do we owe the japanese an apology for the whole pearl harbor thing?

[SwampG8r]

it wasn't an act of war
I mean no boots on the ground
just air delivered explosives aimed at military targets to express their displeasure with the course of American policies
a message as it were
am I close?

[Cleita]

1. There are some dissimilarities.

For one thing, we weren't in the middle of a civil war. Our government hadn't killed civilians since we subjugated the Indians and the Hawaiians. That was in another century.

[Art_from_Ark]

4. Well, there was also that little matter of the Philippine Insurrection (1899-1902)

"On February 4, 1899, just two days before the U.S. Senate ratified the treaty, fighting broke out between American forces and Filipino nationalists led by Emilio Aguinaldo who sought independence rather than a change in colonial rulers. The ensuing Philippine-American War lasted three years and resulted in the death of over 4,200 American and over 20,000 Filipino combatants. As many as 200,000 Filipino civilians died from violence, famine, and disease."

http://history.state.gov/milestones/1899-1913/War

[bobclark86]

14. Dafuq does that have to do with anything involving Pearl Harbor?

I mean, really?

[Art_from_Ark]

16. I was replying to Cleita's post

But I will tell you one thing that the Philippine Insurrection had to do with the events leading up to Pearl Harbor-- it provided a convenient excuse for Japan to treat the people in its colonies poorly, and America's acquisition of the Philippines through war stopped the southward expansion of the Japanese Empire, which then turned its attention toward the Asian mainland. The intensive competition to build empires in the Pacific by both Japan and the United States planted the seeds for future conflict, in much the same way that intensive rivalries among European colonial powers led to World War I.

[RC]

2. Pretty close.

Close enough to be pink misted in the explosions. Which is close enough.

When are we going to have leaders that listen to the public that elected them again? We can't tell the tea-baggers from the Democrats without the (D) or (R) by their names anymore.

[lumpy]

3. The United States wasn't gassing it's citizens. The Japanese were throwing joining the German

Nazis with the idea of world domination. You demean our dedicated response to that attack by the Japanese. That is a childish post trying to compare reasons for responding to aggression.

[DiverDave]

5. Childish, no,

incoherent, yes.

[TexasProgresive]

6. Pearl Harbor was a case of unintended consequences.

Japan then as now was resource poor. Its industry was fueled by imports of energy and raw materials. The following excerpt is taken from a good synopsis of the motives the Japanese had in entering the war. My father's analysis saw Pearl as a tactical victory but a strategic failure. Ships were sunk by the fuel depot that powered the Pacific fleet was unharmed. This depot was built up over years. If destroyed it would've hamstrung the Navy.

The conflict and negotiation between the US and Japan in the pre-World War II period illustrates a good example of the case and explains why Japan went to war against the US. The US, the biggest oil supplier for Japan at the time, imposed the oil embargo on Japan in July, 1941, and it helped the Japanese to make up their minds to fight against the Americans. Thus, in a way, the attack on Pearl Harbor was not a surprise one at all; it was a necessary result of the conflict and negotiation.

http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/japan-oil.htm

[Javaman]

9. and the reason why the U.S. imposed that embargo is because of

Japans invasion of French Indochina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_leading_to_the_attack_on_Pearl_Harbor

A series of events led to the attack on Pearl Harbor. War between Japan and the United States had been a possibility that each nation's military forces planned for since the 1920s, though real tension did not begin until the 1931 invasion of Manchuria by Japan. Over the next decade, Japan expanded slowly into China, leading to all out war between the two in 1937. In 1940 Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to embargo all imports into China, including war supplies purchased from the U.S. This move prompted the United States to embargo all oil exports, leading the Imperial Japanese Navy to estimate that it had less than two years of bunker oil remaining and to support the existing plans to seize oil resources in the Dutch East Indies. Planning had been underway for some time on an attack on the "Southern Resource Area" to add it to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere that Japan envisioned in the Pacific.

[pampango]

10. We declared "economic" war (in their eyes) on Japan because of what Japan had done in China and

French Indochina.

Since US congress and public were in no mood to do anything more than a trade embargo, this was the most effective tactic FDR could use against Japan.

Of course in the eyes of the military rulers of Japan, we were sticking our noses into an Asian affair that was none of our business. By declaring "economic war" on them by depriving them of oil and steel, they figured we had started a "war" that they would take to the next level in order to survive.

[Javaman]

11. And the irony there is...

the Japanese invaded French Indochina to prevent arms from reaching the chinese via a rail line the French Vichy refused to close under pressure from Japan.

In the Japanese eyes it was okay to prevent supplies from getting to the very people they were invading, but it was bad for the U.S. (in the Japanese eyes) to prevent the Japanese from getting supplies to continue their invasion.

Given the military power of Japan at the time and the U.S. peace time small army (comparatively), I think that FDR's embargo of the oil to Japan was the right move while trying to appease both the people drumming for war and also the isolationists (which was huge back then)

when you poke a crazy tiger, it doesn't take much to set it off.

[hack89]

7. Forgotten what happened on Dec 8th? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Here's a list of the areas the Imperial Japanese occupied.

Several regions in mainland China
Portuguese Timor
Hong Kong (UK)
French Indochina
Thailand - as an 'allied' state although induced
Burma (UK)
British New Guinea
Philippines (USA)
Malaya (UK)
Andaman and Nicobar Islands (India)
Straits Settlements (Singapore)
Sarawak (UK)
Brunei (UK)
British North Borneo
Nauru (Australia, New Zealand and UK)
Dutch East Indies
Guam (USA)
Imphal (India)
Wake Island (USA)
Gilbert and Ellice Islands (UK)
Christmas island (Australia)
Attu, and Kiska (Alaska)

After we are done apologizing as you suggest should we allow Japan to re-occupy them. That seems like a logical next step.

[JPZenger]

12. Your comparison should be reversed

The Nazis were killing large numbers of civilians, as were the Japanese in China.

The isolationists in the US prevented the US from doing much about either situation, except trading 50 rusty obsolete destroyers for some British military bases.

The one thing FDR could achieve was an oil embargo on Japan, to pressure them to stop their massacre of Chinese people. The US and its allies provided a large share of Japan's oil. The Japanese felt they would have a tough time carrying out their goal of conquering Asia if they did not attack the US fleet.

The US Admiral who had warned that the fleet could not be defended in Hawaii was fired prior to Pearl Harbor.

[Make7]

13. IMPERIAL RESCRIPT

 
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:-1px -1px 3px #999999 inset;"]By the grace of Heaven, Emperor of Japan [Emperor Shōwa], seated on the throne occupied by the same dynasty from time immemorial, enjoin upon ye, Our loyal and brave subjects:

We hereby declare War on the United States of America and the British Empire. The men and officers of Our Army and Navy shall do their utmost in prosecuting the war. Our public servants of various departments shall perform faithfully and diligently their respective duties; the entire nation with a united will shall mobilize their total strength so that nothing will miscarry in the attainment of Our war aims.

To ensure the stability of East Asia and to contribute to world peace is the far-sighted policy which was formulated by Our Great Illustrious Imperial Grandsire [Emperor Meiji] and Our Great Imperial Sire succeeding Him [Emperor Taishō], and which We lay constantly to heart. To cultivate friendship among nations and to enjoy prosperity in common with all nations, has always been the guiding principle of Our Empire's foreign policy. It has been truly unavoidable and far from Our wishes that Our Empire has been brought to cross swords with America and Britain. More than four years have passed since China, failing to comprehend the true intentions of Our Empire, and recklessly courting trouble, disturbed the peace of East Asia and compelled Our Empire to take up arms. Although there has been reestablished the National Government of China, with which Japan had effected neighborly intercourse and cooperation, the regime which has survived in Chungking, relying upon American and British protection, still continues its fratricidal opposition. Eager for the realization of their inordinate ambition to dominate the Orient, both America and Britain, giving support to the Chungking regime, have aggravated the disturbances in East Asia. Moreover these two Powers, inducing other countries to follow suit, increased military preparations on all sides of Our Empire to challenge Us. They have obstructed by every means Our peaceful commerce and finally resorted to a direct severance of economic relations, menacing gravely the existence of Our Empire. Patiently have We waited and long have We endured, in the hope that Our government might retrieve the situation in peace. But Our adversaries, showing not the least spirit of conciliation, have unduly delayed a settlement; and in the meantime they have intensified the economic and political pressure to compel thereby Our Empire to submission. This trend of affairs, would, if left unchecked, not only nullify Our Empire's efforts of many years for the sake of the stabilization of East Asia, but also endanger the very existence of Our nation. The situation being such as it is, Our Empire, for its existence and self-defense has no other recourse but to appeal to arms and to crush every obstacle in its path.

The hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors guarding Us from above, We rely upon the loyalty and courage of Our subjects in Our confident expectation that the task bequeathed by Our forefathers will be carried forward and that the sources of evil will be speedily eradicated and an enduring peace immutably established in East Asia, preserving thereby the glory of Our Empire.

In witness whereof, we have hereunto set our hand and caused the Grand Seal of the Empire to be affixed at the Imperial Palace, Tokyo, this seventh day of the 12th month of the 15th year of Shōwa, corresponding to the 2,602nd year from the accession to the throne of Emperor Jimmu.[font style="font-size:0.7692em;"]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_declaration_of_war_on_the_United_States_and_the_British_Empire[/font]
When an attack is accompanied by a declaration of war does that make it an act of war?

[sarisataka]

15. Shush...

you are ruining a perfectly good rant...

[Jasana]

17. Excuse me? Am I even reading your OP correctly?

Did you say we should apologize to the Japanese for Pearl Harbor?

My Grandfather was on the U.S.S. Nevada the day Pearl Harbor was bombed and I know what he would say to you about that but I think I would get kicked off this board trying to express his opinion.

In the meantime, I'll be nice and say your whole OP was just a giant typo.