I have to wonder about those who can't figure out what to call Chelsea Manning

[dsc]

Have you never had a woman in your life get married and change her name? Presuming you did have such a woman in your life, did you rebel against using her new last name? I am not saying you didn't maybe slip and use the old one, or have to look up spelling of the new one, but I have my doubts there were people whose new last name you just plain refused to use. What is the difference here? Chelsea Manning has asked you to use her new name, Chelsea. Is that really so flipping hard? I could see if she said my new name is some symbol no one can pronounce. But she picked a fairly easy name to say and spell. Just get over it.

[leftstreet]

1. I'm glad DU wasn't around during the Civil Rights Movement

I can't believe in 2013 people have to fight the same arrogant paternalism that underlies the bizarre belief in a 'right' to label others



DURec

[quinnox]

2. names can be hard for some people

And some names stick. Cat Stevens is still known as Cat Stevens even though he changed his name ages ago. If you ever see a news story about him, they always refer to his prior name (The person formerly known as Cat Stevens)


My attitude is what Shakespeare said "What is in a name? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet"

[Zorra]

9. It's true! Folks with Alzheimer's or some type of dementia often have a difficult time with names.

[madinmaryland]

3. The convicted felon who handed over state secrets to a foreign national. That was easy..

That is what I call the former Private Bradley Manning.

Next?

[Bluenorthwest]

61. That's an updated verison of 'the draft dodging coward Cassisus Clay can call himself anything

but his name is Cassius Clay'.
Ali was an objector to the war during a draft. He refused service. Many whites were furious with his 'treason' and many refused to refer to him as Mohammad Ali 'because he hates America'.

[MrMickeysMom]

74. That's wrong...

The prosecution failed to prove that he aided the enemy, and to call it handing over state secrets is disingenuous.

I agree with the majority that this verdict will come to be known as the defining moment for what was seen as true Obama Doctrine: the War on Whistleblowers.

[Jenoch]

4. I have not weighed in on this issue.

I will say that comparing the Manning name issue to a bride changing a surname through marriage is ridiculous at best and disingenuous at worst. The two situations are not analogous. A bride is not deciding to change genders when the surname is changed.

[morningfog]

6. You should have continued to refrain from weighing in.

No one is "deciding to change genders."

[Mariana]

90. Really.

I expect next we'll be hearing about how homosexuals "decide to be gay".

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Probably should have stayed that way.

DSC's analogy is spot on because he is talking about the people who keep claiming they "get" the name change, and the pronouns that go with it. If Miss Johnson gets married to Mr. Davis, are you going to continue to call her "Johnson" despite he changing her name to "Davis"? You going to use the incorrect title "Miss?" If anything, DSC's analogy is simplistic because it has to be, as exemplified by your post and several scores of others just like it!

[Zorra]

14. Ya know, BTA, why can't some people just admit that they hate transgenders, and

face the fact that they have a sick need to try to hurt and insult transgenders by referring to them with a name or gender marker that they will find offensive?

I mean, is that really so difficult?

All these childish, disingenuous "But really, mom, the dog ate my homework, really, I swear!1! posts are getting so embarrassing they are painful to read.

It's time for the transphobes to come out of the closet and "transgender up" by having the courage to be who and what they really are.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. It is denial.

They clearly think because they aren't calling them "trannies" then they aren't bigots. To them, it is simple, only names are bad, but other than that, everyone else is the one with the problem of being oversensitive. I see the same thing with homophobia, anti-Semitism, and a variety of other "-isms" and "-phobias."

[Zorra]

44. Yes. The thing is, why do they cling to their bigotry? The denial is like some weird ego protection

attempt that any adult can see through immediately, and makes them look absolutely juvenile. The patterns of hate are always the same, or at most very similar, whether it is expressed toward Jews, blacks, LGBT's, etc. whoever the target of hate du jour is, ad nauseum.

Clinging to destructive, dearly held irrational bigoted beliefs and behavior, is an extremely serious impediment to all personal growth in anyone that insists on clinging to teh hateful stupid.

[Jenoch]

15. You are making many assumptions.

I do not care if Bradley Manning has changed his name. Manning has a gender identity disorder, and has chesen to tell the world. I have zero problem with that. I have zero problem with agreeing to use the preferred pronoun and new name.
I do not believe the Manning situation is the same as a bride changing surnames. One involves a name only, the other involves a gender change as well as a name change. Those are facts without any prejudice.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Seems my assumptions were correct.

You can't seem to comprehend that the offense is NOT against Manning, but against the transgender COMMUNITY! So, it is the same, and your prejudice continues to shine through in your words because it isn't that difficult to say "Chelsea" instead of "Bradley" as you have demonstrated AGAIN. It isn't difficult to say "her" not "him", as you have shown AGAIN. Perhaps you should just step back out of the conversation because you clearly not willing to learn.

[Jenoch]

22. Wow are you not reading my post correctly.

Bradley Manning DID choose to change his name. I do not have a problem with manning announcing the name change or announcing thw gender identity issue. It does not affect me. If that change provides a better situation for Manning, I am all for it.

I just do not think it is comparable to a person getting married (gender is immaterial) who decides to change their surname. One is a name switch and the other is a name AND gender switch.

By the way, it was Bradley Manning who announced the name switch and clarification of the gender identity.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. I read them correctly.

Your posts still reek of bigotry as evidenced by your failure address her by her name or use the correct pronouns.. You can't even bring yourself to show a modicum of respect to the transgender community. Is it that difficult?

[Jenoch]

28. Are you saying Bradley Manning

did not make an announcement about the name change and announcing a gender switch? I used a masculine pronoun only in reference to the announcement. At that time Manning was announcing the switch from male to female.

I have zero problems with Manning and the announcement. I have made zero bigoted comments or references. I simply do not believe a name change announcement and a combination gender/name change announcement are comparable.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. As another poster has already shown, no, it was not "him" it was Chlesea Manning.

You clearly have a problem despite your protestations, or you would simply would use the correct name and pronouns, but that seems to be too difficult for you. I guess calling Mrs. Davis would be too big a chore for you as well. I feel sorry for "Miss Johnson" and the contempt and disrespect you show her.

[Jenoch]

46. Who are Mrs. Davis and Miss Johnson?

This is the first reference I have read about them in relation to this situation.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. Further demonstrating the problem.

[TeeYiYi]

27. You're mistaken. It was Chelsea who made the announcement...

Below is the full statement Manning shared with the Today show on Thursday:

Subject: The Next Stage of My Life

I want to thank everybody who has supported me over the last three years. Throughout this long ordeal, your letters of support and encouragement have helped keep me strong. I am forever indebted to those who wrote to me, made a donation to my defense fund, or came to watch a portion of the trial. I would especially like to thank Courage to Resist and the Bradley Manning Support Network for their tireless efforts in raising awareness for my case and providing for my legal representation.

As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition. I also request that, starting today, you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility). I look forward to receiving letters from supporters and having the opportunity to write back.

Thank you,

Chelsea E. Manning

TYY

[Jenoch]

47. If Bradley Manning had nothing to do

with the announcement and it was someone named Chelsea, then why would anyone care or even know who this Chelsea Mannng was?

Once again, I have zero problems with whatever Chelsea Manning does or does not do.


My ONLY point is that a name change like this cannot be accurately compared to someone changing their surname as part of a marriage contract.

[TeeYiYi]

56. Are you being ignorant, or willfully obtuse? ..nt

TYY

[Bluenorthwest]

63. It's just 'what those freaks do is not to be compared to Sacred Marriage' materials

The haters have used the same arguments for all time.

[rl6214]

69. Why is it

"Except in official mail to the confinement facility"?

[uppityperson]

70. You have "zero problem agreeing to use the preferred pronoun" yet contine to refer to her as "him, h

his, he"? Younhave "zero problem agreeing to use the ..new name" yet continue to refer to her as "Bradley"?

It seems odd.

[Jenoch]

82. I used it once, but that was about the announcement.

Bradley Manning DID change his name, that is a fact. I used the pronoun him in reference to Manning before the name change.

Again, I don't care about the name change and the announcement of gender. I just do not think it should be compared to a person changing their name through marriage. That is minimizing Manning's change.

If I chose to change my first name as a heterosexual male, is that the same as Pfc. Manning changing names?

[Gormy Cuss]

73. Here's a way it's similar.

I'm a married woman who never changed my surname. Some of my husband's family members ALWAYS address mail to me with his last name rather than mine. It's not ignorance --they all know that I kept my name. It's a statement of disapproval.

[Jenoch]

84. Your husband's family should be ashamed of themselves.

I used to have a co-worker who's wife kept her surname and it was never an issue. I guess she did not wish to become Mrs. Smucker.

[Gormy Cuss]

89. They're conservative Republicans

and are afraid of change. The surname issue is minor in the greater scheme of things. In most cases when I correct someone, they adapt and use my name. There are no laws in this state preventing me from using my own name, for example.

The real issue with stubborn persistence in referring to Manning with male gendered pronoun is a lack of acceptance of gender dysphoria. It's not up to ME to decide for a trans* person which gender is appropriate. It's also not up to me to make up my own definition of what it means to be trans.* I realize that it's hard for some people to grasp the notion that someone can live life as a woman with a penis or as a man without one, but not all transgendered people can afford or want reassignment surgery. Hell, I don't really get that either, but then again I'm not transgendered and have no IRL friends who are either.

What I do get is that it's a small consideration for me to respect their declarations of gender and treat them accordingly.

[Jenoch]

91. "There are no laws in this state preventing me from using my own name, for example."

Are there states where there is such a law?

By the way, I still don't think your name issue is comparable to Manning's change. You did not change your gender.

The only time I used a male pronoun is when I was referencing the name change in the past tense. I don't know how to get around that. I have not done so in the last several posts.

If I were to change my name, I would not even think to compare it to someone changing their name because of a gender change.

[Gormy Cuss]

93. There were. Don't know if there are any laws anymore.

I only know the law in the state where I married, which makes no assumption of name change.

The surname analogy is relevant to situations like Manning's because all that we were asked to do is change the name and gender references. It's no big deal to replace Bradley with Chelsea, is it? Why is it a big deal to use female gender pronouns after a person has told you she's a woman?

[Jenoch]

94. As I have indicated, it is not a big deal to me.

Also, as I have indicated, it is a much bigger deal than when someone changes their name without announcing a gender change.

[Lifelong Dem]

5. Reminds me of

Raymond J. Johnson Jr.

Whatever she wants people to call her is alright with me.

[dionysus]

7. " Chelsea Manning has asked you to use her new name, Chelsea. Is that really so flipping hard? "

it shouldn't be, should it? wonder why some folks are having a hard time with it. I can see if someone wasn't up on the news.. but i've seen some people here awful stubborn about it.

[LuvNewcastle]

45. Some people go out of their way to complicate the simplest things.

If someone tells you she doesn't like what she's been called up to this point and gives another name to be called, you are supposed to just respect that and do it. It has nothing to do with you and your likes or dislikes. Ye Gods, people are so fucking thick-headed sometimes!

[Tx4obama]

10. The easiest thing to do is to just use the last name: Manning

in my opinion there's really no need to even use a first name.

Just like folks do with tons of other people when referring to folks that have a well known last name.

Obama
Biden
Trump
Palin
Romney
Snowden
Colbert
Beck
Leno
Letterman
etc.

[FarCenter]

60. And Prince

Apparently no longer "love symbol number 2", "the artist formerly known as Prince" or "the artist".

In this case it would be "the convict formerly known as Bradley Manning".

[rwsanders]

11. This is my view...

When Manning is able to make a statement in public without any possibility of coercion, I will accept whatever label is requested.
Until then, isn't this too much like raw meat for the right, "hey look what the left is giving you, gays in the military and now a transgender traitor"?

[morningfog]

13. Does the "rw" in rwsanders stand for "right wing"?

[rwsanders]

66. no more than the fog in "morningfog" stand for the fog in your brain.

[rwsanders]

98. I'm going to explain this in very simple terms before I add you to my ignore list...

and show you why you are the one with the right wing attitude, which is why the accusation came so quickly to your mind.
1. No one here would deny that Manning has been psychologically abused and tortured.
2. I think very few here would deny that this storyline is perfect for the right and Rush, Beck and Savage must be having a grand time using this to paint the left in a negative light.
3. No one knows if these stories aren't being used to torment him, as in his jailers saying "this is how you are going to be remembered and portrayed".
So I have enough respect for Manning as a person to wait until I am sure that there is no manipulation or coercion in the story.
You don't want to afford that same respect because either this story fits with an agenda of yours or somehow you feel it validates you in some way.
In either case, I feel sorry for you. But the end result is that your reaction is about you. It is that "me first" attitude that has come to characterize the right that you claim to dislike. Sad for you, you are becoming what you hate.

[Ms. Toad]

99. She announced her transition in 2010, before her arrest.

Chelsea Manning first announced to the world that she considered herself to be a woman with a tweet sent from the account of “Breanna Manning” in May of 2010, just days before her arrest. She was then living as a man with the name Bradley Manning. “I’ve entered a transitional phase of my life,” wrote Private Manning.

Read more: http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/22/manning-biographer-media-should-respect-the-trans-experience/#ixzz2d8GGlgXN

Her attorneys are also speaking on her behalf - http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/26/chelsea-manning-hormone-treatments/2704401/

Coombs said he and Manning knew the Army might not provide hormone treatment, but they were hoping the military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., would allow it since Manning had been diagnosed with gender-identity disorder by an Army psychiatrist who testified at his trial.

It wasn't until they read a Courthouse News Service story that Manning decided to make the announcement. The story quoted prison spokeswoman Kimberly Lewis saying the prison would not provide hormone therapy. It was published Aug. 20, the day before Manning was sentenced to 35 years in prison for leaking mountains of classified material the anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks.

"It was Chelsea's intent to do this all along," Coombs said. "It was only after Fort Leavenworth had said that they would not provide any sort of medical treatment that we decided not to wait."

[morningfog]

101. You just don't get it, but cute rant.

You missed the mark from start to finish.

[Ohio Joe]

12. It's plain bullshit... There are no people who can't figure it out...

There are only the bigots who enjoy spreading their hate.

[skippy66]

18. Is it a war crime that.......

The Brig Commander will keep Chelsea in confinement with men instead women?
Force her to wear the masculine brig attire instead of the female brig attire?

In the prisons in California they segregate the transgender prisoners so they are safe from the other prisoners. Chelsea will spend her incarceration at Ft Leavenworth. Female prisoners spend their incarceration at Miramar Brig near San Diego.

I hope they keep her safe.

[alittlelark]

19. Been thinking along the same line for days....

... getting a divorce after many years, and want my name back. It is who I am... I do not want anyone forcing me to be that person I do not wish to be. It is MY life.

It is HIS life.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. HER life

[Flatulo]

21. I've known two transgenders in my life. In each case, the person announced their transition to

myself and a few other close friends.

I distinctly remember that they did not ask for understanding and acceptance (even though it was freely given). What they asked for, and what was very important to them, was that we respect and use their new chosen names and to think of them as their new gender.

It's very important and helps them emotionally and socially. It takes zero effort. Even in the privacy of my own thoughts, it was and is easy to think of Don as Denise, as Mike as Michelle.

[ConcernedCanuk]

26. I know one transgender personally

.
.
.

Knew him before, know her now.

Watched for years as he went through the the emotional, and then the physical transition.

I made a point to ask her what to call her - (first name was the same, but as a male - a short form was used)

She wants to be called by her full name - I slip now and then, because was used to calling him by the short form of the name.

I live in a small town of 2000, so his change to a her is not accepted by most.

A couple of people approached me after her final operation, commenting about the fact I was seen with her,

even helping her with a renovation in her apartment afterwards.

I said "so what"? - They tried to make me feel guilty/ashamed of associating with her - didn't work - quite the opposite.

I told them that I know many people, and she is one of the nicer ones -

Sexual orientation means nothing to me - perversion? - that's another matter.

That's not the situation here, but many think because one is different, that it is wrong -

well - it's not.

eom

CC

[Flatulo]

36. Both of my friends transitioned more or less in full view of their coworkers and families.

I had to endure a few stupid comments, but on balance, as a friend, it was pretty easy after the initial surprise (my first friend did this about 25 years ago, so it was quite the unusual event).

I'd have to say that due in part to the love and support myself and a few other close friends gave, it made the transition easier for them. Their families were a different matter. In both cases we're much closer friends now than we were before.

[ConcernedCanuk]

39. I never "endured" stupid or degrading comments.

.
.
.

I'd get right back into the face of the person making the comments.

I am not an aggressive man, but I'm damm well assertive.

Someone gets into my face,

I'm in theirs.



CC

[Luminous Animal]

24. It's sooooo confusing. It's like when they changed the "flesh" crayon to "peach"

It took me YEARS to adapt.

[enigmatic]

25. I'm a middle-aged heterosexual white guy

It took me literally 10 seconds to process and make the switch from Bradley to Chelsea, from him to her.

It isn't hard.

[ConcernedCanuk]

42. LOL - "It isn't hard" - not any more!

.
.
.



CC

[kestrel91316]

30. Wow. Because we just desperately needed ANOTHER thread to beat this

goddamned dead horse.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. Look at the comments...apparently so.

Then again transphobia is not "cool", so I can see how it is a nuisance to some.

[kestrel91316]

33. Starting a new thread where any of the hundred others on this exact same

topic would suffice is just attention seeking behavior on the part of the OP.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Personally, it is wonderful....like moths to a flame.

[napoleon_in_rags]

43. I'm still looking for the trasphobic threads.

I mean the ones that really bash trans people, not one where someone calls Manning by the name that's been in the press for years, or people who claim (as I have) that if Manning is denied treatment, its a denial of her true identity, and she can't be her self. What is see is people trying to gain points for really, really petty stuff.

[Laughing Mirror]

51. Here are a couple of transphobic posts from a transphobic thread, now deleted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023529647#post21

[napoleon_in_rags]

52. So was it the real thing?

Cause I'm not seeing it. And frankly, I just can't imagine it out of this community.

[Laughing Mirror]

57. Manning said she is female and her name is Chelsea

There is nothing ambiguous about her request.

You will keep calling her Bradley and he/him because you don't think she'll be Chelsea (and worthy of being called she) until she receives treatments of some sort. Is this correct?

[napoleon_in_rags]

53. Oh woah, my post? Uh NO.

The original poster asked about some larger issues connected to the sentencing. the "divine gender status" comment refers to how his/her personal issues are being played up over the larger issues of what s/he sacrificed his freedom for.

I said:

Right now, Bradley shaves his face, and is biologically male. He can't become Chelsea without the treatments. The trans identity transition must be accompanied with physical changes, otherwise it is a denial of reality with no substance. A name change is not enough, Manning must receive the therapy to be the person she is.

That's the direct quote. My point being that Manning cannot be herself without the treatments, and it is in my opinion cruel and unusual punishments to deny them. My arguing that it is cruel and unusual treatment to deny a transgendered person the hormone treatment they are seeking is not transphobia. If you thought it was, you could confront me on that thread, and I would have explained my position.

There is very real oppression and violence being perpetrated against the LGBT community worldwide, and splitting hairs about wording on this forum is not standing up to it.

[Laughing Mirror]

58. The thread was locked by the time I read your follow-up post

and so I could not respond to it. So I am happy to respond to it here.

You were calling her Bradley and he after she had asked to be called Chelsea, she, because your opinion was that she will only be Chelsea when she looks like what a woman should look like to you, having undergone the required "physical changes" as you put it.

So until then you were going to call her Bradley and he/him because she looked like a man to you, right?

Do you not think it is not cruel and unusual to not call her by the name she has asked everyone to call her by? Is her name not part of her transition? Why can you not honor her as a person in this way? Why would you want to deny her that?

[napoleon_in_rags]

67. That's not the key thing she's being denied.

Bradley Manning, Now Chelsea, Denied Hormones in Prison
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/bradley-manning-now-chelsea-fights-hormone-treatment-prison/story?id=20036939

I chose the words I chose because of that fact right there, to make a point about it. She's being denied the hormone treatments, necessary to have the outside match the inside. So she is being blocked off from being herself, so on the outside she's still Bradley. That's just the fact, and that's the intent of my point.

You can call it wrong, but really my words are to bring up cruelty of denying any one valid medical care they are seeking in a prison context. Was it wrong for me to use the name to express this point? Maybe, but its small thing compared to the denial of treatments, and I'm honest to God not a transphobe. Promise.

[Laughing Mirror]

88. Cruelty of denying, of course

That's why good people are working on her behalf so that she will got those treatments, ACLU and others.

From your article:

Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, said his client's goal was not to be placed in a women's prison. Rather "the ultimate goal is to be comfortable in her skin, and to be the person that she's never had the opportunity to be," according to an interview on the "Today" show.

Coombs said he hoped Fort Leavenworth "would do the right thing and provide" the hormone treatments. If not, he said he would "do everything in my power to make sure that they are forced to do so."

Masen Davis, executive director of the Transgender Law Center in Oakland, Calif., told ABCNews.com that its attorneys were "looking at every recourse that Manning will have in military prison" to obtain necessary medical treatment.

I'm glad to hear you're not a transphobe, honest.

[William769]

71. I won't do the search for you well just because.

But I will say this the many people that have been banned this past week for transphobia blows your argument right out of the fucking water.

Case closed.

Have a nice day.

[napoleon_in_rags]

76. Can you tell me about the nature of the posts?

I'm a little concerned, having learned that wording and naming issues were enough to have at least one poster look at me as transphobic, when that was certainly unintended. Is there real trans hate going on here? Should I be alarmed?

[William769]

78. You should be alarmed, and in more ways than one.

[napoleon_in_rags]

79. Can you explain that? Because it sounds a little like a threat. nt

[William769]

81. Threats are not in my behavior.

I am not the one banning the long term DUER's for transphobia.

[napoleon_in_rags]

86. So you're saying I should be alarmed I might be banned.

You know, if it happens it happens. I support LGBT rights. More importantly, I have no power with my choice of words in the situation with Manning. The military defines his experience totally at this point, whether he gets the hormone treatments or not, and what I say doesn't matter. I'm not in some position of power, where my pronouncements shape the world, and I must parse my wording like world leaders. Molehills are being made into mountains here.

[Humanist_Activist]

92. Your choice of pronouns is revealing, and frankly I doubt you are a...

supporter of LGBT rights.

[napoleon_in_rags]

95. I am a supporter of LGBT rights.

This is what I'm talking about. I still think of Manning as male, because that's how I've viewed her in the past. So my apologies she. But I'm not shaping her destiny with my pronoun choices, that's my point. Your ignoring my direct overt statements in favor of supposed between the lines statements. That comes across to me as a fundamental redirection. I'm not the one blocking the treatments. I have no power over Mannings situation. Parsing my words more carefully won't change that.

[TreasonousBastard]

31. And I have to wonder why it's become such a big fucking deal...

So this Manning person declares one day "I am a woman"

OK, so you're a woman. Big deal. Wanna be Chelsea, be Chelsea.

But, if you declared yourself Native American, would everyone have to call you that, too?

OK, so now I'm officially a bigot-- so sue me. I know several transgendered in real life (and they don't call themselves that-- what they do call themselves would get this post hidden) and while they have their own issues they have lived through, very little of it relates to so much of what I see here.

For one thing, the constant talking behind his back "explaining" things is the kind of thing that is not exactly helpful.

[leftstreet]

34. Sigh. The elephant in the room is the underlying misogyny

It's so obvious, and I have to wonder if that's why some people can't move on from this

[Morning Dew]

59. You have that exactly right.

[dsc]

50. ask Elizabeth Warren

about the Native American thing.

[The Straight Story]

35. Many of my friends on FB use both names

Last edited Mon Aug 26, 2013, 02:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Usually like Mari Denton Lovecraft (example, not a real friend. Or enemy. But she did steal my Necronomicon once.) So that people who want to friend them can more easily find them and since that was the name they had in HS.

I have no problem calling someone by the new name they choose. Whether by gender, marriage, name change on DU, whatever.

But would also note if I changed my name and people still called by my old one I personally wouldn't care, more worried about a million refugee kids in Syria, unrest in Egypt, health care in the US, etc and so on - as long as people had my back on that they could call me whatever the hell they wanted.

If I had to venture a guess I think manning would rather people focus on the things that were important to her at the time and keeping our allies around to work on change for the betterment of our country. She went to prison over something that is getting less air time than her name change and less outrage by those who hold the same political values she does.

Sometimes the big picture gets buried over the smaller one. And the big picture could well screw us all in the end.

I'll respect her wishes, it is just the normal and right thing to do. But I am not gonna spend a lot of time and energy trying to track those who don't. That energy is best respecting what she set out to do.

[backscatter712]

37. There's the ignorant, then there's the willfully obtuse.

Fixing genuine ignorance takes five seconds and four words: "Her name is Chelsea."

The people who are still "confused" after multiple rounds of educating really don't belong here.

[NealK]

40. I totally agree.

[steve2470]

41. totally agree nt

[LuvNewcastle]

48. Agreed. There's nothing to be confused about.

[Heidi]

54. Exactly.

Thank you, backscatter712!

[Starry Messenger]

55. All of this.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. This is an easy one and it has nothing to do with gender

You should address a person how that person wants to be addressed, right down to the pronunciation.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. So many claim to have no information, no experience and no way to get any without asking rude

loaded questions about who's paying for a 'elective surgery' on public message boards or Facebook. Folks who say they are professional writers claim to be so confused that they have no choice but to post to the world a bunch of poorly phrased right wing style questions. Apparently they don't know about Google. They 'have to' shout to a packed room 'who's paying for this' because they are 'confused' and others should see this confusion like a lovely accessory and gently, oh so gently instruct the poor, confused Googleless person over and over and over, no matter how long they cling to bigoted modes of speech, no matter how insulting they are. They are 'confused' and unable to seek information independently. And they are owed the service of others, while they don't owe others so much as a proper 'hello ma'am'.

[Dawgs]

65. Actually, continuing to call someone by their maiden name for awhile is very common.

No one should expect EVERYONE to immediately know or remember someones new name when they've been using the old one for so long. It's just human nature.

It doesn't always mean that people are insensitive, rude, or bigoted. It might just be a mistake.

[rl6214]

68. Has manning legally changed the name from Bradley to Chelsea?

If so then the name is Chelsea manning, if not, it is still Bradley manning until done so.

[uppityperson]

77. Many women do ot get their names changed legally after marriage but simply start referring to themse

themselves by their husband's last name. I did for a while, did not get it legally changed either to his last name or mine back. Just started using it and so did others. The only people who continued to refer to me by my spouse's last name after I quit were a couple elderly relatives.

Same thing here. People change their names, not by filing a court request, and typically many are decent enough to refer to the person by their preferred name.

AnotheR example. Do you know a Robert who is called Bob? How about Elizabeth whomis known as Betty? Do younrefuse to call Mike Mike because his legal name is Michael?

[rl6214]

80. Bob is a common nickname, as is bobby, rob, Robbie

My name is Robert but I don't ask anyone to call me john.

[uppityperson]

85. Did you legally change your name to Bob, Rob, or Bobby? So why accept people calling you those?

Or are you changing goal posts from "legally changing name" to "something that sounds similar"?

[rl6214]

100. You really aren't very good at this

As uppity as you may be.

No one said anything about "something that sounds similar". You are the one changing goal posts.

Common nick names, as in widely accepted.

[William769]

72. Kick & recommended.

[Nevernose]

75. Honestly, I don't see why anyone cares

I have so many more pressing considerations in life; I just don't care about her name or decisions relating to gender.

If she wants to be called Chelsea and referred to with feminine pronouns, what do I care? I'll refer to her as Chelsea and I lose absolutely nothing on the process. For that matter, if she wanted people to call her Mister Macho Man, then sure, why not?

People critical of her must have a lot of free time to worry about other people's business, and a weird concern about other people's genitals.

[railsback]

83. I don't have a problem calling him Chelsea.

[Spirochete]

87. might just take some more time

to get used to it. After all, she did become famous as a man named Bradley Manning. My first post after the change, I used "him" and "he" inadvertently. But then, the news was only a couple hours old to me. Maybe some of us just need to catch up. Us old people, especially.

[alarimer]

96. Willful ignorance and bigotry

I have actually known someone who transitioned and you simply call them what they wish to be called. You don't have to "get it" or understand anything about the "why", just be a human being and treat them the way they want to be treated.

I think people are wondering (cynically perhaps) if she decided to make this announcement in order to get what is perceived to be better treatment in a women's facility. I am not one of them because I doubt either prison would be a walk in the park. In addition, having made this announcement, whether or not she receives the treatments, it will likely be much harder anyway, given the likely brutal harassment.

[struggle4progress]

97. "... PVT Manning ... expects that the name Bradley Manning and the male pronoun will continue

to be used in certain instances ..."
Additional Clarification on PVT Manning's Request
26 August 2013