to down grade their projections. [/font] A bad holiday and two bad consecutive fiscal quarters is enough for Wall St. analysts to declare you dead in that sector; margins are thin.
That gets CEOs fired while boycotts usually fail. It doesn't require a sustained effort, it just requires a brief intense effort. Cost them sales in the small handful of weeks that matter and you're doing real damage with little sustained effort.
BuddhaGirl
(3,586 posts)but the Market/Powell store is on a public street
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)at any given moment, tourists from across the country and around the world are there, lined up for the cable cars.
Go for it!
edit: If you play your cards right, the cable car operators will clang their bells in solidarity with you. I remember years ago marching up Market chanting "No contra aid! No contra aid!" Then when we got to the turnaround, we heard "Ding ding da-ding! Ding ding da-ding!"
BuddhaGirl
(3,586 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)him?
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)I'm a medicaid worker and I start training next month on the application process for both the HBE's and our expanded Medicaid. These people can apply on October 1 for healthcare, since they are working they will have to buy their own. I doubt they will qualify for subsidies. Some will, many won't.They will purchase insurance from a private insurance company, no worry, we will help them do that and if they haven't done this by 2014 we will take it out of their tax refunds. So, no need to worry.
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)If an individual does not carry insurance coverage and does not have exemptions, thats where a tax penalty could come into play. In 2014, the health law includes a $95 penalty for not carrying health insurance. This penalty is administered by the Internal Revenue Service through the tax return system. In order to collect, the IRS will typically dock that amount from an individuals tax return.
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)What about a person that is out of work for a year or more?
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)dem in texas
(2,672 posts)We are going for our annual back to school shopping trip at Northpark Mall in Dallas. Avery likes to go to the big F21 store, but my dollars will not be spent there anymore. This letter is heart breaking and will create severe hardships on the people who are already having the hardest time getting by. The bad thing about it is so many large chains are doing the same thing. I saw an interview on PBS news of a man who worked for Subway and he was getting cut back to 29 hours and losing his medical insurance. I wish someone would publish the names of all the chains that are doing this, so we, the consumers, can boycott them.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)John Metz' Denny's and Hurricane Grill and Wings (40 in Florida) made a similar announcement and the Dennys CEO quickly announced he did not speak for the parent company.
Olive Garden and Red Lobster saw a 37% decline in business after their announcement. They reversed as a result.
Jimmy Johns already mostly using part time people have stated they will cut hours so as not to be eligible for healthcare.
AAA cut 500 of their employees to half-time.
Hardee's and Carl, Jr. also plan to cut hours.
Pillar Hotels and Resorts has walked back on earlier announcements that they would hire only part-time workers.
Papa John's found out that boycotts are effective. A very vocal opponent of ACA, the loss of business had an effect. ...we have no plans to cut team hours as a result of the Affordable Care Act said their CEO after weeks of petulant threats.
Applebee's changed their mind too. Its the law of the land and were doing exactly what we need to do,
Taco Bell franchises in OKlahoma.
Regal Entertainment Group whose CEO earns $750,000 per year to cut hours.
<snip>But theres currently a bill in the California legislature that could bring such employers to heel. California Assembly Bill 880 would fine large companies (those with 500 or more workers) up to $6,000 for every employee on Medicaid. The law is specifically designed to discourage companies like, say, Regal Entertainment from executing employment policies that force the state to subsidize their low-wage employment strategies. The Los Angeles Times reports that firms would face fines based on 110% of the average cost of health insurance for every employee who is enrolled in Medi-Cal and works more than eight hours a week.<snip>
Guess Walmart will have to stop helping their employees file for medicaid gratis the American taxpayer.
http://www.alternet.org/labor/companies-threaten-cut-hours?page=0%2C0
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)In the case of fashion, your reputation is the only thing that separates you from your competitors who also peddle crap. So once that is gone, it's gone.
Perhaps, if more people see what is happening, single payer can become a reality. I still don't understand why all corps aren't demanding it.
The CCC
(463 posts)Nation wide boycott of Forever 21. Drive them out of business.
nolabear
(41,915 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Wikipedia:
TxDemChem
(1,918 posts)And sure as hell won't now. My boycott list is getting mighty long.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Talk about a way to deeply stab your own company in the gut by pretending it is a good business decision to treat employees like filth... and THEN, to expect women, who especially know the importance of health care, to continue to spend money at that company as customers.
Having the word 'Forever' in their name is ironic for a company doing everything in its power to undo it's own existence.
Contact information:
http://www.forever21.com/CustomerService/CustomerService.aspx?br=f21&content=contact
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)And THEY WORKED in the stores/companies that were doing it. I posted that my company and my friend who is at a phone center was doing this a long time ago. Are you going to boycott a phone center? Are you going to stop going to go to every big box that exists?
We said this would happen. It is happening. We either subsidize the poor people in these horrible situations that lose their full time status or do what California will be doing. It does not hurt to letter write, but this will become epidemic and the law needs to be changed.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)on point
(2,506 posts)Take away this game employers are using
KG
(28,749 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)anyway. Only when the water line of this debacle gets to them will they get it. 2014 will be rife with this.
liberal N proud
(60,302 posts)Many are doing this very thing and just have not had the guts to publish it in writing.
It is going to take a massive worker strike, at every level to wake this country up and stop these oligarchs from abusing their employees.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)They will do whatever helps the bottom line. They never care about the employees. No loyalty to workers but expect full loyalty in return.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)This effectively locks you into being on call for a part-time job. But as many here do not have that experience, this concept is lost on them. "Why not get two jobs?"
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Also, do not be surprised that a "Christian" company is doing this. People who wear religious on their sleeves are ALWAYS full of s**t!
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Gap hires the majority of employees as part-timers. You get a couple of 2-3 hour shifts a day, then they expect you in super early on Sunday's to straighten the stock in the back room (which counts as part of your 2-3 hours a week). Then you're required to buy their clothes without an employee discount (cause only full-timers get that).
AzDon
(1 post)New Here, Hi!
I had a small businessman tell me recently that he'd hafta go out of business because the fines for not insuring his two employees was going to bankrupt him! I did a little research, found this excellent primer on the subject from NFIB and printed it, and gave him a copy. He was so invested in believing that Obamacare would bankrupt him, that he wanted to argue!
Anyway, here's the NFIB explanation of employer penalties:
http://www.nfib.com/portals/0/pdf/allusers/free%20rider%20provision.pdf
The way I read this, If Forever21 has even one employee making less than 400% of poverty that applies for govt premium assistance at the govt exchange and receives it, Forever21 will be fined FOR EACH EMPLOYEE THAT COULD RECEIVE THE SAME ASSISTANCE!
Also, every 120 labor hours/mo constitutes a full time position even if it's split between employees.
It's hard to beleive that a retailer would so boldly send out such a cold-hearted letter expressing willingness to screw their employees using a tactic that probably won't work!
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)SHOULD BE.
AND OUR TAXES SHOULD ALREADY BE ABLE TO PAY FOR SUCH CARE.
OH, I'M SORRY. DID THE PENTAGON JUST SAY SOMETHING?