So if Syria hands over their stockpile, Obama wins.

[trumad]

Sometimes you have to carry a stick when the carrot doesn't work.

I hope that happens--- I really do.... simply to see the contortions by those who never give the dude credit.

Now don't get me wrong---if Obama lobbed a few missiles into Syria, I would be extremely pissed. Thing is---he hasn't... so I'm cool so far.

IF Assad hands over his chemical weapons to the International community, this will be a huge foreign policy win for the President.

[onehandle]

1. Yep. nt

[avaistheone1]

97. This isn't about Obama

or a win for Obama. This is about whether this country will be taken to a war it doesn't want.

[Sheepshank]

110. I don't understand your statement

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2013, 04:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Many many here at DU have absolutley made it all about Obama...even going so far as to poll for his impeachment.

[CakeGrrl]

114. Exactly. Tell it to the people who say the "warmonger" is a liar,

but Assad is apparently to be taken at his word.

[MADem]

131. Coulda fooled me with all the excoriation the guy has gotten here on "Democratic" Underground. nt

[Eddie Haskell]

135. wrong ... Putin wins ... Putin has offered Obama a way to save face.

In the end, we all win.

[Cha]

137. This OP is for you, eddie..

face it. There is a contingent on DU who love a shirtless Putin and are swooning
Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:13 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

over his ice blue eyes. Every word of his send chills up their spine and they thrill to his next brilliant move.

There's really nothing to be done. Only an antidote of injecting wolf blood into a person has a slight chance of diminishing the fascination and infatuation with the Russian leader.

It is best to realize Obama has been bettered by the pale enigma from Leningrad.

On edit: Quick! Someone start a VPG! We needs more pictures!

h/t Pretzel Warrior http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3629695

[last1standing]

2. At the very least he would save face, and could claim the win.

Unfortunately, it appears they're digging a deeper hole for themselves.

[Whisp]

22. I don't think Obama is worried about saving face.

It's not about him.

People just don't get that about the guy.

[last1standing]

25. Then more's the pity.

If he doesn't care about saving face we may be doomed to waging a war that the American people oppose along with the world community.

It's not an insult to suggest he may want to save face. If I were in his situation I would have my advisors developing a plan to take control of those stockpiles while putting my face on TV claiming victory. Not for my own sake, but for the sake of the nation. It's good for our world prestige to have the result that has now been floated because it makes the US look strong and benevolent instead of weak and vindictive.

I hope he reverses course and takes the offer.

[lumpy]

33. Some people can't see there is hope in this new development. Like there has to be a continuation

of hatred, disillusionment and distrust.

[TwilightGardener]

42. Agreed.

[FSogol]

3. K & R. n/t

[geek tragedy]

4. IF is sometimes the biggest word in the English language nt

[TwilightGardener]

5. No, it's being proclaimed as Obama being "had" by Putin, or being rescued.

Last week the decision to turn Syria over to a congressional vote was hailed as a good move, now it's a DISASTER OH NOES TEH HUMILIATION11!!! They'll always find a way to shit on the guy.

[trumad]

8. No---Kerry made the statement that Assad turn them over.

Russia jumped on it.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Right, but already the Wall St. Journal is saying that Russia seized on

Kerry's "mistake" talking about Assad giving up chem weapons--WSJ says it's a stalling tactic.

[lumpy]

37. That is Wall Street for ya'. The money-talk people are thinking about the next election already.

[Hissyspit]

32. Quote:

"Sure, he could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week - turn it over, all of it without delay and allow the full and total accounting (of it) but he isn't about to do it and it can't be done."

[WilliamPitt]

6. The State Dept. has already walked back the offer.

America's top diplomat suggested in a passing remark that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad could avoid a U.S.-led strike if he handed over all his chemical weapons, but the State Department quickly dismissed the comment as more of a "rhetorical argument" than an offer.

http://gma.yahoo.com/did-us-offer-syrian-president-125806202--abc-news-topstories.html

[trumad]

16. Game playing...

but it may work.

[Ellipsis]

21. They want Assad out too...he can go to Russia.

[Whisp]

23. and play checkers with The Snowing One. n/t

[BP2]

7. Nobody respects the bully who

promises to beat you up, but then backs down because you gave your lunch money to a friendlier bully.

just saying

[trumad]

11. Really--- so we're the bully?

Lunch money is your comparison?

Let's see---lunch money or Sarin Gas.

Please.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. +1

[BP2]

28. Sarin gas is awful, but insanity is

lobbing cruise missiles over Russian warships to hit chemical weapons which are now placed among the civilian population.

Assad is not to be trusted. You can't reason with a thug.

Assad has absolutely no reason to give up all of his chemical weapons when the rebels probably have it too and will certainly not give it to the Russians.

So we're right back where we are -- a proxy war between the US and Russia in Syria.

[LooseWilly]

66. Why wouldn't Assad be willing to place the weapons under UN control, with Russian assurances?

I don't see any reason why he wouldn't- since it has been pointed out that the weapons really aren't that tactically useful. Terrifying, sure... but hard to use with any precision.

Syria's most compelling argument against giving up weapons, was expressed by Assad as quoted in an ABC story (http://abcnews.go.com/International/syria-welcomed-russian-proposal-destroy-chemical-weapons/story?id=20198655)

Earlier this week Syrian President Bashar al-Assad explained why he had "not yet" signed the Chemical Weapons Convention.

"Because Israel has WMD, and it has to sign, and Israel is occupying our land. So that's why we talked about Middle East, not Syria, not Israel. It should be comprehensive," he told PBS' and CBS News' Charlie Rose in an interview.

So the question is... is the US just determined to move on Syria to assert our power in the region anew? If it's not that, then why?

[robinlynne]

156. yes we're the bully.

[lumpy]

39. What would you do BP2 ? Nothing.

[alsame]

9. No, the

Syrian people and others in the region would win. Isn't this supposed to be about them?

[trumad]

14. Yep--- you're right.

[840high]

27. Of course it is. I don't

care who saves face.

[KittyWampus]

10. It isn't about Obama/Kerry winning. There's going to have to be a UN Resolution first.

Or something to seal this deal in international community.

Putin and Assad saying okay isn't going to cut it.

[trumad]

12. I agree.

[lumpy]

41. The UN agencies seem to be the reluctant ones. Hope they come through to help pressure

Syria to do the right thing.

[joeybee12]

13. No...

He is very damaged by this no matter what.

[lumpy]

43. You hope.

[joeybee12]

56. Borderline personal attack...

But I'll let it pass.

[cui bono]

118. Agreed. n/t

[morningfog]

15. Everyone would win. Obama would get big credit.

We are still a long way off, though.

[Zorra]

144. +1 nt

[pnwmom]

18. I'm back to hoping. Just maybe . . . this will work. n/t

[lumpy]

45. I am with you all the way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Susan Rice was breaking Olympic records

As she ran away from that

It's a déjà vu momemt, and not a good one.

Sadam you have 72 to leave...momemt.

One of my instructors once referred to this behavior as circle jerk, not politically nice, but at the highest levels these people, independent of party or nation, become completely isolated from reality, and cocksure they are right and everybody else is wrong. Am afraid we are seeing that again.

[BP2]

35. Yep -- "Assad, you have one MORE week"

of a war we cannot win, nor do we want to fight.

Because the bigger bully, Iran, is watching every twist and turn

[L0oniX]

24. It might be a win for Putin. n/t

[tridim]

26. Obama always wins. Get used to it Neo-DU.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I hate to say it, but back in reality where I live

Things are far more complex than that.

Right now they are breaking Olympic records in running away from this as well.

But anyway, I love the children coming out to play.

[tridim]

31. Yes, everything is complex in life. But still, Obama always wins.

And Neo-DU is ALWAYS wrong.

Thanks for playing.

See you for the next poutrage. You will be wrong then too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Welcome to the kiddie wing of the ignore list

I am tired of playing games with five year olds. Just do me a favor, you and the other two, (so far) try to behave, but the swing set should be installed by now.

[tridim]

38. No prob Nadin.. Take your ball and go home.

Do you really think I care?

When you get "home" be sure to file a report about me, being right, again.

[DevonRex]

113. Uh oh. She's in another kerfunkle.

[rhett o rick]

148. She is closer to reality than those that give up their sense for worship of the new God. nm

[DevonRex]

150. I don't understand Putin worship myself. But whatever floats your boat, Rick.

[rhett o rick]

151. Insinuating that I worship Putin is intellectually irresponsible. I worship Democratic principles.

You should take a lesson.

[DevonRex]

153. Intellectually irresponsible, he says, after being the very one to introduce worship

into the conversation. I find most often that when opponents are losing they will cast about for any twig and act as if it is a dagger. Alas, they still lose and a twig just looks silly in battle. But by all means - please proceed.

Although you'll have to do it in moot court. I'm going to give the twig a pass. Or you could try tilting at windmills.

[rhett o rick]

155. " I find most often that when opponents are losing they will"

resort to a strawman argument. I think it interesting that you view discussions as a competition with a winner and loser.

[sagat]

52. +1

[rhett o rick]

147. So winning is the goal? Tell me when the last time he won?

Did he win the sequester? Did he win privatizing Social Security? Did he win cutting the tax breaks for the zillionaires? Has he won a single thing for the 99%?

[OnyxCollie]

57. Neo-DU.

The part of DU which differentiates itself from the pro-authoritarian, warmongering, surveillance state supporting part of DU that attacks and blocks from posting anyone who dares to question President Daddy.

Automated Message: You have been blocked from a group

You have been blocked from posting in the Barack Obama group by Cha. If you believe this is an error, you may contact Cha for more information.

Neo-DU. I like it. It sounds all Matrix-y.

[Skittles]

140. take that as a badge of honor

yes INDEED

[OnyxCollie]

141. I printed it out and put it on the 'fridge.

[rhett o rick]

149. They are the brown shirts. They will follow their new God over the cliff. nm

[ocpagu]

70. Are you really that naive?

Obama "always wins"? What is him, some kind of paranormal entity with divine infallibility?

Or, you know, just another human being who makes right and wrong decisions, like everyone, who just happens to be a president?

Impressive how the "establishment" have convinced some Americans that we are still in 17th century and Obama is the Emperor-of-the-World-by-the-will-of-God who must not be questioned...

[tridim]

71. The title of the OP is, "So if Syria hands over their stockpile, Obama wins."

I am responding to the "Obama wins" in the OP, genius.

[ocpagu]

73. No. This is what you said:

"Obama ALWAYS wins"

"And Neo-DU is ALWAYS wrong."

This is Absolutism bullshit applied to the 21st century.

[tridim]

80. In the context of the OP, both are simply statements of fact.

Do you have a problem with Obama "being right" and "winning" every time?

[ocpagu]

87. I have a problem with you living in a parallel reality...

... where "Obama is ALWAYS right".

[tridim]

91. That's super. nt

[totodeinhere]

102. But if he wins the Syria issue that doesn't mean he "always" wins. That would be just

one win. A good win yes but it's not tantamount to always winning. And for that matter we don't even know that he will win this time. The Syrians could very well back out of the deal. We will see.

[totodeinhere]

99. I don't see how you can say that given the number of proposals he has made that

have been obstructed by the Republicans. He has even had his judicial nominations withdrawn because he could not get them through. Obama doesn't always win. No president does. And it's silly to suggest otherwise.

[sibelian]

30. Clever old Obama!

It must be that mind-control ray he had the CIA instal in Valdimir's office.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

36. Not true

The syrian people, the whole bloody middle east, and quite possibly the world wins.

And Mother Russia ends up wearing the tiara for their deft diplomacy, compared to our blind, deaf, and dumb dipsomancy

[TwilightGardener]

40. "Deft diplomacy"--er, no. They've prevented the UNSC from doing anything about Syria--

no one is going to cheer them for diplomacy.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

44. We have been attacking real and perceived enemies on foreign soil

for more than 6 years. Too frequently, those missile attacks manage to kill innocents and bystanders.

Who do you think looks better to a third world country? Russia, which talks and gets results, or USA which bombs first, and issues apologies later?

[TwilightGardener]

48. I'm sorry, have we bombed them yet?

Did I miss that?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

51. A predator based missile is just as deadly as a small aerial bomb or

artillery shell. The fact remains we continue to attack folks on foreign soil. If you don't understand that simple fact, then there is no reasoning with you. Being willfully ignorant, or hoping the bad news goes away if you take no notice of it, is not a basis for a conversation.

[OnyxCollie]

46. Who determines what Assad's "entire" stockpile will be?

Syria or the US?

Will the US say Syria is hiding some of their stockpile, and then launch a war? It's happened before.

"The fact that the inspectors have not yet come up with new evidence of Iraq's WMD program could be evidence, in and of itself, of Iraq's noncooperation," Rumsfeld said. "We do know that Iraq has designed its programs in a way that they can proceed in an environment of inspections and that they are skilled at denial and deception."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/15/sproject.irq.inspections/

[cali]

50. I'm also concerned about the specifics

of this.

[KittyWampus]

83. That's why there has to be a UN Resolution. Let's see if that happens.

[BP2]

47. Let's not forget that it was the Russians who

reported to the UN that it was THE REBELS who are using Chemical Weapons:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/05/201268/russia-releases-100-page-report.html


Meanwhile, the Germans are suggesting that it wasn't Assad, but perhaps a lone Syrian general:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild


Not sure how Obama "wins" for being publicly so wrong.

.

[TwilightGardener]

49. How has Obama been wrong?

[JoePhilly]

53. Here's what happens if Syria gives up the weapons ....

GD on DU goes from this ....




To this ....

[totodeinhere]

105. I find that insulting. I would hope that we all want a peaceful solution to this crisis.

As someone who has vehemently opposed any military strike I would be the first one to celebrate a peaceful solution.

[JoePhilly]

125. Glad to hear it (the second part I mean).

And I'm sorry, but for the last 3 weeks or so, DU has been in a constant state of freak out.

We were absolutely positively going to go to war with Syria and it was going to be just like Iraq because the President was actually a secret member of PNAC. This was simply a fact.

And, if you did not agree with this prediction, you were called a warmonger.

Now that it looks like a diplomatic agreement might be reached (which is very good news), the same folks who freaked out, will explain how Putin saved Obama, or some other such nonsense.

Let's imagine if we get a diplomatic solution and Assad gives up his Chem weapons ... do you think he'd have done that, even considered doing it, of his own initiative?

The speculative outrage machine has run wild for the last couple weeks. And if this deal happens, the outrage machine will sputter along for a couple days, until some new shiny outrage catches its fancy.

[Waiting For Everyman]

54. Yes. Yes, he does win.

Assad is desperate, he knows he's losing -- it's said that is why he used the cw in the first place. Putin left weasel room for himself last week, and even Rafsanjani made a statement leaving Iran an "out" (they are particularly disgusted by cw). China too very subtly. They all see the writing on the wall.

They're probably trying to get Assad off their backs, while maneuvering to somehow keep a controlling stake in what's next in Syria. While all this disarming is going on in the near future, I'd expect to see a shift in focus behind the scenes to which rebel groups are going to become dominant.

We need to see to it that the secular rebels come out on top. (The local people who started the protesting in the first place.)

Obama will begin defeating Assad one "bite" at a time. He will rope Assad in with these constraints, and then take him down. I doubt that Russia, China, or Iran will fight it more than image requires.

Anyway, that's what I think.

[Abq_Sarah]

55. maybe if you haven't been paying attention

It could be considered a "win".

[Jester Messiah]

58. If "winning" means floundering around ineptly, sure.

Basically Uncle Vlad comes off looking like a total boss, while Obama looks impotent. I can't believe some people are trying to spin this as a victory of any kind.

[trumad]

64. floundering around ineptly?

What---do you wish he was instantly decisive and just started bombing?

[Jester Messiah]

67. Hell no.

I wish he would have correctly perceived that it's none of our business and none of our concern. I wish he wouldn't have embarked on this stupid saber-rattling course at all. Do we not have enough problems to solve here at home? Do we not have enough war debt, enough dead, enough maimed veterans?

[trumad]

72. Dream on.

[Jester Messiah]

126. I will, proudly. [nt]

[malaise]

59. I disagree - he wins when ReTHUGS

vote No

[davidn3600]

60. Obama is not interested in that deal. The WH is walking back the comments

They want a war. And they want one really, really bad.

[rusty fender]

61. We all win

[David__77]

62. Well, we'll see how this latest twist plays out.

It certainly will help take the steam out of the war drive for a day at least. It will throw off message a sense of certainty that "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE." (TM)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

63. I think Putin will be considered the winner -

He gets to play "peacemaker" and will make serious international hay with the role. Obama boxed himself into a no-win situation with the red line remark: GOP will find a way to rag on him no matter what decision he makes and he risked losing the left/moderates with an unpopular strike.

I sincerely hope this that plan re: Syria's chem weapons works -- for the Syrian people, most of all.

[HooptieWagon]

69. I agree, Obama was out-flanked by Putin.

Now, if rebels use CWs again, Russia can assemble a coalition to strike rebel positions and Obama's hands are tied.

[LittleBlue]

89. Yep

Obama's strategic goal has always been regime change, which is why he was arming rebels long before any chemical weapons were used. Chemical weapons were an excuse to open the door to direct intervention.

Putin's strategic goal is the preservation of Assad. Assad was in a hugely disadvantageous position after the chemical weapons strike, and he not only maneuvered Assad out of it, he gets (like you say) to play international peacemaker.

Obama's errors came from the red line declaration, and the decision to defer to congress. He boxed himself in, exposing his flank to Putin. Putin has exploited the opening that leaves Obama out of choices: he must support this or be made to look bloodthirsty.

[totodeinhere]

107. Putin might be considered the winner. But if we find a peaceful way out of this

the whole world wins.

[HooptieWagon]

65. I don't think so.

Everybody wins. Obama gets a reset...however, he's also painted further into the corner. If the rebels use CWs again (and they would be the only ones still possessing them), then the Russians can claim the right to make a unilateral airstrike on rebel positions...and Obama can't do a goddam thing about it without looking like a hypocritical old fool.

[Union Scribe]

68. So your reason for hoping this to happen

is to "see the contortions by those who never give the dude credit." Not, like, so that further human suffering is averted or anything so trivial, but so you can be entertained online because it's a "win"...The stupid shit people say...

[trumad]

75. Has he fucking bombed anyone yet?

No--- it's a win if he doesn't kill anyone but removes Sarin Gas from the weapons that Assad has.

The contortions will be by the idiot douchebags that want to go after him at every turn.

That wouldn't be you would it?

[Union Scribe]

90. Lol.

There's the jejune rage-filled class act we all know.

[trumad]

94. Really---that's your comeback?

How about something substantive? That would be way to hard wouldn't?

[Union Scribe]

98. Why would I bother?

I don't read poetry to barking dogs and I don't try to have rational discussions with barking DUers.

[trumad]

100. You have nothing.

[frylock]

121. been that way since 2006..

it doesn't matter if fuckall gets done, as long as the other side looks bad, whether the other side are republicans, or disgruntled progressives.

[warrior1]

74. the pressure is working

Obama is winning

[trumad]

76. Good

If Assad gives them up it's a win for everyone---except for the Morans who want to see him fail.

[warrior1]

86. yup

[Ishoutandscream2]

101. "it's a win for everyone"

Yeah, yeah, yeah (in my Beatles mode).

[shenmue]

77. Yep

And some of the anti-Obama types on this board will be oh so disappointed that they don't get to pretend anymore that he's worse than Bush.

[trumad]

78. Trust me--- they will commit mass suicide.

[carolinayellowdog]

84. there's no point in alerting on crap like this

but it's as absolutely disgusting as any hatemongering against progressive DUers I've seen on this site

[Union Scribe]

93. He has a history of wishing death on DUers he disagrees with.

Awhile ago he posted that all gun owners here should shoot themselves.

[Iliyah]

112. No worries - shenmue

they have already found one - Putin wins scenerio plus Pres O is weak weak weak.

[Yo_Mama]

79. The world wins.

This would be the ideal solution, and if Putin is really on board, it's quite likely to happen.

[andym]

129. +1 nt.

[hue]

81. "IF Assad hands over his chemical weapons to the International community" I doubt this...

"IF" would never really be actualized. IF it hasn't happened yet it prob will never happen. Al-Assad may give a token stockpile & make a big issue of it but, Syria is known to have one of the largest stockpiles of chemical weapons in the world.

Though I'm sure Russia/Putin would step in as the rep for the "International community" and accept them...

[myrna minx]

82. I truly hope so. I really do.

I feel sick at the thought of more war.

[underpants]

85. Not according to the normal line-up of cons & faux lobs on the TV

Libs should read libs

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

88. If he does, and if Obama stops playing cowboy, WE win.

[BainsBane]

92. I don't really care who wins

I just want to see as few people die as possible. The President's reputation is the least of my concerns.

[99th_Monkey]

95. True enough. hope it really happens. good post. nt

[School Teacher]

96. The Folks in Washinton and AIPAC-PNAC Want War. Period

If the Washington crowd, AIPAC and PNAC want this war, they will get it one way or another. They will think up more lies or excuses and soon with will be Shock and Awe and the Pax Americana. End of story. Unless the people rise up.

[grahamhgreen]

103. NO - PUTIN WINS. In my view, it takes a real leap of faith to pretend that the perception will be

that this is the outcome Obama was looking for.

I believe only his most ardent supporters will arrive at that conclusion, for the rest of the world, they will see the Russians as being able to reign in an out of control ultra-capitalist system bent on world hegemony.

[trumad]

104. Wow!

Now that's a leap of faith.

[Waiting For Everyman]

130. The world will see

that Putin (finally) reigned in his own vassal, which he could have done long ago.

But Putin won't mind, he'll be happy to be seen as part of the solution now at last and rehabilitate his image a bit.

[Aerows]

106. It will be

and I will be the first to clap my hands, be relieved and say "disaster averted"!

[DevonRex]

108. Yes. Why do you think it's been all tough TALK?

But he has the reputation of being able to carry through if necessary. The tough talk will continue until this is resolved.

[totodeinhere]

111. How long will that take? He has been talking tough for two years and the killing

continues unabated. And if Assad gives up his chemical weapons there is no indication that the civil war itself will stop any time soon.

[DevonRex]

116. WTF are you talking about? WE are talking about CW use.

And stopping their use. This time we know who used them. If he can stop it, get control of them in such a short time, that would be a pretty quick turnaround.

It also puts Russia on notice to stop arming Assad with scary shit. And warns Putin about doing the same with Iran. Not a bad outcome for a month's work.

[totodeinhere]

109. I hope that they give up their chemical weapons. But I would not think of this in terms of winning

as long as innocent Syrians keep dying by conventional means. Remember that 100,000 have died by conventional means already. There is no indication that if he gives up his chemical weapons dying by other means will stop. So I will not be popping the champagne cork until the entire civil war is over.

[Iliyah]

115. Agreed

BUT as many DUers have already expressed "its not our problem".

[JaneyVee]

117. K and R

[cui bono]

119. This isn't a game where Obama either wins or loses.

He doesn't win no matter what. And through all of this - be it posturing or desire - he's lowered our reputation in the eyes of the international community, so we, as a country have probably already lost somewhat.

I really don't think anyone - aside for diehard, ardent supporters of him - will look at this and think Obama won anything.

[bvar22]

120. I don't care HOW, or WHO gets to claim a "WIN",

if this stops the US involvement in ANOTHER WAR in the Middle East,
I'm ALL for it.

In MY book, it will be the American Public and the vocal "No More WAR" movement that scores a WIN,
and the Sit Down an Shut Up Crowd can Sit Down and Shut Up NOW,
and forever.

[Hydra]

124. The sit down and and shut up crowd are already claiming victory for the President

We could have nuclear WWIII and they'll still be talking until there's no more internet.

I'm marking it on the scoreboard though- this was yet another fail from an admin we hoped for a much more Democratic set of goals.

[bvar22]

133. The bog lives in a fantasy World.

They can believe whatever they need to believe
and it won't change how The World sees this event.

The World will see Putin Winning the Stare Down contest with a US President who WANTED to bomb Syria, and was forced to backed down.

[neverforget]

145. I just started reading threads about an hour ago and I can't believe

what I've been reading. It's disgusting. It's all about how Obama looks and not that we won't kill people. That is, if this proposal should pan out. The spiking of the football (prematurely at that) is truly disgusting.

[Hydra]

146. The only good thing is how obvious it was

They were all on at the same time with the same message. I happened to be on at the time.

Coincidence is once, not 50x.

[GeorgeGist]

123. Not like Truman eh?

Now that guy knew how to win.

Hiroshima 150000 dead
Nagasaki. 75000 dead

[trumad]

127. Of course the anti American sentiment is that we always forget the dead Americans

in that war.

[Marr]

128. I sincerely hope it happens, too. And I hope any current war supporters would recognize that

a continued push for war on the part of the Administration would mean that it was never actually about chemical weapons.

[grahamhgreen]

132. Sorry, but Kerry went off script on this:

This is not Obama's plan.

The State Department later sought to clarify Kerry’s comment as a “rhetorical argument,” and one U.S. official called it a “major goof,” adding that America’s top diplomat “clearly went off script.”

“There is no one in the administration who is taking this Syria proposal seriously,” the official said.

Read more: http://pix11.com/2013/09/09/hillary-clinton-important-step-if-syria-surrenders-chemical-weapons/#ixzz2eQyXInhH

[SidDithers]

134. DU rec...

looking forward to the contortions too.

Sid

[Robb]

136. I was skeptical, and I rec'd you for old time's sake... but then

...they delayed the Senate vote, and I'm starting to think this has been "on script" from the beginning.

[AtomicKitten]

138. That would be the optimal outcome. nt

[reusrename]

139. Sure, just like Bush won over Iraq.

What's your point? Nobody here expects Obama to lose, do they? He has all the cards.

[ozone_man]

142. Not hardly.

The chemical weapons thing was just a way into war for Obama. This could forestall war for a bit. By war, I'm not talking about civil war, which the "rebels" seem to be losing. Why are we, along with Saudia Arabia and Qatar funding these groups, including Al Queda? That is a better question I think. It's much better to leave a secular government in power, otherwise it will look like Iraq does now. The cradle of civilization destroyed.

[99Forever]

143. We'll see.

Chickens, eggs not hatched.

[LibAsHell]

152. Americans win. Obama, not so much

He and Kerry went all in with these military strikes. When they realized they wouldn't get congressional approval, and in conjunction with the overwhelming opposition from the public, it became clear that any military strike would be unilateral and that would be political suicide. Thus, they MAGICALLY formed a non-military option, despite telling us that the military strikes were the last resort only days before.

Both look foolish, in my opinion. This new alternative will allow them to save somewhat of face, at least.

[Deep13]

154. Who cares if Obama "wins" whatever that might mean.

If Assad has a chemical stockpile and he surrenders it, the Syrian people win because slightly fewer of them will be killed.