Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 06:06 AM Sep 2013

San Francisco to Chain Stores: Get Out!

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/san-francisco-chain-stores-get-out

“Whether you’re on the road or just cruising around town, your favorite McDonald’s menu items are never far away.” So boasts the McDonald’s Restaurant Locator, and a glance at a distribution map of franchises in the United States proves the point. Population centers burn brightly with the Golden Arches; even the sparsely populated Western states are adequately supplied by the nation’s 14,000-plus fleet of McDonald’s.

That reach is astounding, but not exceptional. Four out of five Americans live within 20 miles of our 11,000 Starbucks; 30 percent of American grocery shopping occurs at our 4,500 Wal-Marts. The most familiar element of the American landscape — excepting green highway signs and certain brands of automobiles — might be Subway, which has over 25,000 U.S. locations.

You could be forgiven for thinking, as Simon and Garfunkel sang, “Each town looks the same to me.” From Juneau to Jacksonville, we Americans share, as much as anything, a common commercial experience, a fractal pattern of retail at once comforting and mind-numbing. It stretches the powers of the imagination to think that eating and shopping options in the American city were once as distinct as fingerprints. The shift from mom-and-pops to chains has been one of the defining shifts in American cultural life, and counter-protests have been largely futile, with opponents pegged as sentimentalists standing in the way of progress and low prices.

That is changing. Dozens of American municipalities, mostly small towns with tourism in mind, have passed laws restricting the entry of chain stores. The biggest city to do so is San Francisco: in incremental steps punctuated by a ballot initiative in 2006, the California city famous for liberal activism has enacted the most influential anti-chain legislation in the United States.
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
San Francisco to Chain Stores: Get Out! (Original Post) xchrom Sep 2013 OP
Asheville was ahead of the curve on this Flo Mingo Sep 2013 #1
Is that Asheville NC ? dipsydoodle Sep 2013 #2
indeed. ntt xchrom Sep 2013 #3
As far as I know Bascom Lamar Lunsford started that there. dipsydoodle Sep 2013 #5
You're correct about Lunsford. Flo Mingo Sep 2013 #19
Asheville as a 'must see'? Personally it is on the 'if I am forced to' list due to the anti gay laws Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #16
The state is not the people Flo Mingo Sep 2013 #20
I love Asheville PasadenaTrudy Sep 2013 #24
Clyde? Flo Mingo Sep 2013 #25
Yep! PasadenaTrudy Sep 2013 #26
Asheville is refreshingly bereft of hideous chains. DirkGently Sep 2013 #35
Wish people could write. A bunch of fixed brick & mortar is NOT a "fleet". Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2013 #4
What is the group noun for McDonald's? A Murder of McDonald's? tclambert Sep 2013 #6
I thought it was a Puke of McDonalds Auggie Sep 2013 #14
Try and pry the Apple Store from my cold dead hands... brooklynite Sep 2013 #7
I think the Apple Store is too hip to count. Nye Bevan Sep 2013 #8
First off, Apple is a local brand here. The city welcomes locally owned chains. Gormy Cuss Sep 2013 #28
This may be illegal under many of the WTO treaties signed by the US fasttense Sep 2013 #9
Thank you for bringing that up, fasttense. So true about these "trade agreements" loudsue Sep 2013 #18
Nope. The beauty of SF's law is that it technically "bans" nothing. Xithras Sep 2013 #32
Hmm, it might hold up at a WTO tribunal. fasttense Sep 2013 #33
Cafe, Eats, Good Food grilled onions Sep 2013 #10
Yep, I avoid franchises whenever possible. bemildred Sep 2013 #11
And it keeps the money local (more likely anyhow). nt bemildred Sep 2013 #12
yes. a greater share of your dollar spent in a locally owned business stays in the community. nt xchrom Sep 2013 #13
Wouldn't it be great to see a McDonalds close... tecelote Sep 2013 #15
Traveling around the the US became a lot less fun when Zorra Sep 2013 #17
It's got plenty of flaws, but San Francisco is still the light, in this country at least. marmar Sep 2013 #21
McDonald's was at one time a small local business The2ndWheel Sep 2013 #22
I assume that if these "local businesses" that SF loves so much Nye Bevan Sep 2013 #27
Nope. SF embraces Bay area chains. Gormy Cuss Sep 2013 #29
See ya Chevron! nt raouldukelives Sep 2013 #23
lets see Jesus Malverde Sep 2013 #30
Does this mean Whole Foods and Trader Joe's will have to close or move to Colma? mulsh Sep 2013 #31
K&R. proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #34

Flo Mingo

(492 posts)
1. Asheville was ahead of the curve on this
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 06:27 AM
Sep 2013

Before its transition, when most of downtown Asheville was vacant and deserted, a developer wanted to demolish much of the center of the city for a mall.

Luckily we had a forward thinking city council that seized the opportunity to redefine Asheville as a city committed to local businesses, artists and entrepreneurs. Now downtown is a shopping and culinary potpourri. Our river district has been converted from abandoned industrial buildings into a thriving arts community.

It is one of the things that defines Asheville as a must see American destination. (If you haven't, you should!)

We need more small and mid-sized communities committing to their own citizens this way.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
5. As far as I know Bascom Lamar Lunsford started that there.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 06:58 AM
Sep 2013

Bascomb on fiddle. Not sure why they used the expression "his band" - such stuff was impromptu when he was filming especially grannies flatfooting on the porch. .

Flo Mingo

(492 posts)
19. You're correct about Lunsford.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 09:32 AM
Sep 2013

There's an annual festival in Mars Hill in Oct every year.Of yeah and Brewgrass, our annual Craft beer and music fest.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
16. Asheville as a 'must see'? Personally it is on the 'if I am forced to' list due to the anti gay laws
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 09:02 AM
Sep 2013

NC has enshrined. I try to avoid the states that nurture legal discrimination against others as NC does. What kind of 'arts' could they have, really, with bigotry ruling and Republicans in full charge?

Flo Mingo

(492 posts)
20. The state is not the people
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 09:37 AM
Sep 2013

Yes, Raleigh has been taken over by right wingers but Asheville ifs one of the most progressive cities in the southeast. But to each his or her own add they say.

Peace

PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
24. I love Asheville
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 10:22 AM
Sep 2013

I go all the way from CA to spend time there. It has a San Francisco vibe there that I like. And less traffic and pretty mts! My dad was originally from Clyde, NC

PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
26. Yep!
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 10:47 AM
Sep 2013

My grandad had a farm there waaay back when. My dad was born there in 1921! I went back a few years ago and found the land. Now there's houses on it. We are Penlands, so our history is deep there

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
35. Asheville is refreshingly bereft of hideous chains.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 09:57 PM
Sep 2013

I'm sure it helps tourism that downtown isn't one long blob of Taco Bells.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,959 posts)
4. Wish people could write. A bunch of fixed brick & mortar is NOT a "fleet".
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 06:45 AM
Sep 2013

Kudos to SF for putting the brakes on big chains.

However, the best way to block chains is to convince people to buy responsibly. Start with "Think globally; EAT locally". Eat at local restaurants, not big chains.

Another thing is the idiocy of people traveling to tourist destinations and eating the exact same burgers and fries and tacos and pizzas that they eat at home.

tclambert

(11,084 posts)
6. What is the group noun for McDonald's? A Murder of McDonald's?
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 07:07 AM
Sep 2013

Swarm? Gang, horde, pod? Oh, here it is: infestation.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
8. I think the Apple Store is too hip to count.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 07:22 AM
Sep 2013

Last edited Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:15 AM - Edit history (1)

This kind of thing is directed more at the likes of McDonalds and Walmart, places that attract poorer people. Chains like Apple Store and Panera Bread that richer urban hipsters like will still be welcomed with open arms.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
28. First off, Apple is a local brand here. The city welcomes locally owned chains.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:13 AM
Sep 2013

The city also doesn't ban or prohibit national chains from leasing space. They just make it difficult for the chains to come in and obliterate the local business landscape.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
9. This may be illegal under many of the WTO treaties signed by the US
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 07:28 AM
Sep 2013

All those trade agreements the US has signed on with the WTO strictly forbid this kind of boycott. Wal-Marts, McDonalds, and other corporations have a right to sell their crap anywhere they want in the US under numerous WTO trade treaties the US has signed off on. San Fran and others will probably get sued by one of those corporations they banned. And the corporation will win. The WTO tribunals are all rigged in favor of the corporation.

And simply encouraging people to buy local is also illegal if any government, from federal to local, decides to spend any money promoting local over international corporations.

Many a trade lawyer is betting on who will be the 1st corporation to file against the US for promoting buy America and buy local (like farmer's markets). WTO agreements specifically prevent this.

But the US has ignored other agreements like the "NO Torture" Geneva convention. So, the US could just ignore these agreements with the WTO. Then the US would be liable to trade sanctions. But really? What country would cut its own throat by agreeing to NOT ship to US markets. Actually if the WTO enforced trade sanctions against the US, it might just be the best thing that ever happened to the US.

Now you see why so many protest the WTO meeting and how the WTO effects you everyday life.

loudsue

(14,087 posts)
18. Thank you for bringing that up, fasttense. So true about these "trade agreements"
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 09:27 AM
Sep 2013

that are destroying the voices of the people all across the globe. Our politics have shifted from a democracy to governance by the corporations. THAT is where our tax dollars are going....to support the global corporations that really determine the destiny of a country.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
32. Nope. The beauty of SF's law is that it technically "bans" nothing.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:15 PM
Sep 2013

First, it places no restrictions at all on several commercial districts, so technically ANY company can move into SF. They're just limited as to WHERE they can move.

Second, even in the rest of the city, there's no actual "ban". The law simply says that chains with 11 or more stores are required to go before the planning commission and be subject to a public hearing before they can move in. 75% of stores that go through this process are approved. When they are declined, it's typically because of major neighborhood opposition, or because the retailer has picked a location that is problematic for some reason (traffic patterns, parking, and pedestrian access being the biggies).

San Francisco's solution was simple and legally defensible.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
33. Hmm, it might hold up at a WTO tribunal.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 01:12 PM
Sep 2013

But then again, I would NOT want to be the trade lawyers defending this policy in front of a corporate tribunal. 98% of the time the tribunals finds in favor of the corporation. If the corporation can say it lost profits because of the SF law, then its got a foot in the door.

I hope SF wins on this one but.....

grilled onions

(1,957 posts)
10. Cafe, Eats, Good Food
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 07:32 AM
Sep 2013

Those were the words a kid in my generation learned first on the vacation trail. Many were not fancy and some were not much beyond decent but some had the best hot beef sandwiches,fried chicken and homemade pies in the land. We had "roadhouses" which were commonly named taverns out of town and often had family style dinners and again specialized in wonderful fried chicken, real potatoes and often local vegetables. I can't imagine being as excited seeing yet another "arches" down the pike!

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. Yep, I avoid franchises whenever possible.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 08:05 AM
Sep 2013

You still have to check, but your chances of getting something you are willing to eat are much improved with local businesses, they have to rely on their own reputation.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
15. Wouldn't it be great to see a McDonalds close...
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 08:58 AM
Sep 2013

because local restaurants took away all of their business!

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
17. Traveling around the the US became a lot less fun when
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 09:15 AM
Sep 2013

most of the country became a homogenized corporatized eyesore.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
22. McDonald's was at one time a small local business
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 10:09 AM
Sep 2013

Always interesting where people draw their own personal lines between what should be local and what should be more universal in scope.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
27. I assume that if these "local businesses" that SF loves so much
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:13 AM
Sep 2013

expand and get too big for their britches, SF will kick them out.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
29. Nope. SF embraces Bay area chains.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:19 AM
Sep 2013

La Boulange is a successful chain of bakeries in the city, locally owned and grown until its recent sale to Starbucks. The new ownership doesn't mean that the chain is getting booted out either.

Apple, based in Cupertino, has a flagship store in Union Square. It's expanding that space.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
30. lets see
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:31 AM
Sep 2013

we have target, bed bath and beyond, costco, best buy, mcdonalds, burger king, taco hell, in and out, nordstoms, macys, neiman, all the lux stores like louis vitton, the largest chain of strip clubs - deja vu, we had a bunch of circuit cities - they closed., radio shack,

Pretty much every national chain is represented, what is restricted is their density and number. I think the only chain that really seems locked out is walmart and home depot. Melissa Mayer walmart boardmember and city favorite is probably working hard on that.

mulsh

(2,959 posts)
31. Does this mean Whole Foods and Trader Joe's will have to close or move to Colma?
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:40 AM
Sep 2013

Last edited Wed Sep 4, 2013, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Just an Oaktown home boy being snarky, too many people in SF lovest them stores.

I remember when Starbucks bought a local Coffee shop chain in SF in the 90's. man talk about a Starbucks on every corner. There were three with in a block of my office at Freemont and Mission. Something about the former coffee shops having to honor their leases.

Good luck neighbors.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»San Francisco to Chain St...