NIDA denies marijuana is less toxic than alcohol

[RainDog]

The National Institute on Drug Abuse released an eyebrow-raising statement to PolitiFact on Monday, denying that marijuana is less toxic than alcohol.

"Claiming that marijuana is less toxic than alcohol cannot be substantiated since each possess their own unique set of risks and consequences for a given individual," wrote the institute. NIDA, part of the National Institutes of Health, funds government-backed scientific research and has a stated mission "to lead the nation in bringing the power of science to bear on drug abuse and addiction."

The statement was in response to a declaration by the pro-pot policy group Marijuana Policy Project that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol –- a claim that was the centerpiece of a controversial pro-marijuana commercial aired during a NASCAR race last month.

PolitiFact took the claim to task, comparing marijuana-related deaths to alcohol-related deaths and toxicity levels of the two substances.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/marijuana-less-toxic-alcohol_n_3782100.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

PolitiFact had this to say:

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/aug/19/marijuana-policy-project/pro-pot-group-claims-marijuana-less-toxic-alcohol/

An ad from the Marijuana Policy Project claims marijuana is "less toxic" than alcohol.

Our job as fact-checkers in this case is not to decide whether marijuana is good or harmful. We're focused on whether the drug in its natural form is "less toxic" than alcohol.

In that regard, science and statistics present a strong case:

Deaths or even trips to the hospital are much more likely due to alcohol;
Scientists could not find any documented deaths from smoking marijuana;
A study found the safety ratio for marijuana (the number of doses to cause death) is much greater than compared to alcohol. Put another way, marijuana is 100 times less toxic than alcohol.

Overall, we rate this claim Mostly True.

So, once again, the NIDA lies to the American people about cannabis. This isn't the first time.

If your agency had to lie to support policy, maybe your agency shouldn't get funding for that policy.

By continuing current policy and supporting it by lies, it would also be true that the NIDA is more toxic than marijuana.

[Comrade Grumpy]

1. This is your brain on propaganda. Nora Volkow is little more than a witch doctor.

[RainDog]

2. Incredible to see

Outright lies to support policy that the American people do not want.

I could not, in good conscience, tell anyone to trust anything the NIDA has to say, considering their pattern of lies. They harm the American people by dealing in propaganda rather than fact.

[Rex]

3. Hell they got to keep their jobs folks!

Just look at the poor old DEA...now having to resort to illegally obtaining information on citizens, crimes going down down down and people got to keep their careers here! Got to find new crimes to keep a paycheck!

[RainDog]

8. And Bloomberg wants to keep targeting blacks and hispanics

via stop and frisk in NYC.

Even when evidence indicates his policy is racist, he doesn't care. it fluffs arrest stats for the PD.

I am thoroughly disgusted with those in power at this time - for many reasons - this is just one - but this one is simply out-and-out lying to protect someone's tax cash cow - at the expense of people who are doing no harm to others.

makes me want to

[Rex]

12. Hey when you got your own army and proclaim it to everyone

and people just go, 'gee that is nice'...what do you expect to happen? He is the Duke of NYC! I agree my disgust for some in power has reached an all time high. Like some certain GOPuker governors.

I saw Rudy "9/11" on TVEE the other day and you know what he was talking about? Yeah...9/11...he was there and saved everyone. I wanted to throw the TVEE out the window. I hate that guy.

[RainDog]

16. The govt. has lost credibility on this issue

Worthless, worthless words from politicians and bureaucrats.

Wasted money, time and, most of all, lives by continuing this policy of harassment and arrest.

The war on drugs is why America has more prisoners than it ever had slaves. The war on drugs is neo-slavery.

[RainDog]

4. More lies from the NIDA regarding cannabis

Last edited Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)

I posted this earlier in the month

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

After alcohol, marijuana has the highest rate of dependence or abuse among all drugs. In 2011, 4.2 million Americans met clinical criteria for dependence or abuse of marijuana in the past year—more than twice the number for dependence/abuse of prescription pain relievers (1.8 million) and four times the number for dependence/abuse of cocaine (821,000).

Hmmmm. The reality is that cannabis is one of the least addictive substances. Why lie, NIDA? Need to pump up the fear to milk the tax cash cow? Doing the work for the drug cartels to keep the U.S. safe for their product?

Below, the NIDA plays with numbers to state something that is statistically nothing, is a something.

Illicit drug use in America has been increasing. In 2011, an estimated 22.5 million Americans aged 12 or older—or 8.7 percent of the population—had used an illicit drug or abused a psychotherapeutic medication (such as a pain reliever, stimulant, or tranquilizer) in the past month. This is up from 8.3 percent in 2002. The increase mostly reflects a recent rise in the use of marijuana, the most commonly used illicit drug.

So, a 0.4% increase is meaningful in a time when more people can actually be open about their cannabis use because of the recent relaxation in laws regarding use? Really? EDIT to correct: 0.4% not 0.04%

It seems the big news is that drug abuse is, in fact, fairly flat over time, while drug use may fluctuate somewhat - but it's not as though we suddenly have epidemics of addicts. But that didn't stop the NIDA from starting their page with this scare line:

"Illicit drug use in America has been increasing."

oh, but wait... there's more to that story...

Use of most drugs other than marijuana has not changed appreciably over the past decade or has declined. In 2011, 6.1 million Americans aged 12 or older (or 2.4 percent) had used psycho-therapeutic prescription drugs nonmedically (without a prescription or in a manner or for a purpose not prescribed) in the past month—a decrease from 2010. And 972,000 Americans (0.4 percent) had used hallucinogens (a category that includes Ecstasy and LSD) in the past month—a decline from 2010.

Cocaine use has gone down in the last few years; from 2006 to 2011, the number of current users aged 12 or older dropped from 2.4 million to 1.4 million. Methamphetamine use has also dropped, from 731,000 current users in 2006 to 439,000 in 2011.

So, the reality is that drug use has declined, overall. Drug addiction has remained steady for decades (i.e. this would indicate drug addiction is a medical issue, not a social one) and use of the least harmful of all recreational drugs, cannabis, has increased as states have modified their laws to remove some of the stigma for those who choose to use cannabis instead of alcohol, etc.

[Dreamer Tatum]

7. I think you mean "disagree" instead of "lie"

you might be more effective in your rhetoric if you evinced disagreement with evidence.

[RainDog]

9. They are lying

They are not disagreeing. They are lying.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. Well, that settles it, then!

[RainDog]

15. If you read the information, it shows they are lying

The NIDA claimed -

After alcohol, marijuana has the highest rate of dependence or abuse among all drugs.

This is a lie. I demonstrated this lie by posting the graph, one of many available, btw, all of which show that marijuana is one of the least dependency-producing substances classified as a drug.

Do you not understand how to read the information presented?

This is not a disagreement. This is propaganda that deals in lies.

[Warren Stupidity]

48. it is even worse than that: the pot "dependency" numbers are driven by

forcing pot offenders into "treatment" programs. Having forced them to take treatment they then can be declared "dependent". If they just left pot smokers alone to begin with, those numbers would fall off the chart.

[RainDog]

50. The NIDA is engaging in the most repulsive sort of propaganda

I'm sure they tell themselves they can justify that statement by their definition of abuse (based upon simple use, not actual abuse), which they linked to the lie about dependency.

This is why they are anti-science, when the issue is cannabis.

Amazingly, one of the most important bureaucracies related to scientific information for Americans is one of the least scientifically truthful - at least on this topic.

[antiquie]

51. Especially true in the 18-25 age group.

Get "cured" or have a record.

[RainDog]

58. Yes. Those who choose rehab over jail

according to the study linked below from norml about this issue, note that 16%, iirc, had not used marijuana AT ALL in the month prior to entering rehab, while more than 30% had consumed pot no more than 3 times.

This is not the action of someone who is physiologically addicted to a substance.

This prohibition weakens trust in American institutions and creates a climate of disrespect for law when such bad law is allowed to stand.

[RainDog]

22. Since I provided evidence

in the post to which you responded - would you like to admit that you were wrong and did not understand the information presented, or do you prefer to continue to believe your incorrect assessment?

Just asking.

[Logical]

53. Raindog gave you evidence. Waiting on you. n-t

[RainDog]

62. I'm not expecting a reply n/t

[Logical]

63. Me either. Typical. n-t

[ProfessorGAC]

23. It's 0.4% not 0.04%

That's 1.3 million people. I don't have the entire data set but that sounds like it could be statistically significant to me.

The rest i agree with, since i don't support NIDA in any way, shape or form.
GAC

[RainDog]

24. corrected. thanks.

The context of this is within increasing numbers of states that have made medical marijuana legal, and with decriminalized marijuana in CA since 2011.

I would also wonder how many people are more honest in surveys of use as states make it potentially less dangerous to tell the truth.

[TeamPooka]

5. Lies, big lies and damn lies. Prohibition is a failed public policy...again.

[Scuba]

6. A perfect tactic for destroying any of their remaining credibility.

[Avalux]

11. How many deaths per year can be attributed to marijuana abuse?

ZERO.

Obviously, NIDA's agenda is not based on facts.

[RainDog]

19. Drug war facts: deaths from marijuana = zero

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30#sthash.PEb2Gq9c.dpbs

"Indeed, epidemiological data indicate that in the general population marijuana use is not associated with increased mortality."

Source: Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A Benson, Jr., "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999), p. 109.
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309071550&page=109
- See more at: http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30#sthash.PEb2Gq9c.bB4qisfz.dpuf

[kestrel91316]

28. There is also absolutely NO evidence that it carries an increased risk of any disease.

And we all know that it causes far fewer car accidents, injuries, and fatalities. Like 99.9999% fewer.

[Avalux]

29. And - it's not physically addictive.

A person could smoke it every day all day for years and stop cold turkey without any physical withdrawal symptoms. They may want it psychologically, but physiologically - nothing.

[RainDog]

30. It does have some physical addiction symptoms

If someone uses cannabis A LOT and stops, some people go through a few days of irritability, from what I have read.

It is like caffeine in this regard, tho its properties are not.

The estimate is that 9% of users demonstrate dependence.

In Gupta's segments on cannabis on CNN, the person he interviewed about addiction noted that it wasn't like a dangerous drug, such as alcohol or cocaine, etc. in terms of withdrawal (alcohol withdrawal can kill). But she noted it did create symptoms for some that are analogous to withdrawal from coffee.

[kestrel91316]

33. I'm totally addicted to my teensy little dose at bedtime, lol. Because I LIKE sleeping well

at night and not being in pain. Yep - totally hooked.

[RainDog]

34. It's hard to get valid stats about dependence

Since people plea bargain and agree to go into rehab rather than prison.

So, marijuana arrests drive people to treatment to avoid harsher sentences, which drives up numbers about any possible dependence. It's the arrest, not the substance, in other words, that is creating the statistics for dependence too often.

http://blog.norml.org/2010/05/24/marijuana-arrests-continue-to-drive-drug-treatment-boom/

Nearly six out of ten people admitted to drug ‘treatment’ for marijuana are referred there by the criminal justice system, according to a just-released report by the US Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Association (SAMHSA).

...By contrast, criminal justice referrals accounted for just 37 percent of the overall total of drug treatment admissions in 2008.

Since 1998 the percentage of individuals in drug treatment primarily for marijuana has risen approximately 25 percent, the report found. This increase is being primarily driven by a proportional rise in the percentage of criminal justice referrals. According to a previous federal study, the proportion of marijuana treatment admissions from all sources other than the criminal justice system has been declining since the mid-1990s.

Commenting on the study, NORML Deputy Director Paul Armentano said: “These statistics make it clear that it is not marijuana use per se that is driving these treatment admission rates; it is marijuana prohibition that is primarily responsible. These people for the most part are not ‘addicts’ in any true sense of the word. Rather, they are ordinary Americans who have experienced the misfortune of being busted for marijuana who are forced to choose between rehab or jail.”

[olddots]

13. I think the people at NIDA are sniffing too much glue

n.t.

[bunnies]

14. Liars. Stop fucking lying.

We know the truth. You dont like it? Tough shit.

[RainDog]

17. I'm sick of this shit. n/t

[burnodo]

18. When any government institution can lie so readily...

isn't it a given that other institutions can lie just as easily?

[RainDog]

20. The govt. destroys its own credibility

with this and other issues.

More than three-quarters of a million arrests for simple possession in 2012.

This is your govt. on a drug called money.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

21. I've lost 5 close friends to marijuana overdoses

...said no one ever in the entire history of humanity.

[Egalitarian Thug]

41. ?

[Warren Stupidity]

49. On the other hand I've know four people killed by alcohol (drunk driving).

Oh, and speaking of which, legalization lowers traffic fatality rates, at least over the short term (5 years), something else the NIDA doesn't want to talk about.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. You don't even need to get behind the wheel. Enough booze will kill a human anyway.

And I've nursed alcoholics through extreme DTs, which can be life-threatening as well.

To try to compare what marijuana does- physiologically- to that is a fucking joke.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

60. Agreed. That was the point I didn't do a great job of making. n/t

[Warpy]

25. They're protecting their little fiefdom

those little Emperors in all their new clothes.

Unfortunately, the word is getting out and most people have noticed they're strutting around naked, stripped of anything but lip service to their propaganda.

They've lost most of the cops outside NYC. That should be the clearest sign they need to give up that particular fight.

[RainDog]

26. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP)

is a great organization.

I don't know if most cops are on board with them, but it's obvious that many current and former LEOs are tired of the current prohibition too.

[kestrel91316]

27. While that may be true ounce for ounce, lol, that's not how cannabis is used by anyone I know.

[RainDog]

32. The govt. has known there is no valid toxicity level

for a long time.

THEY NOTED that marijuana is, basically, non-toxic in the DEA's Shafer Commission Report that recommended decriminalization during the Nixon administration (which he promptly ignored.)

Someone would have to consume 1,500 pounds of Cannabis Sativa within 15 minutes to reach a toxic level, according to lab studies. This is physically impossible unless someone created a concentrated liquid they could drink... and, since that's not how cannabis is consumed... the reality is that cannabis is non-toxic by reasonable standards of usage.

[kestrel91316]

36. I make an alcohol tincture for when I run out of brownies, but it only uses

1 c of crushed bud per cup of vodka. You'd die of alcohol toxicity long before you got enough THC to do harm.

[RainDog]

39. why not just make a butter?

I have nothing against vodka, per se, mind you. It's one of the few alcoholic bevs I drink, when I do (with cranberry juice and triple sec) - but I've seen videos of epileptics who make canna butter and just keep it on hand and spread it on toast.

how long does it take to make a tincture? or what's the process, I suppose, is a better question.

[kestrel91316]

45. I make oil with it (I'm not currently eating animal products).

Usually canola with a little hempseed oil, ground bud simmered in it with equal parts water, crockpot works great. Brownie mixes usually call for oil.

TINCTURE:

1 c. crushed dried cannabis (can use trimmings or good stuff or whatever. 1 c. vodka. Put it in a glass jar and screw lid on tight. Shake to blend so the cannabis is all wetted. Stick in a dark cabinet for a month or two. Pour through coffee filter or just several layers of cheesecloth, or even some muslin. Store in jar in dark place.

2 tsp in a drinking glass. 1-2 tsp sugar. Couple tablespoons of water. Stir to dissolve sugar. Drink up! A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, as Mary Poppins said. This is a great sleep aid and nighttime pain reliever. I get a solid 6 hours every time, snooze another hour or so, and wake up refreshed.

[DefenseLawyer]

31. Hey where all the white women at?

[RainDog]

35. LOL. Are you a jazz musician?

[Iggo]

65. Oh shit!

[spanone]

37. reefer madness...it may NEVER go away.

[RainDog]

38. Money can make people do strange things

like lie when they claim they represent scientific information.

I hope some scientists who have done work in this area will respond to the NIDA's lies, too.

[RainDog]

40. Prof. Emeritus in Psychology: Marijuana 100 time safer

Robert Graber, Prof. Emeritus in Psychology did a decade-long research project that compared the relative risk of 20 different recreational substances.

Based on my research, the safety margin of recreational substances as normally used is: 6 for heroin; 10 for alcohol; 15 for cocaine; 16 for MDMA; 20 for codeine; and 1,000 for LSD or marijuana. Cigarettes have little immediate risk of death because most of the very lethal nicotine is destroyed in the smoke. The long-term risk of addiction and cancer from cigarettes is well known.

No drug is good for teenagers. But when it comes to the chances of immediate death by chemical toxicity, marijuana is about a hundred times safer than alcohol or cocaine.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/12/19/should-teenagers-get-high-instead-of-drunk/marijuana-is-far-less-toxic-than-alcohol-or-cocaine

[RainDog]

42. Prof. of Neuroscience and Medical Genetics

Gary L. Wenk, Ph.D., is a Professor of Psychology & Neuroscience & Molecular Virology, Immunology and Medical Genetics at the Ohio State University. Here's what he has to say about the differences between alcohol consumption and marijuana.

Short version: alcohol inhibits neurogenesis. Cannabis promotes neurogenesis.

Neurogenesis the the creation of new brain cells that promote mental functions.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-brain-food/201012/alcohol-vs-marijuana-in-the-brain

[RainDog]

43. Here's a link to a series of peer-reviewed scientific studies

that demonstrate the NIDA is engaging in propaganda, not fact.

http://archive.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

Many people die from alcohol use. Nobody dies from marijuana use. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that more than 37,000 annual U.S. deaths, including more than 1,400 in Colorado, are attributed to alcohol use alone (i.e. this figure does not include accidental deaths). On the other hand, the CDC does not even have a category for deaths caused by the use of marijuana.

People die from alcohol overdoses. There has never been a fatal marijuana overdose. The official publication of the Scientific Research Society, American Scientist, reported that alcohol is one of the most toxic drugs and using just 10 times what one would use to get the desired effect could lead to death. Marijuana is one of – if not the – least toxic drugs, requiring thousands of times the dose one would use to get the desired effect to lead to death. This “thousands of times” is actually theoretical, since there has never been a case of an individual dying from a marijuana overdose. Meanwhile, according to the CDC, hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths occur the United States each year.

The health-related costs associated with alcohol use far exceed those for marijuana use. Health-related costs for alcohol consumers are eight times greater than those for marijuana consumers, according to an assessment recently published in the British Columbia Mental Health and Addictions Journal. More specifically, the annual cost of alcohol consumption is $165 per user, compared to just $20 per user for marijuana. This should not come as a surprise given the vast amount of research that shows alcohol poses far more – and more significant – health problems than marijuana.

Alcohol use damages the brain. Marijuana use does not. Despite the myths we've heard throughout our lives about marijuana killing brain cells, it turns out that a growing number of studies seem to indicate that marijuana actually has neuroprotective properties. This means that it works to protect brain cells from harm. For example, one recent study found that teens who used marijuana as well as alcohol suffered significantly less damage to the white matter in their brains. Of course, what is beyond question is that alcohol damages brain cells.

more at the link...

The NIDA should be ashamed of itself for promoting such bullshit while claiming they care about science.

[RainDog]

46. yeah, pretty shameful

but at least the NIDA is making it absolutely clear that they have little concern for science.

they function as a ministry of propaganda to extort money from taxpayers, lock up citizens for victimless crimes, and punish minorities.

this is blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't a fucking idiot™

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Lies like this are a danger to those who are being told alcohol is not very toxic by an agenda

drive batch of ignorant superstition mongers. This is a shameful display of prideful stupidity that is fairly definitive of the Obama era and of his philosophy which is 'faith based' and tends to dismiss fact and science and sinful.
How low can they go, telling children that a fifth of Vodka is not toxic? How many lives lost to alcohol each day and year, while they claim it is super safe stuff?
They should be jailed for endangering the public. Seems to me they are on the take from Big Liquor.

[Nye Bevan]

54. How many people have died of marijuana poisoning,

following an all-night marijuana smoking session?

[RainDog]

55. zero n/t

[indepat]

56. Surely NIDA would not blatantly lie, distort, or dissemble to the American

people. Surely NIDA would not shamelessly prevaricate!

[RainDog]

59. I think their rationale for lying is similar to Nixon

Nixon opposed decriminalization, even after his own commission supported it, because of the "slippery slope" argument that legalization marijuana would lead to legalization of other, more potent and potentially harmful drugs.

Such a position ignores the reality that alcohol, legally available demonstrates that removing a substance from the criminal subculture also removes it from people who purchase that product but not others.

In other words - by keeping marijuana illegal, our govt. makes it more likely that someone who is only interested in marijuana would have exposure to other drugs, like meth.

My opinion is that all drugs should be decriminalized and addicts should be treated as people with a health problem, not a criminal problem. I base that opinion on the decades-long experiment with decriminalization in Portugal.

The costs of dealing with addiction have gone down since Portugal changed their policy - and some of the reasons have to with side issues - such as providing clean needles and health care and controlling distribution that is made available outside of the criminal subculture. Rates of infection by HIV have dropped dramatically. The cost of treatment for such a problem is huge.

The use of harder drugs has been reduced, as well, which demonstrates the exact opposite of Nixon's assumption about decriminalization.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g9C6x99EnFVdFuXw_B8pvDRzLqcA

"There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal," said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.

The number of addicts considered "problematic" -- those who repeatedly use "hard" drugs and intravenous users -- had fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the figure was estimated at around 100,000 people, Goulao said. Other factors had also played their part however, Goulao, a medical doctor added.

"This development can not only be attributed to decriminalisation but to a confluence of treatment and risk reduction policies."

Portugal's holistic approach had also led to a "spectacular" reduction in the number of infections among intravenous users and a significant drop in drug-related crimes, he added.

[indepat]

64. Sadly criminalization of marijuana and incarceration of those users not having resources to hire

an adequate defense team fits the right-wing agenda, goal, and vision for America. The societal harm and damage perpetrated by this policy is incalculable but monstrously enormous.

[RainDog]

66. American society seems driven by fear

too often.

fear is a useful tool for the powerful.

[Warpy]

57. They just want to keep their jobs.

Pretending that drugs are bad and all people are weaklings and marijuana is just as bad as heroin is how they keep them.

[Blue Owl]

61. Fuck you NIDA

Twice on Sunday.