The Real, Terrifying Reason Why British Authorities Detained David Miranda

[xchrom]

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/the-real-terrifying-reason-why-british-authorities-detained-david-miranda/278952/


The scariest explanation of all? That the NSA and GCHQ are just showing they don't want to be messed with.

Last Sunday, David Miranda was detained while changing planes at London Heathrow Airport by British authorities for nine hours under a controversial British law -- the maximum time allowable without making an arrest. There has been much made of the fact that he's the partner of Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian reporter whom Edward Snowden trusted with many of his NSA documents and the most prolific reporter of the surveillance abuses disclosed in those documents. There's less discussion of what I feel was the real reason for Miranda's detention. He was ferrying documents between Greenwald and Laura Poitras, a filmmaker and his co-reporter on Snowden and his information. These document were on several USB memory sticks he had with him. He had already carried documents from Greenwald in Rio de Janeiro to Poitras in Berlin, and was on his way back with different documents when he was detained.

The memory sticks were encrypted, of course, and Miranda did not know the key. This didn't stop the British authorities from repeatedly asking for the key, and from confiscating the memory sticks along with his other electronics.

The incident prompted a major outcry in the U.K. The U.K.'s Terrorist Act has always been controversial, and this clear misuse -- it was intended to give authorities the right to detain and question suspected terrorists -- is prompting new calls for its review. Certainly the U.K. police will be more reluctant to misuse the law again in this manner.

I have to admit this story has me puzzled. Why would the British do something like this? What did they hope to gain, and why did they think it worth the cost? And -- of course -- were the British acting on their own under the Official Secrets Act, or were they acting on behalf of the United States? (My initial assumption was that they were acting on behalf of the U.S., but after the bizarre story of the British GCHQ demanding the destruction of Guardian computers last month, I'm not sure anymore.)

[LearningCurve]

1. My guess

And it's just a guess, is that they were really after the documents. My working theory is that the NSA really has no idea what Snowden copied, and the NSA wants to find out something fierce.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Your working theory is correct

Two days ago they admitted they have no clue see Issikoff here.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/20/20108770-us-doesnt-know-what-snowden-took-sources-say?lite

[reusrename]

29. If they weren't doin' anything wrong, what are they worried about?

I'm thinking they are pleading ignorance in order to avoid having to answer questions posed by the public and the oversight groups. They won't admit anything, even after they are caught lying to Congress.

[Egnever]

30. Good lord

The NSA is tasked with foreign intelligence. You cant think of why they wouldn't want information on that exposed?

[reusrename]

31. What I can't imagine is them not knowing what information he has.

Do you think that makes any sense? Of course they know what he had access to. Otherwise what would they be afraid of? That he'll tip off al Qaeda? Seriously? How ridiculous can this get?

[Whisp]

32. if someone copied stuff off your system...

when you weren't there

would you know what was taken?

[reusrename]

33. Obviously the universe of data would be limited to my computer.

I doubt that they would find the nuclear launch codes on my machine. Of course, if he did have access to the launch codes then I can easily understand why they would deny that they know anything about what he was looking at.

[Whisp]

35. I don't think you understood...

If someone copied files off your system and you were not aware that was happening, would you be able to tell if they took the Ishtar movie file, or the Barney song or your recipe for Crow?

Which did the thief pick and choose to make copies of and how could you tell?

[reusrename]

36. Oh, I understand alright. I just don't fall for the con job.

How would someone stealing Ishtar or the Barney song mean that we are all going to die at the hands of the terrorists?

See, there has to be something worth protecting, correct? What is it, exactly?

Well we cannot possibly know what the DANGER is, only that it's DANGER DANGER DANGER!

Could it be the simple fact that WE are the targets, and not the terrorists?

[snappyturtle]

2. It makes as much sense as anything else being given for a

reason. I think they're hoping the fear factor will settle in and
keep journalists very afraid.

[HardTimes99]

6. Everyone seems to have forgotten (or moved beyond) the spying scandals involving the

AP and Fox' James Rosen. But Jane Mayer, writing for The New Yorker, alleged that investigative journalism involving the feds has all but come to a screeching halt, as journalists fear for thier personal safety, and their erstwhile sources fear getting Manning-ized by the National Security State.

Don't have a link handy - from about a month ago, IIRC.

[snappyturtle]

8. True....and rightfully so...the journalists' concerns. Not good. Thanks. nt

[PDJane]

3. The documents are not the issue.

Those documents are mirrored all over the place, and finding them all will be an impossible job. Barring that, they want to intimidate anyone who might know where some of the mirroring has taken place. The government of the USA is not above murder to keep secrets quiet and keep the system working for the fascists and the oligarchy.

[Supersedeas]

37. yep

[Uncle Joe]

4. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, xchrom.

[FarCenter]

5. Depending on a lot of things, GCHQ and NSA may be able to decrypt the documents.

While Snowden could probably get things right, its not clear that a film producer and a lawyer have the same expertise and diligence.

[Hydra]

7. It may not matter

The NSA's supercomputer may be online now. Theoretically it should be impossible for them to brute force 256 bit in any reasonable amount of time, but if I can see how it could be done they probably already have it.

[FarCenter]

12. There are too many 256-bit keys for a feasible brute force attack

115,792,089,237,316,195,423,570,985,008,687,907,853,269,984,665,640,564,039,457,584,007,913,129,639,936 of them, to be exact.

[Hydra]

13. Believe me, I know

Last edited Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

But with this in mind:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-celebrates-new-high-performance-computing-center-opening_735141.html

How much faster is the secret one? Jaguar clocked in a 1.75 petaflops while the secret was said to clock in at above 40. Should we just go for the same 20x ratio and assume they are getting close to an Exobyte setup?

At some point, they're going to be able to brute it seamlessly.

[FarCenter]

21. Not with computers made of transistors

The numbers of keys are billions of times the number of atoms in the earth.

[msanthrope]

9. No--I suspect that they are doing it because they are moving against Poitras. nt

[Aerows]

15. Are you in favor of them moving against Poitras? n/t

[NealK]

11. K&R

Yes, Mafia style intimidation. That's beyond creepy.

[starroute]

14. As so often when events are obscure, Dylan lyrics come to mind

The Times They Are A-Changin' was recorded in October 1963 -- an incredible 50 years ago -- and like so much of Dylan's earliest work, it's starting to seem not just insightful but scarily prophetic.

Come gather around people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth saving
Then you better start swimming or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changing

Come writers and critics
Who prophesy with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no telling who that it’s naming
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a-changing

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside and it is raging
It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changing

[azurnoir]

20. for me it's Buffalo Springfield who's words become more true as time goes on

There's somethin' happenin' here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun, over there
Tellin' me I got to beware

(I think it's time we)
Stop, children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's goin' down?

There's battle lines bein' drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speakin' their minds
Gettin' so much resistance from behind

(It's time we)
Stop, hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's goin' down?

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singin' songs and carryin' signs
Mostly sayin', "hooray for our side"

(It's time we)
Stop, hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's goin' down?

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the man come and take you away

[starroute]

24. That too

I'm starting to think the 60s were just a rehearsal for the present moment. All the old unresolved issues are coming back round, all the old abuses and the paranoia, all the questions about how to create a genuinely open and human society.

There are a few differences in the balance -- race and gender issues are maybe closer to solutions, while environmental and class issues have gotten worse -- but the problems are still the same.

And the 1% has spend the last 40 years planning for how to keep the 60s from starting up again. We just have to hope they're fighting the last war -- and that we know how to fight the next one.

[snooper2]

16. Is the dude in the picture made up of a bunch of decapitated heads?

[leftstreet]

18. Faces - it's from Leviathan

After lengthy discussion with Hobbes, the Parisian Abraham Bosse created the etching for the book's famous frontispiece in the geometrico style which Bosse himself had refined. It is similar in organization to the frontispiece of Hobbes' De Cive (1642), created by Jean Matheus. The frontispiece has two main elements, of which the upper part is by far the most striking. In it, a giant crowned figure is seen emerging from the landscape, clutching a sword and a crosier, beneath a quote from the Book of Job—"Non est potestas Super Terram quae Comparetur ei. Iob. 41 . 24" ("There is no power on earth to be compared to him. Job 41 . 24&quot —linking the figure to the monster of that book. (Because of disagreement over where chapters begin, the verse Hobbes quotes is usually given as Job 41:33 in modern Christian translations into English, Job 41:25 in the Masoretic text, Septuagint, and the Luther Bible; it is 41:24 in the Vulgate.)

The torso and arms of the figure are composed of over three hundred persons, in the style of Giuseppe Arcimboldo; all are facing inwards with just the giant's head having visible features. (A manuscript of Leviathan created for Charles II in 1651 has notable differences – a different main head but significantly the body is also composed of many faces, all looking outwards from the body and with a range of expressions.) The lower portion is a triptych, framed in a wooden border. The centre form contains the title on an ornate curtain. The two sides reflect the sword and crosier of the main figure – earthly power on the left and the powers of the church on the right. Each side element reflects the equivalent power – castle to church, crown to mitre, cannon to excommunication, weapons to logic, and the battlefield to the religious courts. The giant holds the symbols of both sides, reflecting the union of secular and spiritual in the sovereign, but the construction of the torso also makes the figure the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_%28book%29

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. "Don't fuck with us or else. Do what we say or else."

Nice philosophy they've got there.

[AzDar]

19. K & R

[Octafish]

23. Who Rules Bartertown DC The City?

BFEE Rules.

[ljm2002]

25. Bravo Mr. Schneier!

The last paragraph reads:

Just this week, the Wall Street Journal reported on some new NSA secret programs that are spying on Americans. It got the information from "interviews with current and former intelligence and government officials and people from companies that help build or operate the systems, or provide data," not from Snowden. This is only the beginning. The media will not be intimidated. I will not be intimidated. But it scares me that the NSA is so blind that it doesn't see it.

K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. They and their American pals are losing and they're pissed and throwing a tantrum.

[dtom67]

27. it is ALL intimidation....

Shutting down whistle blowers,shutting down journalists, and shutting down protesters. Just let the government do what it wants! who the hell are YOU to concern yourself with what is going on?


Its all right in front of us; all you have to do is put down the pom poms.......

[Demeter]

28. Disgusting? Yes. Terrifying? Not so much

The War on Terror has pretty much desensitized us to anything except actual violence on our persons.

[reusrename]

34. The big secret is that there is no big secret.

Many of us know exactly what is up.

Zappa's curtain is being lifted as we speak.