Who is coordinating this Internet message board defense of NSA?

[grasswire]

When the Republicans do this kind of perception offense or defense, we know that it is Rush or Drudge or Beck or Hannity or FOX leading the charge, putting out the "official" narrative for the propaganda, the buzz words, the talking points, the false claims, yada yada.

In this instance, who is coordinating this effort?

I visited several message boards today and comments sections of web sites, and found exactly the same phrases used to defend NSA-executive branch and to attack Glenn Greenwald and his colleagues and his partner.

Some of the common phrases from today:

++Miranda was a mule.

++I wouldn't put my loved one in that position.

++Greenwald is a narcissist, exhibitionist, greedy, attention freak...

++Miranda is Greenwald's "lover"

++Miranda carried stolen documents, state secrets

++Miranda was used and abused

++Greenwald is mad at Obama for some immigration ruling re: gays.

++Miranda referred to as Greenwald's "little woman"

++Various homophobic slurs


Someone is issuing talking points or setting the narrative. Are tax dollars being used to support this propaganda?

[rug]

1. Whovever it is must be a pro.

[City Lights]

3. Haha, that was my first thought, too.

[HooptieWagon]

5. +1

[westerebus]

9. makes sense

[CrispyQ]

210. Touche!

[westerebus]

223. Merci

[grasswire]

12. bigger and more skilled than a pro nt

[Art_from_Ark]

56. Several pros, maybe?

Posting under various noms de plume?

[villager]

64. noms de guerre

[NealK]

66. Or maybe several pros posting under the same nom de plume?

[backscatter712]

75. That explains why certain posters are so prolific... n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

107. +1 n/t

[truebrit71]

135. Indeed...

[OnyxCollie]

163. And never seem to sleep.

[uhnope]

173. a bigger, more skilled pro with super powers and an evil laugh.

[Rain Mcloud]

214. I have had problems in the past with some government employees.

I would routinely grab the I.P. Address of a troller upon receiving death threats to give to the FBI.
The Army Corps of Engineers was a major source of RW Hooliganism.
This really hurt pretty bad,my dad was in McArthur's Signal Corps in the Phillipines.
Talk about feeling betrayed.

[Skraxx]

120. I'm Doing It, You May Call Me "Dark Lord"

And nowhere is safe from my reach.

[TBF]

121. ...

DUZY

[blm]

252. You're way off base, rug. Pro is smart and sincere and anyone who's paid attention

the last 8 years would know that by now.

[Puzzledtraveller]

2. Correct me if I'm wrong, were you not defending the admin on the overall NSA issue?

I get names confused so Im seriously asking.

[grasswire]

8. never

not me

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. I think I recall now, it was another grass name lol

[xiamiam]

187. actually, i thought that you were the one who had changed opinions..correct me if I'm wrong

since you mention it..have you had a change of heart or do I have you(puzzled traveler) confused with someone else?

[CrispyQ]

212. I miss the friends feature for exactly that reason!

Why is it again that we can ignore people but we can't make friends? That seems so repub to me.

[HooptieWagon]

4. The NSA, duh!

[Warren Stupidity]

6. I think we have dedicated enthusiasts, not paid shills.

Why they are so fucking blind is a mystery to me, but so is the mindset of my rightwing BIL. Anyway, clearly they are all getting their talking points from the same place and then rushing off to post the same tedious bullshit. My guess is that from their perspective they are doing the right thing and fighting the good fight.

[grasswire]

10. yes, enthusiasts are coordinated, too

But someone is paying the organizer(s).

[AZ Progressive]

42. Dedicated enthusiasts that can come up with a detailed response including articles within 3 minutes?

I kid you not, one time I saw one of them respond in a detailed manner with multiple articles just 3 minutes after the OP was posted.

[LondonReign2]

54. Indeed

Multipart quotes with multipart links spit out in an instant? Not likely mere enthusiasts.

[backscatter712]

72. The words you're looking for are "persona management software"

And yes, that's the kind of software used by the kinds of people who are paid to 1. Spread their message here. 2. Disrupt people contradicting their party line.

[OnyxCollie]

165. I would like to see more than four sentences in a row

before a blue link.

Maybe that will come in a software patch.

[backscatter712]

167. LOL! There's a Turing fail!

[CrispyQ]

213. "Maybe that will come in a software patch."

I'm coming up for air from laughing so long! Ooops....not done yet!

[Smarmie Doofus]

109. +2 n/t

[Puzzledtraveller]

122. ^^THIS^^

Glad you said it. I think they need to be sh*tcanned.

[lark]

179. What's funny is when the links are to their own posts.

[blm]

253. Had you paid attention in the past, you'd KNOW how wrong you are today.

.

[Marr]

50. I think we have both. /nt

[L0oniX]

60. "dedicated enthusiasts" ...more like a group obsesive compulsive disorder. n/t

[backscatter712]

80. They're either obsessed, or they're doing this for a living. n/t

[Enthusiast]

88. Best answer yet...........nt

[enigmatic]

62. Occam's Razor for the most part

There's never a shortage of foot soldiers willing to go to war w/ perceived enemies; every political party, reliqious institution, and cult has them. Yes, there has to be someone feeding them the propaganda, but most are only too willing to do and say anything to "win".

When the goal in Politics is being in power rather than affecting change, when loyalty is to The Party and/or The Politician rather than core ideals that are defended no matter who's in Power, anyone or anything is for sale and negotiable.

[Smarmie Doofus]

110. +3. And the collateral damage here is that DU becomes a less attractive place for real people...

... to agree/dispute/compare notes w. other REAL people.

[RKP5637]

112. +3, n/t

[creeksneakers2]

168. The damage I see

is the labeling of anybody who is skeptical of the prevailing DU view as an enemy agent. I seriously doubt that anybody in power gives a shit what people on DU think. They also wouldn't be stupid enough to think that posting talking points is going to change the minds of the fervent. I think the whole idea of a coordinated response is another fantasy of the uniquely virtuous / persecution fantasy folks here who are ideologically rabid.

By the way, I'm on Obama's E-mail list and I didn't get any of the talking points you suspect are coming from the White House.

[Blanks]

177. It seems that the hallelujah choir on this thread...

Are the ones with the same talking points. Same exact shit every day, always either the thread with the most recs or among the top 5.

Vague, unclear criticisms of the 'people who support the NSA'. In the end (or the middle) there's always a suggestion for not voting for democrats and starting a third party.

This is clearly just another thread disguised as an anti-NSA thread that really is pure and simple a manufactured opportunity to trash people who support Obama and democrats.

Kind of an odd thing to pop in and see literally every fucking day at the democratic underground.

[creeksneakers2]

198. You made me smile big

[Little Star]

113. yep

[SaveOurDemocracy]

147. ++++++++++++++++

[bvar22]

156. DURec for Post #62 by enigmatic

[font size=3]
"When the goal in Politics is being in power rather than affecting change, when loyalty is to The Party and/or The Politician rather than core ideals that are defended no matter who's in Power, anyone or anything is for sale and negotiable."[/font] --- enegmatic, Aug 19, 2013

[zeemike]

161. And I second that rec.

It is all about winning at any cost.

[RC]

208. And I second that second, or third it or something.

There is way too much hero worship around here.

[LWolf]

220. I'll "3rd" that rec. nt

[AgingAmerican]

89. They definitely have the same talking points

And many of them have under 100 posts.

They rely heavily on fallacies and obfuscation, and get called out on them constantly.

[questionseverything]

124. i think both

"enthusiast defenders" and paid personas

[HardTimes99]

133. Warren, you have captured a general truth here and one we should all

try to remember. Save for the few Iagos who walk amongst us, most people think they are 'doing the right thing from their perspective'. For those defending the NSA and current administration, my guess is that they probably think it is vitally important to defend Obama at all costs against all attacks, lest any chink in Obama's armor give ammo to the fascists. I can respect that motivation, even though I disagree with it.

N.B. Coleridge said that Shakespeare's Iago exhibits 'motiveless malignity'.

[Warren Stupidity]

172. That is the problem for many such dividing issues.

I mean I get it, there really are *some* professional disinformation agents posting here, but the vast majority are just "enthusiasts" and the problem is that we have no fucking clue how to persuade them (nor do they have a clue how to persuade us, but they are just wrong on this issue.) I wish I knew how to get people to change their minds, but I don't.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

146. I think we have both. n/t

[Recursion]

7. And, like clockwork

I know it's difficult to imagine people can both disagree with you and be capable of independent thought. Yet the fact remains.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. I think the point was that the thought doesn't seem to be independent.

[Recursion]

17. Because people are capable of reading, and take up arguments they agree with?

[Cali_Democrat]

36. You're absolutely right

The OP is ironclad scientific proof of this.

It could be a dissertation.

[geek tragedy]

43. Because groupthink never happens otherwise here.

Ask Michele Catalano and Kimberley Dvorak.

[rug]

16. I saw three threads on Sunny within twenty minutes.

Not that I dislike dogs, mind you.

[Recursion]

18. There's this interesting technology called the World Wide Web

one result of which is that news is read (and, often, posted here) by many, many people quite soon after it is reported...

[rug]

21. There's also this interesting technology to control it,

despite which, people are far less susceptible to bullshit.

[Recursion]

27. There's "technology to control" the Web?

[rug]

31. There are many tecnologies to help authorities to control the web.

When that fails, they detain you and take your electronic devices. Blunt but effective.

Meanwhile, here are some early attempts.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-internet-and-iran-it-is-possible-to-pull-the-plug-a-783662.html

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/423196/will-the-us-get-an-internet-kill-switch/

[Recursion]

33. I'm well aware that there are ways for a country to shut down all of their Internet traffic

That's a far cry from "controlling the web", which is a fairly small subset of the Internet to begin with.

[rug]

35. The ability to destroy is the ability to control.

It's a small step from shutting it down to opening up secure, "controlled" if you prefer, connections.

You do not seriously think a government would shut it down without the ability to maintain its own internet communications.

[Recursion]

37. In a Sun-Tzu sort of way, I suppose. We're kind of straying from the original point

Which was that people repeat arguments they read and agree with, and that this does not imply some centralized distribution of talking points.

[rug]

40. We are. Although it is refreshing to discuss rather than exchange talking points.

[Maedhros]

181. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."

- Paul Muad D'ib

[rug]

203. Thanks for the citation.

[LondonReign2]

57. You're right. It could never happen

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/18/revealed-air-force-ordered-software-to-manage-army-of-fake-virtual-people/

[TBF]

123. There are also these things called "talking points"

that the campaign emails to supporters.

I think there are a few "pros" on here as well (and we all know who they are), but yes the campaign will send you talking points to combat right-wingers on the internet or in conversation. I only received things like that during the campaign when I was making donations but I would guess more dedicated folks (or paid staffers) get them all the time.

I would expect nothing less from a PR perspective and one reason the Obama team was able to win is that they actually used 21st century tools. But it goes both ways - those tools can be used to pound us with their talking points when we disagree with them as well.

[sabrina 1]

19. Then why do they all use the same talking points? People who are independent thinkers and

have honest well thought out opinions do not run around bashing people like Greenwald with the same old smears. So someone is coordinating this as it is not just here, it is all over the internet and a lot of people are asking this question.

The question is especially relevant regarding Greenwald since the exposure by Anonymous when they hacked into HB Gary's emails, a Private Security Corporation who was bidding on a contract at the time. Amazingly we learned, they were bidding on a 'smear campaign' against Greenwald of all people who was simply a Blogger at the time, writing about the Big Banks.

So since we know for a fact that he was targeted in a Security Contract Bid for a 'smear' campaign it is more than reasonable to ask 'who got that contract if it wasn't HB Gary? Because some of the material resembles some of the examples given in those emails. 'Do some opposition on his family etc'. Disgusting stuff frankly.

[Recursion]

20. Same reason the "other side" does. The marketplace of ideas.

Someone posts something, it resonates with someone else, and they post it too. It's how discussion boards have worked for about 30+ years now.

[Skidmore]

182. I don't know. Why do you and a number of other

people sound very similar in your postings? I always asssumed it was because you happened to share some common opinions. Why would it follow that people who don't share all of your opinions don't do the same? And where does it follow that they could not arrive at divergent opinions after reading a lot of the same information sloshing arou d the intertubes?

[sabrina 1]

185. You were correct. When people talk about ISSUES that they agree on they will sound

alike, in THEIR OWN WORDS. I can express my opinion on issues without using words like 'mules' and 'laundered' and 'Paulite' and 'reality based community' and 'purist' etc. I use my own words to express my opinions.

Can you link to any of my posts where I resort to the use of 'words' that 'everyone else is using'?

Look, we saw the evidence of how a smear campaign is born when HB Gary's emails were exposed by Anonymous. We saw that that Private Security Corp was bidding on a contract to SMEAR of all people, a BLOGGER. That blogger, back then, was Glenn Greenwald. The emails showed what they intended to do to try to 'smear him and therefor intimidate him into remaining silent about the Big Banks'.

And what I am seeing now re Greenwald is almost exactly the way they were presenting their bid to smear him. I guess someone else got that contract, but the evidence shows that these smear campaigns against 'inconvenient journalists, bloggers, politicians et al', are REAL.

So I will continue to assume that people who repeat patterns of phrases, words, smears etc are part of a paid for smear campaign.

[Downtown Hound]

140. Yes, because there is no greater example of independent thought

than towing the party line.

[octoberlib]

11. I've seen a lot of commentors on these blogs using the homophobic slur Gigi

to refer to Greenwald.

[grasswire]

15. yep, I saw that today too. nt

[WorseBeforeBetter]

46. Spandan, who is supposedly gay, uses it.

Spandan Mod > lucidamente
• 13 hours ago
−
And this is why GG's entire career is built upon yelling like hell.

And not only is he gay, but he's a patriot:

https://twitter.com/thepeoplesview

And he's a big fan of Chained CPI.

That so many DUers are sucked in by this poseur is truly pathetic.

[octoberlib]

94. I think his intent is to disrupt. nt

[backscatter712]

73. They think "I can get away with it if I use 'GG' instead of 'Gigi'".

Those of us who've been here a while see right through that shit.

[Little Star]

114. .

[DirkGently]

176. Uh oh. I support most of Greenwald's stuff, & call him "GG"

frequently because it's vastly easier to type out than "Glen Greenwald."

I wouldn't for second contemplate a homophobic smear on him or anyone.

If it's supposed to be code for "GiGi" and a smear, I think that's a getting a little too dependent on deep context to be a reliable index?

[Robb]

22. Reverse vampires, saucer people and the Rand Corporation.

We're through the looking glass, people.

[msanthrope]

102. Did you know that Ellsberg was Rand Corporation? Think about THAT! nt

[dawg]

23. I think it's mostly just ordinary people who are just *very* invested in this administration.

They are very short-sighted. It's a shame. This thing is happening and we won't be able to stop it.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

25. we've rolled back degradations to our constitution before and we'll do it again

and do it without sliming our president.

[dawg]

29. Not like this we haven't.

The technology has never existed before to enable such a thorough clamp down on information. Surveillance can be done on journalists at a level that simply was not possible 20 years ago. Just knowing that fact will change the reporting we receive. Add to that the actual acts of intimidation, and we are truly in danger of being cut off from knowing what our government is up to. We can still vote, but without any information to know what is truly happening, it will be impossible to cast an informed vote.

[Warren Stupidity]

79. The last time there was a breach this profound was the civil war

We are now 12 years into the authoritarian national security state made official by the post 9-11 legislative initiatives. There is no end in sight. The vested interests supporting the status quo control both major parties, the electoral process, the mass communications, the courts, the legislature, and the executive branch.

The situation we are in is unprecedented. But keep on cheer leading "your team" regardless of the issue, because, really, that is what's important.

[reusrename]

159. and the treasury, you left out the treasury.

They are printing themselves money and more money at an unprecedented rate. A bigger transfer of wealth has never happened.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

24. it would make your world a little more tidy if what you believed was true

but the fact remains, if there are powers that be out there wanting to get the most bang for their buck, they aren't going to do so by paying disruptors to mess with TRUE Democrats on this site.

That is a bit of a naive approach.

There are just a whole lot of Democrats and progressive independents who disagree with your worldview.

[kenny blankenship]

26. I stopped opening mail from OFA back when O punted on health care

so don't ask me to name names.

[cthulu2016]

28. True story: There was a 4-2 jury decision

to hide someone saying that British officials detained Miranda because "they thought his penis pump was a bomb."

Right result, but only 4-2? Geezus.

[one_voice]

30. I'd be very interested in seeing this..

Miranda referred to as Greenwald's "little woman"

Do you have a link to back that up?

As for the others, how many of those were answers to direct questions?

for instance:

I wouldn't put my loved one in that position

I used this today, but it was in response to a direct question. Hardly an a defense of the NSA.

It'd be nice to see links with these for context and others to be looked at as against CS/TOS.

[grasswire]

32. I'm not just talking DU

I visited various news comments sections and internet message boards. I couldn't tell you where the "little woman" comment was seen. I remember that it did elicit many heated protests in response.

[one_voice]

38. I'm sorry I misunderstood...

I read 'from today' meaning here. My bad.

[Turborama]

34. "several message boards"? Surely it'll just make your argument stronger if you tell us which ones?

Also, maybe some links to the same phrases being used on different sites?

[Cali_Democrat]

39. You're actually expecting proof?

Like links and stuff?

[Turborama]

63. Yeah, that sort of thing. We're usually meticulous about backing up our claims here, aren't we? n/t

[backscatter712]

76. I've seen them on Daily Kos.

Look for posts by a user named Reggid.

For example: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/19/1232386/-Recap-and-Predictions-for-Future-Outrage-From-Greenwald

The rhetoric and tactics should look very familiar.

[Turborama]

115. So, a poster on KOS says similar things that are said here and there's a huge conspiracy...

... to co-ordinate an internet message board defense of NSA? What if this "Reggid" is a member here under a different name? Also, if The premise of your OP is true there would be much more evidence you could show us, and that others could bring here and show.

But so far your sample is too small for it to be anything other than a theory of a conspiracy.

[LWolf]

221. You ask for a link, you get it,

and you immediately deflect it.

What a surprise.

[Whisp]

225. a link to one single solitary person.

proves it! ok, I give up, you win.


but please go on, this is better than the comedy channel here the last little while.

[LWolf]

250. What do I win?

Look it over and tell me, please.

[Turborama]

237. Missed the plural in my request? 1 link isn't "several sites" and no, it isn't sufficient evidence

To prove it's happening on "several message boards".

Here's what I asked.

Surely it'll just make your argument stronger if you tell us which ones?

Also, maybe some links to the same phrases being used on different sites?

You're snarky "what a surprise" ad hom is absurd.

[LWolf]

249. .

First of all, you didn't ask me. It's not my argument.

Second of all, it is NOT a surprise that the link wasn't enough for you.

It would not be a surprise if 10, or 20, or 30, wouldn't be enough.

[Turborama]

254. 1st of all, you don't know me, so your continued ad hominems, as I said, are just absurd snark

When you decided to jump in and argue with me about the veracity of this claim it became your argument. You are willingly owning the claim you are defending.

Trying to prove a claim that there is an internet wide conspiracy with 1 link from KOS is, in a word, pathetic.

If it satisfies you, then that's your prerogative.

Such paucity of evidence certainly doesn't satisfy my criteria for credibility of such a grandiose claim.

[LWolf]

255. And 3rd:

I didn't jump in to argue with you. I just pointed out that you got at least some of what you asked for, it wasn't enough, and I wasn't surprised. That's not an argument. It's an observation.

And 4th: You don't seem to understand what an ad hominem is. Let me give you some examples:

When you call a poster pathetic, that is an ad hominem attack. Or you can take the weasel-way out, of course. Like the Christians who chant that they "hate the sin, not the sinner," while spewing hate on those "sinners," you could claim that the single link is pathetic, not the poster. I don't see much difference there, though.

If I were to say that you are delusional, or just stupid, those would be ad hominems. They would be about you, and not about any point. That's why, of course, I haven't said them.

And finally: If you could learn to approach it with some sense, your point is valid. Evidence, in this case links, would make a stronger argument. My point, though, is that I think you have a pre-conceived bias that would influence you to reject any evidence that might be offered up. In that case, it's kind of a waste of time for the poster to offer it. The demand for links, in that case, is akin to somebody eagerly demanding to play catch, but every time you throw them the ball, they throw a rock back at you. They don't really want to play catch, they just want to throw rocks.

Your eagerness to develop a full-blown argument with me about an observation I made is a clue.

[Turborama]

256. I said relying on 1 link to back up a claim that tax dollars are being used to spread propaganda

...on discussion forums is pathetic, and it is. I didn't say anyone is pathetic, just that it's a pathetic amount of evidence.

Again, your whole attack is an ad hominem against me ("I'm not surprised it wasn't enough for you&quot as if you know me - a complete stranger - and what would be enough.

Let me put it as simply for you as I can.

1 link is not enough to prove anything beyond coincidence.

More than 1 link would be better.

I'm not going to go into your continued analysis of me.

[LWolf]

257. And you are still tossing those rocks.

You know, if you made your point about wanting more evidence, and then let it go, instead of this ludicrous "you're attacking me" bullshit, it wouldn't be a rock, yet it would carry more weight.

I made one observation, not an analysis, and you keep providing more evidence to back it up.

The smart thing to do in this case would be to let it go. Stop throwing rocks. Maybe another time, on another thread, you'll prove me wrong.

[Turborama]

258. I did make my point and let it go, until you jumped on me and accused me of never being satisified

Anyone can see that's all you've done. Just leave me alone. Please.

[LWolf]

259. OMG

[Mnpaul]

218. I don't think Reggid is here.

Reggid keeps responding with stupid questions/claims at the top of the thread pushing all meaningful discussion down the page. The best way to deal with this tactic is to ignore.

[backscatter712]

219. Different web sites respond to different disruption tactics.

The Reggid persona seems to be using the tactics that work for disrupting on Daily Kos.

[geek tragedy]

41. Skinner speaks for me:

1. This whole who-is-the-paid-shill witch hunt is disruptive nonsense.
It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592697#post1

[Cali_Democrat]

44. STASI!!11!

[geek tragedy]

45. No, this is the HBGary conspiracy theory archetype

which totally proves that the OP and their crowd never engage in groupthink.

[AZ Progressive]

48. As if the Greenwald / Snowden haters act in good faith...

Greenwald / Snowden haters spamming the boards with propaganda and using Republican like manipulative debating tactics is not a fair way of debating and is not acting in good faith.

[geek tragedy]

51. Meh to them both. nt

[davidpdx]

59. Thank you for reposting this

It's too bad this is too long for a sig line.

[pintobean]

71. Skinner is obviously a paid shill

throwing up a smoke screen for his army of paid shills on DU.


Just in case -

[treestar]

85. Yes, this is obvious

And as if they don't have talking points.

[GeorgeGist]

97. Surprising lack of awareness for an administrator ...

of an internet discussion site.

[Hydra]

125. Skinner is in a bad position

He doesn't want DU to be an official Democratic Propaganda outlet, but he's a moderate and last I heard he supports this admin.

The biggest problem is that as the NSA issue gets dragged further into the light, the people consistently supporting a rollback to the days of silence are looking more and more...mechanical. Canned talking points, canned insults, canned rofls...all in perfect sync with each other.

All I can say is that truth prevails in the end.

[zipplewrath]

144. Wants more than that

I suspect he is in a difficult place because he actually would like this site to be a gathering place for professional posters in the democratic organizations (Stuff like the Grayson postings). So he can't exactly complain about them. Furthermore, it would be difficult to distinguish between say a professional poster from an advocacy organization and a disrupter from an GOP location, or even governmentally sponsored locations (including foreign governments). Currently he seems to be presuming that the only significant presence is from advocates.

[stevenleser]

126. Beat me to it. nt

[Downtown Hound]

142. Actually, I'm perfectly capable of arguing my point based on its own merits

and recognize that we'd be foolish to believe that there aren't paid shills here. This is one of the largest and most influential progressive boards on the web. Do you really think that the Assholes That Be are just going to leave it alone?

[RobinA]

149. This Is Still

considered a progressive board?

[geek tragedy]

236. Yes, because the truth is that no one cares

what the members of DU think.

[uhnope]

171. plus conspiracy theories are prohibited in this forum also due to nonsense factor. nt.

[Whisp]

226. 'betrays an utter lack of creativity;......

I sure have noticed that! it's almost painful to see (supposed) grown ups pointing their tattle tale little fingers of accusation against Prosense. It's disturbing but also funny as hell, I guess that's dark humour.

[geek tragedy]

227. I'm almost tempted to autorec her posts because they piss off so many

of the people who deserve it.

[Whisp]

228. nerves of steel, she has and a titanium backbone.

Ha, and they hate that soooooo much that they can't make her into a foaming lunatic, or make her cry, or make her quit or humliate her.. whatever the hell they are after.

I've said this before, that if I ever get another pet or a gold fish, I am going to name it Prosense. Honest.

[geek tragedy]

238. More importantly

the ability to laugh at stupidity.

[Caretha]

239. Which ProSense

are you talking about?

This one?

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't be changed to make that legal.

ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM
Original message
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM by ProSense

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't
be changed to make that legal. The Republicans are trying to pull a fast one with this "law change" tactic by framing the illegal spying as warrantless spying on terrorists; therefore, the law is being changed to give Bush the authority to spy on terrorist. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal. Bush committed crimeS by illegal spying on Americans and breaking existing FISA laws.

I'm sure all criminals would love to have a law passed that retroactively absolves them of their crimes.


Or the new incarnation of ProSense. The one where it is A-Okay to change the law and make it legal as long as it's a Democratic administration that does it?

[Bobbie Jo]

235. My favorite

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592979#post1

1. We do have access to members' IP addresses.

I think this is going to shock some people...

It looks to me like the people who repeatedly accuse other DUers of being paid disruptors are all logging on from the NSA.

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. I am the one who knocks...

[msanthrope]

93. "I do not say that lightly..."

[Marr]

49. US Chamber of Commerce, the DNC, companies in the surveillance industry...

Those would be my first guesses, but I expect there are hundreds, if not thousands of major and minor outlets that would have an interest in idea advertising on political forums and blogs.

I'm not saying that all defenders of the administration are paid, however-- far from it. I expect the vast majority are simply partisans, with a deep loyalty to their party leaders.

[NightWatcher]

52. It's this dude named Phil. He's real good at computer stuff like that

I thought it was Dave, but turns out it was Phil.

[NoPasaran]

70. Dave's not here, man

[mimi85]

81. HaHaHaHa It's been a long

time since I've heard that bit. Too long.

[ismnotwasm]

143. No I'm Dave!

I got the stuff...

[hrmjustin]

53. I doubt anyone is coordinating anything. We have dedicated posters on both sides of this debate.

Let us not question them but let us debate the issues.

[davidpdx]

55. So we are back to the paid shill meme?

and adding the conspiracy theory twist. Nice. Maybe you should take up a hobby to do something constructive. Just a suggestion.

[L0oniX]

58. Ask who started this NSA spying shit? Bush 1? ...Bush 2? ...and now the republiDems expand it.

Is this still the real Democratic party?

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Oh much farther than that

Truman. It's a policy done by both...the technology just has gotten incredibly sophisticated. The first official turn into the US was after OKC, and I mean official.

[L0oniX]

150. No doubt it has greatly expanded from Bush/911. So much for attacks on DU members...

for using repuke talking points ...when the Dems have been expanding the NSA and DHS activity to the point now that they are harassing and threatening journalists and news papers ...and even their friends. Journalists are routinely pulled aside and given special (negative) treatment by the NSA and DHS ...every time they use an airport. This is getting really bad. The Guardian just had their hard drives destroyed ...just heard about this on Democracy Now on my way to work today.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. We are far from hitting bottom

Far from it

[L0oniX]

154. I am getting really bummed out about this and our future. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

155. I know

It's getting really bad to be honest

[L0oniX]

195. ...

"It's getting really bad to be honest " Oh ...so now yew decide to be honest?

[temporary311]

158. True. People haven't started disappearing yet.

At least not for longer than 9 hours.

[nadinbrzezinski]

160. Actually people are, just that Muslim-Americans after 911

Or Aliens are easy to ignore. I will qualify this, well known people have not disappeared yet

[AverageJoe90]

61. I'm sorry, but.....

I'd betcha the actual paid trolls were defending Snowden/Greenwald, if anything, at all.....(And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Miranda *was* a dupe of some kind.)

[TekGryphon]

65. Cool, now anyone who questions Greenwald is a "paid shill"

I don't have a bone in this fight, but this exactly what I was talking about in my last thread. This kind of broad brush categorization.

Debate the issues. Stop trying to lump everyone who disagrees with you together and then insult them.

Same shit we saw during the Chained CPI discussion, and a hundred other times before that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. The admins should be flattered to get the attention...

BTW: They're probably what's called "kites".

People doing the dirty work but it's easy to cut the strings so they're on their own.

[Cleita]

68. Yes they are and they travel in groups.

By putting five key posters on ignore here on DU that are spreading this propaganda, I managed to net all their sycophants who prop up their posts as well.

[backscatter712]

77. If only Skinner would put those five on forced global ignore... n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

92. What's a forced global ignore? n/t

[AgingAmerican]

96. My guess would be

Make it so everyone on DU has them on ignore?

Personally, I enjoy watching them ineptly worming and squirming in denial, but I'm weird like that.

[Violet_Crumble]

99. That'd be my guess too...

Not sure if I'm keen on a DUer with a rather lengthy transparency page wishing they could dictate which DUers I can and can't see. Skinner and MIRT at times make that decision, but I'm fine with the calls when they make them

[msanthrope]

139. "Global Ignore" is the new rallying cry of some on this board who seem to have both

high-count ignore lists and the inability to get along with others.

And by high-count ignore lists, I mean, they have put LOTS of posters on ignore--one poster even bragging that she has "hundreds" of people on ignore.

That's not enough, though--they not only want to be able to ignore half the board--they want those they ignore to be unable to respond to them.

In short--they want a heckler's veto for posters who might challenge what they write.

Take for example the troll bullshit Hannah Bell/HiPointDem posted--can you imagine how that thread would have gone if she simply blocked people from posting replies to her by using a "Global Ignore" function?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023453360

[JI7]

222. that's some weird shit, these people actually WANT something like this ?

i have seen and heard of a few who brag about having hundreds on ignore. i guess it's nice being in their own little worlds.

they post shit and defend a swift boater and just about everyone who mentions this info is on ignore. and they continue pushing the story .

[RobinA]

151. I Had Luck

with this as well, but then I started surfing with some security in place and my computer isn't recognized, therefore I can't "ignore" the annoying few and they all came bouncing back. Grrrr.

[Fearless]

69. Someone's doing something. That much is clear.

I've posted and viewed heavily for years, and several people who haven't posted nearly as much are posting a whole hell of a lot of high profile statements lately. Probably a special interest group though to be sure. The US government is kinda behind the times on the interwebs.

The most prevalent statement is one that goes like this:


Person A: I like fish.

Them: Fishing nets designed by Saudis are unpatriotic.

Person A: What?

[backscatter712]

74. The propaganda mongering has been obvious for a long time.

And I too notice the little patterns.

Like how the trolls all seem to leave at once, especially on a weekend, and how they start posting again all at once, like they're working in shifts.

Or how when a breaking story comes out or one of their opponents posts a popular thread, how they swarm a thread all at once.

Don't tell me that this shit isn't coordinated.

I'm sure the people responsible are well-paid.

[backscatter712]

78. The homophobia, be it open or veiled, is evidence that they're not Democrats & should be banned.

Homophobia is how right-wingers think, be they Beavis-and-Butthead two-post trolls from the Cave, or be they contractors running persona-management software in a cubicle somewhere in the offices of a right-wing think tank or an intelligence contractor.

[ghostsdoexist]

82. For those who are incredulous...

Last edited Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:40 AM - Edit history (1)

I have been noticing interesting patterns and anamolies in the comments section of reddit links pertaining to the NSA, the Snowden leaks, &tc. and I'm not the only one. This goes far beyond seeing comments that I disagree with and writing their creators off as paid shills and this is more than seeing similar phrasing in comments from different users. In addition to the sort of anomalies observed by the OP, I've seen some comments by different users posted at different times that will be generally different in content, and yet will have one or two sentences match word-for-word, sentences that could not reasonably be expected to be replicated coincidentally. Today, on a link to an article discussing the hard drive destruction at The Guardian, I found comments by two different users that had two paragraphs the exact same, the only difference being that one had an extra paragraph. One of the users had only ever made 4 comments, all recently, all on NSA-related links, and all very pro-NSA. Here is one of the more laughable comments by that user:

Related news about other countries spying on their own citizens as well as some common sense leads to the obvious conclusion that countries spy on each other. Given that, how could the US possibly compete on a global scale without the NSA? What would you replace the NSA with? How can anyone who understands world politics consider calls to abolish the NSA as anything more than naive?

Edit: I forgot to mention another curious incident on reddit. I made a comment on an NSA-related link in reply to a user who said they were very concerned about the recent leaks, but felt helpless and powerless to do anything to cause change. I replied with some helpful suggestions, such as gathering the best sources and using the most persuasive arguments from them to form into pamphlets or posters, etc. This comment received +17 upvotes and stayed that way for about 4 or 5 days; suddenly, in the course of one day my comment received enough downvotes to bring the total to +5. This seemed odd to me, especially since the link under which my comment would appear had long since disappeared from the front page of reddit. I wonder how much this is costing and are my tax dollars paying some private company to do it?

[hootinholler]

119. Welcome to DU n/t

[Hydra]

129. Good first post!

Welcome to DU! Hopefully you will enjoy your stay. Don't mind the trolls, they think they're winning.

[grasswire]

178. good observations

good sleuthing, too

[KurtNYC]

194. Sounds a lot like the system that the Government was bidding out in 2011 has been deployed

You may recall that one of the things that came out in the big HBGary Federal data dump was that the US government had put out a request (that HBGary was thinking of bidding on) for software that would let the government manage a bunch of social networking profiles at once, in order to create a series of different online personas on different social networks that could all be easily controlled by one person. Well, HBGary Federal didn't get the account... but someone else did. Apparently a company called Ntrepid has scored the contract and the US military is getting ready to roll out these "sock puppet" online personas.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110318/02153313534/us-military-kicks-off-plan-to-fill-social-networks-with-fake-sock-puppet-accounts.shtml

And this is from HB Gary:

To build this capability we will create a set of personas on twitter,‭ ‬blogs,‭ ‬forums,‭ ‬buzz,‭ ‬and myspace under created names that fit the profile‭ (‬satellitejockey,‭ ‬hack3rman,‭ ‬etc‭ ‬.‭ ‬These accounts are maintained and updated automatically through RSS feeds,‭ ‬retweets,‭ ‬and linking together social media commenting between platforms.‭ ‬With a pool of these accounts to choose from,‭ ‬once you have a real name persona you create a Facebook and LinkedIn account using the given name,‭ ‬lock those accounts down and link these accounts to a selected‭ ‬#‭ ‬of previously created social media accounts,‭ ‬automatically pre-aging the real accounts.
...
Using the assigned social media accounts we can automate the posting of content that is relevant to the persona. In this case there are specific social media strategy website RSS feeds we can subscribe to and then repost content on twitter with the appropriate hashtags. In fact using hashtags and gaming some location based check-in services we can make it appear as if a persona was actually at a conference and introduce himself/herself to key individuals as part of the exercise, as one example. There are a variety of social media tricks we can use to add a level of realness to all fictitious personas

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All#

Making a mockery of Democracy.

[Ocelot]

216. Yes, and The Guardian was one of the papers that originally covered this story

The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.

A Californian corporation has been awarded a contract with United States Central Command (Centcom), which oversees US armed operations in the Middle East and Central Asia, to develop what is described as an "online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.

The project has been likened by web experts to China's attempts to control and restrict free speech on the internet. Critics are likely to complain that it will allow the US military to create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.

The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities – known to users of social media as "sock puppets" – could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.

Gen David Petraeus has previously said US online psychological operations are aimed at 'countering extremist ideology and propaganda'

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

[Kolesar]

83. Collusion, direction, and use of our tax dollars?

You can find a better use of your time than writing this paranoid rubbish, grasswire.

[treestar]

84. Having a hard time dealing with the fact everyone is not in lockstep

today, are we?

People just don't always agree. Get over it.

[bravenak]

86. We are the collective.

We are the hive. Be afraid. We are syncing our minds online.
Not really. Just don't agree. It's perfectly normal for people to varying opinions. If we all agreed it would be strange. Like the Stepford wives.

[Enthusiast]

87. I would say the entire propaganda effort is tax payer funded.

Is Fox News subsidized by the US government to serve as a conduit for propaganda? It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Puzzledtraveller]

90. There is probably private companies and firms that offer this.

[Blue_Tires]

91. I don't get it...How does any level-headed person read Greenwald's work or listen to his interviews

or read his tweets and NOT think "narcissist"?? It's an apt description...

And no, I'm not trying to discredit his work or smear his reputation or whatever...Most of the great figures in history had universe-sized egos (and yes, ego was the eventual downfall for some of them, too) so it's not necessarily an insult; it's just calling it what it is...

[Maedhros]

186. But who cares?

I keep seeing posters playing up Greenwald's supposed narcissism. By what stretch of imagination is this at all prurient to a discussion of NSA overreach and the criminalization of adversarial journalism?

[Blue_Tires]

189. Nothing else to really discuss until Greenwald's next series of stories come out...

I'd rather skip the fluff and talk directly about the NSA....But you see what two-thirds of the threads in GD are about: Greenwald hate/hero worship, which poster is or isn't a paid NSA shill, etc...

[Maedhros]

191. For myself, I don't "worship" anybody or anything.

But when Greenwald is subjected to false allegations, I'll defend him.

[Blue_Tires]

193. I haven't made a single false allegation

I just opined that he has an ego problem -- It's not like I'm making some great leap in that assessment, or slurring his name for saying so...

[Maedhros]

202. But it's irrelevant to the conversation.

I'm sure Woodward and Bernstein have gigantic egos, but it's not like I would have wanted them to shut up about Watergate.

[Blue_Tires]

248. The funny part is I started an NSA thread and it fell off the front like an anvil

So clearly most people here are content to chatter about the fluff and accuse this one or that one of being some paid shill for the DOD...

[Maedhros]

260. Yes - the efforts to distract and derail are working (sadly). [n/t]

[Cerridwen]

95. The "usual suspects" and their "useful idiots".

Do you remember the hunting of the Clintons?

It's pretty easy to keep throwing shit and hoping it hits a target. Remember drudge was just putting out bullshit gossip when he accidentally unearthed lewinsky.

Remember ken starr?

It's really quite easy to appeal to people's biases and prejudices then hit them in the emotions and just sit back and let them spew the latest "common knowledge" that "everyone knows." Of course, you can get extra traction if you can make it a team sport and watch as the players defend their team by attacking the other team.

It works well regardless of the issue or the personalities in question. Just make up shit, present as fact, have a friend tell another friend...the latest scandal is created, the latest target, career, reputation is destroyed.

The unquestioning "thinkers" get their jollies watching someone else's destruction and feel vindicated that they were on the winning team.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[KittyWampus]

188. Hello Cerridwen, it's been a while since I've seen you post. (I used to by Cryingshame)

[Cerridwen]

200. Not nearly so long as it's been since you were Cryingshame, I think.

Back then there was cuban liberal and padraig18; I've only heard them referenced. I think they and seventhson(?); can't remember the full username, were recently outed or outed themselves as moles? I imagine you saw the original walt starr, too. Another legendary flame-out. DU was smaller then and it was easier to know more of the members.

I take breaks from DU. Most times real-life; sometimes sanity in the midst of political flame-fests.

[PowerToThePeople]

98. in a few hours they will be here.

should get a snapshot of this thread before they arrive. See how many of them post at the exact same time calling your idea bullshit.

[sufrommich]

100. Here's another idea,someone on the internet

disagrees with your opinions. I know that seems hard to believe,but it happens.

[AgingAmerican]

104. When a group does it in unison

Using the same tactics and rhetoric simultaneously, it raises an eyebrow. I believe that is the crux of the OP.

[sufrommich]

105. There is no "group doing it in unison"

that's called paranoia. Seriously,no one's opinions are so incredibly true and right that the only reason anyone would disagree would be if paid to disagree,that is the height of narcissism. I stop taking anyone seriously who engages in this conspiratorial narcissism,it's navel gazing nonsense.

[AgingAmerican]

108. Sure there is

...and oddly, newbies with only a couple dozen posts will show up with using the exact same rhetoric and tactics.

Your ad hominem attempt at obfuscating the subject is duly noted.

[stevenleser]

127. See post #41 nt

[scheming daemons]

134. i have been here since 2003

And have 20,000+ posts

And I am saying that Miranda was GG's mule and Snowden is a traitor.

Your paranoia has gotten the best of you.

[nolabels]

180. Since 2002, and yea Snowden is traitor

NOT!

He is merely the guy who figured the genie should be put back in the bottle so we all could look at it.

People often hate the others who point out the lies in the fairy tales.

I don't know what i believe exactly and really not sure how important those real and actual facts are but i do for a fact that a whole of people are being paid a whole lot of money to paint those lies for so many others to believe. And if nothing else makes ever made me want to think about it then that would just for instance.

[AgingAmerican]

242. Paranoid of what?

I might ask...

[scheming daemons]

132. there us a bigger group arguing in unison that GG is a hero

Are they being paid by someone?

[AgingAmerican]

243. What are their talking points?

NT

[AgingAmerican]

101. When your 'support' of a politician or a movement

...boils down to obfuscation, denial, character assassination, bottom feeding, diversion, ad hominem attacks, and coordinated spamming.....anything but rational discussion.....it's time to ask yourself, "What do I really believe?"

[bvar22]

229. Perfectly Stated.

Repeat:

[font size=3]When your 'support' of a politician or a movement boils down to obfuscation, denial, character assassination, bottom feeding, diversion, ad hominem attacks, and coordinated spamming.....anything but rational discussion.....it's time to ask yourself, "What do I really believe?"[/font]

---AgingAmerican, Aug 20, 2013
[/font]

Thank You.

[Renew Deal]

103. Maybe it's you

You just put all the talking points in one place.

[tridim]

106. LOL. Paranoia, self-destroyer. nt

[Turborama]

116. LOL, catchy! n/t

[Godhumor]

111. Who is coordinating attacking opposing groups as paid shills?

Only explanation for why these kind of posts keep showing up...

[creeksneakers2]

199. Its also possible people repeat what they read.

Figure 20 people read and repeat something, and each one of them begets 20 more, and each of them begets 20 more. You'd have lots of posts saying the same thing without a conspiracy.

There are also people on the net who post on different sites under different names. Its probably pretty common. So the same person might post multiple times.

A paid conspiracy is the least likely explanation.

[Harmony Blue]

117. The corporate politicans of the DC bubble

pay for to have talking points dispersed throughout the internet. But that has proven to be futile as the approval rating anyone associated with the DC beltway continues to sink.

[1-Old-Man]

118. The two greatest defenders of the NSA are, in order, the NSA and the White House

[greatauntoftriplets]

128. The butler did it!

[Capt. Obvious]

130. The ROFL smiley is in on it

[scheming daemons]

131. i believe that Greenwald is an idiot and Miranda was a mule

... and so far, nobody is paying me or giving me talking points.

If you can get me in touch with those who might pay me for pointing out that Greenwald is and idiot on DU, that would be helpful.

I could use the extra cash.

The fact that it is also my opinion is a bonus.

[JoePhilly]

136. I wonder ...

[Bluenorthwest]

138. It's the homophobic trope troupe, a regular rotating company of volunteers.

The sexuality based attacks on Greenwald on DU go back for years, long before Snowden. Snowden is the excuse of the day for the sneering, dismissive anti gay sentiments so many have had a hard time putting aside since Obama 'evolved'.

[JoeyT]

141. Kicking and reccing this, not because I think any of the defenders are paid,

but just because I think it's funny to watch many of the same people that constantly kicked and recced threads about how all the "haters" were really paid conservative trolls have a fucking FIT when they're accused of the same thing.

If you want to see coordination, wait until defense of the TPP ramps up. Right now threads about it are largely ignored. There aren't really any talking points about it, as of yet. But pay careful attention to it. All the sudden over the course of a few days it'll go from not being defended at all to being vigorously defended by half the posts in a thread.

[closeupready]

145. My feeling is, some who post here profit from surveillance infrastructure or

government contracts awarded therefor.

THEY are the ones who have been defending these unconsitutional attacks. Is it coordinated? Not sure - maybe in some part, but clearly, the talking points - once released and disseminated - are parroted even when the people parroting them don't understand them.

So it could LOOK coordinated, even if it's not. But I do think to some extent it is coordinated.

[Zorra]

148. Photos of the hierarchal coordinated effort from the top down.

[HappyMe]

153. Miss Scarlet, in the library

with the candlestick!

[grantcart]

201. win the thread

[sheshe2]

204. Scarlett: Great balls of fire! HICCUP! It's Rhett!

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0006053/quotes

[rhett o rick]

205. You rang?

[sheshe2]

206. HICCUP~

Hi Rhett.

[rhett o rick]

211. Hi Back sheshe2

[HappyMe]

207. Wrong Scarlet.

Miss Scarlet is from the board game - Clue.

[sheshe2]

209. LOL, I didn't have a Clue~

[bvar22]

157. No regimented structure is really necessary.

There is always an element that is attracted to a strong, conservative, authoritarian society. They lack a developed Internal Guidance System,
and still crave guidance and validation (from above), and acceptance by a peer group.
These groups quickly adopt the same words and phrases because they have been approved.

It is possible that the Talking Points quickly distribute themselves among those with the above traits.

[Ocelot]

174. Agreed, but what you seem to be describing is a Republican mindset

It would be expected that Cheney and his ilk would take the positions that Snowden is a "traitor", that journalism should be suspended/abolished over "National Security Concerns" (and they have).

[jmowreader]

162. A couple of those are true

Miranda was a mule, and he was in possession of stolen documents. And Greenwald is a narcissistic, exhbitionist, greedy control freak who was using Miranda.

Greenwald's biggest mistake was allowing Miranda to go through England. The Official Secrets Act does not play. We have FTP for a reason...

[Ocelot]

164. Perhaps a small, organized group of paid individuals with numerous profiles?

This story is more than 2 years old and has gotten surprisingly little exposure:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All

According to an embedded MS Word document found in one of the HBGary emails, it involves creating an army of sockpuppets, with sophisticated "persona management" software that allows a small team of only a few people to appear to be many, while keeping the personas from accidentally cross-contaminating each other. Then, to top it off, the team can actually automate some functions so one persona can appear to be an entire Brooks Brothers riot online.

Yes this is my first post here. Longtime lurker (DU has long been, my go-to NEWS site, believe it or not).

[backscatter712]

166. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's happening here. n/t

[nashville_brook]

183. it would be naive to think that DU wouldn't be seen as a target

or Kos, HuffPo, Reddit... anywhere comment is produced/consumed by real people in great enough numbers.

[felix_numinous]

169. Same talking points=

Verrrrry interesting.

[Flatulo]

175. I think you're getting paid to say that I'm getting paid.

Alternately:

Your persona management software is calling my persona management software persona management software.

[JI7]

184. Why don't you all Do some investigation into where the money is coming from ?

but more likely the goal is just to get a bunch of replies and recs for a thread .

[Maedhros]

190. What I find interesting and disturbing is the personal hatred directed toward Snowden et al.

It doesn't really make sense, on a Democratic/Liberal board, for actual Democrats or Liberals to react with such visceral antagonism to someone leaking information that reveals wrongdoing by the CIA or NSA or Pentagon. Usually one would expect to see that kind of vitriol aimed at someone like Rumsfeld or Cheney, people who are inside the military/intelligence community.

It just doesn't ring true that the people seething with hatred for Glenn Greenwald, of all people, are actually Liberals. We generally don't react that way to journalists pointing out civil liberties abuses.

[grasswire]

231. Yes. I've only seen this king of visceral antagonism...

....on freerepublic during the Bush years, and on conservativecave.

EXACTLY the same kind of gleefully stated visceral antagonism. It made me kind of sick to watch the freepers at their howling mob frenzy, and the people chasing Greenwald and Snowden elicit the same kind of gut quease.

[Maedhros]

245. I can draw some sort of parallel that gives me insight.

I don't really like Josh Marshall over at TPM. I think he is disingenuous in that he defends the Obama Administration for doing some of the same things that he criticized the Bush Administration for doing. I think he has a definite partisan slant that makes him not objective. But I don't seeth at the guy like the folks who seeth at Greenwald. They have some kind of fundamentally different outlook that gives them all this hatred that they focus on the strangest of targets.

[RC]

246. +10

You are correct. Why on a supposedly Democratic/Liberal board, for actual Democrats or Liberals, we have Conservative view points supporting the corruption of our government. Yet we let them slide because they claim to be "Democrats".
I have been wonder about that for years. This exposure of the NSA has just highlighted the rift even more.
You will also notice they keep trying to bring it back to Snowden and Greenwald, diverting from the attention of the real rot, our own corrupt government and the doings of the NSA.

[Maedhros]

261. Personally, I think it's because modern Democrats in large part have forgotten

what used to be the core Democratic values. Many have internalized the decades-old propaganda used to denigrate the word "liberal" and liberal policies. Whenever someone starts crowing about "living in the REAL world" or supporting "reality-based" policies, I take them as dog-whistles for "liberals are stupid." Which is ironic, since the posts in which you find these canards read like some middle-school playground argument. Oh, and smilies to mock us.

[MisterP]

192. well, they keep saying that Snowden and Assange are Koch dupes, so...it's the Koch brothers

http://www.sourcewatch.org/

[Progressive dog]

196. How do homophobic slurs and personal

attacks defend anything? If these attacks weren't happening, I'd bet someone would make them up to keep people from questioning Greenwald's version of events. Oh!! Sorry.

[JaneyVee]

197. I am.

[CrispyQ]

215. TPTB are not stupid.

They may pay think tanks to spout anti-global warming BS, but they know it's coming. They have put an apparatus in place to clamp down on dissent & they are in the refinement process. They know things are going into the shitter.

400ppm & no one is even closely serious to addressing climate change. The human race is in for a rough ride. I thought I would not even see the beginning of it, but every week is a new report stating, things are "accelerating faster than our models predicted."

Your best bet is to position yourself as good as you can in terms of environment & economy. Head north to communities where the money is. The rich drop lots of crumbs off the table, but you have to live close to get them. It is usually more expensive.

I will close with this. When I was a young girl, about 14, my mother showed my her WWII ration booklets. She was just a little girl, but even she was allotted ration stamps. My grandmother oversaw them. In today's world of diminishing resources, there are not going to be ration stamps. Your ration stamps will consist of how much money/credit you have. We are no longer all in this together. You're on your own.

In a just society, there is no limit to how high one can climb, but there is a limit to how far one can fall.

~Jared Bernstein, author of "All Together Now: Common Sense for a Fair Economy"

[cantbeserious]

217. Kick And Recommend

eom

[Summer Hathaway]

224. The only coordination going on here

is individuals reading the facts, allowing said facts to inform their opinions, and coordinating hand-eye movement to allow for typing said opinions and posting them.

Just because you don't agree with those opinions doesn't mean that someone somewhere is organizing message board participants, issuing talking points, or setting a narrative.

The fact that you think that anyone who didn't jump on the all-hail-Snowden bandwagon, or buy a lifetime subscription to the Greenwald Fanzine, is part of some web-wide conspiracy speaks for itself.

You have taken the classic "someone is being wrong on the internet" cartoon to a whole new level of hilarity. It's now "someone disagrees with me on the internet, and the only possible explanation is a coordinated effort to make me and my heroes-de-jour look bad".

Get a grip.

Or, in the alternative, keep playing "Wasting Away in Paranoiaville" in your head - over, and over, and over, and over ...

[awoke_in_2003]

230. Someone here called Miranda...

Greenwald's little woman? Unreal. Did it at least get hidden?

[grasswire]

232. no, not on DU

on some other message board I visited yesterday. It might have been the Guardian.

[awoke_in_2003]

233. Okay, good...

that would have pissed me off.

[RC]

247. Miranda looks like a woman's name.

They know Greenwald is a man. So they wrongly assumed Miranda was a woman. Not everything is homophobic.

[stupidicus]

234. I'd think many/most of them are homophobes

following the logic behind their "you're a racist" talk a few weeks back

but I leave that kinda stuff for the criminally stupid that they showed themselves to be

[DirkGently]

240. Ha. Doesn't look that coordinated to me.

If anyone's getting paid to lay down these sad / awful talking points, they're getting way too much.

[uhnope]

241. Can anyone explain why this Conspiracy Theory thread gets the okay?

Seems to me the forum rules are clear. I mean, it's good for a laugh, don't get me wrong, but...

[Turborama]

244. Because Forum hosts don't think there's any such thing as a conspiracy theory

They misunderstood and think that the alerts were about this being a "meta" OP, when the alerts clearly state this is a conspiracy theory, which it is and that is a clear violation of GD's SOP:

" No conspiracy theories. " <---- Period

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1002

[Trillo]

251. Don't discount the possibility that these posters may be bots.

A phrase DarthVader used to use was "message force multiplication."

[Blue_Tires]

262. This is so adorably quaint four year later....