No decison? Bullshit. What Kerry and Obama did today was make the case

[cali]

for military action against Syria. Any spin to the contrary is laughable.

Obama and Kerry Press Case for U.S. Action in Syria

The Obama administration on Friday forcefully presented a case for a strike on Syria, as President Obama said he was considering a “limited” attack and Secretary of State John Kerry declared there was “clear” and “compelling” evidence that the government of President Bashar al-Assad had used poison gas against its citizens.

<snip>

The president said he was continuing to consult with Congress and allies in other countries, but said that any attack would not involve American troops on the ground in Syria.

“We’re not considering any open-ended commitment. We’re not considering any boots on the ground approach,” Mr. Obama told reporters before meeting with Baltic leaders in the White House. He said he had “not made any decisions” about what actions the United States would take in Syria.

Mr. Kerry said the administration had “high confidence” in the intelligence, much of which was being released to the public as he spoke. But he vowed that the government had carefully reviewed the evidence to avoid the kind of intelligence failures that preceded the Iraq war.

<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/31/world/middleeast/john-kerry-syria.html?_r=0


President Obama said Friday that the U.S. has determined with high confidence the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its own people, as the White House released a four-page report summarizing their case against the Bashar Assad regime.

"This kind of attack is a challenge to the world," Obama said. "We cannot accept a world where women and children and innocent civilians are gassed on a terrible scale."

Obama repeated on Friday that he has still not made a final determination on whether the U.S. will carry out a punitive military strike against Syria, but a senior defense official told USA TODAY that military leaders are preparing for an imminent strike.

<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/08/30/kerry-syria-chemical-weapons-obama/2742369/

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. of course they are preparing for that....doesn't mean it will happen...

[cali]

3. making the case goes well beyond preparation.

the military strikes were prepared days ago.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. You don't know much about the military do you?

[MNBrewer]

8. U.S. military "ready" to attack Syria, Hagel says

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57600235/u.s-military-ready-to-attack-syria-hagel-says/

Mr. Hagel might, though...

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. Of course they are preparing....how are you surprised by that?

I want them to be prepared should that be the ultimate decision....don't you?

[cali]

12. one more time: there is a significant difference between preparing and

trying to sell an attack to the American people. They've done the former, today they were working on the latter.

this isn't rocket science.

[delrem]

26. My hope is that the US's isolate position on this will cause a rethink.

The US launders "morality" behind the notion that it's only one part of a coalition.

On the other hand, Obama, Biden and Kerry are showing brand new neo-con faces and ladling out the kool-aid, and that's more than worrying.

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. the military doesn't sell it....they just prepare for it..

You are right...and rocket science is not your forte.

[MNBrewer]

13. I most certainly do not.

I do not want them to be prepared, should that be the ultimate decision. I completely oppose any attack under these circumstances.

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. You do not want your military prepared for a war?

are you serious?

[markpkessinger]

37. I don't think Cali was talking about the military's preparations . . .

. . . I think she was talking about the the sales pitch given by the President and Secretary of State to the American people. You can rest assured that if our civilian leaders are at the point of pitching a particular course of action to the public, a decision has most certainly already been made, and the point of the pitch is to enlist support from the public.

You don't know much about civilian government, do you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. I know that the military has LONG had targets in Syria to strike....its in computers already...

As I said the military doesn't have to sell it...thats not their job. Their job is to prepare for it...

[cali]

11. enough to know that a) this is about the political side of things

and b) more than you as you can't even parse that, dear.

[dogknob]

2. With that logic, maybe he should bomb Monsanto. n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

51. +1000 !!!!

[Catherina]

61. +1! n/t

[bowens43]

5. They attempted to make a case but failed

[woo me with science]

14. +1

[snappyturtle]

6. I think that's exactly what they did...making the case to go to war.

Trust us....evidence...and what will the world think of us if we don't?
That's fairly clear... the intentions. I believe they know what's going
to happen and need a bit more time to get ready in this hurried
push. imho

edit: I really don't believe we should go to war. I'm more afraid of
responses than the strikes themselves.

[MNBrewer]

7. UGH

such manipulative language

I don't buy it, Mr. President.

[Whisp]

21. now what Have you bought from the President lately?

If I'm not mistaken, it's been No Sale for a long time now, on everything Obama.

[MNBrewer]

23. I bought a load of Hope and Change directly from candidate Obama

when I saw him speak at the Xcel Center in St. Paul, MN the night he clinched the Democratic nomination. I upped my order from him on Election Eve when he won his first election. I even put in a 3rd order for the second election.

But I've wound up being pretty disappointed with the goods I was sold. The features just don't work as advertised.

[leftstreet]

10. Their case is so shitty they made it a Friday News Dump

Constitutional scholars and great statesmen indeed

[woo me with science]

15. Indeed. nt

[daa]

16. Only to you

[cali]

17. and the NYT and USA today and virtually every media outlet.

duh.

[daa]

35. Same media lapdogs that got us in the last quagmire duh. Nt

[markpkessinger]

38. When a President and his Secretary of State deliver a sales pitch for a particular course of action

. . . they do so in order to enlist public support for the course of action they have already decided to undertake. And that applies to any President, of any party, of any country.

[FirstLight]

18. So it's a done deal basically...

These words:

"We cannot accept a world where women and children and innocent civilians are ...."

gassed.....How about bombed, droned, collaterally damaged...it's all the same! WTF? The people that will suffer from airstrikes are just as important and those supposedly gassed.

You know, if he keeps this up, he'd better think about giving back that Nobel Peace Prize, because he doesn't deserve it.

[cali]

19. It certainly appears to be a done deal. the ridiculous assertions here

to the contrary are fantasy.

[Ghost Dog]

29. The agenda would appear to be on-track, but clearly 'unilateral'.

The Guardian last year printed interesting research on who's who in the Syrian 'opposition'. Eg. from a long article:

The most quoted of the opposition spokespeople are the official representatives of the Syrian National Council. The SNC is not the only Syrian opposition group – but it is generally recognised as "the main opposition coalition" (BBC). The Washington Times describes it as "an umbrella group of rival factions based outside Syria". Certainly the SNC is the opposition group that's had the closest dealings with western powers – and has called for foreign intervention from the early stages of the uprising. In February of this year, at the opening of the Friends of Syria summit in Tunisia, William Hague declared: "I will meet leaders of the Syrian National Council in a few minutes' time … We, in common with other nations, will now treat them and recognise them as a legitimate representative of the Syrian people."

The most senior of the SNC's official spokespeople is the Paris-based Syrian academic Bassma Kodmani.

Here is Bassma Kodmani, seen leaving this year's Bilderberg conference in Chantilly, Virginia. Kodmani is a member of the executive bureau and head of foreign affairs, Syrian National Council. Kodmani is close to the centre of the SNC power structure, and one of the council's most vocal spokespeople. "No dialogue with the ruling regime is possible. We can only discuss how to move on to a different political system," she declared this week. And here she is, quoted by the newswire AFP: "The next step needs to be a resolution under Chapter VII, which allows for the use of all legitimate means, coercive means, embargo on arms, as well as the use of force to oblige the regime to comply."...This year was Kodmani's second Bilderberg. At the 2008 conference, Kodmani was listed as French; by 2012, her Frenchness had fallen away and she was listed simply as "international" – her homeland had become the world of international relations.

Back a few years, in 2005, Kodmani was working for the Ford Foundation in Cairo, where she was director of their governance and international co-operation programme. The Ford Foundation is a vast organisation, headquartered in New York, and Kodmani was already fairly senior. But she was about to jump up a league.

Around this time, in February 2005, US-Syrian relations collapsed, and President Bush recalled his ambassador from Damascus. A lot of opposition projects date from this period. "The US money for Syrian opposition figures began flowing under President George W Bush after he effectively froze political ties with Damascus in 2005," says the Washington Post.

In September 2005, Kodmani was made the executive director of the Arab Reform Initiative (ARI) – a research programme initiated by the powerful US lobby group, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR is an elite US foreign policy thinktank, and the Arab Reform Initiative is described on its website as a "CFR Project" . More specifically, the ARI was initiated by a group within the CFR called the "US/Middle East Project" – a body of senior diplomats, intelligence officers and financiers, the stated aim of which is to undertake regional "policy analysis" in order "to prevent conflict and promote stability". The US/Middle East Project pursues these goals under the guidance of an international board chaired by General (Ret.) Brent Scowcroft...

<snip>

I wonder how divided the Bilderbergers and CFR are on these matters.

[Sheepshank]

20. I think you're just pissed off.....

that the WH didn't strike, just as you predicted they would and now you don't have anything new to complain about.

There was a nother thread you were pretty hard on those that predicted there would be no strike....you were pretty adamant that it would happen. I guess you feel a little silly now.

[ProSense]

22. Exactly. n/t

[cali]

24. I think that's silly. try actually reading the articles posted.

Yes, it will happen. they're telegraphing that clearly.

If it doesn't, I won't feel silly at all but hugely relieved and I'll be happy to commend the President for not launching an attack.

I think it's a huge mistake to do so and the process has been ugly as sin.

[Sheepshank]

25. I assume you are holding out on your present day commendation towards Obama

with the hope he will confirm you cynsim sometime in the future?

In the mean time, you don't hold back from manufacturing all the crap in the world about shit that hasn't happened.....got it.

[cali]

27. sorry, I'm not manufacturing anything. Do you think virtually every reporter

on this issue is manufacturing it? The officials from the admin? How about military spokespeople? Are they manufacturing the claim that Obama and Kerry made the case today for military action?

[delrem]

30. Are you totally unable to understand a word Obama is saying????? sheee.

If Obama doesn't follow through, because he's isolate and those who oppose the PNAC plans explain about "reasonable doubt" to enough people who *can understand*, all of us opposing this will be EXTREMELY happy, and Obama's ass will be saved.

But JC on a crutch, if you don't think Obama isn't telegraphing his intentions, personally and through Biden and Kerry (for two), then there's no help for you at all.

[Cali_Democrat]

32. Two words:

Michele Catalano

[cali]

33. two words: lucicrous. comparison.

[HangOnKids]

42. Two Words

Grow up.

[Cali_Democrat]

44. You seem to have a lot of interest in my posts, don't you?

I'm flattered.

Although I must say, I find your posts pretty uninteresting....at least from the few I've even bothered to look at.

[HangOnKids]

46. Get a new handbook

The old "you seem to have a lot of interest in my post canard" is pretty weak. But keep fluffing honey!

[Cali_Democrat]

47. Awww....the truth hurts

You'll probably continue to follow my posts with interest in the future.

I'm pretty flattered, but I got better things to worry about than what you think of my posts. You're a very mediocre poster IMO...I don't think I've ever seen a single interesting OP from you.

Cheers!

[HangOnKids]

48. Maybe you should start your own site with invitations and EVERYTHING maybe BALLOONS!

Until then....alas you will have to put up with people who do not like or agree with you. Oh and have to reply to mediocre posters who stomp on your robe. Cheers!

[Cali_Democrat]

49. I actually don't mind robust debate

I don't care if people agree or disagree with my views.

But what I find really funny are the folks who have almost NOTHING interesting to contribute to this site. EVER.

I don't mind a few posts which are snarky and funny, but when a poster does nothing but follow people around and attack other DUers, all I can do is laugh.

Try posting some interesting OPs and perhaps people can take you more seriously.

[HangOnKids]

50. Follow People Around?

It is an open board and I read and post when I see something interesting. You think I follow you around? Very sad. You think highly of yourself dude. The people I like and respect here take me seriously, the rest well too bad. So now get on with your bad self.

[Cali_Democrat]

54. Yep. Every time I've seen your posts lately....

You're following around DUers or commenting on them personally.

The subject of many of your posts is usually other DUers and not specific policies or issues.

As Eleanor Roosevelt once said...small minds discuss people.

[HangOnKids]

55. Oh so I see you are following me around

You are fun.....so easy......keep going....

[Cali_Democrat]

56. Nope. Seeing posts in a thread is not the same as following someone around...

...and making an initial reply to them in a thread.

You're the one that has the initial reply to me in this thread and others. Can you ever find an instance where I was the initial replier to you in a thread?

Didn't think so.

That's because your posts are generally uninteresting.

[HangOnKids]

57. But you keep responding Cali

You are fun!

[Cali_Democrat]

58. Thank you. n/t

[HangOnKids]

60. Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun

Easy fun!

[JI7]

31. reminds me of when they were hoping that Catalano story about being spied

on was true. you know they were disappointed when it turned out to be false and that she was a wingnut swift boater.

[lamp_shade]

34. Exactly.

[woo me with science]

28. Another lie.

"There is no spying on Americans."

"No decision has been made."

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
"Humanitarian" air strikes.

[jsr]

36. Hard to trust a guy who said he "won't cut benefits"

[MotherPetrie]

52. +1

[BlueCheese]

39. I think what they really presented was a case that Assad is a terrible person.

I'm willing to believe that.

What they didn't present was a case that our planned intervention would make the horrible situation there better.

[HooptieWagon]

59. ^+1

Exactly.

[spanone]

45. 'Obama repeated on Friday that he has still not made a final determination'

[David__77]

53. Sadly, you're right.

I'm deluded because I hope not. But any talk of indecision is designed to defuse political opposition and retain at least some element of initiative.