Lavabit's owner threatened with arrest for shutting down rather than spying on customers

[kpete]

NBC reports that senior US Attorney James Trump sent Lavabit founder Ladar Levison and his lawyer a veiled arrest threat when Levison shut down his private email service (used by NSA leaker James Snowden) rather than comply with a secret order to spy on his customers. Nothing more can be said definitively, because the order to Levison came with a gag order prohibiting Levison from discussing it. Everyone is pretty sure that Levison was served with a National Security Letter.

http://boingboing.net/2013/08/16/lavabits-owner-threatened-wi.html

Levison said he has been "threatened with arrest multiple times over the past six weeks," but that he was making a stand on principle: "I think it's important to point out that what prompted me to shut down my service wasn't access to one person's data. It was about protecting the privacy of all my users."

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/13/20008036-lavabitcom-owner-i-could-be-arrested-for-resisting-surveillance-order?lite

[Rex]

1. Times when you wish an article was from the Onion.

Spy or fry?

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. Talk about Stazi like tactics

That one is right out their playbook.

Almost from the movie 'The lives of others'

[Rex]

13. Worrisome actions for sure.

Like the DHS sending out memos to employees forbidding them to read certain articles. We have our very own KGB now.

[Downwinder]

26. How can you tell that they are ours? Just because we pay them?

[Rex]

73. Then you have a department with no integrity.

No wonder the DHS sucks shit through a straw.

[warrant46]

2. Marching to fascism at record speed

Sir, your papers please !!

[JRLeft]

34. This, is the controllers of the Police State would say. "Nothing must get in our way."

[Autumn]

3. That's some fucked up shit.

[bvar22]

29. I have to agree.

I couldn't find something to say that described my thoughts and feelings about this, but
[font size=3]"That's some fucked up shit"[/font]
does it perfectly.
Thanks!

I will add this:
[font size=3]"We are SO fucked."[/font]






You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[Autumn]

33. I don't think we're going to get out of this.

If a Democratic administration does this, then what hope is there? This one single article scares me more than anything else about this whole fucking mess.

[Enthusiast]

50. The question is,

when will they go FULL NAZI on us? I guess it depends on how much they are challenged.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

— Frank Zappa

[Progressive dog]

61. You realy wrote this "when will they go FULL NAZI on us?"

I thought only t-baggers could stoop that low. Guess not. LOL

[Enthusiast]

65. No need to stoop if you only look around.

Some simply cannot see.

[Progressive dog]

66. Is English your first language?

LOL

[Enthusiast]

67. Personal insults will not change the facts.

No matter how badly you wish they would.

[Progressive dog]

68. Wasn't an insult to question your English when

you don't know what stoop means. BTW "Stoop that low" was intended as a deserved insult to you for trivializing what the NAZIs were.

[Enthusiast]

69. Why would you question me at all?

You just didn't like what I said so your response was to insult me. But I understand, it's what you do.

I didn't trivialize anything. I know full well what the Nazis were. And I know that unless we change course, this nation is headed for a similar outcome.

[Progressive dog]

70. You made the ignorant NAZI comparison

and don't think that you should be questioned. That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[Enthusiast]

71. There was nothing ignorant about the comparison.

Let me guess. Your assignment is to harass me.

[Progressive dog]

72. No your assignment is to call the Democratic administration NAZI

and you are so ignorant that you equate storing pen records with concentration camps and starting world wars.

[Enthusiast]

75. I didn't call them NAZI.

Your goal is to insult me. You distort what I say. Your mission is to cause me distress.

[Progressive dog]

76. Yes you did- a quote from Enthusiast

when will they go FULL NAZI on us?

You even put it in caps. Don't bother apologizing, I don't expect honesty from someone who calls the government Nazi.

[mike_c]

5. these sorts of threats are not about national security any longer....

This is about serving the interests of power, plain and simple.

[woo me with science]

31. [phone]

The scenery is coming down fast now.

[IDemo]

37. The brick wall at the back of the theater has been in plain view for some time now

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” -Frank Zappa

[KoKo]

6. It can't get any more obvious that something is very wrong with our Government. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. We're Listening

[indepat]

7. Big brother simply will not tolerate impudence in the form of failing to aid in the

unconstitutional encroachment of the peoples' liberties.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. This is what happens when you take impeachment off the table -- they no longer fear you.

They should fear us, not the other way around. This is our government, we are not their subjects.

[msongs]

14. to point out the obvious, bush is no longer physically president nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. But when impeachment was taken off the table he was still president.

He skated. Why should any of the rest of them fear us after that?

[questionseverything]

27. yes you are correct

but there is no statue of limitations on war crimes,is there?

[freedom fighter jh]

46. Exactly nt

[Enthusiast]

51. You are right,

of course.

[FiveGoodMen]

18. Many D's also refused to hold the current President to the same standards

that they would have demanded -- if they had any power -- from Bush.

[classykaren]

53. They only fear the Corporations.

[Th1onein]

9. knr

[struggle4progress]

10. If he's actually been told he might be arrested, it's for something other than shutting down:

I might guess obstruction of justice, since IIRC he announced recently he destroyed his servers

[Incitatus]

35. Unless there was a subpoena for information on the servers before he destroyed them,

I don't see how there could be a case.

[branford]

40. A subpoena is not always necessary.

If you know that you might have relevant evidence to either a civil or criminal matter, and you knowingly destroy such evidence, you may be subject to sanction for destruction of evidence.

I obviously do not know all the relevant details, but it sounds like he knowingly destroyed his servers to thwart a government investigation. If so, that would be a clear no-no. Many federal district judges and magistrates "strongly disapprove" of such conduct. I've encountered this a few times in federal civil cases. I imagine criminal matters or issues of national security might incite even greater prosecutorial and judicial ire.

[drhobo]

11. where is the outrage?

Yet another really frightening story about what is being done in the name of security. I'm worried and where is the outrage?

[dotymed]

59. At least

We have a few courageous patriots out of the millions of citizens.....

[KittyWampus]

16. If this is the guy who shut down Snowden's servers he is obstructing justice.

[lark]

22. So, when president Bush spies on us all it's totally awful and unconstitutional.

But when Obama does it, it's totally OK because he's one of us? Really?

[randome]

52. It's not spying when a legal warrant is served.

Or, in this case, a National Security letter with the same force of law.

Yes, there is a difference.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Egalitarian Thug]

56. "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges,

to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." - Anatole France (François-Anatole Thibault)

The average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty--and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies. It is, indeed, only the exceptional man who can even stand it. The average man doesn't want to be free. He simply wants to be safe.

Beware of all politicians at all times, but beware of them most sharply when they talk of reforming and improving the Constitution.

- H. L. Mencken

The argument you keep repeating is as old as the ruling class.

[Maedhros]

64. Kittywampus and Randome don't want to be free. They simply want to be safe. [n/t]

[friendly_iconoclast]

74. Devo also said it well in "Freedom of Choice":

"Freedom of choice
Is what you've got...

Freedom from choice
Is what you want..."

[BobbyBoring]

60. And here lies the problem.

I so sick of hearing wingers bitch about Obamas policies that are really just an extension of Bushs. I heard not a peep from the noise machine when the "Patriot" act came out, suspension of habeus corpus, posse comitus, etc from W.

It can't be OK when our guy does it and bad when theirs does. If you can't chip in 100K or so every other November, you don't have a guy.

[ljm2002]

36. Do you really think that pursuing Edward Snowden...

...is enough to justify the government overreach in this case?

Snowden's messages, like all messages on Lavabit, would have been encrypted and neither the government nor Lavabit would have the key. Therefore any messages the government might have obtained would be useless. Even if the NSA can decrypt using brute force, it would take awhile.

I think, as others have opined, that what the government wanted Lavabit to do was to monitor their users' keystrokes in order to obtain their passwords and/or key phrases. If that is what they wanted, then it makes perfect sense that he had to shut down the service immediately without notifying users. And it is not surprising the government would be furious with him for doing so, so it's not surprising they now want to arrest him.

Of course we don't know for sure what the government asked him to do, because he cannot speak about it to anyone. Parts of it, he cannot even discuss with his own lawyer.

But I guess you're okay with that.

Got any maps for us today?

[Warren Stupidity]

62. They will defend anything done by this administration. Nt.

[iamthebandfanman]

17. Even tho lavabit was a failing business/service

and its owner a joke... (the service was down all the time for 'maintenance'.. sometimes for weeks at a time.. I once witnessed 3 weeks of no service.. and it happened every other month or so)..

its still sad we have gotten to this point when dealing with internet privacy..
I just wish more folks would have been fighting this crap back in 2006, the first time we learned they were spying on emails and phone calls
guess folks will have to start creating their own email software and use their own servers... that way they have an expectation of privacy for sure :p

[niyad]

58. the spying and phone tapping has been going on a LOT longer than that.

[snappyturtle]

19. Intimidation and a warning to the sheeple. nt

[Fuddnik]

20. Mafia tactics.

When the want to muscle in on your business, and you say, "Fuck it. I'll shut down". They give you an offer you can't refuse. Keep it running, and cut us in, or you die.

If they're feeling charitable they make the offer. If not,.......

[mindwalker_i]

21. YOU will bend over

and welcome us with open (and warm) ass-cheeks!

And if you don't, well, that's why we have Gitmo.

[99th_Monkey]

23. The Iron Fist is shredding its own velvet glove.

This is more than a little chilling. Holy Crap.

[warrant46]

41. Iron Fist

[awoke_in_2003]

24. they are out of control...

and no one will stop them

[another_liberal]

28. Oh, I think someone might.

For instance: The Congressmen and Senators whose private communications were recorded by the NSA "accidentallly." You know, when (just before the 2008 elections) the NSA spied on everyone in D.C. instead of Egypt, because of "human error."

[cascadiance]

25. Translated: He was threatened to be kidnapped unless he BROKE THE LAW for them!!!

Put the REAL criminals in prison please!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Ok...then

We live in a free state, nothing to fear...unless you of course deviate from the prescribed curse.

[sabrina 1]

38. Disgusting. Are we willing to acknowledge yet that we have lost any semblance of democracy in this

country?

[cantbeserious]

48. Agreed - Democracy Is Dead

eom

[KoKo]

39. DU "Night Crowd" might have missed this... K&R!

[DeSwiss]

42. If he's not arrested by now.......

...it can only be because Edward Snowden has either threatened these chickenshit mofos that more will be released if they don't back off, or they're concerned that he would.

Why else is he still free? They wouldn't want Mr. Levison's actions to encourage anyone else, now would they? Of course anyone with an average level of intelligence, and who does not generally rely upon theft, lies, brute force, torture and murder to accomplish their primary agency tasks would have thought of this before they tried to put the squeeze on him to begin with.

- So maybe the explanation that makes sense as to why he's still free, is that they can't fuck with him without risking more shit hitting the fan.....

K&R


[center][/center]

[Historic NY]

43. Well he is making money....

"He has also started a legal defense fund and said he's gotten "an overwhelming response," raising more than $90,000 in the past few days. Among those now backing him is former Texas congressman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, who told NBC News on Tuesday that Levison's legal battle "should be in the interests of everybody who cares about liberty."

I'm not sure why he needs a defense fund if he isn't being arrested or prosecuted.

[marble falls]

55. Reading comprehension much?

[SheilaT]

44. What I don't understand is how these gag orders are legal.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[blkmusclmachine]

45. A Burgeoning POLICE STATE

Scared yet?

Cuz we've got a solution for it.[/

[cantbeserious]

47. The US Is Sinking Into Despotism And Fascism

eom

[Enthusiast]

49. This is one a them freedoms they hate us for.

I'm only pointing this out.

[MannyGoldstein]

63. Exactly

Huzzah!

[Agony]

54. Rec #100

from fracking to spying... stop the gagging already!

[niyad]

57. k and r. this certainly is NOT the country our history and civics books lied to us about. how much

further into this cesspool do we have to sink before the sheeples have had enough?