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Kablooie

(18,619 posts)
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:03 PM Aug 2013

Wow. With all these NSA revelations rolling in Obama's legacy may not be Obamacare.

He may go down in history as the Orwellian Big Brother president who destroyed personal privacy if he's not careful.

Nixon thought he would go down in history as the president that opened up China to the world but it didn't quite work out that way.
Obama is in danger of the same kind of thing.

A serious betrayal of the public trust and Constitutional law could overshadow anything else he accomplishes.
The right hasn't caught on yet that this is becoming Obama's achilles heel but if they do, look out.

He'd better start reconsidering his opinion of Snowden pretty soon because I'm pretty sure that history will.

95 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Wow. With all these NSA revelations rolling in Obama's legacy may not be Obamacare. (Original Post) Kablooie Aug 2013 OP
You're right, Kablooie. Th1onein Aug 2013 #1
"He'd better start reconsidering his opinion of Snowden pretty soon" ProSense Aug 2013 #2
Those on the right would surely love to see this be Obama's legacy... NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #10
How is the 'left' helping to do anything about this? The 'left' didn't choose Clapper, sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #15
That is a RWing talking point, ask them and they have no answer. Rex Aug 2013 #25
well said and so true! bbgrunt Aug 2013 #78
I wish Obama would stop "helping" so much. last1standing Aug 2013 #61
He does not need our help. He is doing a great job of messing this up on his own. Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #83
They can't help it. It's an obsession or maybe possession? Fringe Aug 2013 #94
If he tries to cover up the spying and doesn't do anything to correct it, it might. Kablooie Aug 2013 #21
it will have a much bigger impact than you think nebenaube Aug 2013 #37
Those actions which took place under his presidency will actually. Fearless Aug 2013 #68
Indeed? Savannahmann Aug 2013 #76
Excellent post Aerows Aug 2013 #84
Exactly. Fringe Aug 2013 #91
This WILL be his legacy, 1awake Aug 2013 #3
He has a narrowing window to claim these were left over programs from Bush DJ13 Aug 2013 #4
Only in a reality-deprived bubble. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #5
It depends on his responses to the ongoing NSA revelations. Kablooie Aug 2013 #22
for fudr yes, without 15th the 4th is useless uponit7771 Aug 2013 #66
A couple of points.. Fumesucker Aug 2013 #6
+ a brazillion! FirstLight Aug 2013 #33
history is written by those who win. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #79
Here's how I see it so far: ucrdem Aug 2013 #7
Reality said to say hi LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #12
Recommended for a DUzy award DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #16
Damn, you beat me to it. tavalon Aug 2013 #35
I like my side of the pond I guess. . . ucrdem Aug 2013 #19
Reality called back and said the original call was for you. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #31
Wow, you need to try again LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #93
Duzy! n/t Aerows Aug 2013 #86
Transparency as clear as a mudbath... uh huh. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #26
How many E.O. 12333 quarterly compliance audits did the Bush-Cheney NSA conduct, ucrdem Aug 2013 #30
Transparency... leak. Transparency... leak. Transparency... leak. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #34
The point is that the "leaks" keep showing the thing running according to specifications. ucrdem Aug 2013 #36
Due diligence!? tavalon Aug 2013 #40
I laughed myself when I saw the report. ucrdem Aug 2013 #44
Yeah, funny that, eh? tavalon Aug 2013 #38
The only fix is to stop. nebenaube Aug 2013 #41
I don't have a problem with that. ucrdem Aug 2013 #46
Holy crap! SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #56
FUCK FACTS!! uponit7771 Aug 2013 #67
Or he could fix it. progressoid Aug 2013 #8
OR he could turn it into a campaign issue in the midterm.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #62
I think that's why we're seeing the President doing stupid things and losing his famous cool Hydra Aug 2013 #9
I could not agree more with you. MuseRider Aug 2013 #13
Instead of focussing on catching Snowden he'd better start controlling this damn NSA. Kablooie Aug 2013 #23
Agree 100% truebluegreen Aug 2013 #11
This place has almost lost its collective mind. JaneyVee Aug 2013 #14
If you don't think these ongoing stories are hurting Obama, you're not seeing things clearly. n/t DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #17
It's funny because Obamacare was going to be his legacy before this, and ProSense Aug 2013 #18
LOL SunSeeker Aug 2013 #59
Nope, sorry Hydra Aug 2013 #20
The best thing about this place is we never had a collective or hive mind tavalon Aug 2013 #43
You wish. Poor little things. Cha Aug 2013 #24
Oh bullshit. Zoeisright Aug 2013 #27
Thanks for putting THAT picture in my head! Just Saying Aug 2013 #32
I do not wring my pantry. All the cans would fall on the floor. Kablooie Aug 2013 #39
LOL nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #85
His legacy... Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #28
The Founders did NOT contemplate a president maintaining a "kill list" in absence of declared war! Divernan Aug 2013 #50
I don't think ANYONE has contemplated an American President... Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #55
Nonsense. Nixon made his own problems, Obama inherited a disaster. Dawson Leery Aug 2013 #29
He needs to fix it, yes. That's the solution. I hope he does. Kablooie Aug 2013 #42
And at this point in time he is embracing it. nebenaube Aug 2013 #45
The clock is ticking. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2013 #77
Oh please. If the RW could impeach with this, it'd be done before you could say CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #47
welcome to iggy land. nebenaube Aug 2013 #48
Another one, eh? CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #71
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and I join you Divernan Aug 2013 #73
His Legacy? mick063 Aug 2013 #49
... SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #57
It ain't over by a long-shot. DeSwiss Aug 2013 #51
It's just starting, but he better get a grip on this fast. One way or another. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #52
I know it's hard to tell if you're a regular here, Just Saying Aug 2013 #53
Just wait until someone's sexy emails are released. Kablooie Aug 2013 #63
Exactly, the most I've see anybody talk about/ obsess about it is here on du. Fringe Aug 2013 #95
A president can have a legacy with multiple aspects. quakerboy Aug 2013 #54
Uh, Obama is no FDR. He has quite a small group of items as legacy choices. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #58
Obama is better, Obama never had a 83% dem congress at any time like FDR... uponit7771 Aug 2013 #70
What's a fudr? Aerows Aug 2013 #87
Truth told quakerboy Aug 2013 #88
Too true. LBJ had The Great Society. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #69
Actually, Nixon wanted to be remembered for battling cancer. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #60
Obama must be aware creeksneakers2 Aug 2013 #64
FDR ThoughtCriminal Aug 2013 #65
The only reason he is remembered at all is because Obama brought him up in so many speeches liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #72
I'd wager most adults ThoughtCriminal Aug 2013 #74
The NSA hopes that you are right. And I'll bet that if you asked high school seniors ... spin Aug 2013 #80
If Truman had expanded, rationalized and defended the internment camps... lumberjack_jeff Aug 2013 #75
He has rolled back NSA since Bush. Bush was engaging in warrantless wiretapping pnwmom Aug 2013 #81
Some people are fuck sticks Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #82
This tread needs more... NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #89
I think Obama will go down in history as a Fringe Aug 2013 #90
The "Right" is hard at work trying to entrap Obama on this issue. Snowden is their main operative Coyotl Aug 2013 #92

Th1onein

(8,514 posts)
1. You're right, Kablooie.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:08 PM
Aug 2013

This story has the legs of a millipede. It AIN'T going away. Americans are not going to put up with being spied on. And Obama is in danger of having this as his legacy, instead of Obamacare. What a shame.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
2. "He'd better start reconsidering his opinion of Snowden pretty soon"
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:09 PM
Aug 2013

This NSA incident is not going to remotely be "Obama's legacy."

Not remotely.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
10. Those on the right would surely love to see this be Obama's legacy...
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:30 PM
Aug 2013

...I wish the left would stop "helping" so much.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
15. How is the 'left' helping to do anything about this? The 'left' didn't choose Clapper,
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:37 PM
Aug 2013

first to be the Director of Intelligence. This leftie would have chosen a Democrat eg. The 'left' didn't appoint Clapper to oversee the choosing of the 'Independent' committee to begin looking into all of this.

This leftie would have chosen Ron Wyden or some other Democrat.

It's getting ridiculous to try to keep blaming other people for decisions this President makes.

Do YOU agree with all the Republicans he has placed in positions of power in his Cabinet? If we wanted Republicans in positions of power, we would have voted for them. We didn't.

This leftie would have chosen a Democrat for SOD eg. I have faith that we have Democrats who could fill these rolls.

Right wingers have pointed out to me that this President 'knows that Democrats can't take care of our Security so even he has to turn to Republicans'. Do you know how it feels to have fought agaisnt this meme for over a decade and then have to try to defend these decisions?

I don't defend them anymore, because I can't.

WE are being undermined, not the President.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
25. That is a RWing talking point, ask them and they have no answer.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:22 PM
Aug 2013

Blaming the Left has kept them in a cozy state of denial for years...must suck coming to some simple conclusions you don't want to discuss on a discussion board. Let them knee jerk. That is all that is left.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
61. I wish Obama would stop "helping" so much.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:51 AM
Aug 2013

It's a lazy argument to blame the messenger instead of the culprit.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
83. He does not need our help. He is doing a great job of messing this up on his own.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:30 AM
Aug 2013

I have been a huge supporter of this President. I was sure he was going to go left after this last election esp after the campaign. I have given up on him now. I still can't believe he sent McCain and LG to Egypt. Good grief, we have plenty of great Dems who should have been sent. That is one of a hundred odd and disappointing things he has done. He could have been the best President this country has ever had. He really could have been.

Fringe

(175 posts)
94. They can't help it. It's an obsession or maybe possession?
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:44 AM
Aug 2013

24/7 Obama hate. I can even imagine their heads spinning around while they type.

Kablooie

(18,619 posts)
21. If he tries to cover up the spying and doesn't do anything to correct it, it might.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:48 PM
Aug 2013

So far he has given the impression that he is complicit in the illegal spying.
He may not be but his actions so far have done nothing to correct that impression.

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
68. Those actions which took place under his presidency will actually.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:01 AM
Aug 2013

And those that didn't will not.

That's how these things work.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
76. Indeed?
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:48 PM
Aug 2013

How can you make such a statement with a straight face? Every ten days or so another revelation comes out from the plethora of documents that Snowden gave to the reporters. We couldn't get lucky enough for Greenwald to hold the remainder for a book as was mentioned before. At least then the revelations would come all at once, and only one or two would be significantly outrageous enough to garner attention, the rest lost in the flood of data.

President Obama's popularity continues to decline, and eventually he's going to be left with the core groups of the Democratic Party. But one of those groups is people like myself who continue to believe that Civil Rights is an important issue. How long before we can no longer honestly answer that we approve of President Obama's actions when we are polled? More and more of us are.

What do we do if Republicans get more stature in the Senate and hold onto the House? Do you realize that the Republicans need only take six more Senate seats to control that chamber? Then all the tea party cuts to Government will be the choice of President Obama. Sign them, or shut the Government down. How much will he have to sacrifice to keep what he can't afford to lose?

Then you'll have Rand Paul on the hunt for the Oval Office, playing up the NSA spying all the time, demanding that information that is being withheld, be released. He may even release some himself on the floor of the Senate, where the Constitution says he has the right to debate it. Oh sure, we can piss and moan about his violating security, but other than that we would be left with another pile of crap to chew on.

I don't think you realize that this is the most dangerous time our party has faced since Ronald Reagan. At least with President Clinton's scandal, we had the argument that everyone would lie about cheating. We can't say that everyone would read and listen communications if they could. If anyone else did it they would go to jail for wiretapping.

ProSense, we have to decide what is good for our party long term. Holding onto the millstone of NSA spying as it drags us to the depths of disaster is not a good policy. Let the jackass Republicans argue we need to spy on the American People, we need to come out in favor of and as the staunchest defenders of Human Rights that the nation has ever seen. If we continue to join with the same jackass Republicans we say are wrong on every other issue, holding hands and linking arms with them for the authority to spy on Americans, how do we extricate ourselves when even the most determined defenders of the party realize it is a bad idea? How do we run against them in fifteen months when all we can offer as a party is that we totally agree with them on NSA spying, we just think they're assholes on other issues?

Think it through. Not just what excuses we're going to have to use today, or tomorrow, but where we'll be in a year praying that we don't lose the Senate. Because if we are very smart, and a little lucky, we might be able to. Holding onto this millstone? We're going to lose it to the Paulites in the Rethug party.

1awake

(1,494 posts)
3. This WILL be his legacy,
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:11 PM
Aug 2013

depending on which road he chooses to walk will determine which way he is remembered.

DJ13

(23,671 posts)
4. He has a narrowing window to claim these were left over programs from Bush
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:13 PM
Aug 2013

And attempt to make headway in ending many of them, but the longer he waivers and misstates the reach of the programs the more they become his programs.

And his legacy will be damaged.

He has to start being upfront with people, though a part of me thinks these programs now have too much importance to the elites, so he may not be allowed to deal with them in any meaningful way.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. Only in a reality-deprived bubble.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:17 PM
Aug 2013

Obamacare will always be the bigger story. It's a much bigger story today, and affects many million more lives.

Kablooie

(18,619 posts)
22. It depends on his responses to the ongoing NSA revelations.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:51 PM
Aug 2013

If he is seen as being supportive of illegal spying it could overshadow everything else, especially if the GOP decides it will be a win for them.
That's why I hope he takes control of the situation instead of simply denying it exists.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
6. A couple of points..
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:18 PM
Aug 2013

First; How will anyone know? If the Orwellian state gets to the point of a Memory Hole that's the end of history, Obama will have the legacy he chooses.

Second; The right will have a hard time attacking Obama on this because a lot of them are too wrapped up in fapping off to fevered dreams of total and universal surveillance. Oh, they'll make a pro-forma attack or thirty but their hearts won't be in it.



ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
7. Here's how I see it so far:
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:23 PM
Aug 2013

In 4-1/2 years Obama completely transformed the US intel landscape -- for the better. Where once there was opacity and silence there is now transparency and determination to keep fixing problems until everything is all straightened out.

How many internal compliance audits "leaked" out of the Bushler NSA, for example? Do you think they ever bothered to conduct one? Or to answer FOIA requests for incident reports naming Noam Chomsky?

It's a whole new world and Snowball doesn't like it. Neither did Manning. So under bad advice they both thought they'd drop a dime on Obama and bring down the house. Unsurprisingly, they both failed.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
35. Damn, you beat me to it.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:47 PM
Aug 2013

We're all entitled to our own opinions. Facts, OTOH, are facts and we don't get to change them any more than the Bush Maladministration did.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
30. How many E.O. 12333 quarterly compliance audits did the Bush-Cheney NSA conduct,
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:28 PM
Aug 2013

let alone leak? Come on. We weren't even allowed to discuss the NSA publicly and now it's the subject of afternoon chat shows.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
34. Transparency... leak. Transparency... leak. Transparency... leak.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:40 PM
Aug 2013

Do those two really go together? I've tried and tried and can't for the life of me make them fit together.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
36. The point is that the "leaks" keep showing the thing running according to specifications.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:49 PM
Aug 2013

Maybe we should change the specs but it is what it is, and the infractions are minor and recorded with reassuring due diligence.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
38. Yeah, funny that, eh?
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:51 PM
Aug 2013

It's not transparent if it requires whistleblowers and well, it clearly does, ergo, not transparent. But I'm speaking to the choir here. Sheesh.

On the plus side, so many of our fellow DUers are getting so flexible with all of these pretzel stances they've been practicing. Yoga masters they are. Illogical, but bendy.

 

nebenaube

(3,496 posts)
41. The only fix is to stop.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:53 PM
Aug 2013

There are no terrorists, just a list of burned cia assets. You know, the same crew that flooded this country with crack, opium, heroin, weed and hash during the Soviet-Afgani war so they could buy weapons to fight the soviets.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
46. I don't have a problem with that.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:58 PM
Aug 2013

JFK said as much in 1963 and no one has said it better. Nevertheless, the prospect of dismantling the US security apparatus is challenging, to say the least.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
62. OR he could turn it into a campaign issue in the midterm....
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:54 AM
Aug 2013

The Libertarian wing of their party isn't as strong as the Right to Privacy wing of ours.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
9. I think that's why we're seeing the President doing stupid things and losing his famous cool
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:29 PM
Aug 2013

Like trying to bully/beg Putin for Snowden or these ridiculous defenses of the NSA.

I really don't get why he thought his legacy/image was more important than doing the work we elected him to do- the dismantling of Bushco. The fact that he was even thinking about it should have been a warning sign.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
18. It's funny because Obamacare was going to be his legacy before this, and
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:43 PM
Aug 2013

that was supposed to be a bad thing.



Hydra

(14,459 posts)
20. Nope, sorry
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:46 PM
Aug 2013

The White House has. I have no idea why they thought following the policies of the worst President ever(unelected, too) would lead to this President having a legacy of...a new Lincoln?

Why are they even talking with a straight face about the Legacy of someone who hadn't even gotten into office yet? We had a HUGE mess after Bushco, and his biggest fear is not that he can't get it all done...he's worried about his 3 lines in the history books?

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
43. The best thing about this place is we never had a collective or hive mind
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:54 PM
Aug 2013

It's damn messy that way but much better than lockstep.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
28. His legacy...
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:27 PM
Aug 2013

Will be insurance mandates and corporatist corruption, and the largest and most terrifying expansion of post-constitutional power in American history.

Remember, this is not only the President who has claimed the right and power to spy on Americans...

He has also claimed the power to KILL them.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
50. The Founders did NOT contemplate a president maintaining a "kill list" in absence of declared war!
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:10 AM
Aug 2013
The history of war powers is complex and fraught with differing interpretations from the beginning. Still, it is difficult to picture any of the Founders contemplating a president who would maintain a “kill list” in the absence of a declared war. This is part of what John Marshall, later to become chief justice, said in support of ratifying the Constitution: “Shall it be a maxim that a man shall be deprived of his life without the benefit of law? Shall such a deprivation of life be justified by answering that a man’s life was not taken secundem artem, because he was a bad man?”


"The next presidential election is crucial because the next president will determine the kind of Supreme Court we have. Candidates who are on record as supporting the Patriot Act, the prison at Guantanamo Bay and the National Security Agency’s warrantless surveillance of domestic electronic communications should be summarily dismissed from consideration. Unfortunately, the only likely candidate who has stepped forward so far and supported the common-sense constitutional view of these things is Rand Paul. Paul is a Libertarian, and that is a dangerous form of political lunacy. Paul’s view of the matter does, though, serve to illustrate a very important point: if ever there was a nonpartisan, purely American issue on which left and right could agree, this is surely it."

http://www.clydefitchreport.com/2013/08/need-a-constitution-were-not-using-this-one/
 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
55. I don't think ANYONE has contemplated an American President...
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:30 AM
Aug 2013

Maintaining a secret "Kill List" of other Americans.

Americans he has decided must be killed without legal process. It is unprecedented so far as I know.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
29. Nonsense. Nixon made his own problems, Obama inherited a disaster.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:27 PM
Aug 2013

Obama needs to fix these problems. Richard Blumenthal and Pat Leahy have offered the first part.

 

nebenaube

(3,496 posts)
45. And at this point in time he is embracing it.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:57 PM
Aug 2013

I would vote to impeach a republican for this. He has to power to fix this. But he trembles.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
77. The clock is ticking.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:49 PM
Aug 2013

We're pushing 6 years in.

Obama signed an extension of the patriot act in 2011.

A few years ago, it should have become apparent to even casual observers that he's delivering what he wants to deliver.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
47. Oh please. If the RW could impeach with this, it'd be done before you could say
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:00 AM
Aug 2013

Snowden.

Only in this bubble of group-reinforced doom over the ever-overreaching "surveillance state" is this a looming disaster for the President.

In the real world, people are trying to get/hold onto healthcare to save theirs or their loved ones' lives.

People are trying to afford college.

Others are trying not to be profiled by "stop and frisk" or by this REAL totalitarian overreach of having to be fingerprinted to live in a housing complex.

Freaking out that the government COULD/MAYBE/MIGHT have the potential to read your e-mails (without actual proof that they're DOING it)? Maybe not the biggest worry for a lot of people.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
71. Another one, eh?
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:33 AM
Aug 2013

Translation: Your disagreement freaks me out so much, I can't bear to see your screen handle anymore!

What was that someone said above about this place losing its collective mind? Little by little each day!

 

mick063

(2,424 posts)
49. His Legacy?
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:07 AM
Aug 2013

Cripes, it was damaged goods before this shit hit the fan.

Chained CPI
Too big to prosecute
Crackdown on marijuana in otherwise state legal dispensaries
Corporate Cabinet
TPP behind everyone's back with corporations writing the law.


Too late to "save" his legacy. It is shot all to hell. A footnote in history. A James Buchanon. A Millard Fillmore.



Possibly a Richard Nixon.



Just Saying

(1,799 posts)
53. I know it's hard to tell if you're a regular here,
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:17 AM
Aug 2013

But most Americans aren't all that concerned about this and will forget it quickly because it doesn't involve sex.

Fringe

(175 posts)
95. Exactly, the most I've see anybody talk about/ obsess about it is here on du.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:53 AM
Aug 2013

Even the republican Obama haters where I work have never ever talked about it. They talk about Obama care plenty.

quakerboy

(13,918 posts)
54. A president can have a legacy with multiple aspects.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:18 AM
Aug 2013

FDR had the new deal.

He also had the Japanese American Internment camps.

uponit7771

(90,323 posts)
70. Obama is better, Obama never had a 83% dem congress at any time like FDR...
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:04 AM
Aug 2013

...but of course fudr, winger and hand ringers could care less

quakerboy

(13,918 posts)
88. Truth told
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:54 AM
Aug 2013

No human is a clone of another. till we get cloning up and running, anyway. But even then, environment will mean that each of us is still individual. So of course Obama is not FDR.

And my point remains. A presidents legacy can have multiple aspects. Assuming our country survives, I believe his basic inaction in slowing the war/spying machine will be remembered as shameful. Assuming that the ACA law survives the next presidency, and the one after that, and is eventually upgraded and problems start to be resolved, that may well become a much larger story.

But the future is the future. Maybe his legacy, the things we tell our kids about won't be even in the ballpark of these things. Or maybe history will pass him by as a foot note. I kind of suspect that will be the legacy of Clinton or the first Bush.. in a few decades, I suspect either one will barely rate a mention in the history books. And I dont see Obama Policy as diverging much from either of theirs.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
69. Too true. LBJ had The Great Society.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:01 AM
Aug 2013

He also lied us into the Vietnam War with The Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

He even joked about it years later, saying the Navy was shooting at whales for all he knew.

creeksneakers2

(7,473 posts)
64. Obama must be aware
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:02 AM
Aug 2013

of what the NSA issue has done to his popularity and will likely do to his legacy. He must truly believe in the program to spend this much capital defending it. He knows more about it than you.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
65. FDR
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:36 AM
Aug 2013

Was his legacy Japanese-American internment camps, or the New Deal?

The former has been recognized as a mistake by almost everyone, but no question, he is remembered most for Social Security.



liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
72. The only reason he is remembered at all is because Obama brought him up in so many speeches
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:39 AM
Aug 2013

about how he wanted to do big things such as infrastructure like FDR did. Do you think most of our kids know who FDR is? Most adults can only sputter out one or two facts about the man.

spin

(17,493 posts)
80. The NSA hopes that you are right. And I'll bet that if you asked high school seniors ...
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:09 PM
Aug 2013

Which President signed the Social Security Act?

a) Abraham Lincoln
b) George Washington
c) Woodrow Wilson
d) Franklin D. Roosevelt
e) John F. Kennedy


only 20% would pick the right answer.
 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
75. If Truman had expanded, rationalized and defended the internment camps...
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:46 PM
Aug 2013

... then it would have been a lasting legacy. In fact, it would have been a lasting *democratic* legacy.

FDR signed the internment order on Feb 19, 1942. On January 2nd 1945 he rescinded it.

The PATRIOT act was adopted in 2001 with a sunset provision. 10 years later, Obama signed an extension of that law.

It is his legacy, and he should own it. It pisses me off that because of him, Democrats own it.

pnwmom

(108,972 posts)
81. He has rolled back NSA since Bush. Bush was engaging in warrantless wiretapping
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:12 PM
Aug 2013

and ignoring FISA courts entirely.

So why didn't you give Bush that honor?

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
92. The "Right" is hard at work trying to entrap Obama on this issue. Snowden is their main operative
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:37 AM
Aug 2013

on that front, working directly for Rand Paul.

Unless, of course, politics isn't what it has always been, and the R's will claim Bush's crimes as their own.

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