David Miranda v UK Home Secretary: today’s hearing. Of course the Govt gets what it wants.

[Catherina]

Miranda v Home Secretary: today’s hearing and order

by Carl Gardner on August 22, 2013

...

The court has ordered that until a further hearing next Friday, August 30th, the government and the police may not inspect, copy, disclose, transfer, distribute (whether domestically within the UK or to any foreign government or agency) or otherwise interfere with the material obtained from David Miranda under Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000, save (1) for the purposes of protecting national security, including protecting lives and preventing the diminution of the UK’s national security capability; and (2) for the purposes of investigating whether David Miranda is or has been concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.

David Miranda’s solicitor today called that a “partial victory” – but if it is in any sense a victory, it’s only a small one. I’m not surprised she mentioned the possibility of appeal. In truth the government has got most of what it wanted, and has preserved its ability to inspect the material, to copy it and to share it with American intelligence agencies, so long as it’s acting “to protect national security”. The ability to use the material to prevent “the diminution of national security capability” also seems a very wide power to use the material to protect GCHQ’s policy aims and interests.

...

Steven Kovats QC, representing the Home Secretary, told the court that the material had already been inspected and that continuing inspection was needed. He accepted there was currently no evidence before the court supporting the “national security case” behind that claim, but said the government would be producing evidence as soon as possible, and that the balance of justice required it be given a chance to do so before an order is made preventing inspection. He disputed the contention that what was seized was “journalistic material” and argued that David Miranda can have no right to confidentiality in what he called stolen documents.

...

Jonathan Laidlaw QC, for the police, told the court that the material already inspected consisted of tens of thousand of pages, the disclosure of at least some of which would be “gravely injurious to public safety”. He argued that stopping inspection now would in effect be “final”, since it must be returned this weekend: there is no power to extend the 7 day examination period under Schedule 7, he said. He opposed any order narrowing the purposes of inspection – he said there was risk in doing so before the police had been able to examine all the material.

...

The police and government have lost the ability to inspect this material for criminal investigation purposes outside whatever’s necessary to determine whether David Miranda is concerned in “terrorism” within the meaning of the 2000 Act; and (interestingly without any argument in court today) they seem to have lost the ability to retain David Miranda’s things beyond the weekend if there are criminal proceedings. But they have most of what they wanted, and David Miranda got very little, really.

Had no injunction been sought and no undertakings been given, the “Miranda material” could have been inspected until Saturday night for the statutory purpose for which it was kept. It still can be, after today’s hearing. It can also be copied and shared with foreign agencies for national security purposes (with no apparent need to seek assurances about their use of copies of the material), and it seems any copy can continue to be worked on after the original material is returned. In some ways the government might even feel its powers to work on the material seem wider tonight then they did this morning.

http://www.headoflegal.com/2013/08/22/miranda-v-home-secretary-todays-hearing-and-order/

[msanthrope]

1. With the opening of the Scotland Yard criminal investigation, I suspect the

material will be kept beyond August 30th.

[Rex]

2. Producing evidence? My my my...

Quick! Make something up fast cuz the 'national security' crap won't fly for very long.

[Catherina]

3. Quite disgusting. They're the law & can make up the rules as they go & apply *facts* rectroactively

Like breaking into someone's home under false pretexts, not finding any drugs and telling the court just to give you more time. Stasi assholes.

[Rex]

4. It is clear the 'national security forces' of both nations are completely out of control.

I can understand being mad and not knowing what was stolen from the NSA and possibly the CIA, but going about it in such draconian fashion lets the populace know that laws are only for little people.

[Catherina]

5. It also confirms that what we've seen so far is the tip of the iceberg

This leaves one last possible explanation -- those in power were angry and impulsively acted on that anger. They're lashing out: sending a message and demonstrating that they're not to be messed with -- that the normal rules of polite conduct don't apply to people who screw with them. That's probably the scariest explanation of all. Both the U.S. and U.K. intelligence apparatuses have enormous money and power, and they have already demonstrated that they are willing to ignore their own laws. Once they start wielding that power unthinkingly, it could get really bad for everyone.

And it's not going to be good for them, either. They seem to want Snowden so badly that that they'll burn the world down to get him. But every time they act impulsively aggressive -- convincing the governments of Portugal and France to block the plane carrying the Bolivian president because they thought Snowden was on it is another example -- they lose a small amount of moral authority around the world, and some ability to act in the same way again. The more pressure Snowden feels, the more likely he is to give up on releasing the documents slowly and responsibly, and publish all of them at once -- the same way that WikiLeaks published the U.S. State Department cables.

Just this week, the Wall Street Journal reported on some new NSA secret programs that are spying on Americans. It got the information from "interviews with current and former intelligence and government officials and people from companies that help build or operate the systems, or provide data," not from Snowden. This is only the beginning. The media will not be intimidated. I will not be intimidated. But it scares me that the NSA is so blind that it doesn't see it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/the-real-terrifying-reason-why-british-authorities-detained-david-miranda/278952/

They seem to think that if they can just find out what dribs and drabs are coming next, they can jump in front of the growing scandal, stuff the genie back in the bottle and tell everyone to go back to sleep.

It doesn't work that way. Maybe it could if it hadn't been for illegal interventions into other countries affairs, drone killings, bankers, protecting criminals like Bush and Cheney but they blew it. That genie's never going back in the bottle.

[Rex]

6. I agree, by not prosecuting the war criminals when we had the chance

it let every wolf in the world know that the sheep are there for the taking. Free of charge and no penalty for numbers sacked.

[Catherina]

7. I gave what you wrote more thought while I was doing a chore

"lets the populace know that laws are only for little people".

You're absolutely right. The little, little people already knew that but now the media and the middle-class are getting it thrust in their face. Interesting times eh?

[Rex]

8. Yes. The smartest thing would have been for Clapper to tell the truth

in front of the world and Congress. Yet, since they stuck with their Cold War playbook it has become very apparent to the Have Nots just how little is left for them in this world.

The inequality in the laws are a real eye opener for the average person. Now the PTB can just label everything 'terrorism' and avoid needing any real proof.

Up until recently Big Brother was only a reality TVEE game show...until Snowden fled and Clapper lied. Now Big Brother is all over the place and we all know it now. Just ask the huge party of people under the bus for opening their mouths.