General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's time THIS flag and this symbol made their appearance on DU:
They are, respectively, the primary flag of the transgender rights movement and the main symbol of transgender identity.
Chelsea Manning(the person known to us until this morning as Bradley Manning)is now the most well-known person of transgender identity in this country. The cause of freeing Chelsea Manning is, therefore, now part of the larger struggle for transgender rights(a struggle all progressives and people of good will must take up)and the liberation of Chelsea Manning will now become a major goal in the struggle for transgender rights and the continuing struggle for human liberation.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)"The stripes at the top and bottom are light blue, the traditional color for baby boys. The stripes next to them are pink, the traditional color for baby girls. The stripe in the middle is white, for those who are intersex, transitioning or consider themselves having a neutral or undefined gender. The pattern is such that no matter which way you fly it, it is always correct, signifying us finding correctness in our lives"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_Pride_flag
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Here's a description of this design, from the same link as quoted above:
The colors on the flag are from top to bottom: red, light purple, medium purple, dark purple, and blue. The red and the blue represent male and female. The three purple stripes represent the diversity of the TG community and genders other than male and female. The flag is public domain.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)enigmatic
(15,021 posts)The Ying/Yang is a big part of my life. I love this one.
NealK
(1,788 posts)I'll put it in my signature line.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Which there has been a shit ton of today.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Transphobia is going to be the last "acceptable" form of bigotry in this country. Not that the others have gone away, but you can't really go there in public on those, which you still can with this.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)Not diminishing the problems with transphobia... just interjecting some lived experience from DU.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)since Lee surrendered at Appomattox.
Transgendered people are at constant risk of violent death.
And as a person with weight issues, I have faced, at times, hostility and even what I'd call bigoted treatment due to my weight-but would not compare my treatment with the ordeal that transpeople face.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)That little part is perfectly ok with many folks here, including the Admin.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I have experienced lately lots of what used to know as Right Wing Authoritarianism here support for the persecution of Whistle Blowers eg.
Response to morningfog (Reply #4)
itsrobert This message was self-deleted by its author.
curlyred
(1,879 posts)Honestly, think about what you just wrote. Transgender has nothing whatsoever to do with the equipment. It is when a person is trapped in the wrong body. In this case, Chelsea the female person is not in the correct physical body. She is a she and has been for her entire life.
The treatments and surgeries do not make her female. They only make the cover match the book.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)This poster seems to be making a point of presenting their pov in every thread that raises this issue.
So many people have attempted to be reasonable - to educate - to shine some light on the stunning ignorance of the remarks that it is abundantly clear that this poster takes some sick pleasure from what they are doing.
Ignore them. They are not worth one moment of your time.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)Other people read it and learn things from the argument. Even if they are hateful, people can observe the hateful behavior and distinguish how wrong that person is. That's the real reason to argue on a message board.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)I appreciate what you are saying - but at some point, that reasoning becomes an excuse for allowing overt ugliness to permeate DU. Yes, some people see it for what it is; but others use it as a springboard for their own backward attitudes. It's two steps forward and one step back - and every step back is a boot in the face of the trans* community on DU.
I say ignore it because that poster has had ample opportunity the last two days to smear their nastiness all over the board. They enjoy the responses they get because it draws attention to them. In this case, "don't feed the troll" is an apt metaphor.
edited for missing punctuation
Tien1985
(920 posts)The wrong pronouns intentionally is bigoted. You might continue to use bigoted speech, but I and others will point it out.
This is cis-centric language.
damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)I'm sure Chelsea Manning doesn't discriminate against fat people or bald people or any other. I mean, people really need to look at themselves before judging others.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That, and keeping hate alive helps the powerful keep us divided against each other, rather than united against them.
False consciousness is great for business.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I've no doubt many bigots are raised with bigoted attitudes but there is always a point when they choose some evidence over other evidence or ignore exculpatory evidence to maintain their prejudice. I doubt anyone could lob enough anti-midget propaganda at you to instill in you a hatred for little people. You would have to choose to believe them or not.
William769
(55,124 posts)enigmatic
(15,021 posts)I can't believe the vile things I'm reading here today.
MADem
(135,425 posts)BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)GP6971
(31,014 posts)UtahLib
(3,179 posts)I found some of the comments in a thread discussing Chelsea, which I could not continue reading, very mean spirited and disheartening.
I hope Skinner is observing the various bigoted attitudes and ignorance being so blithely expressed at DU today.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)And DU is my news source!
I had NO clue.
On the other hand, I'm not sorry to miss the negativity storm. But I AM sorry to hear it's going on.
I was once crazy in love with a gender dysmorphic woman. She was very masculine behaving. It was hard on me when it broke up, but she wasn't dealing with *any* of her issues very successfully......
That relationship deeply showed me, the outside stuff is just packaging.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)I seriously can't keep up with all the different symbols.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Oh, there are a few people who are always one sex or the other. They're called "perverts". One Gethenian comments how, through the envoy's visit, they've learned that there's a whole galaxy full of perverts.
It isn't what you imagined but it is, in some ways, more of a challenge to our assumptions about gender. Even if you're not generally into science fiction, it's a superb read. There are no ray guns or mad scientists or bug-eyed monsters.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)An old man wakes to find his brain has been transplanted into the body of his secretary he lusted after. To top it off, her mind is somehow still intact and they have hilarious back and forths.
One good example is when he FINALLY has sex the for first time in his new body and says to the conciseness within, "Why didn't you tell me?"
She says, "Tell you what?"
He says, "That it's so much BETTER!"
She says, "How would I know?"
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)This was my avatar at one time, and will be again.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)person of transgender identity".
People are beginning to learn what transgender identity means and Chaz really deserves a lot of credit for being willing to share so much of his personal life with the public.
He took a lot of crap for going on Dancing W/The Stars.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)ladyVet
(1,587 posts)Now we have two examples: a "male" to "female", and a "female" to "male". People can see both sides of the issue, if they're willing to look and not jump to conclusions.
I like the flags, as well, OP. Thanks for posting them.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)You write, "The cause of freeing Chelsea Manning is, therefore, now part of the larger struggle for transgender rights...."
Did transgender issues play any role in this prosecution? I really can't imagine some government decisionmakers saying, "We have several leakers here, but let's go after Manning because he sometimes dresses as a woman." It seems much more likely that the government's decision was based on the nature, scope, and impact of the leaks.
]
According to her Wikipedia bio, Manning is an atheist. Speaking as another member of the oft-persecuted irreligious minority, I wouldn't consider the cause of freeing her to be part of the larger struggle for atheist and agnostic rights.
I'm sure there are some people who support transgender rights but who also believe strongly in the national security state, and would have been happy if Manning had been sentenced to death. If they would react that way to any leaker, I don't see why they'd be logically required to make an exception based on demographic factors, like transgender status or religion.
totodeinhere
(13,034 posts)for a pardon for the person I had known as Bradley Manning. Here is the link.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023506765
So obviously I support a pardon for Chelsea and I agree with you about a pardon.
I also support the rights of transgendered people. However I think think that asking for a pardon and supporting Chelsea's rights as a transgendered person are two different things. You said "the liberation of Chelsea Manning will now become a major goal in the struggle for transgender rights." However, if Chelsea were not transgendered and remained Bradley Manning then a pardon would also have been in order. Chelsea should be freed not because she is transgendered but because what she did was the right thing to do. She is a hero not a traitor and that's why she deserves a parson. She does not deserve a pardon because she is transgendered. However she does have rights as a transgendered person whether she gets pardoned or not.
I hope I am making sense with my logic.
NealK
(1,788 posts)And you make perfect sense.
undergroundpanther
(11,925 posts)I like the trans symbol.
I couldn't get MY picture of me at a transgender rally to link here sry.
lupinella
(365 posts)dorkulon
(5,116 posts)Manning is in jail for leaking gov't secrets. Is it your position that anyone with transgender identity should not be punished for breaking the law?
(I'd be happy to see Manning released as a whistleblower, but 'transgenders get out of jail free' doesn't seem like a proper precedent to set.)
DissidentVoice
(813 posts)It is immaterial to me that Manning is transgendered.
I doubt that played any part in the issues at hand.
I don't want to see anyone discriminated against, because we all have things about ourselves that someone else would like to discriminate against. I believe fully in "when you point a finger, you've got three more pointing back at you."
If Manning wants to live as a woman, it is no business of mine. I cannot tell another how to live their life.
However, I just don't see the correlation.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)1)it is entirely possible that the harsh treatment Chelsea received during the early part of her incarceration was related to the fact that she presented as a person of ambiguous gender.
2)Even if you believe she is guilty of serious crimes(that's debatable, but for the sake of argument let's say at the moment that you're right)Chelsea Manning is going to be at special and particular risk in a military prison and in an military environment, an environment in which people are molded into a so-called "warrior elite", in part, by an obsessive campaign to demonize and stigmatize any person Who doesn't act in rigid conformity with "traditional" gender roles. It's very possible that someone will try to violently attack Chelsea during her confinement.
dorkulon
(5,116 posts)Many are, regardless of their gender identity. That's wrong and it shouldn't be--for anyone.
But, again, I feel that transgendered people should be treated EQUALLY, not better, than anyone else. The notion that Manning should be set free just because of gender identity issues is a bit absurd in my opinion.
libodem
(19,288 posts)And precious. They have an important place in all societies as healers, caregivers, foster parents, helpers and providers and mentors. They are here for a reason. They give comfort to the elderly and the orphans. They are there for the dying. Maybe not every single one but these are humans imbued with characteristics of both sexes that make them uniquely qualified to have understanding of human nature.
They are a blessing to the rest of us.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)I had no idea until this moment why, on this day of all days, transgender is the topic of the day. Thanks for enlightening me.
But yeah, it doesn't matter what parts are there, and whether the soul and body are of the same gender or different, this person must galvanize us because of what we learned not only about what our government was allowing overseas but how they treated this whistleblower.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)flag for bisexuals. I had never seen it before. I'll never understand how some people can claim to fight for homosexuals and yet stll have so many prejudices against transgenders and bisexuals. I mean if you're going to have acceptance for one why can't you have acceptance for the others as well? Just doens't make any sense to me.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)Since I'm bisexual...
1. "Why don't you just CHOOSE already?" People can't separate it. They think if they've had gay sex, they're gay.
2. They think HIV/AIDS spread from gay people to straight people because we're apparently all swingers that like bigamy.