So it looks like Obama's objective will likely be achieved

[Cali_Democrat]

What was his objective? To prevent Syria from using chemical weapons again.

If Syria does indeed put their stockpiles of chemical weapons under international supervision, his objective will be achieved.

A win for the Syrian people.

A win for the United States.

A win for the international community.

Obama and Kerry played this perfectly and without lifting a finger militarily against Syria, something which most of the country is opposed to.

Well done, guys.

Well. Fucking. Done.

[hrmjustin]

1. Yep. Well done Mr. President.

And John Kerry is a good man despite some of the nasty things said about him.

[rhett o rick]

156. Is there a link to this? nm

[hrmjustin]

159. I have no link. I was saying this in the hopes he will take the deal.

[rhett o rick]

163. Sorry, my question should have been directed at the OP. nm

[madokie]

207. Not all things posted here are from a link

many of us can and do think for ourselves.
Thats what the op is doing here in this thread, thinking for themselves and passing it on to the ones of us who can understand what they're saying.

[totodeinhere]

2. Obama told NBC News in an interview Monday that he remains skeptical that Syria will follow through

and turn over its stockpile, so he's taking a statement from Damascus, quote, "with a grain of salt initially."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/obama-syria-chemical-weapons_n_3896093.html

Personally, I think the Syrians will use this as a way to stall for more time and perhaps forestall the bombing indefinitely. But I don't think they will turn over their chemical stockpiles. If Assad did that he would lose his best bargaining chip. If I were you I would not right off this crisis just yet.

[tridim]

83. Which, taken in context, is a perfect way to keep the pressure on Putin and Assad.

I continue to be impressed with the President's brand of diplomacy. It's something new, and it's working!

[totodeinhere]

167. How do you know its working? Nothing has happened yet and as I ready said

even Obama himself is skeptical. And even if Assad does give up his chemical weapons that region will continue to be a mess, the Syrian civil war will continue and innocent civilians will continue to die and we won't be any closer to seeing peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

[snappyturtle]

201. Well,read this and tell me what you think...please. I

am very concerned:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023639756

[madokie]

208. You bet it is

each passing day that Assad doesn't use chemical weapons is proof of that.
Our president is one smart cookie and is playing the pukes, haters and racist assholes like the fools they are.
Yup we have them right here on this board too

[LittleBlue]

3. His objective is regime change

Which is why we were arming rebel groups before any chemical weapons were used

Nice try, though. I always enjoy a good laugh.

[Hekate]

6. Link?

[former9thward]

11. Link? There the thousands of them.

I'll just put one: http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-08-18/politics/35271355_1_syrian-government-assets-syrian-president-bashar-al-assad-syrian-people

[Cali_Democrat]

18. That is from 2011. This article written in 2013 says regime change is not the goal

http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/middle-east-north-africa/318989-white-house-were-not-after-regime-change-in-syria

[former9thward]

23. Why would they change their minds?

Has Assad improved in Obama's eyes? It is because that foreign policy has gone to the trash heap because the Syrian people told the West to shove it.

[lumpy]

126. Obama didn't indicate his goal was for a regime change in 2011. He said Assad should step aside

if he continues his brutal attacks against his people. Maybe Assad should step aside to let someone else do a better job of running the country.

[former9thward]

147. That is up to the Syrian people.

Not arrogant Western bullies.

[lumpy]

115. Obama statement from 2011 was not calling for a regime change, his statement was to the effect

that Assada attacks against his people should stop or it is time for him to step aside.

[former9thward]

146. No, he did not say that.

He said Assad must go. Period. Spin away.

[notadmblnd]

12. here's one

https://twitter.com/WHLive/statuses/377121102507433984

[FrodosPet]

80. Who are you going to believe

The White House or "The Hill"?

Besides, the tweet was from 1:27pm. That was HOURS ago.

[lumpy]

127. Overarching negotiated transition- is that supposed to be a bad thing ?

[notadmblnd]

140. No, someone asked for a link

I just provided it

[rhett o rick]

157. Link? Where is the link in the OP? nm

[Cali_Democrat]

7. White House: We're not seeking 'regime change' as goal in Syria

http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/middle-east-north-africa/318989-white-house-were-not-after-regime-change-in-syria

[former9thward]

13. Not seeking except when they are.

Assad Must Go http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-08-18/politics/35271355_1_syrian-government-assets-syrian-president-bashar-al-assad-syrian-people

[KittyWampus]

17. Assad goes and a general from his army steps in. NOT REGIME CHANGE. Why this is so hard

for supposedly semi-intelligent DU'ers to grasp is beyond me.

I've typed that ad naseum for days now., FFS.

[former9thward]

20. Assad isn't going anywhere.

Supposedly semi-intelligent DUers should be able to grasp that.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

104. Well, you just answered your own statement.

[lumpy]

132. That crystal ball is rolling again

[karynnj]

32. Through a POLITICAL SOLUTION

[former9thward]

48. Assad isn't going anywhere.

Politically or militarily. For better or worse he has defeated the West. The Syrian people have spoken and they are not interested in advice or threats from the West.

[arely staircase]

75. thank you

I literally laughed out loud at your post, not LOLd, but actually laughed. I can't tell if you are being serious, but either way its funny.

again, thanks

[sulphurdunn]

105. I think it won't be long

before you're laughing out of the other side of your face. If you don't think the Russians made a deal to throw the Syrian rebels to the wolves and to maintain the Assad regime you should do a bit more thinking and a lot less laughing.

[former9thward]

144. I'm serious.

I have spent time in almost all of the Arabic countries. Most DUers have not been in any for a minute. But they are keyboard generals. A joke.

[markpkessinger]

51. Indeed . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/obama-strategy-assad-republicans-syria

[lumpy]

130. Assad stepping down, could that be a bad thing? A replacement couldn't be any worse.

Your post is a rerun of the 2011 report.

[former9thward]

149. What has changed since 2011?

Except al Queda in now in charge of the rebels. Is that what you want?

[LittleBlue]

26. Right, just like he wasn't for insurance mandates

You do realize that's only his official position, right? The claim that he doesn't want regime change while arming revolutionaries is just bizarre.

[arely staircase]

46. and he's gonna cut social security!!!!111

[LittleBlue]

50. What in the world are you on about?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22899289

[arely staircase]

55. lol

[Maedhros]

195. BOG People: In all seriousness, this is why you catch so much heat.

Policy differences between yourselves and I aside, this is the kind of middle-school-mentality post that really earns the "hero worship" label that you all decry so vehemently.

This post does not address the issue, does not make a good-faith argument (or, really, any argument at all) and invites mockery.

[QC]

204. +1

It's like trying to have a serious discussion of music with a Belieber.

[rhett o rick]

158. Trust us Charlie Brown. We arent seeking a "regime change" this time. nm

[KittyWampus]

15. His goal is categorically NOT REGIME CHANGE> Sorry for all caps but it has been stated ad naseum

they do NOT want regime change.

DO. NOT. WANT.

[AtomicKitten]

38. Correct. It was John McCain that said

he would not vote for the Senate bill unless it had regime change in it.

http://thehill.com/video/senate/319919-mccain-threatens-to-pull-support-for-syrian-strike-if-it-doesnt-go-far-enough

[Divernan]

78. If you're going to keep using the phrase, spell it correctly - ad NAUSEAM

And I think we all agree with your statement in post 17 above that you've
"typed that ad naseum for days now., FFS."

Ad nauseam is a Latin term for something unpleasurable that has continued "to [the point of] nausea".

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

106. Why are you being disingenuous?

"Assad needs to go."
-President Barack Obama

As a DUer you are either not being honest to yourself or to everybody else.


Which is it?

[lumpy]

133. Assad does need to go. How that is accomplished is the question.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

134. Alright. At least that is honesty.

[lark]

200. You prefer Al-Qaeda to Assad?

Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah make up the majority of the rebels. You want them in charge? There are no good guys there.

[David__77]

33. That is correct.

It is plain from the actions taken, if not all of the words.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. Yeah...regime change...or give up the WMD's....it is pretty simple

don't understand why you don't get it...

[LittleBlue]

43. We are arming Syrian rebels

for what reason, then? To secure chemical weapons?

I cannot take the claim "he doesn't want regime change" seriously. It's not even a secret that we, Turkey and Arab Sunni states are backing his overthrow.

[VanillaRhapsody]

44. Doesn't seem like that is going to happen now does it?

and Russia supports Assad...so? In light of todays developments you seem to be a bit behind the curve.

[pasto76]

81. regime change huh?

good thing we didnt bring all of our stuff home from iraq, or hand it over the the iraqi government. oh wait yes we did.

so unwilling to admit you are wrong you just find new bullshit to spew

[leveymg]

102. I think people are counting their peace dividends long before they reach maturity.

He didn't have the votes in the House. Maybe not in the Senate. Simple as that.

You basically nailed it.

[pnwmom]

120. He made it very clear when this all began that regime change was NOT his goal.

That that would depend on a political solution, not a military solution.

Weren't you listening?

[LittleBlue]

135. Post 12- Susan Rice explicitly states regime change. nt

[pnwmom]

142. That's exactly what I said. Regime change would be the result of

an overarching policy achieved through a POLITICAL solution -- not a military strike.

[LittleBlue]

145. What does that have to do with what I wrote?

I doubt he cares how regime change comes, he clearly wants it, as I said.

That is his objective. His blunders have ensured that his real strategic goal of regime change (not elimination of chem weapons) is impaired. He has no casus belli to use direct intervention when he resolves the chem weapons issue, giving Putin what he wanted at the cost of weapons that have already been rendered strategically harmful.

[pnwmom]

148. You referred to post 12, which linked to a tweet. Did you even read it?

Rice: "Our overarching goal is to end the underlying conflict through a negotiated, political transition in which Assad leaves power" #Syria

[LittleBlue]

152. And that can only happen when the rebels start winning

or annihilate Assad's ability to make war.

Using the chem weapons excuse, Obama could have had 60 days to bomb Assad's forces to rubble. No one would have complained if we shelled Assad's forces instead of Assad's chem weapons. Which senator would complain? If you want to understand the destructive ability of a carrier group, go back and look at how fast Libya's regime crumbled after limited bombing.

Obama's ultimate leverage is off the table once he accepts this. It effectively settles the issue as neither house nor senate will want to revisit this right before an election. This is why Putin proposed it seemingly within minutes of Kerry's gaffe.

[pnwmom]

155. Obama didn't want regime change to occur right now, because there is no obvious

person to replace Assad. The group with the most power at the moment is connected to al queda, and no one really wants them to now get the upper hand.

[lumpy]

122. Straight from Obamas mouth, no doubt.

Lucky you to have an inside track into Obama's mind.

[LittleBlue]

137. Susan Rice, post 12. nt

[cynzke]

179. Well Then...

this would be part of the plan. Get those weapons away from Assad now and ALSO away from any faction that replaces Assad/His Regime in the future.

[bowens43]

4. Obama's objective was to recover from his dumb ass red line remark....

of course the true beleivers will try to spin this monumental fuck up into a win

[philosslayer]

37. You really can't accept success, can you

Obama is winning. His tactics have been spot on. Get over it.

[rhett o rick]

160. What are you basing that on? What success? I pity those that worship Pres Obama to

such an extent that they lose total contact with reality.

Let me know when we achieve "success".

[philosslayer]

164. In due time

The solution isn't totally implemented yet, but the die has been cast.

[rhett o rick]

166. So you havent seen "success" yet? And your statement about

"You really can't accept success, can you? Obama is winning. His tactics have been spot on. Get over it." is really bullshit because Obama isnt "winning" and hasnt shown "success".

Come back when Pres Obama HAS SHOWN SUCCESS.

[mythology]

171. As opposed to the unbiased "worship"

You say you feel pity for those who disagree with you, but you clearly aren't interested in a legitimate discussion or willing to consider that you might be wrong.

[rhett o rick]

177. Is it necessary to twist my words to get your point across? If you will notice

there are lots of threads here in DU that the Obama Group wont participate in. For example, discussion on the TPP. Seems to me that they are so strongly biased in favor of the President they are afraid to enter these discussions. How sad. And when Michael Hastings ran into a tree, the Group couldnt wait 10 sec. until they started posting that it wasnt Obama's fault. I would hope Democrats would be open-minded, but some are blinded by their idol worship.

[rury]

56. Boy bowens43, you just feel monumentally fucked-up

Over a win for President Obama.
You cannot accept the fact that the president is smart, can you?
No the question is WHY do you have that attitude toward him.
Hmmmmmm....

[MNBrewer]

63. And that spin is one of the symptoms of Type 2 ODS

that we see so often here in DU. In the BOG especially.

[Hekate]

9. No kidding. When I shut the boob-toob off the bobble-heads were still...

... calling everything under the Sun a debacle for the President. I'll check again in a few hours.

But as for DU, business as usual for so many. Nothing PBO does or says can possibly be right.

[Number23]

181. Hekate, the poster you're agreeing with is slamming the President's supporters

as s/he typically does. Only the president himself gets more criticism.

[Hekate]

190. Whoopsie

Sometimes not quick enough on the uptake

[Andy823]

52. How many types of ODS are there

And are the different stages treatable? I think I have see some here on DU that have gone over the edge completely, so I would think they are beyond treatment. Is there hope for those in the earlier stages of any kind of recovery?

[MNBrewer]

54. Type 1: Tea Party associated ODS

Type 2: e.g., the BOG.

[Andy823]

66. Interesting

So type 3 and 4 must be those who can never post anything but "negative" remarks about the president? The ones beyond help!

[MNBrewer]

73. I don't know anything about types 3 or 4.

Do you have any examples?

[sheshe2]

77. +1!

[bravenak]

153. +2

I agree. The prognosis is poor for type3 and4.

[L0oniX]

85. ^^^this^^^

[Pretzel_Warrior]

8. but what about all the fuel wasted steaming ships over toward Syria?

what of that???

[Hekate]

10. At the very least the ships should have been wind-powered to save on oil

The shame of it. (also :sarcasm

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

29. They were wind-powered when I was in the Navy.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

35. John Paul Jones, I presume?

[L0oniX]

88. Sir Francis Drake! Is that you?

[Whisp]

124. Obama should have pulled those ships himself!

Whats the matter with that lazy man anyway. He's our employee, dammit and we'll treat him like Walmart treats theirs!



lolz

[freshwest]

202. You win the thread!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. Then he should withdraw the request for an AUMF

[KittyWampus]

19. That would be the stick from the carrot and stick approach.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. Except if it loses then he loses his stick. Publically. LOUDLY!

If he withdraws the request then he can go back later and say, "See! He's cheating!" But if he goes through with a vote and then the vote is "Pound sand!" he won't have that leverage even if video later shows Assad drowning puppies in a wading pool filled with sarin.

[Cha]

16. I instinctively knew this was their objective..

in spite of the reign of terrorizing them on du.

thanks Cali

[totodeinhere]

168. No, having Assad give up his chemical weapons was the Russians' idea. Even Obama himself

has said so.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/09/09/in-media-blitz-obama-says-russian-proposal-could-avert-syria-strike/#ixzz2eSKrxiks

[grahamhgreen]

21. OMFG. This was not the used war salesman in chiefs plan:

Speaking at a news conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague, Kerry said that al-Assad “could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week.”

The U.S. secretary of state described that as an impossible scenario.

“He isn’t about to do it,” Kerry said. “And it can’t be done, obviously.”

The State Department later sought to clarify Kerry’s comment as a “rhetorical argument,” and one U.S. official called it a “major goof,” adding that America’s top diplomat “clearly went off script.”

“There is no one in the administration who is taking this Syria proposal seriously,” the official said.

Read more: http://pix11.com/2013/09/09/hillary-clinton-important-step-if-syria-surrenders-chemical-weapons/#ixzz2eQyXInhH

[arely staircase]

53. apparantly assad in more easily threatened by the US Navy than at first suspected

this is awesome!

[iamthebandfanman]

24. See, threats of strikes

DO work.


well, at least so far so good...



though I wont all the shocked if Syria 'hands them over' only to have another incident happen a couple of months later so the opposition can be blamed .. given how deceitful the syrian government has been (forced raped confessions on TV that were scripted and fake battles with fake victories to boost moral)

[mwrguy]

25. Obama was playing 3D chess while his detractors were playing checkers

AGAIN

You'd think that they would learn by now that nobody beats Obama.

[fascisthunter]

31. lol

holy shit... I can't if you are serious or not.

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. I tried to warn them...

not to underestimate Obama...he is one cagey Mofo!

[Tx4obama]

47. Yep

[frylock]

68. type 2..

a clear cut case.

[BumRushDaShow]

79. This board!

[Logical]

138. LOL, sure he was. OK! n-t

[JI7]

27. i really hope it works out

[onlyadream]

28. If that was indeed the master plan, I wish we somehow were in on it. NT

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. then it wouldn't have worked...

all the Obama Hatred on the left was a requirement for it to work....played y'all like an orchestra full of fiddles.

[mimi85]

95. And it definitely wasn't the first time.

You think people would've picked up on the game by now.

[VanillaRhapsody]

96. absolutely right...

They just cannot see the forest for the trees...namby pamby Democrats that want to play by the Marquis of Queensbury rules....they seem to think you can do this politics thing without getting any hands dirty.

[fascisthunter]

30. clumping ashes together to build a house

holy shit

[philosslayer]

34. A very small minority of us has been saying that for days.

And now those who were excoriating us for our naivete are silent.

I said "watch and learn". And we all have. Evidently some don't like the taste of crow.

Well done Mr. President. Bravo.

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. Yep...the tempo around here sure has changed dramatically since last night...

[appacom]

178. Well done, indeed! Can't understand why the naysayers never learn.

[arely staircase]

40. good job mr. president

he clearly told putin to get his dog on a leash or he was going to hit it no matter what.

well, played.

[madrchsod]

45. it`s promising but we will see if it works.

i guess we`ll have to wait for sure to get all those out from under the bus who were thrown there by the social media pundits.

[flamingdem]

49. K&R

[rug]

57. Brilliant planning.

Blinken said the proposal did not originate with the U.S. and was not part of an effort by the administration to provide Assad with an opportunity to escape an American strike.

“We literally just heard it about this as you did some hours ago,” he said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/syria-us-russia-chemical-weapons-96472.html#ixzz2eRRLJHCI

[Cali_Democrat]

59. Politico likes to spin against the Obama admin. It was Kerry's idea:

Syria, Russia seize on Kerry plan: give up arms
Offhand proposal sets off flurry

Moscow, Sept. 9: A seemingly offhand suggestion by secretary of state John Kerry that Syria could avert an American attack by relinquishing all of its chemical weapons received a widespread, almost immediate welcome from Syria and Russia.

The UN, the UK and even some Republicans viewed the proposal as a possible way to avoid a major international military showdown.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130910/jsp/foreign/story_17331886.jsp#.Ui5Yvz8edOI

[rug]

60. It was Kerry talking out loud.

While Blinken suggested the U.S. was taken by surprise by the Russian offer, the Russians appeared to have seized on comments by Secretary of State John Kerry earlier Monday during a news conference in London.

Asked if there is anything Assad could do to avert a military strike, Kerry said: “He could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week. Turn it over, all of it, without delay, and allow a full and total accounting for that. But he isn’t about to do it, and it can’t be done, obviously.”

However, White House officials said Kerry was simple reiterating a longstanding U.S. position and not trying to open a new round of negotiations to stave off a U.S. military response to the alleged use of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime on Aug. 21.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/syria-us-russia-chemical-weapons-96472.html#ixzz2eRSVD6II

Frankly, it looks like the Russians who are the moving force for peace here.

[Cali_Democrat]

61. Correct. Kerry spoke

And Russia listened. It was Kerry's plan that he spoke out loud.

Funny how that works, huh?

[rug]

64. Lol. First, Kerry was answering a question. Are you saying the question was planted?

Second, he replied with an off-hand remark.

Third, the WH had to issue an immediate clarification.

Fourth, it was the Russians who seized sanity from this clusterfuck by making it more than a diffident remark.

Perhaps I'm missing some secret, clever moves.

[Cali_Democrat]

67. It was Kerry who floated the idea...

A million links to politico will not change that fact.

Sorry.

[rug]

84. He was asked a question. He answered off the top of his head. Sorry, this is not von Clausewitz.

[lumpy]

136. Politico is not a friend

[rhett o rick]

162. LOL. Is Faux your friend? nm

[NCTraveler]

194. So it was Kerry, without the Presidents knowledge, who got this done? nt.

[karynnj]

90. Are you surprised there was such a question?

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Note that the UN, Russia and Syria were on board within 3 hours - Russia and the UN with some detailed plans. I suspect Kerry socialized the idea privately

[rug]

92. It was a rather vague question. Are you saying Kerry was prepped to provide the answer?

When asked by a reporter in London whether there was anything Assad's government could do or offer to stop a military strike, Kerry answered:

"Sure, he could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week - turn it over, all of it without delay and allow the full and total accounting (of it), but he isn't about to do it and it can't be done."

http://news.yahoo.com/tech/

[karynnj]

154. No absolutely not

I was suggesting that a question of what could Assad do that would cause the US to change its mind on attacking is a pretty obvious question that someone would in some form ask.

I don't think Kerry was prepped - other than by the major speeches Obama had him give, 5 Sunday shows, and the many hours of testimony, followed by the many meetings - and the individual side meetings. If he can handle 5 Sunday shows - at least two unfriendly - with apparent ease, I doubt he needs to be prepped.

The answer was actually obvious - the cause of our attack is chemical weapon use and the goal to remove some chemical weapons. What other answer works?

What I was surprised by was Kerry's uncharacteristic pessimism - making it seem that this had been floated before privately and unsuccessfully.

[Iliyah]

103. He did and last week he had the discussions

with the Iraselis. The administration knew about this last week.

Politico is a goper rag.

[rhett o rick]

161. Isnt telegraphindia a right wing conspiracy sight? nm

[Maedhros]

196. That depends upon whether it supports the narrative or counters it.

I'm guessing it's a trusted source this time?

[rhett o rick]

197. Good point. nm

[Thinkingabout]

58. It appears some of the posters raising hell about going to war are now crying and making

Other accusations, just goes to show maybe the right man is in the WH. It is reasons this outcome proves again the reason for the Nobel Pease award is going to the right man.

[Logical]

139. America is PISSED about a war and he finds another solution. Who gets credit for that? n-t

[Thinkingabout]

172. You kinda figured who found another solution so it would be probably Obama and his team.

[frylock]

62. pee wee herman diplomacy..

[Vattel]

94. rofl

[SaveOurDemocracy]

109. Heh...

[BumRushDaShow]

65. Basically. +1

Let's hope that Pootie holds Baby Asad's feet to the fire and then maybe O can tell Poot that he can "keep the Super Bowl ring".

[font size="1"](am wondering if any of this is related to hoc "side conversations" that happened between O & P)[/font]

[Marr]

69. What will you say if the push for a military strike continues?

I would like nothing more here than to see a strike averted and Syria's chemical weapons neutralized. It'd be a wonderful outcome, undeniably.

I remain convinced that this was never about Syria's chemical weapons-- not really. If Syria complies her and the push for war continues, I think that point would be pretty well proven.

[Ocelot]

70. Succeeded at making an ass of himself

The Democrats weren't behind his push for war (as he all thought we would lockstep) and he had to retreat. He and Kerry were caught in their lies and forced to realize the American people weren't all watching American Idol and not paying attention to their Syria bullshit.

Score one for the American people, hopefully. Now we'll see him retaliate by passing his top-secret Trans Pacific Partnership revenge on our economy before leaving office.

[Scootaloo]

71. We'll see if that's how it goes, won't we?

The administration has spent a hell of a lot of effort convincing the US public and media and congress about the absolute and immediate need to blow shit up in Syria. You don't do that unless you actually mean it. What's clear to me is that Putin caught the administration by surprise on this one.

I'll hold out praise for when the administration de-escalates its rhetoric. Judging from Susan Rice's recent comments, I might have a while to wait, yet.

[bravenak]

72. Yay!!

I knew he didn't want to go to war. I got hammered for saying it, but it's true.

[blackspade]

74. An unintended consiquence of a crappy policy

But a welcome one.

[Paper Roses]

76. One can only hope! n/t

[sheshe2]

82. Good news!!!!

Thanks Cali~

[DeSwiss]

86. Hurrah.

- Chemical Weapons Still In-Use By The USA: Depleted Uranium Deformities White Phosphorus Deformities

[another_liberal]

87. You need to give credit to President Putin, don't you think?

You know, in all fairness?

[totodeinhere]

170. Yes, it was Putin's idea. He first raised it with Obama during their brief meeting in

St. Petersburg.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/09/09/in-media-blitz-obama-says-russian-proposal-could-avert-syria-strike/#ixzz2eSKrxiks

[DCBob]

89. The real threat of an attack no doubt got the Syrian's attention.

and I think President Obama cant give that up until there is an actual deal and verification that the chemical weapons are turned over.

[Cha]

165. That's what I was wondering last week.. what's assad

thinking about all these threats of an attack? Hoping that it would make a difference in future would be attacks.

"The real threat of an attack no doubt got the Syrian's attention.

and I think President Obama cant give that up until there is an actual deal and verification that the chemical weapons are turned over."

Exactly, DCBob

[NoOneMan]

91. Chemical Weapons are Naughty but Everyone Gets a Freebie!!!

That's right folks, for a limited time, blast away your undesirables. But just know, our Secretary of State will say mean things about you until you get rid of the rest of your stash! Act now for your "get out of war for crossing the Red Line card".

[SylviaD]

93. I can't tell if you're serious or not. If serious, you are delusional. n/t

[BlancheSplanchnik]

97. I wonder what the NEXT wave of anti-Obama DU flak will be.

I haven't gotten into discussions on this one because I know it's way too behind the scenes and complex for me to have any idea. I know I don't know; I'm not gonna pontificate over some opinion I cook up based on belligerent assumptions. All I felt I could offer, if I were to say something, were hopes for a good outcome.

Not a popular stance on DU.


But it did always seem out of character that President Obama would suddenly turn into a bewsh-style idiot.



The jumping to negative conclusions before all the info is known seems familiar here over the last 6 years. And the hate-ons for anyone who wasn't brandishing torches and pitchforks against him--not a friendly place to admit to not knowing but hoping and having positive expectations based on PBO's track record.

Looking at past behavior as a predictor of future behavior. Gee, what a concept.

[lumpy]

141. The blab is disturbing. Indeed

[Javaman]

98. I will wait until it actually happens before I break out the champaign. nt

[Caretha]

99. According to you

then, both President Obama & Senator Kerry deserve an Oscar for best actors. Personally I do not believe in fairy tales, such as "7 dimensional chess". I also do not believe either Obama nor Kerry were bluffing. In fact I believe they were/are deadly serious about lobbing cruise missiles at 50 targets in Syria.

But here's where the glitch came in with this plan.....NATO (our allies, like Great Britain), the UN, Congress and a huge majority of American citizens were saying loud & clear ...HELL NO!

The deal is nobody thinks this is a good idea. To much could go wrong and a war in the Middle East involving everyone from Turkey - Israel & Iran, Egypt, ....then dragging Russia and China in would be a catastrophe on the scope we really can't fathom.

Russia is aware of that, China is aware of that, and so are a lot of other people. Russia doesn't want it, nor do a whole lot of other people including the citizens of Syria. Somehow this would just not be very good for a whole bunch of people's health.

Russian/Putin has provided an out. To be honest if it works, and I will be sincerely grateful if it does, I'll be down on my knees thanking the Goddess for missing this bullet.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

100. That wasn't all. It was to eliminate them.

[Marr]

101. This thread is sad.

I'll be the first to say a Syrian disarmament and a stand down by the US would be a wonderful outcome here, however it was arrived at.

But that hasn't happened. Right now it exists in the same place as jet boots and Sasquatch; ie, Imagination Land. I think some people are so desperate for a reason to cheer, they're getting well ahead of themselves. If it doesn't play out the way they hope, then cheering today is going to look pretty silly and gullible tomorrow.

[Tx4obama]

107. Well I don't know. Look at all the folks that have been cheering about the...

... the numbers in regards to how many congresscritters were planning on voting no on the congressional resolution on Syria.

There had NOT even been a vote taken and tons of folks were cheering because that it looked like it wouldn't pass and that Obama would be a lame duck.

I didn't see anyone telling those folks that their threads were 'sad'.

Has there ever been a time when folks on one side of an issue or the have not cheered?

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there

[Marr]

112. I don't think they were cheering because Obama would be a lame duck.

They were cheering because they thought it might prevent an act of war.

[noiretextatique]

180. yep

this shit is so crazy. those of us who oppose war are now just out to screw Obama

[BlueEye]

108. This could be the finest diplomatic achievement since Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis

Of course I won't count the chickens before they hatch, especially with the harsh rhetoric that continues to come from the Administration. However this makes sense and could very well be the play President Obama had up his sleeve the whole time.

How happy would I be to see both an averted war and a victory for the Prez! To quote the film Apollo 13:

"This could be the worst disaster NASA's ever experienced."

"With all due respect sir, I believe this is gonna be our finest hour."

Just replace "NASA" with "The Obama Administration" and there you have it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. It is not at all obvious that we didn't arrive at this point by accident.

I give credit to this extent; they have the wits to recognize that there's no reason to continue careening around the block when you realize you're in the parking lot of the hotel which you were hoping to reach.

[rpannier]

111. I'm hoping this works out for the best

But your analysis is incredibly weak and lacks one fact to support it.
The whole thing seems to be playing out where the Russians are seizing the upper hand by challenging the US, the EU and the Arab League by saying it's a possibility.
But, I'm sure if I look hard enough I'll find your post praising Dumbya for getting Libya to get rid of their chemical weapons. Because that was the spin from Republicans and the right when that happened

[rury]

117. "Russia seizing the upper hand..." WTF rpannier??

You just refuse to give President Obama credit for anything....you are laughable!!


Obama stared and Putin/Assad blinked, big time!!
Bravo, Mr. President!!

[caseymoz]

113. Played? You've got to be kidding.

He happened to know that Putin would come out with a proposal giving Obama the political cover he needed to back down from what proved to be a politically untenable position.

Yes, Obama could always depend on his old friend Vladimir. Why just ask Snowden about that.

[blkmusclmachine]

114. Cali is on my full block list. So why am I seeing this BS?

[LostOne4Ever]

116. I support anything

That results in a peaceful resolution to this situation.

If this was Obama and Kerry's plan all along then I give the administration nothing but kudos. Well played as always President Obama, great job!

This is what happens when we have a SMART president

[citizen blues]

118. People often underestimate the President

One thing that I have noticed is that he's not a short-timer. He plays a long game. And he holds his cards very, very close to his chest. So I was wondering what was going to happen here.

Pretty brilliant to ask congress for approval. It immediately shut down all the right wing clap-trap about the President acting unilaterally and violating the constitution. It also bought him the time to work on finding another solution, since he was also probably counting on them doing exactly nothing, which they did by going on another fucking vacation.

[morningfog]

119. Well, we aren't out of the woods yet.

And it was not played perfectly at all. Not by a long shot.

[OldRedneck]

121. Not so fast.

As far as I know, Syria did not sign the anti-chemical weapons treaty, thus, they are not subject to the inspection regime associated with that treaty.

For this reason, we now must set up an inspection process . . . and you can bet neither the Russians nor the Syrians will agree to anything we propose.

This show is nowhere near over and we shouldn't break out the champagne just yet.

[lumpy]

143. That assad will sign the anti chemical treaty is part of the deal

[TroglodyteScholar]

123. Wow, so Syria agreed to turn over the chems?

I'd hate to think anyone might be doing their victory dance prematurely....

[winter is coming]

125. If that had been Obama's objective, it would have made far more sense to achieve

it by bribing the Russians to pressure Syria. Setting up a situation where Parliament tells the Prime Minister to get stuffed and Obama's on the verge of losing a vote in the House to authorize military force doesn't make him look like master of diplomacy; it makes him look like a lucky bumbler.

[JoePhilly]

128. And its driving the Combustible Hair Club crazy!

Obama was supposed to start WWWIII.

[HooptieWagon]

129. No, his objective is to hand Syria over to al Qaeda.

If he was worried about chemical weapons, he would be trying to prevent rebels from using them.

[RedCappedBandit]

131. I'm betting a lot of you would be saying "Well. Fucking. Done" whatever happened.

[Skip Intro]

150. Oh my God.

[GoneFishin]

151. What could have happened for which you would NOT say "well done"?

Absolutely nothing. The bar just moves as needed to make sure he clears it every time.

The people of the U.S. rejected his arguments for bombing the crap out of Syria. And that's a good thing.

[FedUpWithIt All]

169. What a difference a day makes.

The tone around here sure did change in the last 24 hours.

[Kablooie]

173. And this all came out just in time for his speech on Tuesday.

Hmmm. Maybe it WAS all planned.

[politicasista]

174. Kick n/t

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

[TBF]

175. Mission isn't accomplished until that pipeline is in the ground -

don't get ahead of yourself.

[Javaman]

176. Until it actually happens I wouldn't be breaking out the champaign just yet.

so far it's just been notes back and forth.

nothing formal has been announce, nothing signed and certainly no chems destroyed.

color my cautious.

[Number23]

182. K&R for the folks that have actually become INCONTINENT at the mere thought of giving

this president ANY kudos, any recognition or any praise. I was in favor of Syrian intervention if necessary, but this is a far better solution if we can get it.

And some of them are all in this thread giving Putin, Merlin, Bo Jackson, even John Kerry's dog this victory -- ANYONE but the Democrats leading this administration. But yeah, this is just disappointment and "concern." Yeah. Okay

[totodeinhere]

185. Lets wait to see how this plays out before giving out either credit or blame.

So far all we have is words. If the Syrians actually do give up their chemical weapons I will be the first to cheer. But if this is merely a stalling tactic as Hillary Clinton has suggested then we could be right back where we started. The Syrian government has "agreed" on several occasions to enter peace talks with the rebels but it hasn't ever actually happened. How do we know that they will give up their chemical weapons given their track record? But I do agree that Obama and Kerry are right to agree to the Russian proposal and I hope it works out.

[Number23]

186. What you so tellingly call the "Russian proposal" is referred to as Obama/Putin negotiations

in other circles. But I'm sure that's just a typo on your part.

Edit: But it's occurred to me that you may be calling it the Russian proposal because of their offer to take Syria's chemical weapons so never mind.

[totodeinhere]

187. No, I was using the language used by most news outlets.

Syria accepts Russian proposal on weapons; France to bring resolution to Security Council

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/france-to-author-security-council-resolution-to-require-syria-to-give-up-chemical-weapons/2013/09/10/0d51a06c-19ff-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html

Syria crisis: Obama welcomes Russia's chemical weapons proposal

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/us-russian-proposal-syria-chemical-weapons

Obama on Russia’s Syria chemical weapons proposal: 'Take it with a grain of salt'

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/09/20399319-obama-on-russias-syria-chemical-weapons-proposal-take-it-with-a-grain-of-salt?lite

Obama says Russian Syria proposal could be a breakthrough

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/09/09/russia-syria/2785703/

Syria Welcomes Russian Proposal To Put Chemical Weapons

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/syria-russia-proposal-chemical-weapons_n_3894302.html

Edit - Thanks for the correction. This just goes to show that people should not be so quick to jump to negative conclusions about what others say. Myself, unless I have evidence to the contrary I always try to give other people's comments the benefit of the doubt.

[BlueStreak]

183. Nonsense. Do you have any idea how easy it is to restart the chem program?

All they have to do is lay low for a couple of months and wait for the next Miley Cyrus story to hit and then they are free to start up the labs again.

But I do agree with you on one thing. He did accomplish his main objective, which was to get people to stop talking about the Security Industrial Complex.

[BrainDrain]

184. Are you SERIOUS???!!!!

Dude,

Whatever you are smokin....I want some.

How in the name of tiny green apples do you in ANY way see this as a victory? He was going to bomb Syria until his own congress and the rest of the dam world let him know how BAD an idea it was. Then it was an off-hand remark by a Secretary of State whom I thought I knew, that got picked up on by the Russians' of all people, and suddenly everyone was able to save face. Obama LEAST of all, but still a fig leaf is better than no leaf.

Well. Fucking. Done. MY ASS! Our president looks like an idiot, our SOS looks like an idiot, and Putin is the ONLY one who looks like he actually knows how the game is played.

Stop trying to make this sound like Obama is some kind of freakin Jedi when he isn't.

[orenbus]

188. A U.S. official called Secretary of State John Kerry's remarks in Britain on Monday a "major goof,"

(CNN) -- A U.S. official called Secretary of State John Kerry's remarks in Britain on Monday a "major goof," saying Kerry "clearly went off script here." The official was referring to Kerry's assertion that President Bashar al-Assad "could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons" to avoid potential U.S. military action. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has since proposed that Syria turn over its chemical weapons to the control of the international community, a proposal that Syria's foreign minister says he welcomes. "There is no one in the administration who is taking this Syria proposal seriously," the official said.

http://www.kvia.com/news/elections/URGENT-Syria-Kerry-Goof/-/390782/21849848/-/2vv941/-/index.html

[Maedhros]

198. It would be very good fortune to have a "major goof" actually lead to a positive outcome, though.

Throughout these discussions of intervention in Syria there was consensus among the pro-war faction that diplomacy could not work because Russia would veto any UN resolution. I find it interesting that, assuming it happens, a diplomatic solution initiated by Russia worked in the end.

[Orsino]

189. One stated objective, anyway.

That Assad expressed a willingness to cooperate, and did it so quickly, certainly makes the president and Kerry look successful.

For a little while longer, at least, we won't be responsible for the explosions in that land.

[Scurrilous]

191. K & R

[CakeGrrl]

192. BIG K/R

[Tumbulu]

193. Biggest deal thous is that he SET THE PRECEDENT for going to Congress

BEFORE acting militarily. This is the very biggest triumph imo.

Well done!!!!!

[lark]

199. Obama got very lucky.

Wonder if he appreciates it? Bet AIPAC and MIC are mad, so wonder what their retribution will be? Obama didn't stick to the script.

[stevenleser]

203. K&R nt

[Cali_Democrat]

205. Goal achieved?!?!?

Looks like that's the case!

[madokie]

206. My last boss was like the puke congress critters

the haters and racist assholes. After we figured that out we'd make sure to suggest the most asinine way to get a job done then we'd know it wouldn't be done that way. We'd win by not having to go at the job like a fool and the boss would win by getting the job done the most efficient way which put money in his pocket, all in spite of his own shortcomings and prejudices. He never figured it out same as I doubt the pukes in congress will either. Not to mention the haters and racist assholes who live amongst us