Many NSA scandal stories are probably somewhat exaggerated

[cthulu2016]

Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)

This is what happens when the official version of a thing becomes untrustworthy.

People assume the worst.

And assuming the worst even has a probative function.

The PTB 'fess up to a fair amount of stuff in the course of "debunking: folks who assume the worst.

"We spy on 3 people."

"No, you spy on 1,000,000 people."

"That's an irresponsible exaggeration from the nut-left. We spy on 20,000 people, tops."

And so on.

I don't like intellectual anarchy, which is one reason I think the PTB should play it straight. Institutions being trustworthy reduces intellectual anarchy.

If I said we killed 9 million Vietnamese in the Vietnam war I would probably be guessing too high. And Vietnam minimizers would view my over-estimate as a public relations coup and talk about how many boxes I have in my garage or whether I have a clammy handshake.

But we did kill many millions of Vietnamese. For real. And most Americans do not know that.

And the NSA does spy more than it admits, and it does willfully seek to deceive the public with misleadingly low representations, and guess what... that is a bigger story that whether some blogger makes an exaggerated claim. I don't care about blogger credibility. I care about the credibility of my government. They are not comparable values to balance.

The whole "alt media is lying, the NSA is only 100 times worse than they claim, not a million times worse" game is PR and deceptive by nature. The only salient question is "Does the NSA lie to us?" not "Does the NSA have a better track record than Journalist X."

The typical "debunking" of NSA horror stories today has gotten comical... it reads like if NASA debunked all the crazies by showing that all the most famous Apollo missions were real and only Apollo 15 was partially filmed in a TV studio.

The powers that be should be reliable, not merely more reliable than some crazy.


The NSA, unlike NASA, simply does not have a great track record for reliable public pronouncements.

Whirlwind reaped, etc..

[Rex]

1. Sure what the hell.

nt.

[uponit7771]

2. Exactly, my issue with the NSA bit is the 15th is being torn down in every GOP lead state and a good

...portion of the active left is worried about Area 51

[ljm2002]

9. If your issue really was the 15th amendment...

...you wouldn't be using it as a throwaway line in every thread you can find on the topic of NSA spying.

[uponit7771]

12. It's NOT a throw away, it's a reasonable contrast of reaction what fudr and stoking articles

...are doing; NOTHING

Not a damn thang, there's going to be NO legislation coming out of this that Obama hasn't already began the conversation on...

In the mean time James Crow roars strong in blue states

[ljm2002]

14. So where are your OPs...

...on the voting rights issue? Where is your call to action? Because I'm not seeing it. The only time I run across these references to the 15th amendment and voting rights issues, is in threads about NSA spying.

[B Calm]

11. BINGO!!

[delrem]

3. Another POV is that "this is the tip of the iceberg".

So what it boils down to how well people absorb the factual information given, so they can assess the situation.

The US congress doesn't seem capable of doing that.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Excellent analysis

When credibility is blown, it's blown, and it's easy to assume that things are as awful as can be when they're usually not.

However... given that Sen. Wyden's saying that the confirmed nastiness is just the "tip of the iceberg", I suspect that there's new kinds of awful we haven't even thought of yet.

[Mojorabbit]

7. Yes, and when he says that I am paying attention.nt

[Fumesucker]

5. We can all see the horrible effects of government lies in Iraq to this day

We can also see them right here at home, maimed vets and families with bleeding holes where their loved ones have been ripped right out from them.

At a visceral level people understand that government lying in a democratic nation can have horrendous consequences.

[AppetiteForApathy]

6. I gave up trying to know what's going on days ago.

I just hope this all comes to a satisfying conclusion for everyone so that we can move on to those two-thirds of Americans living paycheck to paycheck.

[pnwmom]

10. Yes. Welcome to DU, AppetiteForApathy! n/t

[Downwinder]

8. Does NSA use the same PR firm as TEPCO?

[KharmaTrain]

13. And Endless Loop...

...of speculation always seems to run rampant in this day of almost instantaneous communications. No sooner does a rumor seep out then it's spread all over the place and then twisted to fit whomever's agenda. Ultimately the truth does begin to seep out, but by then the tin foil has spread to far and wide it's either ignored or discredited. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

Another loop are those that are jaded in any official explanation as being a lie or diversion...automatically dismissing any response as being "propaganda" or ass covering. There's nothing that can be said that will ever satisfy a critic...and then when asked how do you solve the problem, you get get the endless loop of distrust and more speculation. It's not what the government is doing that's the problem...it then becomes a "whatif" game. The loop rocks on.

Then...when you try to ask for ways to get to the truth and fix problems, the critics will never trust anyone who has the power to make a change or they opt out of the system altogether. It's a maddening game that tends to get more absurd as one tries to dig down on fact and reality vs. rumor and paranoia...

Cheers...

[1-Old-Man]

15. From my very limited experience with the NSA I'd say they are grossly understated.

What I am referring to is their capabilities, and if there is one thing I can assure you of its that the NSA, and in fact all of our intelligence Agencies, is that it always utilizes all of its capabilities.