The NSA leaks are all hype from the conspiritorial rightwing Hydra

[stupidicus]

on which Snowden/GG are but one little head.

I can't help but recall how years ago when I first stumbled onto the "internets" to engage the rightwing monster during the lead up to the Iraq War, and in what turned out to be less than civilized debate, I argued that they were gonna lose suport of libertarians as a result of the militaristic face Bush was then putting on the fascist face already long in evidence, and that the right/republican/libertarian fusionism that had long been much the rule, could/would be altered. Not only did the loss of rightwing support occur

Libertarian-leaning voters started drifting away from the GOP even before Katrina, civil war in Iraq, and Mark Foley launched the general stampede. In their recent Cato-published study “The Libertarian Vote,” David Boaz and David Kirby analyzed polling data from Gallup, the American National Election Studies, and the Pew Research Center and concluded that 13 percent of the population, or 28 million voting-age Americans, can be fairly classified as libertarian-leaning. Back in 2000, this group voted overwhelmingly for Bush, supporting him over Al Gore by a 72-20 margin. By 2004, however, John Kerry—whose only discernible libertarian credential was that he wasn’t George W. Bush—got 38 percent of the libertarian vote, while Bush’s support fell to 59 percent. Congressional races showed a similar trend. In 2002, libertarians favored Republican House candidates by a 70-23 spread and Republican Senate candidates by a 74-15 margin. Things tightened up considerably in 2004, though, as the GOP edge fell to 53-44 in House races and 54-43 in Senate contests.[/blockquote] http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/liberaltarians

but as the title of that piece suggests, some were interested in forging a more substantive and lasting relationship between the libertarians and the left.

To date, Democrats have made inroads with libertarian voters primarily by default. Yes, it’s true that Markos Moulitsas of Daily Kos fame caused something of a stir by proposing the term “Libertarian Democrat” to describe his favored breed of progressive. And the most prominent examples of his would-be movement—first-term Governor Brian Schweitzer of Montana, fellow Montanan Tester, and Virginia Senator-elect Jim Webb—have sounded some libertarian themes by being simultaneously pro-choice and pro-gun rights. At the same time, however, their anti-nafta, Wal-Mart-bashing economic populism is anathema to free-market supporters.

In short, if Democrats hope to continue appealing to libertarian-leaning voters, they are going to have to up their game. They need to ask themselves: Are we content with being a brief rebound fling for jilted libertarians, or do we want to form a lasting relationship? Let me make a case for the second option.

This is precisely why I've argued from the beginning on this issue, that while I think the NSA/spying stain on BHO that will likely result is inescapable, like his with his continuing support for unpalatable cuts http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/17835-white-house-continues-playing-lets-make-a-deal-with-the-gop-on-social-security-and-medicare-benefit-cuts should they occur, there's nothing stopping those in the congressional races from exploiting both the opposition to those cuts and that to the spying for their benefit -- and libertarian/libertarian-leaning voters could certainly have a role in that.

Wow, libertarians are making an issue of/exploiting something that shows the Janus-like condition shared by our alleged left/right pols in DC on matters of foreign policy after having reacted favorably when that perception didn't exist? I thought they were merely doing what should be expected of them, which happens to be something that the protectors of the state, and here on DU, the protectors of the current face on it, don't like, outta anyone regardless of their politcal stripe. It simply can't be accepted it seems, that they are merely being the allies of many who find much of the rest they stand for (particularly the right-leaning, anarcho-capitalist types) unacceptable.

Imo all the bashing of the libertarians on this issue is counterproductive to the goal we as dem voters presumably share -- maintaining the senate and regaining the house. And all the guilt by association BS from the authoritarians around here in the form of "Paulite", etc designations intended to insult those who'd dare align themselves with the libertarians on this issue, is gonna have the net effect of eroding support and election participation of the kind sought outta those ranks as well.

But hey, we'll just add this to the ever-growing list of things rightwingers don't have a monopoly on in these days of a growing faux duopoly in DC on such matters of peace and war -- the political acumen and foresight of an earthworm on the part of those who see themselves as the lefty "good guys". Like rightwingnuts as well, this silencing of critics efforts by the various methods and means we've seen deployed/employed here, has merely been an exhibition of their flair for being their own worst enemy too imo, because of ignorance or a lack of foresight.

ANd who is that "most effective congress critter" working with to achieve that designation, and why isn't he being denounced for the things he's achieved as a result for daring to work with that enemy, as opposed to recieving that rather flattering designation?

The new strategy is simple. Grayson and his staff scan the bills that come out of the majority. They scan amendments that passed in previous Congresses but died at some point along the way. They resurrect or mold bills that can appeal to the libertarian streak in the GOP, and Grayson lobbies his colleagues personally. That’s how he attached a ban on funding for “unmanned aerial vehicles,” i.e. drones, to the homeland security bill. He swears that they don’t back away from him because of his old persona—well, his relationship with Webster is “strained,” but he points out that Webster won re-election by 5,000 votes and Grayson won with 70,000. Never mind that. Are the members of Congress more forgiving than members of the press?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2013/07/florida_democrat_alan_grayson_is_the_most_effective_member_of_the_house.html

as some say authoritarians "THINK ABOUT IT!"

[Whisp]

1. I don't get your gist. Talk to me like I'm 99 years old...

summary?

[pscot]

2. Try that using words of one syllable

and brief, declarative sentences.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. The Democratic Party could "seal the deal" by reclaiming Civil Liberties as their issue.

If that is your point we are in violent agreement.

[stupidicus]

4. indeed it was

and apparently an IQ well above room temp is required to see that