Arkansas School Posts Sign Warning That Teachers Are Armed, Gunmen Will Be ‘Met With Deadly Force’

[kpete]

School Posts Sign Warning That Teachers Are Armed, Gunmen Will Be ‘Met With Deadly Force’
BY ANNIE-ROSE STRASSER ON AUGUST 23, 2013 AT 9:01 AM

A school in Arkansas wants any potential shooters to know: Its teachers are armed, and ready for a showdown.

Since the Arkansas Christian Academy is a private school, it is not subject to the rules for public schools in the state that prevent teachers from carrying firearms. To that end, the school has between one and seven staff members carrying a weapon on any given day, according to Pastor Perry Black, who this week posted signs that say “Staff is armed and trained. Any attempt to harm children will be met with deadly force.”



http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/08/23/2515751/arkansas-armed-teacher-sign/

[clarice]

1. Good for them ! nt

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Idiocy compounded.

First, the idea of arming teachers is totally nuts, as the insurance cos. have made fully clear.

But to cap it off with these warning signs? Any potential nutcase is warned: Shoot the teachers first.

[Bazinga]

29. Or pick a different school...

In a "gun-free" school aren't the teachers still the biggest threat to a gunman? Then wouldn't a gunman's tactical strategy involve shooting teachers first anyway?

At least in this case the teachers get a fighting chance.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

51. You can't give guns to teachers. They can't to be trusted to act responsibly around our children!!!

[sinkingfeeling]

3. It's what Jesus wants!

[denverbill]

7. He that lives by the sword, shall die by the sword.

But he didn't say nuthin' about guns! Yee-hah!

[Capt. Obvious]

4. I was just trying to figure out which cult runs the school

Any ideas?

[sinkingfeeling]

8. There's no indication of an affliation. Founded by Perry Black.

WHO ARE WE?

Family Church is a Spirit-Filled Family Worship Center filled with PRAISE, filled with LOVE and filled with JOY, reaching out across the street and around the world with the good news of Jesus Christ.

WHAT DO WE BELIEVE?

The Bible is divinely inspired and an all sufficient guide for salvation and holy living, as well as the infallible, authoritative Word of God.

There is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus, in His virgin birth, in His miracles, in the forgiveness of sin through His shed blood, in His resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.

We believe in water baptism by immersion and the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Divine health and physical healing are part of God’s provision through salvation. read more

WHAT IS OUR HISTORY?

Family Church held its first service on Father’s Day in 1990. Since then, the church has grown from a small storefront that accommodated 85 people to a 45,000-square foot Family Worship Center on Interstate 30 that ministers to hundreds of families weekly with contemporary, passionate worship along with uncompromised and relevant teaching for all ages.

The heart of Family Church and its founder, Perry Black, have always been reaching out to people in the community and around the world. Every year Family Church hosts an annual “Fall Family Fest,” an alternative to Halloween for thousands of families in the community at no cost.

In the fall of 2001, Family Church Academy opened its doors and began to offer Saline County a Christian-based education, which currently serves through 9th grade, soon to be through 12th.

Family Church reaches out to the world by supporting various world missions that go into Africa, Asia, Costa Rica, Europe, and domestic missions like The Second Chance Youth Ranch.

http://familychurchbryant.org/FCB/Home.html

[LeftyMom]

68. Some kind of Pentecostals.

The bit about the gifts of the spirit means they speak in tongues.

[Iggo]

71. The Cult Of The Gun.

[bullwinkle428]

5. This is the equivalent of Bush's "BRING 'EM ON!" exhortation to the terrorists.

[Paladin]

6. That's not a warning, that's an invitation. (nt)

[0rganism]

37. kinda what i thought -- a true psychopath might just read that as a challenge

"bringi it on, bitch!"
"maybe i will..."

[Paladin]

49. Precisely. (nt)

[winter is coming]

9. Yeah, that's gonna stop someone who was already thinking of committing a mass shooting.

[Lee-Lee]

11. Actually, it likely will

These mass shooters are cowards. They don't walk in to a police station or any place else where they expect resistance. They choose what they see as easy targets that won't resist.

Most also either take their own lives, or simply give up, when they face the first resistance.

They want to kill the biggest number of victims as possible before stopped, they are not looking for a fight.

Odds are they would, in fact, choose another target.

[Lizzie Poppet]

12. Precisely.

Good analysis. It won't apply in all cases, but for the most part, you've nailed how these people think. They have no interest in meeting resistance. They want to be in complete control (thus the huge percentage that suicide when they're about to be confronted with armed resistance...they want to control how they go out, too).

[winter is coming]

13. They want notoriety, even if they don't live to see it. They might well still choose

this school simply to boost the notoriety. A school, even with armed teachers, is nowhere near as hard a target as a police station.

[Lee-Lee]

14. Maybe

But the study and history of these guys paints a pretty clear profile. They do want notoriety, and see that as numbers.

The risk of getting stopped before they get going is not what they want, it won't make them famous.

Can you tell me the name of the shooter in Texas who was stopped by an off duty cop before he could kill anybody, just days after Newtown? Did you even hear about it?

No, the risk of getting stopped means the media doesn't make you famous.

[winter is coming]

19. I couldn't even tell you the name of "successful" shooters. n/t

[CTyankee]

34. As purely a practical matter, does this even make sense?

It seems to me that in this kind of situation the teachers first duty is to get the kids to safety out the back of the school as fast and smoothly as possible, not become sentries always ready to shoot intruders, as if each classroom is its own Alamo. This raises the further question of having classrooms full of children in danger of being in crossfire, not safely at a distance.

[Lee-Lee]

36. If I was advising them

I would agree that teachers first priority needs to be locking down the classrooms or getting out, depending on situation an building layout.

I would see far more value in having non-teaching staff armed. A principal or vice principal, IT staff, etc. They don't have direct custody of kids, so could better be in a position to 1: see the shooter first as he enters, as happened at Newtown, and 2: intervene without abandoning kids, buying time for the teachers to protect the kids.

If a teacher was armed, my advice would be they need to move the kids to the farthest corner away from the door, then position themselves behind cover away from the kids, not with the kids behind them, and be prepared to shoot as soon as the door opens and threat is verified.

But as a practical matter, it makes more sense for non-teaching staff to be the ones you arm. Something like one of the fingerprint activated safes in the principles office, with only the fingerprints if trained, approved staff loaded to open it. That way it is away and secure unless the worst happens and it is needed.

This assumes, of course, a proper trainibg and qualification program. For a person familiar with handling firearms anyway, about 40 hours training would be enough for a good program. I wonder who trained them and to what degree....

[CTyankee]

40. I think we should concenrate on making it super difficult for unauthorized visitors to get in, in

first place. Putting aside the problem of the proliferation of guns throughout our society, sadly we will need a fortress sentry kind of defense, and design or retrofit our schools accordingly.

Sad, in America we have to think of schools in this fashion. Think about it.

[Lee-Lee]

46. Of course- the best security is multi-layered.

[CTyankee]

48. but don't you even wonder why it is necessary, in the first place? I mean, really?

Since when did this become necessary and normal? We have screwed up really badly on this issue...and it doesn't seem to get any better...

[RKP5637]

59. More evidence of the decay of a civilized society IMO ... Road to "Idiocracy!" n/t

[Synthesize]

53. Probably depends on the capabilities of the individuals involved...

70 something Mrs. Granger who taught at the school for 40 years is probably going to lock her door or hustle the kids out the back.

The 30 something guy fresh from "Troops to Teachers" is more capable to respond with force.

IOW, it's not all or nothing.

[CTyankee]

54. I don't know if 40 something G.I.s returning from WW2 to resume teaching even considered that.

My late father in law was one such teacher. He owned a gun for hunting and was even a member of the NRA. I doubt very much that he would have even considered such a scenario...

[Synthesize]

62. Likely not...

The driving force behind school shootings is fame via body count.

Back in the post WWII days, the weaponry existed for body count but not the fame.

Now that we have pervasive media and that isn't going away, the next step is to reduce the ability rack up a significant body count.

[CTyankee]

69. Also people didn't really have a need for such weaponry. I grew up in the late 40s and 50s and

no one had lots of guns, and certainly not guns that exist "for body count" as you put it. It would have been unthinkable. Where did this gun cult mentality come from?

[louis-t]

27. Foolish, foolish analysis.

That's like saying the death penalty in Texas stops people from committing murders. It doesn't. There is no shortage of death sentences, and the number of murders has not gone down in Texas (or any state) because of the death penalty. "Most also either take their own lives, or simply give up, when they face the first resistance." Brilliant piece of fiction.

[Lee-Lee]

39. Ok, of all the mass shootings of the last 2-3 years

Or go back as far as you wish.

What percentage mass shootings ended in suicide?

What was the timing of that in regards to police response?

You can go look, I have, the pattern is very clear.

[Bazinga]

30. It can't be any less effective than a sign that says " this school is a gun-free zone."

I think it's a fallacy that shooters only choose gun-free zones. They typically choose targets that have some personal meaning to them, a school where they were bullied, a political target, etc. But there is no indication that this sign will attract a shooter anymore than a gun-free sign will repel one.

[rrneck]

10. Oh look, a teachable moment.

Of course what's being taught and what's being learned depends on what any given "student" brings to the information.

A nice little puree of education, religion and politics.

[EC]

15. Isn't that what "gunmen" are looking FOR?

They've all been suicidal, so isn't this just perfect for them?

Rather this is an enticement, not prevention.

[Lee-Lee]

16. No, see my above explanation of the profile of most

They want the most opportunity to kill without resistance, they don't want a fight.

[EC]

18. I still think you

are wrong. These guys yeah want a body count, but they also want to die. They'll just go in shooting. They won't see this as resistance, they'll see it as a means to an end.

[Lee-Lee]

20. That's simply not consistent with the profile

They want a body count, yes.

They want as much time without resistance to get it.

Some want to die. The ones that do almost all die by their own hand right as the first real resistance is encountered or about to be. The rest give up. Very, very few are killed by the police. The ones who want to die want to die by their own hand, in control until the end.

They don't want a fight, they don't shoot it out with police or anyone else.

[Paladin]

21. Got 'em all figured out, do you? Think that sign will do the job?

Congrats for being so far ahead of all of us mere mortals.

[Lee-Lee]

22. No, but I have been to classes about it

Some led by FBI profilers or ex FBI profielrs. As well as particpated in active shooter drills in schools coupled with training on how these guys operate. So I do have a little bit of education on the matter from folks smarter than I am on it.

[Paladin]

24. In all of that training of yours, were signs like this one ever advocated as a preventative? (nt)

[Lee-Lee]

25. Not signs directly

But it was mentioned that the presence of school resource officers or security often was a deterrent, and that mass shooters who they got alive did often admit they chose targets based on perceived security. The signs would seem to simply be an extension of that deterrence.

In fact at least one of the experts recommended that if a male (since male voices are more intimidating and are more likely to pull it off with a sound of authority under stress) was close they should yell "Police, drop the weapon" as it would stand a good chance of getting the shooter to go ahead and take their own life or at least get inside ther mental process (OODA loop, if you look it up) and cause them to shift patterns and flee. I'm not sure I am fully onboard with that, but it was an interesting insight.

[Paladin]

28. Interesting. (nt)

[Bazinga]

32. And when do they choose to commit suicide?

As soon as they meet resistance. Usually that happens when police arrive, what if it happened as soon as they enter the building?

[EC]

33. I think they meant to off themselves

before they even get to where they are going to do the deed. I don't think it's because they see it's hopeless...they know that going in already. This will be no different than suicide by cop, only it'll be by shot out in a school.

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. like school shootings happen because the shooters know they will always gets away with it?

[sarisataka]

23. I agree that

armed teachers is not a good idea, nor a solution but I do have a question.

For those ridiculing this saying the sign in the picture won't stop anyone, could you please explain why so many say this sign is more effective?

[bluestate10]

26. Hmmm, that is sort of like wearing a bright red sign that says "kick me" on your behind.

Public schools have one disadvantage, most people can easily find them, including angry or psychotic shooters. My guess if that Christian academy may end up getting more notice that it wants. A staff member with a firearm is no match for a person that has a high powered automatic weapon with plenty of rounds. The school is better off hardening it's buildings so that entry is impossible, even if a person is trying to shoot their way in.

[Bazinga]

31. A staff member with a firearm is much more of a match than one without!

I agree that it makes more sense to harden the buildings, and professional security would be far superior to training and arming teacher's. They got their priorities in the wrong order, but at least they are doing something other than expecting "no guns allowed" signs to protect them.

By the way, there has never been a school shooting with an automatic rifle.

[CTyankee]

41. There was an armed guard at the Columbine school, but he was on "coffee break" when the

shooters came in...

[Lee-Lee]

45. So effectively, there wasn't an officer there

He was out of the building, and did not go back in- so he in essence wasn't there.

And the PD there handled it all wrong. They stood and waited for SWAT to arrive, letting the killers have free reign inside.

But a lot of departments learned from their mistakes. Now virtually every department trains that as soon as 2 (some say 3-4) officers show up for an active shooter, you go in. No waiting for SWAT, no trying to surround them. As soon as you have 2 officers you go in to the sound of gunfire and fight them. Because the sooner you get resistance to them the sooner either they quit or at least they are shooting at you and not kids or other civilians.

[CTyankee]

47. well, of course, this is hindsight. We didn't have all these highprofile school shootings back then.

So we've caught up.

I can tell you, from my work with clinics that provided abortions back in the 80s and early 90s, you need pretty strong laws against these criminals. Clinton acted with his bill to protect clinics and exact harsh penalties against malicious trespassers of women's health clinics that provided abortions (among other important services). These "lovely" people acted fecklessly and invited prosecution of federal law with harsh financial penalties ( e.g. losing their houses) and suddenly, poof! no more sit ins and clinic invasions!

I'm not comparing the two exactly. I am just saying make it difficult if not impossible to do is what you DO!

[pintobean]

35. I don't always rec a kpete thread

but when I do, I would prefer dos requis.

To all who say this isn't a deterrent, I say bullshit. To any coward who wants to do a mass shooting, the unarmed school down the street will be a much more inviting target.

[apples and oranges]

38. How is warning someone with a gun that you also have a gun helpful

in any way? I've seen silly signs like that on residential homes too.

If anything, when it comes to an armed intruder, your best hope is the element of surprise. Don't put all your cards on the table beforehand. Just ask Chris Kyle and Keith Ratliffe how their extensive and highly publicized gun training and expertise worked out for them. That sign guarantees that a gunman will shoot first, negotiate later upon entering the school.

[Logical]

42. How many will take this as a challenge? Why the fucking macho shit? n-t

[gulliver]

67. Yup, the sign will just give the real nutcases ideas.

Most of them are probably suicidal anyway. The sign is asking for trouble.

[rl6214]

43. If that's what they choose to do

Good for them.

[heaven05]

44. I can't

believe some of the responses in this thread to the OP. And they are serious. Guns, guns, guns and more guns. Hell give em to the janitor also, cafeteria cooks, who else? geez

[CTyankee]

50. I know. Unbelievable that so many folks don't realize that this is treating our schools like they

"free fire zones."

Who do I thank for that?

[etherealtruth]

52. It is absolute insanity

Guns, guns, guns ... why don't we arm the children?

If children are armed at this school a deranged gunman is more likely to go to the school in the next town where children are not armed

[geomon666]

55. We should all save this thread

So when that special moment happens when a teacher kills a student, whether accidentally or otherwise, we can all look back on this thread and see all of the wonderful support this has gotten here at DU and be comforted.

[Paladin]

60. The Gun Enthusiasts will have an excuse ready, when it happens.

They always do.

[Duckhunter935]

61. and when it does not

what is your excuse?

[Paladin]

66. Your side is going to need excuses a lot more than mine will. And you know it. (nt)

[ladjf]

56. There are about 55,000,000 students in the U.S. schools grade K-12.

Over the past 15 years 323 have been killed in mass school shootings.

[Duckhunter935]

57. how many

total students in those same 15 years?

[ladjf]

72. I read that the average was about 55,000,000 in grades K - 12. nt

[RKP5637]

58. ...

[BlueToTheBone]

63. I wonder how long until the first accidental shooting

of a student by one of those armed teachers and staff?

[steve2470]

64. that will never happen, no way

[BlueToTheBone]

65. Right. My bad.

Actually this is horrible. These people are so amped up that they will kill someone... first week,first month, first semester? They are desperate to use those things.

[madinmaryland]

70. What would Jesus do????