NY case puts N-word use among blacks on trial

[The Straight Story]

NEW YORK (AP) — A federal jury has rejected the argument that use of the N-word among blacks can be a culturally acceptable term of love and endearment, deciding its use in the workplace is hostile and discriminatory no matter what.

Jurors last week awarded $250,000 in compensatory damages to a black employment agency worker who was the target of an N-word-laced rant by her black boss, and they return to a Manhattan federal court Tuesday to decide on punitive damages.

The case against Rob Carmona and the employment agency he founded, STRIVE East Harlem, gave legal airing to what some see as a complex double standard surrounding the word: It's a degrading slur when uttered by whites but can be used at times with impunity among blacks.

But 38-year-old Brandi Johnson told jurors that being black didn't make it any less hurtful to be the target of what her attorney called Carmona's "four-minute nigger tirade" about inappropriate workplace attire and unprofessional behavior.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ny-case-puts-n-word-use-among-blacks-trial

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. Interesting. n/t

[Nye Bevan]

2. Doesn't it depend on whether the word "nigga" was used, as opposed to "n****r"? (nt)

[bravenak]

4. It does to me.

But a tirade is something strange. I would have felt terrible if I was the one getting yelled at. Work is work, it's best to keep a non hostile atmosphere. My mom got yelled at by her boss like that ( they're both black) and when she tried to leave the woman told another employee "get that nigga back in here", the guy grabbed her and tried to drag her back in the office. She got bruised up pretty bad and now she's suing for assault and hostile work environment.

[Fla_Democrat]

3. If it's used in a "rant" and a "tirade"

It's kinda hard to consider it a "term of love and endearment".

[Alenne]

5. I thought the use of any slur in the workplace is unacceptable.

A lot of women call each other bitches, but if your female boss goes on a bitch filled rant, that is considered a hostile work environment. I don't understand how anyone would think there's an exception for the N word.

[bettyellen]

6. yep- this article is bullshit- quite deliberately obtuse.

[Heidi]

7. I agree. And it serves as a dog whistle for caucasian dipsh!ts looking for an excuse

to use the n-word (i.e., "They can use that word among themselves, so what's wrong with me using that word?&quot

[bettyellen]

8. "yup, uppity black folks want to use words we whites should not!" boo fucking hoo.

More Freeperish bullshit, posted without comment- what a shock.

[Heidi]

9. That was certainly my take when I saw the subject line.

Good morning, bettyellen!

[bettyellen]

10. Oh yeah, posting RW flame bait "without comment" is certainly a thing, ain't it?

Always lovely to see you here, darling.
Regards to Wesley and Ginger. *hugs*

[Capt. Obvious]

16. #WhiteMansBurden

[bettyellen]

17. That's the field that this poor sap plows daily.

Without ever once taking credit for the RW shit piles he leaves all over GD.

[Capt. Obvious]

19. I envision Flounder when he hits post

"Oh boy, this is going to be great" while rubbing his hands together.

[CreekDog]

21. someone alerted on you.

At Tue Sep 3, 2013, 01:17 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

That's the field that this poor sap plows daily.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3588224

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Spamming thread calling poster rw'er/freeper. DU is better than this.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 3, 2013, 01:24 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I agree and count me out of the current fundraiser.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Well, the poster IS a right-wing libertarian jackass. And this OP is his typical bullshit. So, no, I'm not going to hide this.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: the whole thread looks like a clusterfuck
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerter can respond to the post, rather than the poster.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the

[RandiFan1290]

24. Jurors #3 & #4!!!!!

[bettyellen]

41. And no one has a word in defense of this OP. So, no libertarian jackasses on that

jury, which is nice to see.

[CreekDog]

42. Even the OP doesn't defend his OP. He's probably posting something about smoking, then guns,...

and the wimmins.

lather, rinse, repeat.

[bettyellen]

43. he knows how to skirt the rules, and that sexism is okay here. But racist stuff- he can hide behind

the old cut and paste- and pretend he thought this drivel was interesting.

[CreekDog]

45. posting that it's white, male, smokers, and gun owners who are the downtrodden in society

[CreekDog]

18. The OP never has posted a complaint about the N-word when it was used by white people

nor has the OP complained about racism when the perpetrators were white.

maybe a future post will be liberal.

[ecstatic]

12. +1000 nt

[Cerridwen]

11. In group versus out group use. It's not a difficult concept.

Unless, of course, one is trying to justify their own prejudice.

[loli phabay]

14. its an interesting subject, I and my contemporaries use language with each other

That would be considered by zome as derogatory if used by outsiders. Its always about knowing your audience.

[Cerridwen]

20. Affinity and empathy. Those are the main ingredients.

"Knowing your audience" is the banner of a dishonest manipulator playing to the crowd rather than staying true to their principles.

This is where you learn why I am not one of the "cool kids" on DU.

I have noted your posts since you arrived at DU. You and I do not share very many, if any, values, especially when it comes to women. The "enemy of my enemy" is not "my friend." Peddle it elsewhere.

[loli phabay]

27. no knowing your audience means simply that, if someone with the same background as me

Calls me by a term its totally different than you calling me it. As to when it comes to women i simply disagree with broadbrushing all women as being the same. Therefore i treat them all as individuals.

[Cerridwen]

29. I didn't expect you to understand. n/t

[loli phabay]

30. seems that you also dont understand so we will call it an impasse.

[Cerridwen]

34. Hell, if it makes you feel vindicated,

I'm fine with you claiming victory. I'm here to point out inconsistencies and dishonesty. I don't give two fucks about "winning a debate."

I'm tired of unprincipled, dishonest, word twisting, crazy making crap being posted to a board where once I came to be informed of the latest news from reliable sources and discuss it with people who shared many of my values.

Have at it. You win.

"Tis but a scratch."

[loli phabay]

37. thank you, a win is a win. all your base are belong to us

[CreekDog]

22. you use derogatory language in your job, say things that would be offensive to race/gender/sexuality

then you enforce the law and expect people to think that you aren't biased against race/gender/sexuality, even though you and your colleagues use those terms in your workplace.

everyone's just supposed to believe you when you say you don't actually mean anything with the words.

[loli phabay]

23. who says anything about work, assumptions much

[CreekDog]

26. so you use the language outside of work, but with work colleagues?

but nobody should think those terms are reflective of anything since you use them only off duty?

[loli phabay]

28. no, once again i and my contemporaries use words that outsiders using mean something different

Not sure how you are missing that point. Not everyone only hangs with their workmates.

[CreekDog]

31. the OP is about using the N-word

if you aren't talking about terms that could be likewise taken offensively, then you're disrupting the thread because you can't be bothered to post an OP about having conversations with colleagues that use various words that can't be mistaken for derogatory terms.

[loli phabay]

32. seems you miss the whole that some words are used within groups

That when used by people outside of the group are derogatory. Thats the whole point of this court case, when does the use of certain words cross the boundary.

[CreekDog]

33. then which words are you referring to that you and your colleagues use?

[loli phabay]

36. not colleagues, contemporaries. there are ethnic and cultural references

Also others that are descriptors that are fine within the circle but not with outsiders.

[CreekDog]

38. such as?

so one can use the N-word among close friends and family.

then be seen as fairly treating a black person when acting as a law enforcement professional?

[loli phabay]

39. once again you miss the point, its self deprecating within a cultural and ethnic group

Its not about talking about outsiders. You seem to miss the point that this case is about, its people within groups using words that while used by outsiders are slurs are not considered so when used by members of the group.

[CreekDog]

40. because you dont' have the guts to give one example of what you're talking about

either because you are totally BS-ing us or because the example will make you look bad.

now give an example or stop pretending you want anyone to (wink, wink, except for your pals) to understand THE POINT that it is SO IMPORTANT that we understand that you are making.

[loli phabay]

44. simple one for you, the use of the word fenian, when used within the group its acceptable

But when used by a bear then its not. I am sure if you think hard you can find many more examples.

[CreekDog]

46. so this is a term that most people in rural Virginia understand

[loli phabay]

48. who says its rural virginia or my contemporaries are in or from rural virginia

Seems that you are going out of your way to be obtuse. So i will give you a rural virginia example, its okay for my neighbours to self describe as white trash but when outsiders do it they get offended.

[CreekDog]

49. Right, that's your schtick, everyone who disagrees with you is "obtuse"

[loli phabay]

50. no just you, its obvious you are being obtuse as i have since given you two examples

Yet you still do you schtick.

[loli phabay]

15. uh, no idea what work implements have to do with this

[derby378]

25. Did anyone else pick up on this?

Carmona said he might put his arm around a longtime friend in the company of another and say: "This is my nigger for 30 years."

"That means my boy, I love him, or whatever," he said.

Sounds to me like he used the term "my nigger" the same way more enlightened people would use the term "my property." It's still just as bad when applied to people. But your mileage could vary.

But suddenly, I'm in the mood for some old-school Public Enemy...

[Blue_Tires]

47. Not really...In that context it still means close friend, confidant, etc...

It's a word I definitely grew out of using when I turned 16, but many I know still cling to it...Either way it's not something that belongs in a professional workplace...

[Supersedeas]

53. Reminds me of a Stephen A. Smith rant.

And Hugh Douglas of ESPN

[badtoworse]

35. I'm going to stay out of this one

When I pointed out the double standard a few weeks back, my post was hidden.

[bettyellen]

51. as well it should have. because whites whining for the right to use the N-word is not progressive.

it's for dummies who cannot understand cultural context, or assholes who want to preserve the right to say any disgusting thing they want, and not be called on it.

[badtoworse]

52. It was really about the hypocrisy

I agree the word is disgusting. I don't need to use it, nor do I want to - there are plenty of other pejoratives in the English language that get the point across without being offensive.

The fact that certain members of our society use the word with impunity reflects poorly on them, cultural context notwithstanding.