War on Syria: Twenty Pounds of Stupid in a Ten-Pound Bag

[WilliamPitt]

A front line, where rebels have made slow gains
against the entrenched Syrian Army, in Aleppo, Syria,
Dec. 12, 2012. (Photo: Tyler Hicks / The New York Times)

War on Syria: Twenty Pounds of Stupid in a Ten-Pound Bag
By William Rivers Pitt
Truthout | Op-Ed

Tuesday 27 August 2013

I'm just going to throw this out on the stoop and see if the cat licks it up: instead of attacking Syria, how about we don't attack Syria?

Crazy, I know; this is America, after all, and our presidents like nothing more than to flip a few cruise missiles at other countries, combined with a few bombing sorties for good measure, because it's a hell of a lot easier than actual statecraft. Besides, it looks good on television, and all those meanies in Congress can't accuse the Commander in Chief of not doing anything. Oh, also, cruise missiles and bombs cost a lot, so if we pull the trigger on Syria, someone will get paid handsomely.

What ho, this we call "diplomacy," right? Flatten a few buildings, blow some children sideways out of their kitchens during breakfast, take a victory lap on the Sunday morning talk shows...what could possibly go wrong?

Quite a bit, as it turns out.

The rest: http://truth-out.org/news/item/18416-war-on-syria-twenty-pounds-of-stupid-in-a-ten-pound-bag

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. Agreed

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. rec

[steve2470]

3. agreed nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

4. knr

[Dustlawyer]

5. K&R!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

6. K&R

[HangOnKids]

7. K&R

Indeed

[warrior1]

8. damned if you do

damned if you don't

[JEB]

9. Thanks for the article.

Excellent run down of the situation.

[Junkdrawer]

10. No plan short of a Regional All-Out War and the kind of redrawing of borders....

that come as a result of World Wars makes a lick of sense.

I'm afraid the PTB see this as a now-or-never moment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023535402

Hope to God I'm wrong.

[lark]

34. Opportunity for profit trumps all.

Human lives, real long term strategic interests, none of that matters a damn, only the opportunity to build more war toys is driving this 1% wet dream. Disgusting!

[Junkdrawer]

38. When Empires collapse, pre-emptive World Wars are always a worry....

this one has me fightened.

[lark]

39. Neocons are lusting after war in both Syria and Iran.

They can make so much more profit if they go after either one of these nations since they actually have the ability to fight back and make this a regional or even worst case world war. Oh how the 1%ers are salivating!

[moonlady0623]

59. that's pretty general, "Neocons,"

My right-wing sources aren't crazy about this idea either. The disconnect on ALL sides of the political spectrum seems to be that the Powers That Be are hellbent to destroy our Republic one way or the other. Seems pretty damn obvious to me that there's good money to be made in waging endless war.

I still believe that if we can stop finger-pointing across the aisle and remember
UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL
we might be able to stand against this insanity with some success.

[lark]

133. I was referring to a group of people, not one person, so used a general term.

So far Obama has strongly resisted the call to war with Iran and Syria and hope to God he continues to do that. You are right, war with either of those would be totally insane and destructive to our country. The only ones that would profit, and they would profit mightily, are the 1%ers - that's the peril we face. They usually get their way.

[moonlady0623]

151. Generalizations like that....

......well they're not helping us at all. United we stand, divided we fall. We have to make a conscious decision to stop doing it. When we stop letting "Them" divide us like this, maybe we can stand against the true evil. Peeling back layers of "talking points" and looking behind the partial quotations taken out of context and trying to understand what is really meant by the rhetoric takes WORK but it does make it a LOT easier to have some faith that we can actually SAVE our country and find a way to live in peace in the world.

It's not "neocons" it's the self-created ruling class and their big monied backers who perpetuate their crazy idea that they know best. I don't care what color their state is, or what their voter registration says they are.

[lark]

152. What is your definition of neocon?

I'm talking about the PNAC, Graham, McCain, Cheney, Bushes, the 92 congresscritters that want us to go to war with Syria - all the big money people and their backers wanting to push us into another profitable for them war.

Also, a neocon is usually, but not always, Republican. I do care about voter registration, since Republicans do not in general share my values of peace, transparency, helping those less well-off, good stewardship of the earth's resources, a good days' pay for a good days' work, privacy and respect. Democrats have too often been falling far short as well, but they rarely reach the heights of crazy that some Repugs seem to find natural, so I always vote Dem. I care a whole lot more about policy than labels, however, so have no issue complaining about stupid or bad things Dems do either.

[moonlady0623]

153. Ah but see,

Republicans don't like most of those guys either. NONE of us are being represented. Once I strip away the talking point weaselwords I almost always find a compassionate person who cares about others.

[golfguru]

66. Obama & Hagel & Kerry are not neocons

by any stretch of imagination.

[indepat]

74. Then don't perpetuate the neocon agenda. Have the balls to not be afraid of being labeled

by neocons as weak on national defense and/or soft on terra. Quit feeding the coffers of the MIC by surreptitiously using their sophisticated weaponry and other killing toys on people of color.

[lark]

132. I didn't mention any of those names because that's not who I was referencing.

Graham, McCain, Cheney et al, are neocons who are desperately trying to get us into anohter war in the mid-east.

[golfguru]

142. Graham, McCain have no power and no majority in senate

Cheney is dead man walking. He is history, El Finito.

[lark]

146. Disagree

Why is Obama bombing Syria if not for the neocons and the MSM screaming for it? Why does war with Iran keep being brought up constantly? These men, and a whole lot of others too, are representing the 1% war profiteers who usually get what they want, so are not to be taken lightly.

[wildbilln864]

11. k & fugginn r! n/t

[Tom_Foolery]

12. You are correct, sir. n/t

[blackspade]

13. Awesome.

[AtomicKitten]

14. It's ironic that our solution for

Assad killing his own people is the US and UK killing his people.

[L0oniX]

18. It's a national mental illness. n/t

[Enthusiast]

51. That's what it is.....nt

[magical thyme]

15. K&R.

[dhill926]

16. knr.....

excellent article....

[L0oniX]

17. K & R ...I am sick of our fucked up government taking us to fucking war.

Now wait for the usual military psych "freedom isn't free" "we're protecting America" "be glad I am fighting for you" .

[sinkingfeeling]

19. Agree 100%.

[stupidicus]

20. based on a pro/con/sense/senselessness list

it does at this point appear to be a no-brainer.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/26/cia-documents-show-u-s-helped-iraq-fight-iran-despite-chemical-weapons-use/

[jeff47]

21. So....chemical weapons are just fine now?

Funny, it wasn't that long ago using chemical weapons was kind of a big deal.

So, using chemical weapons now deserves only a sternly-worded letter?

[zipplewrath]

23. Yeah, that's the rational conclusion

No, it's not "okay". However, running over and bombing people isn't necessarily the proper reaction to that.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. The world had a looong time to encourage Syria to join the Chemical Weapons Convention.

They haven't. They are not a party to the convention. So, kinda on their own there, unless they start targeting civilians intentionally.

[HumansAndResources]

117. Kadaffi did that - his son visited with Hillary - then he got a knife in the back.

Syria might have followed suit if not for that fine example of what happens when you "give up your only means of effectively fighting the NWO." CW is the only card they have to resist being colonized and enslaved by the Transnational Corporate Billionaires. Also, it is far from convincing they would use CW now - the "rebels" have far more reason to do so. The last thing TPTB want is that peace-conference to go forward.

[lark]

42. Chemical weapons by Assad doesn't mean we should support the Al-Quaeda opposition.

Sometimes there is no good option, we are not the morality police for the world!

[kiranon]

57. Agree. n/t

[Link Speed]

55. Or depleted uranium, for that matter

D U is OK because the US is using it.

That shit does not blow away with the wind, it is a gift that keeps on giving.

[questionseverything]

79. thank you for posting that

it is one of the first things i thought about when i heard all the "gas" talk,not that gas isn't horrid but that with the USA using depleted uranium we are once again hypocrites

[golfguru]

65. Yes chemical Ali was bad but cemical Assad is no big deal!

[SomethingFishy]

78. No chemical weapons are baaaaad...

When 100,000 Syrians were killed with guns, bombs, and tanks that was GOOD. We sent some arms and told people good luck in your quest. When 1400 people are killed by chemical weapons that's BAAAD and we need to gear up and attack.

So to answer your question, no apparently Chemical weapons are bad but all other weapons are good.

[Hippo_Tron]

99. How does bombing Syria improve the situation?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

22. you ignore a lot of history about "American statecraft" and diplomacy that has been occurring

since 2011 as nations aruond the world strive to find a solution to end Assad's rule and stop the civil war that is becoming an entrenched nightmare. This thing, if allowed to continue festering with no outside help, could spin out of control to rip apart the entire middle east and generate war in many countries at once.

[moonlady0623]

61. Pretty much headed that way anyway

doesn't seem anything can stop that military industrial complex

[AdHocSolver]

24. Question: Why is killing people with chemical weapons worse than killing with bullets...

...and bombs?

Possible answer: Using chemical weapons is less profitable for weapons manufacturers.

Therefore, if the Syrian regime will stick to using bullets and bombs, there won't be any need (excuse) for the U.S. to get involved.

[Jackpine Radical]

41. Napalm at least has the virtue of

being relatively expensive since it's made of gasoline plus a thickening agent, and it requires relatively expensive delivery systems for any massive use.

[BuelahWitch]

26. Have to feed that great MIC monster

He gets very hungry...

[kentuck]

27. They are gambling with a possible World War

This is very dangerous talk. A very bad feeling.

[golfguru]

68. No World War due to attack on Syria

No more than cowboy Bush attacking Iraq started a new WW.

Not one of Iraq's allies came to their aid, not Russia, not China, not Iran.

[kentuck]

73. Therefore...

These are different times. We cannot assume that Russia or China will not get involved if we attack Syria? Or that Iran will not enter the battle? Or Hezbollah? Or Israel? In my opinion, it is playing with fire.

[KamaAina]

28. Hopefully you will not have to write a book titled "War in Syria"

[Snake Plissken]

29. There is only one war we should be fighting

A war on greedy billionaires who are the cause of the vast majority of the world's problems

[avaistheone1]

32. +1000

[Zorra]

30. K&R nt

[xiamiam]

31. disgusting..out of control...lets just destroy more and cause more devastation because its

the right thing to do? by whose standards? certainly not the majority of americans. makes me sick

[MADem]

33. I don't agree. It's not a "war on Syria." It's a targeted response to a crime against humanity.

"Pretty please, don't gas people" hasn't worked to this point.

I'll stand with those socialists over in France on this issue, without any apologies.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2330282&language=en


http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2013/08/25/Hollande-to-Obama-everything-consistent-that-Syria-behind-Ghouta-attack-.html


http://www.france24.com/en/20130827-live-hollande-addresses-french-envoys-ambassadors-syria-crisis

[pkdu]

102. ^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

[fmichaelt]

35. Are we being "set up"...And by who...????

I cannot imagine that Assad is stupid enough to purposefully "rub our noses in it'" by senselessly killing a bunch of mostly civilians via gas attack!!
He cannot actually want us to get involved in what would most certainly become his personal demise .....Can he...???
And if it's NOT him...Then WHO...???
There is something happening here that we are not being informed of...but WHAT...????

[Laelth]

141. Welcome to DU.

Assad would be insane to launch a chemical attack at this time, and he's not insane. I don't believe for one second that he is responsible for the attack. Evidence may later prove me wrong, but I am not holding my breath waiting for it.

-Laelth

[kentuck]

148. Is it Putin?

He remembers the Soviet experience in Afghanistan. They spent themselves dry. That was the beginning of the end for the Soviet empire.

So, it is plausible that Russia might want the US bogged down in another war. They know from experience how everything can be neglected for war.

Putin is a slick customer.

[another_liberal]

36. I guess we'll just have to cut food stamps yet further . . .

Policing the World is far more important than assuring families living in poverty (41% of our total population) have a modicum of decent nutrition.

"We got our War!"

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

115. What you said

Our country's priorities seem to be really screwed up

[avaistheone1]

37. "If it is established beyond doubt that chemical weapons were used in Syria, either by the Assad

regime or the rebels, a response of some kind is both necessary and justified."


If established I still don't think the U.S. should get involved. We have no standing. We have a history of using chemical weapons in Fallujah, in Vietnam and God knows where else. I think we need to clean up and get our own house in order before we go off and stick our nose in any other countries' business.

Seems like there is a dearth of compassion here in the U.S. for own homeless, for the hungry, for the unemployed for the uninsured, yet an obsessive compulsion for getting mired in eternal battles of the Middle East.

[kiranon]

58. Agree. n/t

[FlyByNight]

40. Justifying the cost of the MIC

"Oh, also, cruise missiles and bombs cost a lot, so if we pull the trigger on Syria, someone will get paid handsomely." Pretty much sums everything up.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

43. They are going to pay for this with the credit of your great-great grandchildrens' credit.

[Demeter]

44. More like 200 YEARS of Stupid

it's more like Suicidal! How many mortal enemies can one country survive?

These nations aren't in the Western European tradition. They play to win, and they don't know the meaning of the word Quit.

[sweetapogee]

63. make it 3.

Three hundred years! Can someone give me 4?

[Duval]

45. K&R nt

[valerief]

46. Very rich people NEEEEEEEED to get richer. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant." Isaac Asimov

[unblock]

52. must...not...snark......must...resist...tamptation....

[Maedhros]

94. Tamptation

Is that the overwhelming urge to pat down loose soil?

[WilliamPitt]

96. Very quietly

...you win this thread.

[LongTomH]

48. "One, two, three, four! What are we fightin' for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn!"

"Next stop.....Syria?"

Doesn't rhyme! Doesn't scan! Doesn't make a lick of sense!

[Enthusiast]

49. All this nation does is throw its weight around, making the world safe for corporate dominance.

I grew up in the ideological 1950s. We thought we were the good guys. If countries wore hats our hat would have been white.

We fought the "good wars" against really bad guys like Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan.

Then, Vietnam taught us that maybe we weren't the good guys after all. Torture, Iraq and Afghanistan confirmed that we, indeed, were not the good guys. That's what George W Bush did to the nation. He ruined the US.

Why would we continue to get involved in foreign entanglements that are not in our best interest.

Now when the President says we are there to protect liberty, justice and freedom, it sounds like a sad joke. George Bush destroyed the nation's credibility.

[malaise]

50. +1,000

but the war profiteers must cash in.

[heaven05]

53. ???

I really am surprised by the number of responses here wanting some kind of amerikan military intervention. NOT! Nothing anymore surprises me about human beings and our capacity to commit one cruel act in response to another cruel act until everyone is committing cruel acts against everyone one else until 100's of thousands are killed and wounded/disabled in a major bloodletting.

[Unknown Beatle]

54. *Scratching My Head*

I'm really confused, some say it's the rebels, with help from US, using the gas and blaming Assad and some say it's Assad using the gas.

U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator

U.S. Officials Doubt Syrian Rebels’ Chemical Attack Claim

Syrian rebels 'used sarin gas', says UN’s del Ponte

Google: Rebels and Sarin

To be honest, I think it's the rebels using sarin.

[moonlady0623]

56. There's always this: let's not forget this is OUR money/debt:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/contractors-385-billion-military-bases

[bvar22]

60. 20 pounds of the "Same-Old-Shit" in a new 10 pound bag.

They are evil dictators who kill their own people !
If you're not FOR the WAR in
Vietnam
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
[font size=3] Syria,[/font]

you're WITH
The Communists
AlQaeda
The Terrorists
Saddam
Qaddafi
[font size=3] Assad

Terror! Terror! Terror!
Evil Dictators! Booga...Booga
USA....USA...USA
[/font]


Same Shit
Different Bag.

[kiranon]

62. Have the UN go in and secure the chemicals and dispose of them.

Believe Russia and China would sign off on this. Just what targets are we planning to hit? Can't hit the chemicals because they will be dispersed and kill/harm more people. Take out Assad and Al Qaeda/Hezbollah will take over and have access to chemicals. A cruise missile is the wrong way to go. Morally wrong but the U.S. is not the police force for the world especially if it won't do any good or cause even greater harm.

[golfguru]

69. You are so right about US is not world police

but what about humanitarian reasons? Are you familiar with the painful deaths caused by chemical WMD's? Is chemical Assad of Syria any better than chemical Ali of Iraq? If US will not take action to prevent future chemical attacks, then who will? UN neither has the will nor the military to take action.

[Maedhros]

95. How are we going to prevent future attacks?

What is the mission? How are our bombs going to make fewer people die?

[golfguru]

105. By punishing chemical Assad it sets an example for future bad guys

These bad guys understand only one language, severe spanking.
They just laugh when we try diplomacy.

[Maedhros]

109. Your plan is a little thin on details and long on assumptions. [n/t]

[golfguru]

111. I am NOT the military planner...I will let Sec Hagel do the details.

[HangOnKids]

112. Chemical Assad? And Spanking?

Please put away the pulp fiction it is really embarrassing.

[golfguru]

114. You know what is really embarrassing?

Feckless US response to inhumanely painful deaths of women and children by chemical poisons anywhere in the world. As the most powerful military in the world, ignoring the despot dictators using chemical WMD's is downright shameful, cowardly and feckless. .

[niyad]

127. in that case, what do you think the world's response should have been to the US use of chemical

weapons?

[HangOnKids]

130. You need to work on your short game golfguru

Many of those despots were at one time BEST BUDDIES with the US, until they weren't.

[golfguru]

134. Short game is working great!

Last week shot 76, my lowest score ever!

It really does not matter if these merciless goons were our friends or enemies.
What matters is inhumane killing and causing horrible injuries to innocent WOMEN & CHILDREN by chemical WMD's. In 2013, such atrocities can be tolerated only by feckless cowards who don't give a shyt about human suffering.

I hope you are not in that category, but reading your post, I have my doubts.

[HangOnKids]

135. I care a great deal about human suffering

Which is why I am opposed to military action with Syria. I nearly lost my oldest son in Iraq so please do not give me a lecture golf.

[golfguru]

137. The action in Syria does not have to involve military personnel

It can be done all by remote control. There will be very little chance of American lives in jeopardy.

I am genuinely sorry for loss of your son.

[HangOnKids]

138. I care about all lives.

Welcome to ignore.

[golfguru]

140. When one joins military, loss of life is always a possibility

When war happens, military personnel can get killed.

My problem is with chemical WMD attacks against civilians, including
women and children.

[niyad]

128. so, you are all in favour of a military intervention, without the least idea how it might be carried

out? will you approve of whatever is done in your name, if Hagel and the others in charge say so, because you are not the military planner?

[golfguru]

139. Only thing I am for is not letting chemical Assad get away

without a thorough spanking. Details will be upto SOD Hagel & the generals in charge. I would prefer no American boots on the ground.

[niyad]

144. wow-- a spanking? amazing concept there. so it really does not matter to you HOW they go about

administering this "spanking"?? well, except for no boots on the ground, eh? you still have not answered the question about what you think the rest of the world should do about this govt's use of chemical weapons. do you think this govt should be "spanked" as well, and would you be willing to let the military planners in other countries decide how to administer that "spanking"?? or, is this govt not to be held to the standards it demands of others?

[RobinA]

131. The Setting of Examples

for future bad guys doesn't seem to be very effective, based on some pretty recent history. The example thing tends not to work for bad guys, them being bad guys and all.

[golfguru]

136. Do you recall the sudden turn around by Gaddafi?

After his tent was bombed, he suddenly becomes cooperative with US.

Do you remember attempted bombing of twin towers long before 911?
Do you remember bombings of American embassies in Africa?
Do you remember bombing of US Naval ship in Yemen?

Our response was tepid and a slap on the wrist.
Then we get 911.

After Osama is run out of Afghanistan and Taliban demolished there,
no more attacks in US for a decade.

Oh yes, the bad guys only fear one thing, a bigger & more powerful adversary,
who is not afraid to retaliate. I grew up in South Asia. I know the mentality of
these goons.

[golfguru]

64. We should attack Syria for humanitarian reasons

Chemical Assad of Syria is no better than Chemical Ali of Iraq.

[PaulKersey]

67. really?

[Junkdrawer]

70. What's old is new again....

You mean you don't remember the Iraqi success story?

We were *this* close to being WMD'd. And a stable, thriving Iraq is eternally grateful.

Honest.

[WilliamPitt]

71. Ow.

My brain.

What site am I on?

[golfguru]

72. What is your solution to prevent future chemical attacks on humans?

Just let Assad get away with it? How will that dissuade a future despot & dictator from causing indescribable painful deaths by chemical WMD's?
Please read up on effects of various chemical WMD's on the human body.
Are we so feckless to have no will to prevent such inhuman atrocities?

[trumad]

77. Hey---let's let someone else take care of it for a change---like the UN.

Why the fuck do we have to jump in every fucking time.

[totodeinhere]

86. The UN will not act because the Russians and Chinese have the veto power. n/t

[Fuddnik]

89. Because nobody else is as stoopid as us.

[totodeinhere]

85. If there is conclusive proof that Assad is behind the chemical attacks then we take him to the ICC.

They have the power to indict a sitting head of state. That would be the civilized response. Throwing around a bunch of bombs and missiles is not a civilized response and will probably backfire resorting in more violence in the long run.

[golfguru]

143. Where was the civilized response when 2 million Africans

were slaughtered in tribal wars not that long ago?

Unfortunate reality is organizations like UN are impotent.
The security council has too many veto powers. Russia & China don't
care about human rights. Stalin & Mao killed far more civilians
than Hitler.

Only US and perhaps UK have the military and will power to exert justice
against despots who mercilessly slaughter innocent civilians including
women and children using WMD's.

[totodeinhere]

147. The West doesn't care about human rights either. They do care about oil, propping

up Zionism, and feeding the military industrial complex however. I advised taking it to the ICC where the Russians and Chinese do not have veto power. Whether the Russians care about human rights or not, cowboy diplomacy is the wrong thing to do and I had thought when I voted for Barack Obama that I was voting against that sort of thing.

[golfguru]

149. Does ICC have any enforcement powers?

Note that laws are worthless unless there is power to enforce them.
I must admit I do not know what military capabilities are available to ICC.
Dictators such as Assad are not going to obey anyone who has no military
power to enforce their verdict.

[totodeinhere]

150. The ICC itself does not do enforcement, but signatories to the Rome accord

are obliged to enforce the edicts of the court such as when Nigeria extradited Charles Taylor. Of course the United Sates is not a party to the court. Bush refused to sing off on it out of fear that many members of his administration and perhaps he himself might be indicted by the court. Israel also did not ratify it for similar reasons. It is very disappointing that Obama has not reversed course on that Bush policy. That's one reason why IMO we don't have the moral authority to go around making accusations about human rights violations in other countries. So yes we need to become a party to the court and refer Assad to it.

[PassingFair]

123. Yes! If Assad kills 50 of his own people...

We'll take out 50,000 of them! Shock $ Awe baby! Do I need this:

[live love laugh]

75. Do you understand that people will be killed when we attack?

What's the difference between Chemical Assaud killing them and the US?

[golfguru]

107. Please read my post #106....eom

[fascisthunter]

88. yes, more war is like... so "humanitarian" dude

[golfguru]

106. You are overlooking the difference

between brutal deaths of CIVILIANS, WOMEN & CHILDREN by chemical WMD's

-and-

military targets attacked by our military.....such as Syrian military planes, weapons stockpiles, command & control centers etc. That does not guarantee a few innocents won't get killed, but it will set an example to future dictators as to what happens when they use chemical WMD's on civilians. I do not wish death by chemical WMD's on my worst enemies.

[fascisthunter]

154. no, I'm not

[backscatter712]

93. Yep! Let's turn people into fine red mist for compassionate reasons.

Makes sense to me!

[DeSwiss]

76. K&R

[Ocelot]

80. It would certainly put discussion of NSA abuses on the back news burner

Kind of convenient that way, for certain individuals/entities and their agenda.

[Civilization2]

81. Corporate-mercenary war-mongers are the only ones who will gain from more war,. .

Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

― Bill Hicks

[yellowwoodII]

82. Obama People

I've considered myself an Obama supporter ever since I saw him in Illinois. If he takes us into another war, I will not support him any more.

[Warpy]

83. Thank you

This is just Not Our Fight.

[The Green Manalishi]

84. There is no excuse for going to war.

There never has been. Anywhere. Ever.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

87. Some people are bending to the Republicans on this

what pipeline.

and we the taxpayers have to pay for this.

[Amonester]

90. All the while Climate Change keeps up changing

the climate

more

and

more

each minute

[Phlem]

91. K&R!

-p

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

92. Time for a general strike.

[MrMickeysMom]

97. I would like to point out to folks about the link in your article, Wm...

In which you can say "NO" to humanitarian imperialism in Iran and Syria...

I linked and joined others there...

[WilliamPitt]

98. Thanks.

Love your sig.

[jazzimov]

100. But what happens when all Diplomatic options fail?

What if there are no "good" options left?

This is not GW, who led us into a War no body wanted for trumped-up reasons. Indeed, this President isn't even talking about War.

I'm glad we're talking about this, because it's not a decision that should be made lightly. But it's obvious we have to do SOMETHING.

That SOMETHING is what is important. I DO NOT support all-out war. I DO support some kind of military action, We've got to do SOMETHING!

WAR? No. Action? Yes.

[WilliamPitt]

103. Let's try those diplomatic options first

i.e heavy pressure on Iran, Russia, and Saudi Arabia - the principal actors behind the scenes - before trying to see around corners to what happens after what we haven't tried yet fails.

Y'know, for a refreshing change of pace.

[SHRED]

101. Thank you William!

[totodeinhere]

104. A punitive war is a bad idea.

That's something I'm betting the Norwegian Nobel Committee never would have predicted a recipient of their peace prize engaging in. This is not defensive war, since the Assad regime doesn't present even the remotest threat to America. It isn't a humanitarian war either, since U.S. airstrikes won't cripple the Assad regime's military capacity and may even get more civilians killed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-glaser/obamas-war-of-choice-in-s_b_3822652.html

[polynomial]

108. Yes stand down now

Stand down in Syria get the hell out of Afghanistan stop all war machine stuff now. It is only my opinion I don’t care what happens in that part of the world. America has far too many issues and problems here at home. The international community needs to take charge. Like one news radio talk show called our military should use drowns to take out and level the Syrian presidential palace and the leader a stinker. The United Nations should decide about drown strike not an American president.

Why the United Nations because they are the combined Democracy we are part of. America needs to start making decisions with the world we are part of. For today’s politicians Its all about money, if it was about Democracy the 911 hijackers would have likely crashed into the United Nations building but they choose the Twin Towers that had the seriously centered bond trading stock market connection to the Bush administration. The Iraq war was the profiteering war of the new millennium and if not honestly addressed America will never develop into the country of life liberty and pursuit of happiness anyone might dream about, except the one percenters get it all.

[suffragette]

110. Seems we're still following the PNAC list, even with Tony Blair cheering along again.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

113. K&R.

[arikara]

116. Peace

[SkyDaddy7]

118. There is no "statecraft"

that convinces Assad to stop torturing to death little kids & shipping their bodies back to their parents. We should just forget that place exist & get back to worrying about whether or not Miley Cyrus is a bad little girl.

[steve2470]

119. The thing that really bothers me about the entire Syria discussion (by some) is the disconnection

I've watched many war documentaries about World War II (my Dad was Patton artillery in it, in Europe), and they make a very strong effort to show you the REAL effects of war.

Many many many dead bodies. In various states of decay and dismemberment. I'll stop there.

War is DEATH. Yes, I know, crushingly obvious to even the most cognitively-impaired but the discussion by some seems to gloss over that simple fact.

When is it worthwhile for people to die ? That's an extremely difficult question for me to answer. World War II, by an overwhelming margin, is regarded in this country as a just and moral war. I agree with that assessment, despite the fact that many of our citizens died in that war.

Have we had a WW2-like situation in the last 68 years ? Not by my knowledge. Syria is not like WW2 by any stretch of the imagination. It is a horrific civil war where atrocities and war crimes have been perpetuated by BOTH sides. I just don't think intervening in a civil war is a good idea (see: Vietnam).

Am I willing to go to Syria and die for someone's cause over there ? Fuck no. Do I want to send my son, at age 18, or someone else's kid or grandkid to die over there ? Fuck no. Our involvement, in my opinion, would not simply stop at bombing or shelling. There would eventually be strong pressure for boots on the ground.

Bombing and shelling from the sea WOULD cause innocent people to die, for what good effect ? None, long term.

This.Is.Not.A.World.War.II.Situation. Yes, chemical weapons are horrible, but so are bullets, bombs, shells and the other forms of weapons.

Before you waste your time, note that my mind is 100% made up. This issue is close to my heart, since my son turns 18 in January.

Have a lovely day, DU. Peace.

[blkmusclmachine]

120. BUT ... SOMEBODY'S got to make some $$$ off this Syria thing.

Leave no good money-making opportunity unexploited!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Javaman]

121. Thanks Will. :) nt

[ladyVet]

122. It's not even a 10 lb bag.

More like 5 lbs, or in modern sales, 4.5 lbs. Great value! Still same low price!

[SmittynMo]

124. Why is it always our job to fix the worlds problems?

It's time we changed this. Especially since we're broke from the last several wars. Did we not learn anything? It sure cost us a lot of money to kill 2 people.

[marble falls]

125. Will, have you seen this?

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-punitive-strikes-20130827,0,5176333.story

[mountain grammy]

126. As my husband keeps reminding me.. we haven't attacked Syria.

He's convinced we won't. Until something happens, I'm with him, holding on to my trust in Obama, Hagel and Kerry to not do the wrong think here.

[niyad]

129. the war prayer (listening to the drumbeat, time to dig this out again)

The War Prayer
by Mark Twain

It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fulttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory with stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener.

It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety’s sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came — next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams — visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender!

Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:

God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest,
Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!

Then came the “long” prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory —

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher’s side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, “Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord and God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!”

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside — which the startled minister did — and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

“I come from the Throne — bearing a message from Almighty God!” The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. “He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import — that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of — except he pause and think. “God’s servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two — one uttered, and the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this — keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon your neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain on your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse on some neighbor’s crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

“You have heard your servant’s prayer — the uttered part of it. I am commissioned by God to put into words the other part of it — that part which the pastor — and also you in your hearts — fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard the words ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory — must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

“Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it —

For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!

We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(After a pause.) “Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits.”

…

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

[cherokeeprogressive]

145. It's not "war" Will, it's "a slap across the face". A "warning", if you will.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023552966#post9