No. No no. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!

[PCIntern]

NO! It is NOT analagous that "Even if Obama were born in Kenya..." HE WAS NOT BORN IN KENYA! He was born HERE. In the United States of America, in the 50th State WHERE THERE WAS EVEN A FUCKING TEEVEE SHOW CALLED "HAWAII FIVE-FUCKING-O. Because is the FIFTIETH STATE...from 1959! I was alive at the time in Bensalem, PA - I remember when Hawaii became a state.

AND HE WAS THERE WHEN HE WAS BORN TO AN AMERICAN MOTHER.

There is no, not one, iota of truth in that reprehensible birther lie. Not one. It was in the fucking NEWSPAPER at the time.

This is EXACTLY what the Rethugs always hope for: that we'll give an inch, then a foot, then a yard, then a mile, and then the whole game is theirs. NO. This Cruz has a real battle to fight. And that's his and their BIG PROBLEM. DO NOT MENTION Obama's name and whatsisface's name in the same sentence. They are not co-equal. That's what they WANT you to do...that's how it works.

BECAUSE IF YOU DO THIS, then very soon you're going to be seeing posts on D-fucking-U which start: Since we can all agree that the President, whom I adore, may or may not have been born here, then Senator Cruz deserves some respect/consideration/my vote(!).

Mark my words...it'll happen here. It ALWAYS does.
Remember what the guy said in the film 'Spaceballs': Evil will always win out over Good, because Good is dumb.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Well said! K&R

[kelliekat44]

32. But "journalists" who keep reporting the birther nonsense are untouchable....right? nt

[unblock]

2. mclame is the closer analogy, born in panama to american parents.

although in mclame's case, it took a law passed after he was born to make him a citizen from birth....

[PCIntern]

3. Yeah, well I don't give shit about him either...

that's how the birther issue got started anyway, because the PTB on the right KNEW that McCain was probably born on foreign soil, so they turned it around. They ALWAYS DO THAT and we always let them make inroads. Not this time.

(I believe that they said that McCain had been born in a hospital which didn't exist at that time, and then quickly retracted that when someone figured that out.)

[COLGATE4]

4. Yep. The newest meme justifying the McCain 'US

birth' story is that, no, he wasn't born at the Coco Cay Air Base hospital (which wasn't even built until 1941) but now it's that he was born at the Coco Cay Submarine base (which supposedly had a hospital at the time). My money is still on McCain being born in a Panamanian hospital in Colon, the only near place large enough to have a hospital at the time.

[PCIntern]

12. Name of the hospital certainly fits...nt

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

66. I get it now, so that is why he acts like a turd.

I wonder if he was born as a 'Kling-on'.

[RoccoR5955]

72. I am truly amazed.

That someone else figured this stuff out.
I thought that I was the only one.
Also the only one to figure out that there was no navy hospital in 1936 in Coco NAS. If it was even a NAS at the time, and not just a small submarine base.
Thanks.

[demwing]

16. I think the OP said NO

About a dozen times

[unblock]

56. i thought i was basically agreeing with the op, so i don't know what you're disagreeing with.

[demwing]

80. No?

OK, check it out - I was really just making a dumb joke, but I do think you missed the point. Saying McCain is the better analogy implies 3 things:
1. Cruz is a good analogy, but McCain is better
2. McCain is a good analogy in the first place
3. That Obama's experience needs an analogous experience for comparison in order to make it understandable.

Born in America to an American citizen, what needs an analogy?

NOTE: before hitting post, I went back to reread your previous comment. It occurred to me that you MAY have meant that McCain's birth was a better analogy to Cruz's birth, and that maybe I mixed up your subject with your object. If so, many apologies for taking up a minute of your life that you'll never, ever get back.

[unblock]

83. apology accepted. but i'm a slow reader, so that's TWO minutes.

[treestar]

22. And it was always noticeable that the same birthers

Did not require to see any of the documents! They wanted to see Obama's, but never McLame's, not his BC showing his birth in Panama nor his parents' proof of American citizenship.

[former9thward]

58. His parents?

Are you saying the commander of the American military in the Pacific during the Vietnam War was not an American?

[treestar]

70. WTF?

We are talking of the term "natural born citizen" in the Constitution.

People demanded Obama document he was a citizen, but not McLame.

Being in the military does not prove one is a natural born citizen. A naturalized alien born person could do that. Or McLame never had to document his US citizenship, for any purpose, including going into the military.

Yet Obama did, fancy that.

[former9thward]

73. A reporter from the Washington Post did ask McCain for his BC.

It was provided. The Washington Post gave four 'Pinocchios' to your theory. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/05/john_mccains_birthplace.html

It has been a requirement if you are running for President to show citizenship to the Federal Election Commission for 70 years now. Obama did it, McCain did it, Romney did it and so on.

When I went into the military I had to document whether I was a citizen or not and I'm sure McCain did also. What evidence do you have that he did not have to do that?

[PCIntern]

84. I am sorry

Where was McCain born? Oh...not in the Continental (at that time) U.S.? THAT was the issue with Obama promulgated by the birthers: that he was not, but THEIR definitions, a natural-born US citizen because he ostensibly was born in Kenya. McCain may or may not have been born in the hospital on the base - we will never know the answer to that (to borrow and paraphrase the Birthers) but the Rethugs put us on the defensive by doing what they did, and we were never allowed to question the authenticity of McCain's BC, since that was considered 'gauche' and trite by the Press. AFAIC, McCain was never held to the same standard as our President in terms of that issue . No one ever said that mcCain is not a citizen. The birthers stated that anyone not born on US soil is not eligible for the Presidency. My contention is that what was good for the goose...

[former9thward]

85. If you want to stoop to the level of the birthers you are welcome to it.

Have fun throwing mud at each other. I choose not to participate in that. The poster I was replying to not only questioned whether McCain was a citizen he questioned whether McCain's parents were citizens. McCain's father was Commander of all Pacific forces during the Vietnam War. Somehow I doubt LBJ and the Joint Chiefs would have allowed that position to go to a non-American. Stay out of the mud. You will get dirty.

[PCIntern]

86. If you read the post about the parents

The poster is simply saying that all the birther requirements for Obama were waived for your buddy McCain including but not limited to, info on his parents.

[former9thward]

87. I showed where the Washington Post asked for the BC and got it.

Yeah "my buddy" McCain. Typical attempt at slander when you don't have facts. Have fun in that mud. The poster did say the parents were not citizens. Which is why there has been no reply from him/her.

[PCIntern]

88. Non-denial denial

Nice try

[lpbk2713]

5. No!

(Didn't think it would hurt to add one more)

[jberryhill]

51. No?

[temporary311]

6. Didn't the Spaceballs guy

get shwartzed in the junk right after saying that, though?

[mstinamotorcity2]

7. I am with you on this.

I personally am tired of Ridiculously Ignorant People (RIPs). I am tired of dissecting rhetoric. Trying to play nice. If we have facts, explain why we are going in circles over silly talk from republicans. Just as hard as they talk silly, we should talk fact and not entertain that bullshit. We spend more time dispelling rumors and lies, than just stating the facts. And call out repugs when they lie. but to say they are liars is supposed to be beneath us. I don't think so if they are lying. you know like the "Kill grandma" bullshit in the Health Care fight. That fight took a lot out of everybody to get something passed. And silly repugs are still trying everything to make people think the law is no good. Getting into a debate over a law that was created by some of the most intelligent people to benefit the Country, made us look silly. We should have said sit down shut the fuck up and enjoy the ride.

[LisaLynne]

8. You're right.

Similar to getting us to call the anti-abortion people Pro-Life. After a while, it starts to slip in. Doesn't seem like a big deal at the time, but giving ANY space to a complete LIE turns out badly in the end. It allows them to frame the issue, which they are good enough at without our help.

[PCIntern]

9. Ed Zachary Correct! nt

[uponit7771]

10. *****OP OF THE DAY!!!****

[The Stranger]

11. Call Congress! RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

[Warpy]

13. Evil wins out because that's where the money is

Good is invariably underfunded.

[RC]

14. I found a discrepancy in your rant.

It was in the fucking NEWSPAPER at the time.

The birth announcement was in BOTH newspapers at the time. Honolulu had two newspapers.

[PCIntern]

15. THANKS!...

Rhetorical "the", but your great point is taken!

[malaise]

17. Very well said

Rec

[classof56]

18. YES YES YES YES YES X 100 or so. You are RIGHT ON!

No more playing those stupid games. Enough already! YES YES YES etc.

Thanks for your post!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. Please don't quote crap quotes from dubious movies.

Good is smart, and evil does not always win out.

[nevergiveup]

20. "Hear Hear"!

K&R

[blackspade]

21. WTF?

This makes no sense...

BECAUSE IF YOU DO THIS, then very soon you're going to be seeing posts on D-fucking-U which start: Since we can all agree that the President, whom I adore, may or may not have been born here, then Senator Cruz deserves some respect/consideration/my vote(!).

What DU member is going to say anything like that about Ted Fucking Cruz?

Obama may or may not have been born here? Is the a single idiot on DU that has said that?

[treestar]

23. No they will start saying that

it is not fair to Cruz and we didn't treat Obama like that. IOW we can't demand proof of Cruz or challenge his eligibility, because we defended Obama's. Which is not the same, but they will argue it to make it look like we are being unfair.

If the Rs run Cruz, we should make a big issue of natural born and whether it includes people born abroad of American parents. They had the effin' nerve to start up on that doctrine of people born HERE whose parents were not American should not be considered natural born citizens, so we can well challenge the concept that a citizen born elsewhere may not be a Natural Born citizen.

[blackspade]

24. Who would say anything like that?

We didn't 'treat' Obama like that because he birth certificate thing was a bunch of bullshit.

We can certainly challenge Cruz about his citizenship because he was born in Canada.
However, I would suggest that this not be a source of attack on him as it distracts from the very real teabaggery that is his political 'philosophy.' That is what he should be hammered on.

[blogslut]

27. Also

Ted Cruz's father was born in Cuba and only became an American citizen in 2005.

[treestar]

89. Which is exactly the situation they claimed meant Obama was not a natural born citizen!

We ought to pound them with Vattel for the fun of it.

[Hekate]

25. KnR PCIntern. What you said. nt

[MisterP]

26. GOD no

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

28. This thread should be immediately sent to THE GREATEST!!!

[Faygo Kid]

29. His father was black, and his name is Barack Hussein Obama.

To the birthers, that has always been the reason - not genuine skepticism, just racism and hate. And the Rove types are happy to feed that hate to assure their support.

Cruz takes it a step further, into McCarthy territory and maybe beyond.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

30. If "good is dumb", what does that make Sarah Palin?

I don't subscribe to this: "Remember what the guy said in the film 'Spaceballs': Evil will always win out over Good, because Good is dumb."

And as a joke, it's not even all that funny.

[Half-Century Man]

31. There might be a back door.

Last edited Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:41 PM - Edit history (5)

My copy of the constitution says

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of
the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall
any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five
Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Therefor if Cru(st)z can get declared a natural born citizen, he has an in. As he has a single natural born citizen as a parent, if they submitted a report to the consulate of his birth and He passed the criteria of that time, he would have been issued a form CA240 (I think that's the pretext CA). Wording indicates that not having a CA-240 will make proving status as a natural born citizen would be difficult.

Implying that it might be possible.
Check out

&feature=c4-overview&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ


Correction FS-240

[AsahinaKimi]

40. Oh I love that Clip!!

Was this posted on DU's front page? It should be! Love the Young Turks!

[burnodo]

33. Who said that?

I'd say "Obama and Cruz both have birth certificates...Obama was born in the US and Cruz was born in Canada."

[Dr Hobbitstein]

34. Did I miss something?

I thought the Birther movement was dead in the water... Or is this another case of:

[noamnety]

36. Sadly, it's not dead.

My republican coworker brought it up with me this spring again. I don't even have it in me to engage. I have to just look at him with a "wtf, dude, seriously?" face and walk away.

[mimi85]

42. Exactly!

We were through with this BS a long time ago. Let's not bring it up again. There are far more important things going on. Cruz wouldn't have a chance anyway no matter if he was born in downtown Chicago!

Please, let it go!!

[Dr Hobbitstein]

43. Oh! Ted Cruz brought something up...

All I saw was the OP with no links to what I may have missed. I really need to auto-hide the Snowden/Greenwald stuff so I can actually get some news here... Guilty pleasures, reading through that stuff, however.

[ejpoeta]

60. my HUSBAND of all people brought it up to me.

his argument was that the scanned document on the white house website had layers. We got into a big argument about it because I told him it was bullshit and obama was born in Hawaii. I went to snopes and showed him their thing about the layers on the birth certificate. I don't know where he got this shit.... if it was from my glen beck watching brother (who bought a Roku just so he could watch glen beck) or what, but I was so mad that my husband would even go for that crap.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. Just to play devil's advocate........

Nah, I'm just kidding.

[demwing]

81. with fire and venom

in my heart, I clicked on your post.

Well played HBS. Well played.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

82. Tee hee

[ileus]

37. I thought 5 0 meant cop.

[PCIntern]

41. Actually, it is the size of the surgical thread: 5-0. nt

[whopis01]

45. Calling cops 5-0 is reference to the show

The show was named that in honor of Hawaii being the 50th state. It led to cops being called 5-0 later on.

[ileus]

46. Now that's funny....

It was my favorite show at the time as a kid.

[Deacon Blue]

50. Book'em, Danno

[tularetom]

38. That was a good post. It was a GREAT post until you inserted a quote

from the worst movie Mel Brooks ever made.

John Candy as a wookie. Sheesh.

[PCIntern]

39. It was a great film from certain perspectives.

I happen to possess a few of those perspectives. Sorry.

[CRH]

44. OK, so he was borne here, what say you as to why, ...

he is selling us down the river on chained CPI for Social Security and civil rights the NSA doesn't seem to recognize? You want to protect the President's image, ask him to support the people who elected him.

[Snake Plissken]

47. So basically according to GOPers Cruz is a Muslim Terrorist from Canada

[arcane1]

53. Raised by an anti-colonial Cuban radical.

[spanone]

48. k&r...

[mysuzuki2]

49. I don't know all the legalities involved with being a US citizen born abroad.

But as far as I'm concerned that isn't what makes Cruz unqualified to be president. It is because he is a moron!

[jberryhill]

52. Now I see where your daughter got it from....

[kentuck]

54. Donald Fucking Trump has been sort of silent...

[quakerboy]

55. Obama was born here in the USA

That fact alone makes him a citizen, by our rules.
His mother was a citizen. That alone would also make him a citizen, by our rules.

There are arguments to be made about what "natural born" means, I suppose. We probably ought to nail that down, specifically, legally, one of these days, so there's no more question to be had.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. Cruz has a father of a communist regime

well....

[dreamnightwind]

59. LMSO

Recently saw Spaceballs, laughing my schwartz off.

I think evil wins by being more aggressive. It has no principles, just aggressively pursues its perceived self-interest.

The right-wing made a huge push to get rid of the domestic birth requirement when they were positioning Schwartz(!!!)enegger to be POTUS. They lost that push, and since he was found to have been schwartzing his maid for years (not sure that was the reason, but had to get it in there), they lost interest in running him for POTUS.

I didn't rec this OP, because it took the wrong message from Spaceballs, and because I think this is a better example of why we lose:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/aug/20/ted-cruz-born-canada-eligible-run-president/

We also looked at the case of John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone because his American father served in the military. McCain, the 2008 GOP nominee, saw his standing briefly challenged in court.

Interestingly, both of McCain’s potential Democratic opponents -- Obama and then-Sen. Hillary Clinton -- co-sponsored Senate legislation to settle McCain’s eligibility. The April 2008 resolution said, "John Sidney McCain, III, is a ‘natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States."

So, we lost that one, at least in part, because the two Democratic Senators most likely to be effected by the issue unilaterally conceded the question. Sound familiar? It makes little sense to berate DU'ers for a willingness to entertain hypotheticals when the people we're supporting aren't even fighting the fight we're supposedly helping them win. And that is why we lose. The people wearing our team's uniforms are schwartzing the game, so they can secure their membership in the money-and-power party.

[B Calm]

61. Republicans know if they keep repeating a lie over an over

their dimwitted base will believe it!

[Mosaic]

62. Attacking Latinos isn't very Liberal

The OP is insane. I may not agree with his republican principles, but I DO NOT HATE HIS ETHNICITY OR COLOR! Liberals, fake DU liberals, hate him for that, not me! I am color blind, ethnicity blind, a true liberal! Don't pretend otherwise, I've seen it countless times here and other fake Democratic boards.

[madokie]

63. Spot on

I'm happy to add the 158th rec to this

[davidpdx]

64. As low as Republicans have stooped accusing Obama of not being American

My opinion is not to touch it either way. The far right wing nuts will do a wonderful job of making claims about Cruz. The Democratic Party and those in it should completely stay out of it. Let them shoot themselves in the foot. I'm sure the media will help them.

[rtracey]

65. time to relax

The statement "Even if Obama were born in Kenya..." is really a two sided win for President Obama... 1. birthers claimed he was born in Kenya, and was not eligible to be president because of "natural born citizen".....ok proven wrong, born in Hawaii, and 2. the statement "Even if Obama were born in Kenya..."....according to the right wing who claim Cruz (born in Canada) is natural because mommy was American, just threw the birthers under the bus forever. That statement alone, just destroyed the birther movement completely.... Now is the time for all Democrats to get the vote out in 2014 and 2016, and begin to get this country to work again..not step in the dog shit of birtherism...

[heaven05]

69. I agree

on getting the vote solidified for Democrats in 2015-16. Yet a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the american voting bloc has consistently voted against their own self interest and will continue to spread the shit on their shoes like the issue of birtherism among many others.. Educating them on the issues fails because THEY DO NOT want to be educated. This birtherism crap is a perfect example. Arizona, Texas, Florida has majorities that care nothing about facts just hate for anything 'other' than their RW extremist, jaundiced MAJORITY views on race, women's issues, health care and the list is long. How then do we educate this bloc of voters to vote the facts and not RW, Faux news, rush limpdog talking point? Tell me that! There are many enlightened Democrats working for our voting bloc, yet there are also many unenlightened, uneducated RW voters to continually give movement to the right wing LIES like this birther crap. 47% voted for romshit. nuff said on that. Given that america is peopled by many uneducated and backward people who prefer to be led we have many generations to go before we can eradicate stupidity, ignorance and the money it takes to continually drive these purposefully ignorant voters from our ranks and the voting booths. I'll vote but that will not educate the 47%. They prefer Faux news education and want nothing else to get in the way of their uninformed and ignorant views. I am afraid for america.

[seabeyond]

67. perfectly said and agree. on my issues, cannot allow any shifting into lie or myth

and there are many, ... or it becomes fact. no.

[Avalux]

68. Good isn't dumb; good is naive.

The tactics that Republicans use are unfathomable to decent people; our minds just don't work that way.

But this is what they always do - repeat a lie over and over and over and it eventually becomes accepted as truth. Especially when the media doesn't call them on it and worse - promotes the lie.

[rl6214]

71. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU YELLING ABOUT?

Take a breath, take the caps lock off and explain yourself.

[DissidentVoice]

74. My niece was born in Hawaii in 1968

And she has never been anything but a United States Citizen.

[DesertRat]

75. Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!!!

[jberryhill]

76. Maybe, dammit, Maybe!

[elleng]

77. More like, because Good is NICE!

[backscatter712]

78. K&R! There is zero legitimacy for those disputing the facts of Obama's birth & citizenship.

Obama was born in Hawaii, and he provided hard evidence to back that fact up multiple times.

As far as Cruz goes, I'm game for some payback after all the birfer harassment.

To paraphrase LBJ, I don't care if Cruz's citizenship issues are true or not, I just want to hear the son-of-a-bitch deny it!

[gopiscrap]

79. Yeah I agree!