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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:27 PM Aug 2013

N.S.A. Calls Violations of Privacy ‘Minuscule’

N.S.A. Calls Violations of Privacy ‘Minuscule’

By CHARLIE SAVAGE

WASHINGTON — The top National Security Agency official charged with making sure analysts comply with rules protecting the privacy of Americans pushed back on Friday against reports that the N.S.A. had frequently violated privacy rules, after the publication of a leaked internal audit showing that there had been 2,776 such “incidents” in a one-year period...John DeLong, the N.S.A. director of compliance, said that the number of mistakes by the agency was extremely low compared with its overall activities. The report showed about 100 errors by analysts in making queries of databases of already-collected communications data; by comparison, he said, the agency performs about 20 million such queries each month.

Mr. DeLong, speaking to reporters on a conference call, also argued that the overwhelming majority of the violations were unintentional human or technical errors and that the existence of the report showed that the agency’s efforts to detect and correct violations of the rules were robust. He said the number of willful errors was “minuscule,” involving a “couple over the past decade.”

<...>

Mr. DeLong emphasized that the majority of the 2,776 incidents — 1,904 of them, according to the audit — were in a category that did not involve Americans, but rather foreigners abroad whose cellphones were being wiretapped. When they traveled to the United States, where individual warrants are required, the system did not immediately stop recording the calls.

With such “roamers,” he said, the agency would try to detect the change “as soon as we can,” and then stop recording the calls and remove the information from its databases, “such that analysts may never see information collected while that person was in the United States.”

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/us/nsa-calls-violations-of-privacy-minuscule.html


67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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N.S.A. Calls Violations of Privacy ‘Minuscule’ (Original Post) ProSense Aug 2013 OP
Nero: "Fire? What fire?" Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #1
Oh, christ. Now you're a cheerleader for the NSA! burnodo Aug 2013 #2
Actually, I think this earlier OP by ProSense is important, and I rec'd it: Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #4
I recc'ed it too DJ13 Aug 2013 #7
And I just put it on the Greatest Page. n/t cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #34
Debate the facts. If you don't believe the OP report say so. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #12
I just did burnodo Aug 2013 #13
Why didnt you debate the facts of the Greenwald interview in the "Ron Paul channel? David Krout Aug 2013 #26
Sounds like an Onion headline. Bonobo Aug 2013 #3
My first thought... kentuck Aug 2013 #5
Me, too. HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #67
Nothing to see her folks! KarKar Aug 2013 #6
And who are you going to believe? The violators or the whistleblowers? NoOneMan Aug 2013 #8
Misplaced Faith IMHO - I Hope Your Loyalties Serve You Well - Some Are Not Convinced cantbeserious Aug 2013 #9
Silliness. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #17
Yes We Know - All Those That Do Not Agree With You Are Mere Lesser And Silly Mortals cantbeserious Aug 2013 #19
Arrogance pscot Aug 2013 #22
No, it's my opinion. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #23
No, I distrust SnowGlen and Paulianian motives MORE than a distrust the Obama admin uponit7771 Aug 2013 #27
Given All The Failures Of The Obama Admin That Is Surprising - NDAA, Guantanamo, Endless War, NSA .. cantbeserious Aug 2013 #50
You forgot Bengaiz and Fast and Furious.....throw in Birth Certificate there somewhere too uponit7771 Aug 2013 #58
No Prosecution For Bush, Cheney, Wall Street - Shutting Down Occupy ... cantbeserious Aug 2013 #61
...and don't forget Obama had majority dem congress for 12 years and he's from Chicago and shit uponit7771 Aug 2013 #63
It's All Just 12 Dimensional Chess cantbeserious Aug 2013 #65
Did Greenwald, Snowden, or one of the Paul's do this? Do they have anything to do neverforget Aug 2013 #55
No, just lied about what the agencies were doing with digital traffic IE the onslaught uponit7771 Aug 2013 #59
We Will Have To Agree To Disagree cantbeserious Aug 2013 #62
Facts matter, whether we agree or not the facts matter uponit7771 Aug 2013 #64
And Some Do Not Agree With Your Interpretation Of The Facts cantbeserious Aug 2013 #66
And we should totally BELIEVE the NSA when it makes these kinds of claims? right? 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #10
What is the point in posting this? 1awake Aug 2013 #11
What's the point of posting your question? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #14
And there's my answer. Thanks. n/t 1awake Aug 2013 #18
They'll lie to Congress, but not to us. MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #15
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #16
that's a sorry-ass defense of his bigtree Aug 2013 #20
20 million queries? And they are all legal? WTH? dkf Aug 2013 #21
31% is not minuscule. GeorgeGist Aug 2013 #24
20 million per month vs. 2,776 for a one-year period is "31%"? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #25
hey, I see a lot of houses, but I only robbed 2! David Krout Aug 2013 #28
Bizarre analogies aren't relevant. ProSense Aug 2013 #30
And then Nancy Pelosi says your example is "extremely disturbing" David Krout Aug 2013 #35
Why do you keep bringing up Nancy Pelosi? ProSense Aug 2013 #37
You disagree with Pelosi David Krout Aug 2013 #40
I don't have to agree or disagree with her ProSense Aug 2013 #41
So you are undecided on whether the report was extremely disturbing? David Krout Aug 2013 #43
LOL! You do realize that I'm not Nancy Pelosi, don't you? ProSense Aug 2013 #45
You're not Glenn Greenwald either, or Snowden David Krout Aug 2013 #49
"You're not Glenn Greenwald either, or Snowden" ProSense Aug 2013 #51
Exactly. You and I aren't afraid to say whether we agree or disagree with Greenwald or Snowden David Krout Aug 2013 #56
In SnowGlen world the 1 + 1 = 5, the expersion of gov distrust seems coordinated and misplaced uponit7771 Aug 2013 #29
Bull Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #31
Two Words: PROVEN LIARS cali Aug 2013 #32
Don't Worry. Be Happy. n2doc Aug 2013 #33
^^^ rec this limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #44
Fallacious appeal to authority whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #36
No ProSense Aug 2013 #38
A news report offered as whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #39
Well, a news report beats a link to definition and an attempt to deflect. ProSense Aug 2013 #42
The title of the article is misleading. What the NSA said was minuscule pnwmom Aug 2013 #46
How about "least huge"? nt bemildred Aug 2013 #47
Kinda like saying that rapists only rape a miniscule number of women they encounter. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #48
Sometimes I feel like I logged onto a North Korean discussion board by mistake. rug Aug 2013 #52
Why are we looking at the small numbers?? kentuck Aug 2013 #53
So "no spying on Americans" has become Union Scribe Aug 2013 #54
Nope, they weren't Americans at all...Foreigners IN America with roaming signals.. 2000 of them uponit7771 Aug 2013 #60
Here's the math on how miniscule it is: joshcryer Aug 2013 #57
 

burnodo

(2,017 posts)
2. Oh, christ. Now you're a cheerleader for the NSA!
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:29 PM
Aug 2013

I guess I thought you were, at least, a little progressive.

 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
4. Actually, I think this earlier OP by ProSense is important, and I rec'd it:
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:33 PM
Aug 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023473972

I rec'd it because Congress has been gagged and Wyden puts the onus on POTUS to resolve this.
 

David Krout

(423 posts)
26. Why didnt you debate the facts of the Greenwald interview in the "Ron Paul channel?
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 10:29 AM
Aug 2013

Make up your mind. Is discussing facts important?

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
5. My first thought...
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:35 PM
Aug 2013

...was that perhaps its "overall activities" were so large that indeed 2,776 "incidents" were indeed very small. Is that supposed to make it alright?

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
27. No, I distrust SnowGlen and Paulianian motives MORE than a distrust the Obama admin
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 10:29 AM
Aug 2013

...I don't trust people like Glenwald

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
50. Given All The Failures Of The Obama Admin That Is Surprising - NDAA, Guantanamo, Endless War, NSA ..
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:48 PM
Aug 2013

eom

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
58. You forgot Bengaiz and Fast and Furious.....throw in Birth Certificate there somewhere too
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:17 AM
Aug 2013

...you know, make sure to ignore Obama's stimulus keeping the economy out of the crapper

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
63. ...and don't forget Obama had majority dem congress for 12 years and he's from Chicago and shit
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:49 AM
Aug 2013

...so he can do anything he wants why hasn't he stopped the globe from warming with the pipeline!!

:rolleyes::

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
55. Did Greenwald, Snowden, or one of the Paul's do this? Do they have anything to do
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 03:01 PM
Aug 2013

with what the NSA did? Of course not. Saying you don't trust people like Greenwald has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
59. No, just lied about what the agencies were doing with digital traffic IE the onslaught
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:18 AM
Aug 2013

...of stoking articles that make no techinical sense

Taking advantage of peoples lack of computer knowledge

1awake

(1,494 posts)
11. What is the point in posting this?
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:48 PM
Aug 2013

They're opinion I think means exactly nothing to most on EITHER side of this argument. I have left most of your posts alone because over the years I have gained such respect for you. I am at a total loss in understanding your current position and evidently your current mission. Not that you would even know me or what I think should matter. I suppose it is my dilemma and not yours. I wish you well.

Response to ProSense (Original post)

bigtree

(85,987 posts)
20. that's a sorry-ass defense of his
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:00 PM
Aug 2013

. . . kind of slick, too.

I understand why he made that argument. It's all they have. They can't deny the transgressions and are reduced to minimizing them. Is this a surprise to anyone that the NSA would downplay this report?

Do you accept the government explanation at face value, or, is there a rebuttal to this that you'd give the benefit of your doubt?

Personally, I think the government can stand (and deserves) as much cynicism on this issue as we can dish out. That's the type of vigilance which has propelled changes to the way government operates in our regard.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
30. Bizarre analogies aren't relevant.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 10:42 AM
Aug 2013

I mean, if you want to be more accurate...

Hey, I saw 20 million houses, but I only marked the location of 2,800, and then destroyed the map.

That's compliance.

Now, if you were Bush, it would be...

Hey, I saw millions of houses, but I only broke into a few thousand and searched them.

That's breaking the law.

 

David Krout

(423 posts)
35. And then Nancy Pelosi says your example is "extremely disturbing"
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:35 PM
Aug 2013

Which raises the question of which analogy was more bizarre, yours or mine.




You may trash Pelisi now for not "getting it."

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
37. Why do you keep bringing up Nancy Pelosi?
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:47 PM
Aug 2013
And then Nancy Pelosi says your example is "extremely disturbing"

Which raises the question of which analogy was more bizarre, yours or mine.

You may trash Pelisi now for not "getting it."

What does she have to do with the bizarre analogy? As I said to you here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023471576#post9

...my opinion is based on reading the information. Nancy Pelosi's statment isn't a rebuttal to my opinion.

 

David Krout

(423 posts)
40. You disagree with Pelosi
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:53 PM
Aug 2013

But you dont wanna say it. You made up an undisturbing analogy. She found the report extremely disturbing.

Now repeat after me: "I disagree with Nancy Pelosi".

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
41. I don't have to agree or disagree with her
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:58 PM
Aug 2013

Her opinion has nothing to do with my opinion or point.

Apparently, you think it does. Are you expecting me to change my opinion because of Pelosi's statement?

 

David Krout

(423 posts)
49. You're not Glenn Greenwald either, or Snowden
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:25 PM
Aug 2013

Yet you disagree with them often.

Let me help you.

You disagree with Nancy's view that the recent report on NSA non-compliance was "extremely disturbing."

See how easy?

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
51. "You're not Glenn Greenwald either, or Snowden"
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:50 PM
Aug 2013

Yet you agree with them often.

Now that it's established that neither you nor I is Greenwald or Snowden, and I'm not Nancy Pelosi, what's your point?

Testing an illogical theory?

 

David Krout

(423 posts)
56. Exactly. You and I aren't afraid to say whether we agree or disagree with Greenwald or Snowden
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:05 AM
Aug 2013

But you are afraid to say whether you agree with disagree with Pelosi.

See? It has nothing to do with you "being" Pelosi or anyone else.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
29. In SnowGlen world the 1 + 1 = 5, the expersion of gov distrust seems coordinated and misplaced
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 10:35 AM
Aug 2013

...vs the mistrust of the GOP and preventing people from voting.

What good is the 4th without the 15th

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
42. Well, a news report beats a link to definition and an attempt to deflect.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:01 PM
Aug 2013

You can't rebut the report so you label it.

The label doesn't change the information in the report.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
46. The title of the article is misleading. What the NSA said was minuscule
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:11 PM
Aug 2013

was the number of "willful errors" -- " a couple over the last decade."

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
48. Kinda like saying that rapists only rape a miniscule number of women they encounter.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:35 PM
Aug 2013

Or, that drunk drivers only run over a miniscule number of people they see on the street.

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
54. So "no spying on Americans" has become
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 03:00 PM
Aug 2013

"only a little spying on Americans" and "it was an accident I swear."

That water you're carrying looks to be going a bit green.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
60. Nope, they weren't Americans at all...Foreigners IN America with roaming signals.. 2000 of them
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 07:19 AM
Aug 2013

....but that's ok...Its more fun making shit up

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