General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo the TRUTH is beginning to emerge. Miranda was carrying stolen classified information
I told you guys it was wise to wait for more facts to emerge.
It's important to wait for a story to develop before jumping to conclusions.
That is all.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)sweetloukillbot
(10,792 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)which there is absolutely NO quote where he states he said this. Those that are lying are those that claim he was saying this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023487282
I think you all need to work harder to attribute him knowingly obtaining "stolen documents", which many are LYING instead about this instead of providing any proof of it.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It was a sleazy weasel move by the reporter to make it SEEM like the claim had been sourced.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3487377
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Here? at DU 2013?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)If we don't know that, how can we judge if it was stolen, or borrowed, or non-existent?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwalds investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media including video games, DVDs and data storage devices and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/world/europe/britain-detains-partner-of-reporter-tied-to-leaks.html?_r=0
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Really good.
cyclezealot
(4,802 posts)the Hell away from US or the UK.. Had the Guardian been better prepared they should have routed Mr Miranda through either Rome or Zurich . Using British Air or routing him through London.. Crazy planning. The benefit for Snowden/ Greenwald.. The US and the UK have again ticked off South American countries.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I have less and less reasons to believe GG has integrity, I would not consider him a friend and would not carry his baggage. The rest of the world does not cater to our laws and as the old saying goes, when you are in Rome do as the Romans do.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)He also has Wikileak-like "Insurance" set-ups that may not be so kind in vetting their release of the rest of the info.
One wonders if either of the two governments involved, or airport security, even bothered to think about that before going all ham-handed today.
randome
(34,845 posts)Comparable to all the other Wikileaks-type claims that never materialized? It's a bluff. A lie.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
WillyT
(72,631 posts)fasttense
(17,301 posts)It could be a summary listing, or opinions of Snowden. So I suggest you wait for the evidence to come out.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Is willing to send the one he loves into the mud to do his dirty work, wow.
nebenaube
(3,496 posts)or a copy of the insurance file...
Cha
(295,903 posts)Course, greenwald could always play the "I'm not intimidated" hero/victim later after putting his partner in this situation.
sweetloukillbot
(10,792 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)If GG would send his partner off on a mission as this I do not put any trick past his attempting. What a way to show love.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Warpy
(110,907 posts)especially since it took the aggrieved partner so long to condemn it as harassment.
I doubt if it's safe for him to carry his own purloined paperwork these days.
If you're going to make a career of embarrassing bureaucrats--and it is one of the most noble careers out there, IMO--you've got to be ready to have them try to stop you.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Americans are supposed to be in the dark, act like nothing is happening and just be busy serving the big corporations and being good shoppers.
tblue
(16,350 posts)The op is BS.
progressoid
(49,825 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)It seems that someone claiming this is the case without proof is the only thing that has been established here!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)...Mr. Greenwald said someone who identified himself as a security official from Heathrow Airport called him early on Sunday and informed him that Mr. Miranda had been detained, at that point for three hours. The British authorities, he said, told Mr. Miranda that they would obtain permission from a judge to arrest him for 48 hours, but he was released at the end of the nine hours, around 1 p.m. Eastern time.
Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwalds investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media including video games, DVDs and data storage devices and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/world/europe/britain-detains-partner-of-reporter-tied-to-leaks.html?_r=0
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023487282#post25
Note the abundance of the 'Mr. Greenwald said' in the article. Of course, he is available for comment but wisely out of reach, or rather out of touch otherwise. But you gotta understand where he's coming from:
Its Hip! Its Cool! Its Libertarianism!
...Today, the ruling class knows that theyve lost the culture wars... libertarianism is their last ditch effort to ensure a succession to the throne... With such a bleak economic forecast for the Millennials, it shouldnt surprise anyone that our elites want to make libertarianism shorthand for political disaffection. Now theres a demographic with some growth potential. And its inspired a lot of poorly-sourced, speculative babble about how the kids have all gone Galt, almost always through the personal anecdotes of young white men...
None of this should be too surprising. For almost two decades, roughly two-thirds of the American public have supported what wed call a moderate European welfare stateputting the average U.S. citizen significantly to the left of the Democratic party...
Heres the real reason libertarians hate the idea. The welfare state is a check against servility towards the rich. A strong welfare state would give us the power to say Fuck You to our bosses - this is the power to say Im gonna work odd jobs for twenty hours a week while I work on my driftwood sculptures and play keyboards in my chillwave band. And Ill still be able to go to the doctor and make rent.
Sounds like freedom to me.
http://exiledonline.com/its-hip-its-cool-its-libertarianism/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021055465
Love the Exiled piece there.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That has not yet happened. They may be simply a ruse. I cannot believe that Snowden's husband would also serve as his courier. Miranda would raise too much suspicion.
The documents could be related to the Snowden matter and not be stolen at all.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)I was confused before by arguments from both sides so I kept a distance, but now I think I'll just give up on it all completely.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)I thought he had a lap dancer girlfriend, though.
Anyway, I don't really care.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)I guess I wasn't reading closely enough since the thread was about Greenwald... Caught me... But it still would be a point of why Greenwald isn't in Russia along with Snowden now...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,615 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)tblue
(16,350 posts)Makes no sense at all.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Any other courier schmuck who was detained might now be in jail.
Sid
ZRT2209
(1,357 posts)dtom67
(634 posts)That Miranda was detained USING A CONTROVERSIAL ANTI TERRORISM LAW. No legal council, no explanation of why he was detained as a terrorist, and no charges.
No abuse of Power here.
Due process and probable cause; such quaint pre - surveillance notions......
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)But what I can't get past is Greenwald's 'shock and awe' at the idea of his spouse - carrying all kinds of computer equipment, devices, etc., after having just been in Berlin for the sole purpose of meeting Greenwald's business partner re Snowden - would be detained and questioned.
"It's just an attempt to intimidate ME!"
Seriously, Glenn? You didn't see this coming? You didn't tweak to the idea that having told the world you are in possession of documents that could bring the US to its knees, your spouse would never be suspected of transferring said documents - especially in light of the aforementioned circumstances - and detained and questioned as a result?
Are you really THAT dumb? Or did you just want to play the persecuted hero yet again - regardless of what 'unpleasantness' might befall your own husband?
That GG - what a piece of work. It didn't take long to cast himself as the ultimate victim - as always.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)"This was obviously designed to send a message of intimidation to those of us working journalistically on reporting on the NSA and its British counterpart, the GCHQ."
That's not the same as "ME!"
Singular vs plural?
All the quotes I have read Greenwald says it's about "us."
Greenwald: "The actions of the UK pose a serious threat to journalists everywhere."
"But the last thing it will do is intimidate or deter us in any way from doing our job as journalists. Quite the contrary: it will only embolden us more to continue to report aggressively."
Lots of "us" in there...
eShirl
(18,466 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)And if it was stolen encrypted, classified information, then why did they let an obvious spy and criminal go? Hmmm?
And while we're on the subject of thieves, how about how enlightening us about how all that stolen encrypted, classified information got collected in the first place, and who collected it, huh?
How about those thieves?
You got any advice for us about them?
- No? Didn't think so......
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Pick on someone your own size intellectually.
Celefin
(532 posts)Swagman
(1,934 posts)of Snowden and Greenwald is an ugly thing to behold.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Whooopsie.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)a reasonable suspicion, given everything Greenwald has published and threatened to publish.
Sid
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)If Miranda was detained he still made the 1:15 BA flight which means he still would have sat in the airport in transit terminal for hours. I'm a bit confused about their timeline.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)This is my favorite response in this thread.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)...hint, Miranda was released.....
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)self-delete before you become an object of utter ridicule like your illustrious counterpart of cartographic repute.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)So there's an origin to the map wars?
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)Snowden-NSA story broke and concerned a supposed map of the flight plan of Morales' ill-fated flight that made an unscheduled stop in Vienna. The problem arose because the map showed only the Moscow ring road and a land route between the two principal Moscow airports.
I don't have a link to the thread readily at hand, but it had some of the funniest shit imaginable, showcasing DU's stilleto-like collective wit at its finest.
No doubt some DUer reading this has the infamous thread bookmarked and available for a link.
ETA: I found it! (Thanks to DU's site search function!): http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164458
Warning! Do not read while drinking hot coffee!
How did I miss this beauty?!
*wipes eyes*
Thanks for the hot coffee warning
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)and it usually bears little semblance to his earlier "reporting"
Sid
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)...is it me or does it seem like all these episodes with Mr. Greenwald happen on Sundays? Just in time to get on the Sunday shows and promote his "columns"...
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)...and I really don't care about Greenwald. Since tin foil flies around this place and rumors are accepted as fact why not toss some more out there...
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Maybe Greenwald is really Sensenbrenner's sock puppet, and secretly authored the Patriot Act so that he'd have something write about.
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)...none of this really matters in solving any of the problems of government and private spying into our lives.
Cheers...
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)bhikkhu
(10,708 posts)I suppose Greenwald looks better, as he beat the other guys to the press. Maybe the british police need to get someone on twitter to give their side of every story minute-by-minute...
At least they released Miranda, though it was a bit petty holding him for the maximum time they were allowed without charges.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Pretty sure i would not believe much of anything without a lot of collaborating evidence
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)I like how when you write that one word in ALL CAPS it lends it an extra helping of gravitas. Well done.