given that we Americans are against military intervention in Syria - at least mainstream Americans

[Douglas Carpenter]

by significant majorities - The same can be said among almost all of our western allies. How can it be that some people talk like this is some bizarre convergence of crackpot leftist and crackpot rightest - When we are in the solid majority?

You take a look at the polls yourself. Or better yet just ask the next five persons you see if they support military intervention in Syria or if they think we should stay out of it.

I just don't get it, how can the vast majority be the fringe?

[MisterP]

1. it's propaganda: its purpose is to convince or to shape reaction

they sure didn't believe that the NDAA didn't apply to Americans, nor do they believe that NSA opponents are Cato dupes

[Douglas Carpenter]

2. I just don't know what to make of this meme that dismisses the opinions of the vast overwhelming

majority of ordinary Americans as fringe and extremist.

[MisterP]

3. if the bounds of national permitted conversation were allowed to encompass the 70-90% of Americans,

instead of the "True Americans," Washington and Wall Street'd have to pay attention to peace, Plan E, high-speed rail, water that doesn't ignite, green energy, well-rounded education, no housing bubbles, real gun registration, etc., etc.

these bounds of acceptable discourse are EXTREMELY important in shaping the larger changes of US history (New Deal, Cold-War Fordist consumerism, 70s rebelliousness, the neoliberal order)

[MNBrewer]

4. Maybe the insanity of the Bush era wars woke us up?

[Doctor_J]

5. The BOG is sort of in its own reality.

they believe the president is a mainstream Dem even though he's to the right of large majorities of us on most issues. It's a Fox News mentality. At Fox Nation they believe that Canadians hate their health care and covet the US system. In the BOG/DLC world, the 90% against another useless war are "fringe". You have to break with reality to believe this stuff.

[MisterP]

6. "a third of a third" they called anyone against the war in '06, a tiny nugget that didn't need to be

forcing its views on decent Americans (they got the number because "the left" was one-third of the Dems, who were "one third" of the spectrum)
and "He's everyone's President," as though anyone to the left of Franco were just another interest group in a free, fair system

[Douglas Carpenter]

8. it is an other worldly twist of logic, that's for sure. Do they EVER talk to normal people?

[Doctor_J]

16. It's just the echo chamber - everyone like their own opinions confirmed

A huge percentage of Fox Nation believes many completely preposterous things. Obama is a socialist. Saddam had WMD. The deficit has grown since 2009. Obama wants to grab all of the guns. SP Health Care is a "Government takeover". Newt Gingrinch and Rush Limpballs represent morality and "family values". The list is endless.

We're now seeing the same sort of brainwashing among members of our party. Offering to cut SS is "12-D chess". Giving in to wild-eyed Republican demands is "showing the country how radical they are". Prosecuting Bush and Cheney would make us "just as bad as the Republicans". Obama represents the middle of the Dem party. Prosecuting mmj dispensaries is good for...something or another. Now they are actually cheering for war using the exact same language that the insane Bushies used 11 years ago.

The reason the far right spends so much on propaganda is because it works. And we're seeing it again. back in the day a huge percentage of OUR party were not succeptible to propaganda. That percentage is shrinking, and a chunk of Dems is joining the far right.

[zipplewrath]

19. I agree but....

The BOG is a huge echo chamber. I love how several of them talk about how the BOG allows them to talk out the issues. The only talk over there is about how we are all nuts. I'll give grantcart credit for attempting to terminate the GD group based bashing.

I will say though that I detect that the White House realizes that it has not yet made the case to the vast majority of the US. Despite the fog in which the BOG operates, the White House understands that they are well short of the convincing case that the Americans are demanding at this point. That said, I think they can get there. I don't believe that the majority of the opposition is all that firm.

[tecelote]

7. MIC

We need more wars to support the 1%

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Doctor_J]

17. Yep. They now own and run every person and institution in the country

Even members of our party are on board, since it's a (D) president pitching it.

Personally I believe there's a way out, but we're not quite desperate enough yet, duue mostly to the effectiveness of the propaganda apparatus.

[Mojorabbit]

9. I am trying to figure out why Syria and why now

I don't believe for a moment it has anything to do with the gassing of citizens. I know there is a pipeline and if there is a pipeline then this is about oil. But why now? What is it we don't know that is going on? Why would Obama stake everything on this? It really makes no sense at all.

[AverageJoe90]

10. I'm not so sure about that: David Koch's been against it.

Now, think about this: Why would David Koch, perhaps the greediest oil baron(and one of the most influential, mind you!) in modern American history, turn down the opprotunity for more oil? Is he somehow being altruistic? Or is it perhaps that maybe he sees such as too much of a risk to be worth taking? And if it's the latter, then it begs the question: "If this is true then how CAN it be about oil?"

[Mojorabbit]

11. I looked up Koch oil and can only find that he deals in North American oil.

I don't see where he is involved in the middle east. I believe it is about oil and is a geopolitical play for position. I just don't get why now.

[Douglas Carpenter]

14. I simply can't grasp what they think they will accomplish. Either they weaken the Assad

regime enough that the inevitable reprisals against the Christians, Shiites, Alawites, Kurds, and Druze have to confront a very dangerous situation - or they essentially accomplish nothing. If that is the case, what is the point?

[HardTimes99]

18. I saw an interesting hypothesis sourced from zerohedge.com that speculated that

Israel had secretly informed the U.S. that she (Israel) planned to attack Iran in the fall. Taking Syria on new would thus be a way to neutralize a threat (and an Iranian ally) on Israel's borders.

I get a bad vibe from the ZeroHedge site and find its UI as clunky and incomprehensible as the clods who usually post there. (I tend more towards Yves Smith's Naked Capitalism site.) But I still thought this was an interesting theory.

Of course, the geniuses in the War Department failed to heed the lessons of August, 1914. Or August, 1962. And now the Mediterranean has become a nautical parking lot for ship-based launch platforms of nuclear adversaries. Oh, joy!

[Jesus Malverde]

12. Outside the "establishment" is crackpot...nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

13. I guess it's the same way I can hear the sensible center appear on the Sunday morning infotainment

pundit shows and with a straight face and even a hint of passion in their voice talk about how the "far left" is blocking any attempts at "entitlement reform" ( reducing Social Security and Medicare benefits for the elderly and disabled) - The political class especially of the sensible center are increasingly defining "far left" as the opinion of almost everybody except them.

[FarCenter]

15. Democratic governments work on the principle of modifying public opinion to support their policies

That is what political parties and the mass media are all about.

Democracy did not exist in larger countries until pamphlets and newspapers became cheap enough to distribute to the part of population allowed to vote. As paper and ink, and later radio and TV, became cheaper and it was possible to reach more people, the voting franchise was extended to more of the population.

You probably thought it was the other way around?