German Jewish Group Calls For Boycott Of Roger Waters Concert Over Star of David Symbol On Pig

[Purveyor]

BY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS AUGUST 29, 2013 1:40 PM

BERLIN - A Jewish group in the German city of Duesseldorf is urging a boycott of an upcoming concert by former Pink Floyd band member Roger Waters for using an inflatable pig featuring a Star of David during his show.

The director of the Jewish Community in Duesseldorf, Michael Szentei-Heise, said in a statement Thursday that Waters was an "intellectual arsonist" whose stage act used "anti-Semitic and National Socialist" imagery.

--CLIP
The English musician has previously rebuffed critics of the show, which has been performed about 200 times in the last three years, by saying it isn't intended to be anti-Semitic.

The inflatable pig also features other religious, political and corporate symbols.

MORE...

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/world/German+Jewish+group+calls+boycott+Roger+Waters+concert+over/8848300/story.html

[leftynyc]

1. Waters is an asshole

The Star of David isn't just for Israel - it's a symbol for all Jews so he managed to piss off plenty of Jews who would have supported his position otherwise. Stupid.

[JackRiddler]

26. This thread is nonsense.

Ah, the little ever-so relevant bit that's pushed to the bottom of the article:

"The inflatable pig also features other religious, political and corporate symbols."

Done and done. It's about the pig-power of politicians, businesses and organized religions. No one's sacred pig is special.

If it was an Islamic group complaining about a crescent moon included along with symbols of other (insane monotheist) religions on a pig in a rock show, I bet the same people professing to be so appalled by Waters on this thread would instead be decrying the medieval Muslims' latest assault on free speech and artistic freedom.

[leftynyc]

31. I can't speak to

whether other people would be upset - that's certainly their right. I can tell you that putting a Star of David on a pig was moronic - I seriously couldn't care less what else was on the pig.

[anneboleyn]

37. Yes. Waters has never been shy about his atheism and his feelings about religion

in general as a negative cultural force. The pig has various religious symbols on it -- the point is that Waters is critical of religion period (not one in particular).

[malaise]

50. Great post

Wish I could rec

[KamaAina]

2. What color is the Star of David?

This actually matters. Blue = Israel. Yellow = Nazi imagery. The first is contemptible, the second despicable.

[SomethingFishy]

5. It's RED.

Like all the other logos and religious symbols in the show.

The fact that it's being misinterpreted makes me think that this work of art is doing it's job.

[KamaAina]

52. It could still be interpreted as "Jews control the world along with the corporations"

and the other institutions represented on the pig.

Plus there's the whole pork-isn't-kosher thing.

[SomethingFishy]

3. Again?

The pig also has Christian Crosses, Mercedes Logo, Shell Oil Logo, McDonalds Logo and many others on it. As a Jew I was not offended in the least.

Matter of fact I came out of that show more of a humanitarian then I was when I went in. Better stop him fast before he makes more people THINK.

Yeah Waters is an asshole and Miley Cyrus is what we listen to now.

[cali]

8. does it have crosses? It changes the context significantly

if the star of david isn't the only religious symbol. Reports I just read all claim that it was the only religious symbol.

[SomethingFishy]

9. That's bullshit. I have seen the show 3 times.

There is all sorts of religious and corporate symbolism throughout the entire show. During Goodbye Blue Sky bombers fly across the screen dropping Crosses, Stars Of David and Corporate Logos instead of bombs.

Believe me, The Wall show is a triumph of liberalism, from the war ravaged people shown during The Thin Ice, to the use of the Wiki leaks video during Run Like Hell, to the thousands of photos of relatives who died in war, sent in by fans and shown during the intermission, Waters is out to move people, to make them think, and to break down the Walls that divide people. It's not much of a surprise that he is being attacked.... again.

And as an aside the Anti-Defemation League has agreed that there is no anti-semetic intent in Waters use of the Star Of David.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Throughout the show, but specifically on the pig? You are not clear and it is important

Waters is a man who can not even get along with the collaborators who made him famous and rich so when he starts to preaching while selling vastly expensive tickets, I have to ask a few questions. Waters is out to make bank, first and last. The imagery used might be art, it might be exploitation of images for the sake of Water's own profit, the show is about how bad it is for others to be commercial, while Waters makes untold millions fro that show. Tis what it tis.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

11. You've shown that you don't know the first thing about Roger Waters.

Thank you.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Where am I wrong? Is his show non for profit? Is he not the king of suing his former

collaborators? Is any use of war imagery always art or is it possible that it is just exploitation to sell more tickets? He does make millions off his products which criticize products which make millions. Does he put his own logos on pigs and show his logo dropping from a bomber? If not, why not?
He makes product, he sells it at high prices. That product might be 'anti war' or it might just have war porn. The fact that he profits from the use of the images does put some ethical brackets around his work's narrative of being opposed to Big Business and exploitation for profit.
And by the way. I asked a question. It went unanswered but you added some snark. Personally I don't take his rich man's word that all he does is Christ like pure.

[Orrex]

21. Waters has been sharply anti-war for decades, probably for his whole life.

Pretty much his entire body of work is an indictment of war and the pro-war mentality. By your reasoning, Michael Moore isn't pro-worker but is in fact a purveyor of pro-worker porn.

No one--least of all Roger Waters--thinks that he's "Christ like pure," but it's simply foolish to criticize him for affecting a false anti-war stance.


Your open hostility is curious.

[SomethingFishy]

19. Really?

His "collaborators" made him rich? Yeah he had nothing to do with it. No talent whatsoever.

Waters is out to make BANK? Yeah, costs on the first year of the Wall tour ran over 60 million. They are out for a third year in a row so they can actually profit from the tour.

Waters is not an anti-semite. You can spew all the crap you want about him suing his bandmates and being "greedy", all it shows is you really have no idea what you are talking about.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. He became rich and famous with collaborators with whom he can not get

along. So he's the guy to tell others how to get along. He sells shit tons of logo products. So he's the guy to criticize logo products.
I never said he is anti semitic I said he's a greedy and not very good with people. Those are not the same things, and it is not fair to put words into my mouth. At all. So please do not do that.
Waters is worth about 300 million so yeah, BANK. Don't you think that is a goodly sum? He's worth a fortune, he is not struggling to make profit.
If artists wish to show others how to change the world, first they have to learn to get along and to get by with less than a few hundred millions. When they preach that others should do what they can not, it is a wasted sermon.
Again, I asked about the pig, I did not say the man was anti simetic and I doubt that he is. He is however a rich loudmouth who is not really nice to others and uses a different standard for himself than he does for others. Is that also not allowed in your universe, to not care for the tee shirt sales man?

[DontTreadOnMe]

41. "He became rich and famous with collaborators with whom he can not get along"

Are you talking about The Beatles or Pink Floyd?

The pig?... yeah, it's a song about pork. Dylan wrote songs about sausage.

I am waiting for you to call Water's a Fascist.

[Rex]

25. You sound like a scorned agent!

Wow bitter much!? You are not pointing out anything in the least bit, but your own personal vendetta against him. Did he refuse to sign your backpack?

[deutsey]

39. "the bleeding hearts and artists take their stand"

All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall.


"Outside the Wall" from the album The Wall

[Violet_Crumble]

46. I'm not a fan of Roger Waters, but he uses many symbols on the pig...

And because the Star of David's a major part of the Israeli flag, it's also a national symbol like the Union Jack is or something like that. Mr Waters is very critical of Israel's policies and I'd suspect that's why the symbol was used. I held my nose and read the thread on it in the I/P forum yesterday and found this article where the ADL say that using the image on the pig isn't anti-Semitic...

The Jewish watchdog Anti-Defamation League has defended British rock star Roger Waters, a critic of Israel, after he released a pig-shaped balloon decorated with a Star of David over his stage performance of The Wall.


The stunt, performed at a show in Belgium, angered other Jewish organisations including the Simon Wiesenthal Centre who called Waters - a well-known activist in the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel - "an open hater of Jews".

Israelis in Belgium were reportedly shocked at the sight of the Star of David on the blowup pig.

"That was the only religious-national symbol which appeared among other symbols for fascism, dictatorship and oppression of people,"Alon Onfus Asif told daily Yediot Ahronot. "Waters crossed the line and gave expression to an anti-Semitic message, beyond all his messages of anti-militancy."

But the Anti-Defamation League said that the pig was not new and in context was not anti-Semitic.


"This is the same thing he's been doing for years," said Todd Gutnick, director of media relations. "We believe there's no anti-Semitic intent here in the use of the Star of David symbol."


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/494580/20130725/roger-waters-star-david-pig-baloon-antisemitic.htm

[dionysus]

4. he had an anti bush message on the pig when i saw his show.

[SomethingFishy]

6. Had an anti-Bush message and dropped "vote Obama" leaflets

on the Dark Side Of The Moon tour he did a few years ago...

[dionysus]

15. that was the tour i saw! tweeter center in mass

[cali]

7. it's the only religious symbol on the pig

if there were other religious symbols, it would be a more generalized slam against religion, and the pig does have written on it in large letters, "religion divide", but there's no cross or crescent or symbol of any other religion.

[bunnies]

12. Other images from the show:

I dont think he left anyone out.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. He seems to have left out his own logos, which are for sale in the lobby

Roger '300 Million Dollars' Waters sells logo merchandise like crazy and he's not a cottage industry, he's Super Rich.
http://rogerwaters.com/shop.php

[dionysus]

16. so? what's your point?

[Orrex]

17. Because nothing is worse than someone making money based on a lifetime of work

[Bluenorthwest]

20. The comment I resonded to said he did not leave any logos out

but he did not use his own because he sells 'cammo gear' look shirts with his logo and 30 dollar tee shirts with his logos. I was not aware that his life's work was the selling of logo shirts. Thought he was a musician.
Making money is fine. Claiming your money is pure but those others who sell logo shirts are bad is just hypocrisy. I guess he does not care for the competition from other sellers of spendy logo crap?

[Orrex]

24. So you're criticizing him for not attacking himself? What?

Your notion of the nobly starving musician is adorable and quaint.

Claiming your money is pure but those others who sell logo shirts are bad is just hypocrisy.

I'm sure it's exactly as simple and black-and-white as you imagine.

Do you see no difference between a musician selling merchandise in support of his work and an athlete getting million-dollar endorsement deals just because he happens to wear shoes?

[Rex]

28. The sour grapes are strong with that one.

Yes...he should be flogging himself in public and burning money with a lighter...also I have NEVER seen his logo, but I've seen all those others ALL MY LIFE!

I am all for rockstars flogging themselves in public...because Jimmy wouldn't sign my arm in 71.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Do you not see a difference between 'a musician selling mechandise

in support of his work' and a guy worth hundreds of millions selling over priced crap to his fans to add to the pile of cash? Supporting his work? That's just hilarious. Sorry but it is.
There is no actual difference between what he does and what other logo merchants do. He is not different from the athletes, both are performers making side money selling crap to people who like their work. It's perfectly fine, but not fine to criticize one person for doing what you also do. He's a corporate entity, he keeps almost all the money personally and lots of it comes from selling 5 dollar shirts for 30 to people who do not have 300 million.
He'd be rich as hell without ever hawking bogus crap to people who like his music. That's just fact. The choice to hawk is one he made, and I do not care for it. Sorry if that bugs you so.

[chelsea0011]

54. Way back when Pink Floyd did their Dark Side of the Moon tour

and when Money played they made fun of themselves by spinning their record on the video screen. So what that he makes money. You seem to be upset that he somehow believes his money isn't tainted. They knew many years ago when they hit it big and they were showered with money that they had become corporate. He has never claimed his money is "pure". I don't even understand your point there. And you really need to read up on why Pink Floyd broke up. There was much blame all around. Gilmour and Waters have both apologized for their behavior. Oh. The money began to shower on the Pink Floyd members when Waters became the lead songwriter. The Wall has made the members rich many times over.

[bunnies]

18. Of course he's super rich.

He's a rock star. A legendary one at that. Rock stars make money.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. But he did not include his own logos in the show because he sells his logos

in the lobby. His website is full of overpriced 'protest brand' tee shirts and mugs same as any Nike store.
An artist would include his own marketing 'art' in the criticism of other marketing 'art' rather than claiming his products are not the same as the other logo soaked over priced crap.
You said he did not leave anyone out. But he spared his own marketing tactics, did he not? Why yes. Are his products different from other logo goods? Why no.
That's the whole point. He is free to exploit the market for profit, but that does mitigate his standing when he enters preacher mode.
How about a balloon of Waters and his trademark lawyers fucking like rabbits? That's art.

[bunnies]

32. I was referring to the religious symbols, actually.

And I dont have an issue with him selling merchandise. Every band does it. So unless the stuff is made in a sweatshop somewhere, I really dont see who he's exploiting.

adding: and what "logo" are you talking about? The wall? The hammers? Waters doesnt even have a logo.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. We don't have to agree on this, but when you sell a shirt for an extra

20 dollars because you put your logo on it that is exploitative of the fans and of the materials you make use of to draw them in. The way they write 'The Wall' in that script style? That's a logo. It allows the sale of a 3 dollar mug for 15. It is a choice he makes as a business person. I am not fond of that choice and find it very odd considering his dislike of marketing logos that are not his own.
This started with me asking if he put other symbols on the pig or just the David Star. I heard many things about how great he is, how he's barely making a dime, and how the shirts 'support his art' which were hilarious, but I still don't know about the pig.
Musicians in general have a tendency to tell others how to run the world while they can't manage to run their own any differently. The Dead did not sell so much crap, nor did they sue people who bootlegged a show or performed a song at a club. If he can not get along with his own mates, why does the think he's the guy to tell nations how to get along? Just saying. Physician, heal thy self.
If they were Pink Floyd, maybe they'd not need to sell shirts for the extra hundred million Roger wants. But they are not Floyd because they bicker and quarrel over who owns what. It is ironic.
Is there no such thing as rich enough? When do you stop socking it to folks for a few bucks? 400 million? A billion? If he can't stop it, why does he think others can or should or want to?

[bunnies]

51. I do understand what youre saying.

Lets get the pig out of the way first. Ive probably looked at 50 photos of the damn thing by now and the star is the only religious symbol Ive seen on it. The rest of the show hits on all the other religions though, fwiw.

Now back to the overpriced shit. I get it. Ive been to a few shows recently and the prices really make me sick. Really? A $50.00 tank top? An $80.00 sweat shirt? Its fucking ridiculous. I really wanted a shirt from a couple of them too but... no way in hell am I paying that much. I already forked out 60 or 100 bucks for the damn ticket. I REFUSE to buy a $50.00 girl shirt. Theres no reason on the planet to charge that much. But as long as people get in line to pay it, which they do, theres no way the prices are going to get any lower. Its capitalism, after all.

And if the crux of what youre saying is that he's a hypocrite... I agree with you.

[Enthusiast]

55. Well,

I love Pink Floyd and all the members, including Waters.

[sufrommich]

23. Has this thread devolved into a Team Waters/Team Gilmour

thread yet? Because I've read Saucerful of Secrets and I'm with Team Gilmour,Waters is a bit of an ass.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Welcome!

Waters is a bit of an ass, but folks here don't care to hear it.

[sufrommich]

33. I don't really have a problem with Waters politics, though

or his choice to make money, I just don't think he's the sole talent behind Pink Floyd others think he is,I think he thinks he is though.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. I dont have a problem with his politics either as far as I know

And making money is great. But he pretends his business profits are not the same as the profits of others, but they are. It is his smugness and lack of self examination that leave me cold. Everybody's wrong but Roger.

[sufrommich]

44. I agree with your description of Waters. nt

[zappaman]

47. Interestingly enough...

In the last couple of years, he has admitted that he was an asshole quite a bit and that is why he has reached out and mended fences with Gilmour.
As we age, we sometimes realize how stupid we were sometimes in our younger days and Waters seems to have made amends.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. That's good. I thought I read that after the Olympics performance with Gilmour he made some other

crack about him, but I could be wrong.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. He's come off as quite a jerk, over the years, by many accounts.

Still I think he's done some good solo work, too. Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking is a great album.

[Orrex]

30. Maybe, but Gilmour's lyrics are on par with Miley Cyrus'

Waters has also mellowed considerably over the years. I think he'd agree that he's a bit of an ass during those years.

[sufrommich]

35. Well, I'm not sure Gilmour has twerking down yet, but

I can dream.

[Orrex]

36. There's time. He's still young.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Just fyi, I had to spend time in a room with him years ago and he was

many things, 'bit of an ass' is being nice about it. I will not repeat what I heard him call someone, but I also will not forget it, and when I see him preach I wonder if he still speaks like that to others and if he still makes use of some of the language he lashed out with.
Just saying, I have a very bad impression of him as a person. I was shocked then because I so loved Animals. I was not only shocked, I was hurt and a bit crushed, although it was not directed at me.
I'm glad some can still enjoy him and I will not spoil his precious image here any more because it was years ago and my only contact with him, he may have evolved and all that. One would hope.

[JackRiddler]

45. His image has nothing to do with Animals...

or any of the albums.

They stand on their own.

[hobbit709]

48. I could fill a football stadium with all the musicians I've met who were asses.

Doesn't detract from their music but if you want to have your cow over it, go right ahead.
p.s. when's the BBQ?

[Warren DeMontague]

59. The stuff where his Girlfriend wrote the lyrics was a bit Spinal Tap-esque

however, the incredible guitar work makes up for a lot of it. There was a solo thing he did about 6 years ago that I quite enjoyed, too.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Heh heh. Me? I'm on Team Jerry.

Love PF's music but those gents all would do well to get over themselves. And maybe not take themselves so seriously in the process.

That's what being part of something bigger than just you ought to be.

That said, Gilmour's guitar work is certainly one of a kind, and I've appreciated some of his solo work.

[DontTreadOnMe]

42. Comfortably Twerking?

Interstellar Overdrive

[Agnosticsherbet]

49. He should consider adding a 1000 gallon piss christ to his stage act.

Because the pig as a symbol seems a little to subtle.

If the pig only had a Magen David, that would be a statement about just one gropu. But it is clearly a symbol for the darker side of Religion and corporatism.

[KinMd]

56. Any verses from the Koran on the same pig? ...I didn't think so

[Scootaloo]

53. But I thought boycotts were evil, terrible things!

Intellectual arsonist? National Socialist imagery?

Now hey, if people want to boycott something, that doesn't bother me at all, do as you like, it's your deutschmark. But really? Intellectual arson? National Socialist imagery? One might wonder if Mr. Szentei-heise knows what the fuck national Socialism even is, beyond a pair of words that he thinks can get people angry.

[Sunlei]

57. pig is the Israel FLAG! members of my family are Jewish and we want the same FREE PALESTINE

[Warren DeMontague]

60. I think the Rhetoric is a bit hyperbolic.

I think a lot of it has to do with Waters's criticism of Israel, which one can agree or disagree with... And if people want to boycott his show because they don't agree with the politics, hey, that's totally legit.

But the pigs are obviously a Pink Floyd thing and the Star of David was a part of a larger sequence of symbols..

A valid criticism can be made if it really was the ONLY religious symbol shown, that said, I still don't feel this rises to the level of outrage, much less "Nazi Imagery" (Hello, Godwin!)

And I say that as someone from a Jewish background.