Thank You Senator Kerry. Now I know.

[cali]

Thanks to you, I now know that the opposition in Syria are "the good guys". And here I'd been laboring under the "misapprehension" that there was no unified opposition; that the opposition is composed. of different factions. Whew. I thought the radical fundamentalists were part of the opposition, but no, you set me straight. Jabhat-al- Nusra isn't really part of the opposition.

I'm relieved to know that the people of Syria are committed to a secular society.

Thanks to you, I now know that any strikes the U.S. conduct won't help the radical fundamentalist factions of the, er, forces fighting Assad. You say it will only help the good guys.

I'm so glad to know that strikes won't help these guys:

Al Qaeda's potent force in Syria

Al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria, Jabhat al-Nusra, is generally acknowledged to be the most effective force fighting al-Assad

Its fighters are willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause, are widely viewed as uncorrupt and are not involved in looting as other opposition forces are. A number of them are battle-hardened from other conflicts such as the Iraq War.

Al Qaeda's Syrian affiliate is also well supplied as it benefits from the support of Sunni ultra-fundamentalists in the wealthy Gulf states such as Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

Jabhat al-Nusra, which means the "Victory Front," was listed as a foreign terrorist organization by the U.S. State Department in December and is essentially a splinter organization of al Qaeda in Iraq.

Al-Nusra's military prowess and close ties to al Qaeda make it a potentially serious threat to U.S. interests in the region, and the group has shown it has the ability to conduct massive suicide bombings.

<snip>

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/opinion/bergen-al-qaeda-power-syria/

[bunnies]

1. Dammit, Cali!

Stop educating yourself! You just believe what he says and nod your head. OK? NO questions!!!!

[cali]

2. Kerry is so full of shit.

gotta love the line that if you don't vote for this now you'll be faced with a much darker choice.

He's lying over and over again by diminishing facts he doesn't like or denying them.

And here we go with more Hitler shit.

[cali]

3. Fuck. The shit Kerry is spewing is appalling.

[Little Star]

4. Did you look through the comments at your link?.....

Not many buying this shit there either & it's friggin CNN.

[n2doc]

5. paraphrasing Shakespeare: "For Kerry is an Honorable Man; So are they all,all Honorable men"

Just like Colin Powell.

All believers in "The Ends Justify the Means"


Either that or this is some crazy sociological experiment run by the billionaires to see how rapidly they can convince people to support those they had just been demonizing.

[sulphurdunn]

6. Lighten up on Kerry!

Thirty years in the US Senate would turn any human into the pod person Kerry is now. Of course, you can also make an argument that the bastard never was anything but a self-promoting sociopath who cashed in on the anti-war movement when it was expedient.

[heaven05]

7. +10000

says it all.

[Autumn]

8. Now I know. And I really wish I didn't.

My life long trust in Democrats is gone.

[MisterP]

9. will he have a photo-op with the "good guys" while they're still holding pilgrims hostage

like McCain did?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

10. When is this unacceptable? When does presenting a case make one "full of shit"?

It's a simple question. I'm not looking for a debate, just an answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention

"The Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling, and use of chemical weapons. Its full name is the Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons and on their Destruction. The agreement is administered by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), which is an independent organization based in the Hague, in the Netherlands.

The main obligation under the convention is the prohibition of use and production of chemical weapons, as well as the destruction of all chemical weapons. The destruction activities are verified by the OPCW. As of January 2013, around 78% of the (declared) stockpile of chemical weapons has thus been destroyed.[5][6] The convention also has provisions for systematic evaluation of chemical and military plants, as well as for investigations of allegations of use and production of chemical weapons based on intelligence of other state parties.

As of June 2013, 189 states are party to the CWC, and another two countries (Israel and Myanmar) have signed but not yet ratified the convention."

[cali]

11. I don't think I could have been clearer. He presented a case that

was propaganda. I'm willing to stipulate that the Assad regime used chemical weapons in Ghouta just as Kerry said, but much else was a steaming pile, indistinguishable from the crap bushco peddled.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

12. I could not disagree more strongly

The Obama Administration has done everything, and continues to do everything, to avoid a war. Israel occasionally strikes Syria's weapons stock piles with missiles and has not yet called it war.

Using gas on those who oppose you in your own country is an atrocity. It always has been and is condemned and outlawed. Too many hawks crying "Wolf!" has put us in a really horrible dilemma. I don't want to allow that region to completely meltdown into a death pit, which it appears to be doing. The U.S. did step up and do something about chemical attacks on Muslims in Kosovo. It may well have been one of our finest hours.

This could be another. Or it could be disastrous. I don't think saying qualified and truly knowledgeable people like John Kerry is "full of shit" helps to see what is truly vital.

Even Elizabeth Warren is torn on this: http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_politics/2013/08/markey_backs_surgical_strike_in_syria_warren_hesitant

And the NY Times sees a rationale that is convincing: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/world/air-war-in-kosovo-seen-as-precedent-in-possible-response-to-syria-chemical-attack.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Little Star]

13. I want some of what your smoking.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

22. I'm not smoking anything. I want the air cleared. I want an all out debate, not limited to Syria.

This has needed airing for a long time. Hopefully it can be done without name calling which doesn't help in the slightest.

[delrem]

14. False. The Obama administration, starting from when HRC was SoS

and invented the Orwellian titled "Friends of Syria" military movement, has done *everything possible* to foment war against Syria and to falsely portray it as a "civil war".
The Syrian war is courtesy of PNAC/MIC, which hasn't lost the tiniest iota of power since GWB.
And *that's* what Obama's "hope and change" is worth - less than a fart in a windstorm.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

20. This is far more speculative than anything I've written or read in here.

[delrem]

23. HRC's Friends of Syria isn't "speculative" - except in some warped pro-war propaganda view.

[MNBrewer]

18. It WILL be disasterous, no matter what we do.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

21. I agree.

I'd like to see the UN pressure all parties to lock themselves in a room and force religious leaders to forsake war for religious purposes. ALL of them.

And I'd like to see the Energy industry forced to put all their cards on the table. And the MIC.

Too many actors in the shadows.

[Supersedeas]

24. thank you for those links....food for thought

[mbperrin]

16. Why is killing people with chemicals bad and killing them with

missiles, bombs, bullets, clubs, arrows, knives is good?

It's rhetoric.

I'm not willing to face my maker and say, yes, we killed people for rhetoric.


I'm opposed to this and any other war. Period.

[MNBrewer]

17. "outlaws the production, stockpiling, and use of chemical weapons"

I guess the US is guilty of at least 2 out of 3 here, huh? Maybe some one should surgically strike the U.S. of A.

[DevonRex]

15. Free Syrian Army has 100,000. Al-Nusri has 5,000 and dwindling

since they're suicide bombers. Syria is a secular state.

[cali]

19. baloney. simplistic and outdated and the FSA is not entirely secular by a long shot

furthermore, large parts of the North are controlled by Islamists. And it's hardly just the FSA and Jabhat al-Nusra. There are literally dozens of opposition organizations and its ever mutating.



The fragmenting FSA
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/09/03/the_fragmenting_fsa

More:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130818/NEWS08/130819217/1677
http://www.voanews.com/content/splintering-loyalties-in-syrias-complex-war-/1742536.html

[woo me with science]

25. K&R

A million times K&R.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. No...NOW you know...

The National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces is a coalition of opposition groups in the Syrian civil war. It formed on 11 November 2012 at a conference of opposition groups held in Doha, Qatar. It includes organisations such as the SNC. Islamic preacher Moaz al-Khatib serves as the president of the coalition, Riad Seif and Suheir Atassi were elected vice presidents. Mustafa Sabbagh is the coalition's secretary-general.[14]
The Syrian National Council, a coalition of Syrian opposition groups based in Istanbul, formed in 2011 during the Syrian civil war.[15][16] Key people include chairman as of 2013 George Sabra, and former chairmen Burhan Ghalioun and Abdulbaset Sieda.
Muslim Brotherhood: Islamist party founded in 1930. The brotherhood was behind the Islamic uprising in Syria between 1976 until 1982. The party is banned in Syria and membership became a capital offence in 1980. The régime of Bashar al Assad, and others[who?], have accused the Muslim Brotherhood of being key players in the Syrian uprising that escalated into a civil war.[17][18][19] Other sources have described the group as having "risen from the ashes",[20] "resurrected itself"[21] to be a dominant force in the uprising.[22] Current leader is Ali Sadreddine Al-Bayanouni.
Coalition of Secular and Democratic Syrians: nucleus of a Syrian secular and democratic opposition that appeared during the Syrian civil war. It came about through the union of a dozen Muslim and Christian, Arab and Kurd parties, who called the minorities of Syria to support the fight against the regime of Bashar al-Assad.[20][23] The Coalition has also called for military intervention in Syria, under the form of a no-fly zone similar to that of Kosovo, with a safe zone and cities.[24][25] The president of the coalition, who is also a member of the SNC, is Randa Kassis.[26][27][28][29]
Damascus Declaration: Opposition bloc from 2005. Twelve members were sentenced to 2.5 years in prison in 2008. Syrian journalist and activist Michel Kilo launched the declaration, after the Syrian writer and thinker Abdulrazak Eid had written its first draft. Riad Seif, another democracy activist, became the first signatory.[30] The "five small opposition groups" signing the declaration were
the Arab nationalist National Democratic Rally
the Kurdish Democratic Alliance
the Committees of Civil Society
the Kurdish Democratic Front
the Movement of the Future.[31] The Movement for Justice and Development in Syria (MJD) also subscribes to the Damascus Declaration.[32] In a series of splits 2007-2009, most members left the Damascus Declaration, leaving the MJD and SDPP (see below) as the only remaining factions of any consequence, along with a number of independents.
Syrian Democratic People's Party: A socialist party which played a "key role" in the creation of the SNC.[33] The party's leader George Sabra (a secularist born to a Christian family) is the official spokesman of the SNC, and also ran for chairman.[34]
Supreme Council of the Syrian Revolution: Syrian opposition group supporting the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad's government. It grants local opposition groups representation in its national organization.
Assyrian Democratic Organization: A party representing Assyrians in Syria and long repressed by the Assad regime, it has been a participant in opposition structures since the beginning of the conflict. Abdul-Ahad Astepho is a member of the SNC. [35] [36]
Syrian Turkmen Assembly: A recently formed assembly of Syrian Turkmens which constitutes a coalition of Turkmen parties and groups in Syria. It is against the partition of Syria after the collapse of Baath regime. The common decision of Syrian Turkmen Assembly is: "Regardless of any ethnic or religious identity, a future in which everybody can be able to live commonly under the identity of Syrian is targeted in the future of Syria."[37]
Syrian Democratic Turkmen Movement: An opposition party of Syrian Turkmens, which was constituted in Istanbul on 21 March 2012. The leader of Syrian Democratic Turkmen Movement is Ziyad Hasan.
Syrian Turkmen National Bloc: An opposition party of Syrian Turkmens, which was founded in February 2012. The chairman of the political party is Yusuf Molla.

Local Coordination Committees of Syria: Network of local protest groups that organise and report on protests as part of the Syrian civil war, founded in 2011.[38][39] As of August 2011, the network supported civil disobedience and opposed local armed resistance and international military intervention as methods of opposing the Syrian government.[40] Key people are activists Razan Zaitouneh and Suhair al-Atassi.[41]

Free Syrian Army & Higher Military Council: Paramilitary that has been active during the Syrian civil war.[42][43] Composed mainly of defected Syrian Armed Forces personnel,[44][45][45] its formation was announced on 29 July 2011 in a video released on the Internet by a uniformed group of deserters from the Syrian military who called upon members of the Syrian army to defect and join them.[46]
The leader of the group, who identified himself as Colonel Riad al-Asaad, announced that the Free Syrian Army would work with demonstrators to bring down the system, and declared that all security forces attacking civilians are justified targets.[47][48]

It has also been reported that many former Syrian Consulates are trying to band together a Free Syrian Navy from fishermen and defectors to secure the coast.[49]

Al-Tawhid Brigade: an armed group of the Free Syrian Army active in the Battle of Aleppo.
Liwaa al-Umma: a paramilitary group fighting against the Syrian government in the Syrian civil war. The group was previously led by Mahdi Al-Harati, an Irish-Libyan who led Libyan rebel Tripoli Brigade during the Battle of Tripoli. In September 2012 it came under command of the Free Syrian Army.

Syrian Turkmen Brigades: An armed opposition structure of Syrian Turkmens fighting against Syrian Armed Forces. It is also the military wing of Syrian Turkmen Assembly. It is led by Colonel Muhammad Awad and Ali Basher.