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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 02:47 PM Aug 2013

Inside the beginning of plans for military intervention in Syria

Inside the beginning of plans for mlitary intervention in Syria

INSIGHT - military intervention in Syria, post withdrawal status of forces

Released on 2012-03-06 07:00 GMT
Email-ID 1671459
Date 2011-12-07 00:49:18
From bhalla@stratfor.com
To secure@stratfor.com

A few points I wanted to highlight from meetings today --

I spent most of the afternoon at the Pentagon with the USAF strategic
studies group - guys who spend their time trying to understand and explain
to the USAF chief the big picture in areas where they're operating in. It
was just myself and four other guys at the Lieutenant Colonel level,
including one French and one British representative who are liaising with
the US currently out of DC.

They wanted to grill me on the strategic picture on Syria, so after that I
got to grill them on the military picture. There is still a very low level
of understanding of what is actually at stake in Syria, what's the
strategic interest
there, the Turkish role, the Iranian role, etc. After a
couple hours of talking, they said without saying that SOF teams
(presumably from US, UK, France, Jordan, Turkey) are already on the ground
focused on recce missions and training opposition forces
. One Air Force
intel guy (US) said very carefully that there isn't much of a Free Syrian
Army
to train right now anyway, but all the operations being done now are
being done out of 'prudence.' The way it was put to me was, 'look at this
way - the level of information known on Syrian OrBat this month is the
best it's been since 2001.' They have been told to prepare contingencies
and be ready to act within 2-3 months, but they still stress that this is
all being done as contingency planning, not as a move toward escalation.

I kept pressing on the question of what these SOF teams would be working
toward, and whether this would lead to an eventual air campaign to give a
Syrian rebel group cover. They pretty quickly distanced themselves from
that idea, saying that the idea 'hypothetically' is to commit guerrilla
attacks, assassination campaigns, try to break the back of the Alawite
forces, elicit collapse from within
. There wouldn't be a need for air
cover, and they wouldn't expect these Syrian rebels to be marching in
columns anyway.

They emphasized how the air campaign in Syria makes Libya look like a
piece of cake
. Syrian air defenses are a lot more robust and are much
denser, esp around Damascus and on the borders with Israel, Turkey. They
are most worried about mobile air defenses, particularly the SA-17s that
they've been getting recently. It's still a doable mission, it's just not
an easy one.

The main base they would use is Cyprus, hands down. Brits and French would
fly out of there. They kept stressing how much is stored at Cyprus and how
much recce comes out of there
. The group was split on whether Turkey would
be involved, but said Turkey would be pretty critical to the mission to
base stuff out of there. Even if Turkey had a political problem with
Cyprus, they said there is no way the Brits and the French wouldn't use
Cyprus as their main air force base. Air Force Intel guy seems pretty
convinced that the Turks won't participate (he seemed pretty pissed at
them.)

There still seems to be a lot of confusion over what a military
intervention involving an air campaign would be designed to achieve. It
isn't clear cut for them geographically like in Libya, and you can't just
create an NFZ over Homs
, Hama region. This would entail a countrywide SEAD
campaign lasting the duration of the war. They don't believe air
intervention would happen unless there was enough media attention on a
massacre, like the Ghadafi move against Benghazi. They think the US would
have a high tolerance for killings
as long as it doesn't reach that very
public stage. Theyre also questioning the skills of the Syrian forces
that are operating the country's air defenses currently and how
significant the Iranian presence is there. Air Force Intel guy is most
obsessed with the challenge of taking out Syria's ballistic missile
capabilities and chem weapons. With Israel right there and the regime
facing an existential crisis, he sees that as a major complication to any
military intervention.

The post 2011 SOFA with Iraq is still being negotiated. These guys were
hoping that during Biden's visit that he would announce a deal with
Maliki, but no such luck. They are gambling ont he idea that the Iraqis
remember the iran-iraq war and that maliki is not going to want to face
the threat of Iranian jets entering Iraqi air space. They say that most
US fighter jets are already out of Iraq and transferred to Kuwait. They
explained that's the beauty of the air force, the base in Kuwait is just a
hop, skip and jump away from their bases in Europe, ie. very easy to
rapidly build up when they need to. They don't seem concerned about the
US ability to restructure its forces to send a message to Iran. They gave
the example of the USS Enterprise that was supposed to be out of
commission already and got extended another couple years to send to the
gulf. When the US withdraws, we'll have at least 2 carriers in the gulf
out of Centcom and one carrier in the Med out of EuCom. I asked if the
build-up in Kuwait and the carrier deployments are going to be enough to
send a message to Iran that the US isn't going anywhere. They responded
that Iran will get the message if they read the Centcom Web Site. Starting
Jan. 1 expect them to be publishing all over the place where the US is
building up.

Another concern they have about an operation in Syria is whether Iran
could impede operations out of Balad air force base in Iraq.

The French representative was of the opinion that Syria won't be a
Libya-type situation in that France would be gung-ho about going in
. Not
in an election year. The UK rep also emphasized UK reluctance but said
that the renegotiation of the EU treaty undermines the UK role and that UK
would be looking for ways to reassert itself on the continent
( i dont
really think a syria campaign is the way to do that.) UK guy mentioned as
an aside that the air force base commander at Cyprus got switched out from
a maintenance guy to a guy that flew Raptors, ie someone that understands
what it means to start dropping bombs. He joked that it was probably a
coincidence.

Prior to that, I had a meeting with an incoming Kuwaiti diplomat (will be
coded as KU301.) His father was high up in the regime, always by the
CP's/PM's side. The diplo himself still seems to be getting his feet wet
in DC (the new team just arrived less than 2 weeks ago,) but he made
pretty clear that Kuwait was opening the door to allowing US to build up
forces as needed. They already have a significant presence there, and a
lot of them will be on 90-day rotations. He also said that the SOFA that
the US signs with Baghdad at the last minute will be worded in such a way
that even allowing one trainer in the country can be construed to mean
what the US wants in terms of keeping forces in Iraq. Overall, I didnt get
the impression from him that Kuwait is freaked out about the US leaving.
Everything is just getting rearranged. The Kuwaitis used to be much
better at managing their relations with Iran, but ever since that spy ring
story came out a year ago, it's been bad. He doesn't think Iran has
significant covert capabilities in the GCC states, though they are
trying. Iranian activity is mostly propaganda focused. He said that while
KSA and Bahrain they can deal with it as needed and black out the media,
Kuwait is a lot more open and thus provides Iran with more opportunity to
shape perceptions (he used to work in information unit in Kuwait.) He says
there is a sig number of kuwaitis that listen to Iranian media like Al
Alam especially.

On the Kuwaiti political scene - the government is having a harder time
dealing with a more emboldened opposition, but the opposition is still
extremely divided, esp among the Islamists. The MPs now all have to go
back to their tribes to rally support for the elections to take place in
Feb. Oftentimes an MP in Kuwait city will find out that he has lost
support back home with the tribe, and so a lot of money is handed out.The
govt is hoping that with a clean slate they can quiet the opposition down.
A good way of managing the opposition he said is to refer cases to the
courts, where they can linger forever. good way for the govt to buy time.
He doesn't believe the Arab League will take significant action against
Syria - no one is interested in military intervention. they just say it to
threaten it.

http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1671459_insight-military-intervention-in-syria-post-withdrawal.html


7 Countries. Syria among them before we get to the grand prize of them all- Iran.


37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Inside the beginning of plans for military intervention in Syria (Original Post) Catherina Aug 2013 OP
Thank you, Catherina. Jackpine Radical Aug 2013 #1
Stratfor again... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #2
When people ask the question, Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #4
They live for it nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #8
Blackwater = Academi now. ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #20
Another name change? JoeyT Aug 2013 #21
"did they commit enough war crimes their name brand was tarnished again?" ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #22
Stratfor always has the scoop..... problem is..... they're almost always wrong! rdharma Aug 2013 #17
Very interesting read. Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #3
Very familiar read nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #5
Let me kick the kitty, which is now out of the bag nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #6
Thank you, Catrina and Wikileaks. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #7
K&R Cleita Aug 2013 #9
Notice how they never mention budgets in these conversations? dtom67 Aug 2013 #10
K&R NealK Aug 2013 #11
Kick nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #12
Ironic- Wesley Clark was head of NATO and crafted the strategy to win Kosovo. MANY DU'ers KittyWampus Aug 2013 #13
Tell me again, what's so special about the syrian rebels? WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2013 #14
Fascinating from 2011....I wonder what has happened since then. dkf Aug 2013 #15
The push will accelerate now nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #16
kick it again, because it is the truth nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #18
Kick again nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #19
The strategy isn't all that complicated or hard to figure out. reusrename Aug 2013 #23
I just listened to Kerry's statement. I feel so sick n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #24
What's happenned to them? reusrename Aug 2013 #25
Obama and Kerry have been resisting war with Syria before Obama became president. blm Aug 2013 #26
Pls. provide link to these diary segmaents you have been posting. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #28
Here's another one about Syria and I did post a link blm Aug 2013 #34
"Just remember, Mr. Kerry, who is going to be disappointed in you if you declare war " Catherina Aug 2013 #30
Just remember - Kerry and Obama have been RESISTING war in Syria since 2005. blm Aug 2013 #35
Didja know..Kerry was Skull and Bones at Princeton. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #27
Really? The same organization the Bushies are in? Catherina Aug 2013 #29
The college Franternity known for past and future leaders, yeah. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #33
You sound like you have no clue what has been happening in Syria and blm Aug 2013 #36
They never could do much more than delay what seems inevitable. reusrename Aug 2013 #37
that explains a lot - thank you for posting Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #31
This is like watching bacteria spread in a Petri dish. rug Aug 2013 #32
 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
4. When people ask the question,
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 03:04 PM
Aug 2013

"who would do the things to promote the war", these type of guys come to mind. Them and Blackwater (whatever they are now)

 

ConcernedCanuk

(13,509 posts)
20. Blackwater = Academi now.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 12:42 AM
Aug 2013

.
.
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi

Academi[2]—previously known as Xe Services LLC, Blackwater USA and Blackwater Worldwide—is a private military company founded in 1997 by Erik Prince and Al Clark.[3][4] Academi is currently the largest of the U.S. State Department's three private security contractors. Academi provided diplomatic security services in Iraq to the United States federal government on a contractual basis.[1] Academi also has a research and development wing that was responsible for developing the Grizzly APC along with other military technology
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thought you'd like to know

CC

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
21. Another name change?
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 11:50 AM
Aug 2013

What, did they commit enough war crimes their name brand was tarnished again? Yeesh.

 

ConcernedCanuk

(13,509 posts)
22. "did they commit enough war crimes their name brand was tarnished again?"
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 02:50 PM
Aug 2013

.
.
.

I'd say so . . .

CC

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
17. Stratfor always has the scoop..... problem is..... they're almost always wrong!
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 07:38 PM
Aug 2013

Their "intelligence" always matches their agenda.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
3. Very interesting read.
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 03:02 PM
Aug 2013

Not that more proof was needed for what we know they've wanting to do.

Now the wildcard is, will Obama let the PNAC lead him by the nose or will he not get involved in this obvious set-up.

dtom67

(634 posts)
10. Notice how they never mention budgets in these conversations?
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 04:47 PM
Aug 2013

Taxpayers' money is no issue if it goes toward "real estate' that we wanna put pipelines on, but if we want some money for Medicare, Education, or just some of JPMorgans' foodstamps, it is out of the question.

Which is it ?

Do we have a budget crisis or not?

With all the money at stake in a middle eastern war, it is hard to see any limit to what the War Profiteers might do to get us to support such an action.

I'm allergic to tinfoil, btw......

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
13. Ironic- Wesley Clark was head of NATO and crafted the strategy to win Kosovo. MANY DU'ers
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 05:49 PM
Aug 2013

hated Wesley Clark's guts and trashed him and anything he ever said or stood for before,during and after the primaries.

He not only crafted the strategy in Kosovo… he helped persuade Clinton to do it.

He was the guy who "almost started WW III".

Hell, there was even stupid shit about Haitian Man Tits…

I know, because I wanted him for POTUS. And Vice President when Obama was elected.

Here's a link to just one little DU thread from back then:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x12448#12566

I note Indiana Green was finally tombstoned. But he'd fit right into your clique today, for sure.


Here is Clark endorsing Obama:

“It would be a dramatic improvement over this feckless foreign policy which has caused us to lose influence and strength around the world,” said Sen. John McCain of Romney winning the election. “The latest debacle in Libya, Iraq is unraveling, al Qaeda is coming back all over the Middle East — those are facts that are undeniable.”

“You have one man on stage who’s done it, proved it and done it well, and you have another who has no credibility and no experience in the field,” Clark said. “This is not about theory. This is about actual practice and experience.”

Clark said Obama “took us out of Iran and Iraq. He’s got a policy to get us out of Afghanistan. He took Osama bin Laden. He’s put the toughest sanctions ever in place on Iran. He’s made it perfectly clear Iran will not get a nuclear weapon.”

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
14. Tell me again, what's so special about the syrian rebels?
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 05:51 PM
Aug 2013

What enlightened insights or tolerances do they possess about western ideals?
We need a purge of the warmongers in this country and to refocus on worldwide environmental issues and use the MIC in that capacity.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
15. Fascinating from 2011....I wonder what has happened since then.
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 06:26 PM
Aug 2013

In terms of our involvement.

They knew it would have to get very very bad for the US population to support anything. That means it is in the neocons interest to have an egregious event.

I distrust and am skeptical of all players.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
16. The push will accelerate now
Sun Aug 25, 2013, 06:39 PM
Aug 2013

we need war to keep the national security state in place, and Iraq is over, overtly, and so is Afghanistan.

We need war. Yes, I am that cynical too.

 

reusrename

(1,716 posts)
23. The strategy isn't all that complicated or hard to figure out.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 02:50 PM
Aug 2013

A lot of money can be made from a nuclear strike against Iran.

Everything flows toward that goal.

blm

(113,040 posts)
26. Obama and Kerry have been resisting war with Syria before Obama became president.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 05:50 PM
Aug 2013

It is apparent to me that few of you even remember that the push for war in Syria began in earnest in 2005. Both Clintons were supporting war with Syria should bush give it the go ahead. It was probably only Bush's rapidly sinking poll numbers that stopped it after more people were finding out about his lies to invade Iraq. With the Downing Street Memos, it became increasingly difficult to get other countries to support invading Syria.

Bill Clinton diary entry:

FRIDAY, MARCH 04, 2005

I can't sleep
I can’t sleep. I took two sleeping pills. They didn’t work. I can’t take any more, because I’m also using heart medicine. I tried playing internet poker, but I can’t focus. Right now there is nothing I can do. I have to wait till after the speech, which is at about lunch time here on the West coast. After that I have the meeting with the former police officer.

There is something I wanted to say a long time ago, but I didn’t have the time, because of my visit to Asia.

I would like to offer my deepest condolences to the family of my close friend and former prime minister of Lebanon, Rafiq Hariri. His death was a shock to me. I was horrified. I know exactly who did it and why. More about that later.

I called his family to tell them how shocked I was. I wanted to be present at the funeral, but the secret service vetoed that idea. It wasn’t safe, especially not with Hezbollah still armed to the teeth.

Mr. Hariri, lovingly called Mr. Lebanon by his fellow countrymen, was the driving force behind the reconstruction of Lebanon after the civil war. Lately he was also the driving force behind the movement to ask the Syrian government to pull its soldiers and secret service agents out of Lebanon.

That’s the reason the Syrians killed him. If Syria has to pull out of Lebanon, it will be pretty much encircled by enemy states. NATO member Turkey to the north, American troops in Iraq to the East, pro-American Jordan to the south (By the way Syria is occupying a large amount of Jordanian land, which King Abdullah wants back) and Israel to the south west.

The Syrian government killed Rafiq Hariri, because they are afraid that Lebanon would not just be sovereign if they pulled out their forces, but might in time be dominated by another power, be it Israel or the US, which is more likely.

Another reason is strategic depth. The capital of Syria is just a few miles from the border of Lebanon. And also just a few miles away from the Israeli occupied Golan Heights. Which is probably the reason Israel chose to occupy the Golan Heights. Standing on the mountains of the Golan Heights you can see Damascus in the distance. The Syrians know this. It’s a great deterrent against any Syrian adventurism.

This is the reason the Syrian government always uses the Hezbollah, a Lebanese group to attack Israel instead of attacking Israel itself.

Aside from a national defense dimension there is also the economic dimension. Syria has a hybrid half communist, half capitalist economic system. Syria is bankrupt and has been ever since the end of the Soviet Union. Without the economic power of Lebanon, Syria will fall apart economically.

Syria is also under economic sanctions by the US. Lebanon isn’t, so products Syria needs are bought by Lebanon, then transferred to Syria. There are also one million Syrians working in Lebanon. If they have to go back to Syria, Syria will see a lot of social problems with these unemployed young men.

In other words, without Lebanon, Syria will be boxed in from a military point of view and an economic point of view. Syria without Lebanon would be weak and exposed.

From the Syrian’s point of view Rafiq Hariri had to die, because he wanted them to leave. And he as a billionaire had the clout to gather international support for this idea. He was the one who asked the US and France to support United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559, which calls upon Syria to leave Lebanon.

Some US commentators say the Hariri murder might have been organized by Syria’s old guard without the knowledge of Syria’s young, inexperienced president Bashar Assad. This is an old myth dictators create to deflect responsibility.

Go back into history and you will see texts in old Roman books saying, the emperor had raised taxes for instance and the population, who didn’t want or dare attack the emperor for his mistake, they would say the emperor’s underlings had made the mistake without the emperor knowing.

I read books in which Germans, whose family members had been hauled off to concentration camps by the Nazi’s, said “If only Herr Hitler knew about this situation, he’d do something about it”. Well Herr Hitler knew about it and had actually ordered it.

It’s an old trick. The dictator can make mistakes and deflects taking responsibility by giving the impression he isn’t his own man and the population can criticize the dictator’s policies without criticizing him personally.

Bashar Assad ordered the death of Rafiq Hariri. Bashar Assad is in control of Syria.

People in the media should stop making up infantile excuses by saying the real power behind Bashar Assad killed Hariri. Assad is the power.

There are also people, who think you need to give Bashar Assad incentives to behave more responsibly, to make him stop supporting terrorists in Lebanon and Israel. This is nonsense. It took me almost eight years to understand that our way of thinking is not their way of thinking. Their way, I mean a country’s dictator’s way of thinking.

A dictator wants to stay in power. That’s all. A dictator doesn’t care about his population, war, peace. He only wants to stay in power. Everything else is negotiable.

You have to understand the Syrian tyranny. Syria’s president Bashar Assad belongs to a minority religious sect called the Alawis, a sub-group of Islam. The top government and army officials belong to the same sect, which only 10 percent of Syria belongs to. In other words 10 percent of the population is lording over the 80 percent of Syrians, who are Sunni Muslims.

Syria can not be a normal country, because that would mean, the minority Alawis giving up power to the vast majority of Sunnis. This is the reason, why Syria has to be always in a state of turmoil if Bashar Assad and his cronies want to stay in power.

As long as there is an external enemy, like Israel occupying the Golan Heights, as long as there is Turkey “occupying” according to Syria the province of Hatay, the Biblical Antioch, there are external enemies, which focus the majority populations’ attention on these external enemies.

Were these external enemies to disappear, the majority would have the time to consider their own plight. That is a dictator’s worst nightmare, because thinking about a problem and thinking about ways to solve the problem are very closely connected. This is the reason a minority government like Bashar Assad’s Syrian dictatorship needs chaos and turmoil to exist. It doesn’t want peace with its neighbors. It doesn’t want its people to be prosperous and content and have time to think about their situation.

The only way to stop Syria from being a constant threat and stop them from spreading chaos is to topple the minority government of Bashar Assad and let the majority of Syrians rule.

President Bush did this in Iraq and now that the majority Shia are in power, Iraq is looking inwards, trying to make the lives of its people better. That is what democracies do, they look inward instead of threatening their neighbors, the United States or Israel or the oil supply and with that the world economy. Majority rule means peace. Minority rule, like Bashar Assad’s dictatorship means chaos, terrorism and war.
POSTED BY BILL CLINTON AT 7:43 AM

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
28. Pls. provide link to these diary segmaents you have been posting.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 07:03 PM
Aug 2013

The tone of them does not sound at all like Clinton.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
30. "Just remember, Mr. Kerry, who is going to be disappointed in you if you declare war "
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 07:22 PM
Aug 2013
BuzzFeedBennyVerified account ‏@bennyjohnson

Just remember, Mr. Kerry, who is going to be disappointed in you if you declare war



12:55 PM - 26 Aug 13
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/372069701230157824

blm

(113,040 posts)
35. Just remember - Kerry and Obama have been RESISTING war in Syria since 2005.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 08:25 PM
Aug 2013

Sad to say that so many of you never paid attention to Syria throughout the last 8 years.

The ONLY way they'd go in is if it was a last resort. Had you understood how hard they've been pushed and how hard Kerry worked to intervene diplomatically since 2005, you wouldn't be so quick to throw stones today.

Obama made his mistake in Syria in 2008 when he named Clinton as Sec of State - she never had any interest in doing the diplomatic work necessary there because she was aligned with the hawks on Suria, so Assad never considered her an honest broker, and the window of opportunity was closed by the end of her stewardship.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
27. Didja know..Kerry was Skull and Bones at Princeton.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 07:01 PM
Aug 2013

His comments do not surprise me at all.
Very clever of Hillary to have walked away so her name is not attached to what is coming,
altho she surely knew the timing of attacking Syria.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
29. Really? The same organization the Bushies are in?
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 07:18 PM
Aug 2013

I don't care what anyone says, the ring-knocking among the rich starts early and, with few exceptions, their bond with each other, and their finances, is a lot stronger than their bond to humanity.

If there were more exceptions, we wouldn't be getting so screwed.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
33. The college Franternity known for past and future leaders, yeah.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 07:46 PM
Aug 2013

Also, it should be noted that Sec. of State job has always been held by members of the Council of Foreign Relations,
with the exception of Hillary, who is not a member but Bill and Chelsea both are.

blm

(113,040 posts)
36. You sound like you have no clue what has been happening in Syria and
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 08:27 PM
Aug 2013

how Kerry has worked to prevent war there since 2005.

Had he been Sec of State since the beginning of Obama's term in 2009 he would have succeeded in preventing war.

 

reusrename

(1,716 posts)
37. They never could do much more than delay what seems inevitable.
Mon Aug 26, 2013, 10:29 PM
Aug 2013

They never believed they had the power, but they really do. The world is watching.

They just used to be such straight shooters. What happened? They really are our last, best hope.

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