General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Senate is supposedly voting this week. If they vote to authorize,
do you think that President Obama could (sort of) follow in Clinton's footsteps and launch a military strike before the House votes?
He could use Senate approval as cover and say after the fact that the matter was too urgent an issue of national security to wait on the House (they're reportedly not going to vote next week).
anyone think that this is a possibility?
jessie04
(1,528 posts)nt
cali
(114,904 posts)that's what panting bomb loving war mongers do.
gopiscrap
(23,725 posts)jessie04
(1,528 posts)until he chemically nuked his own people.
Innocent people being gassed and convulsing and chemically asphyxiated by a (chinless) dictator is immoral.
Reiyuki
(96 posts)"You can't use chemicals to kill your own people, you have to do it organically. America and the world want to make sure Assad only uses locally sourced free-long-range lead ordinance." - Jon Stewart
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)Oh, that made me WARGASM!!!!
RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...interesting.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Oh, wait.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)go back to sleep then...its easier for you...
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)or more beige-like, actually.
Get your war on!
RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)it's a taste and smell.
back to sleep and you don't have to worry your little pointy head.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)Wait, what are we describing again?
Oh, yeah:
RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)back to sleep RL...
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)You know, Obama, Kerry, and the rest of the war-merchants.
I'm sure just a dab of vanilla will get their missiles all hard and flying for you.
RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)LOL...I like chanting in warm weather!
http://defensetech.org/2013/08/30/air-force-developed-bombs-capable-of-destroying-syrias-chemical-weapons/
go back to sleep and miss it!
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)When are you enlisting?
thought so.
RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)My father was career military sooo...and I am too old now....did you serve?
thought so...
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)He probably knows better.
You? Go enlist Spanky, I'm not the one calling for war.
Chickenhawk.
RL
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I am not calling for war either...rather I want the rest of the chemical weapons taken out...if that defines chickenhawk then so be it..
'Intense heat'
For years the United States has been seeking to develop warheads that could be used to destroy chemical weapons stocks without the dangers described above.
So-called "Agent Defeat Weapons" are probably available to US commanders. They operate in various ways but the essential feature is intense heat - it is like a super-incendiary bomb - that destroys the chemical or biological agent in situ.
MineralMan
(146,245 posts)Very clever...
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)I take that as a badge of honor.
RL
MineralMan
(146,245 posts)"discovery" all over DU is a badge of a different type.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)poor thing.
RL
MineralMan
(146,245 posts)I have a boredom.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)enjoy it!
Obama made it ok!
RL
BeyondGeography
(39,339 posts)after which he can perhaps build more legitmacy w/Europe. Next Sunday is the date that has been reported:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014588603
karynnj
(59,495 posts)Given how close the timing is - the vote itself should wait - as well as the President should wait.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)There is no threat to our national security, Syria has not threatened to attack us. It seems highly likely that the House is going to vote No and any attempt to go in before they vote will be seen as a rejection of Congress. Considering the large majority of people want Congress to vote No such a move would infuriate people across the political spectrum and there would be immediate calls for impeachment hearings.
cali
(114,904 posts)YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...impeachment. Does another one matter?
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Raksha
(7,167 posts)not some "birther" bullshit. And not about blowjobs or what the meaning of "is" is.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)He may be able to survive the Senate trial but he would suffer severe political damage as would all the Senators who defended him. I would predict that a strong majority of the country would favor impeachment and that support for impeachment would be bipartisan, people don't want this war and we will be outraged if he bombs without Congressional approval.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)there is precedence..
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)He would be lucky if he could maintain a 25% approval rating for the rest of his term if he did such a thing, many of his past supporters would ditch him if he acted so arrogantly.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)do you think that is what motivates him?
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Nearly the entire world opposes him on this issue, there is very little support in the US for bombing Syria and even less support internationally. Nearly the entire world opposes him on this, it does not have anything to do with my personal opinion.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)It would be really stupid to engage Congress and take any action BEFORE the vote came down.
He did NOT have to go to Congress in the first place. But they bitched and moaned, so he put it to their vote.
Why?
Because their votes will be a matter of record.
Oh, and why would a bloodthirsty warmonger wind DOWN wars when he could be bathing in blood?
Pretzel 'logic' at work around here.
cali
(114,904 posts)and Bill Clinton did something similar with regards to bombing Kosovo- though that was a NATO operation.
In other words, there's some precedent for it.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Though I doubt anyone who's already convinced that he's a walking pile of lies will bother to consider what he has to say. A lot of minds are shut like steel traps here from the threads I've seen.
He isn't going to take any action without evidence (that people here love to deny exists) or accountability from Congress. He knows far better than anyone here that the GOP knives have been out for him. To speculate that he'll do some of the things that people believe he'll do implies a lack of thought or smarts on his part.
karynnj
(59,495 posts)Obama has taken that argument away by saying that delaying to go to Congress could be done as there is no urgent need.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)◦Runny nose
◦Watery eyes
◦Small, pinpoint pupils
◦Eye pain
◦Blurred vision
◦Drooling and excessive sweating
◦Cough
◦Chest tightness
◦Rapid breathing
◦Diarrhea
◦ Nausea, vomiting, and/or abdominal pain
◦Increased urination
◦Confusion
◦Drowsiness
◦Weakness
◦Headache
◦Slow or fast heart rate
◦Low or high blood pressure
◦Loss of consciousness
◦Convulsions
◦Paralysis
◦Respiratory failure possibly leading to death
Now, imagine its your loved one and we did nothing.
cali
(114,904 posts)blast waves- horrific injuries and death
shock waves - horrific injuries and death
fragmentation- horrific injuries and death
fire and heat- because it's so much better to die being burned to death than from sarin
blast wind- carrying all kinds of projectiles that cause- yes, you guessed it- horrific injuries and death
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/syria-weapons-depot-blasts_n_3689653.html
jessie04
(1,528 posts)tough choice.
cali
(114,904 posts)sick shit panting to bomb
disgusting.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and those that don't die...are still faced with serious medical conditions...
jessie04
(1,528 posts)It's not like its anyone's kid here.
**sarcasm**
And to think a few tomahawks could ...could... Put a stop to it. With almost zero chance in American lives.
And we ain't even tryin'
Where the hell did our morality go?
cali
(114,904 posts)and anyone who actually believes that "a few tomahawks" could put a stop to the misery and death and violence or even potential gas attacks, in Syria, is either hopelessly delusional or hopelessly stupid.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)So don't respond to every post I make then.
BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)They didn't vote until a month later. Here, if the House is about to vote, preempting it with a strike would be hugely controversial.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)the House said No.
Despite the support of Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois, the House defeated on a 213-212 vote a Senate-passed resolution endorsing the NATO airstrikes in Yugoslavia. The vote was not binding but was politically significant.
The lack of political support for NATO's air war does not require Clinton to withdraw U.S. forces from the conflict or halt American participation in allied airstrikes but reflects concerns in Congress over the president's handling of the military confrontation with Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-04-29/news/9904290179_1_nato-spokesman-jamie-shea-tie-vote-air-war
bhikkhu
(10,711 posts)In Kosovo they were literally rounding people up, executing them and burying them in mass graves. In Syria I don't think there is a great danger of that (at least that's not a part of the accusation, as far as I've heard), so likely not the same urgency at all.
merbex
(3,123 posts)I do think that's a big difference.
merbex
(3,123 posts)I wrote earlier that I bet the Bill is already written, ready to be filed.
It would be serious and not a 'Move On' moment.
He will have instituted a Constitutional crisis for who? John Kerry? The Iranians? The Israeli government? All to prove what? That we know how to launch cruise missiles?
If those people I listed don't know by now that we know how to do that, some would say we excel at that, then what is the point?
He needs to respect the American peoples' elected Representatives - THAT"S how people across the world want to see America act - lawfully.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)midterms. Impeachment hearings will run deep into 2014 if not through the midterms, sane republicans don't want that because that party will be forcibly removed from lots of seats by voters.
merbex
(3,123 posts)without House approval which WOULD lead to a bill to begin Impeachment hearings,because the Senate won't convict him?
And that somehow, when people have been calling and registering their opposition to this Syrian strike that seeing the President willfully disregard the peoples' Representatives the people will somehow will blame Republicans?
I don't think you fully understand how many Democrats would join in that an abuse of power and would vote to impeach. Voters would not blame the GOP on this at all - what I am struck by is - people know enough about the Constitution to know that the power to authorize war rests with Congress.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)But I don't think he should. He asked for congressional appoval and he should stand by his own request.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)then Impeachment will be back on the table, and no amount of "it won't happen" screaming will have made a damn bit of difference.
If the House says no and he does it anyway, same scenario. We the People overwhelminly don't want it after we have been hounded by austerity every step of the way to recover the economy while harming it, and it's a slap in the face that suddenly there are funds for war.
It isn't about gas attacks. It's about a gas pipeline and everyone knows it. Fuck Exxon for a change. Exxon has certainly fucked over the American people enough that they deserve to feel a little pain.
It is their job, he will wait until they reach a final vote. Then when they vote majority 'no', he will not strike or send in forces.